[00:27] joepie91: What's lacking, documentation-wise, to python? [00:28] ersi: I wrote an article about this, but someone else did it better: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-February/641750.html [00:28] (my original article can be found at http://joepie91.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/the-python-documentation-is-bad-and-you-should-feel-bad/) [00:30] Oh yeah, I remember now. I've read that. [00:32] for a long time, the PHP documentation specifically recommended using insecure, dangerous programming practices. [00:33] @abadidea made http://phpmanualmasterpieces.tumblr.com to demonstrate [00:34] Heh, don't get me started on PHP docs [00:40] joepie91: in my experience, python docs are not that bad at all [00:40] Hopeless to even walk into that trap [00:40] irrelevant [00:40] I am experiencing this issue, so are many many others that I have talked to [00:40] don't want to fix it, fine, but don't tell me to go use Python [00:41] (same for any other language) [00:41] because quite often, those trying to advocate $language to me, deny that the problems with the docs (or other arbitrary $thing) exist just because _they_ are not having issues with it [00:41] I find the navigation and organization of the Python docs to be sub-optimal [00:41] entirely forgetting that the initial reason for the conversation was them trying to get _me_ to use it [00:41] so I can conclude with one simple sentence: [00:41] "fix it or stfu" [00:42] :P [00:42] (re: those that do the above-described) [00:42] I can't understand how you've gotten used to PHP's docs [00:42] I don't think I've seen you describe the issue other than "I feel the docs and the community both suck" [00:42] balrog: see the two references above [00:42] I just paraphrased those two references there [00:42] combined, they provide an excellent in-depth description of the problem [00:43] and interestingly, those that claim there is not enough information in there, are usually the people denying that the problem exists [00:43] whereas those that experience the same problems, read them and are like "yes! I have that too!" [00:43] make of that what you will.. [00:43] and I'm honestly not terribly interested in further discussion whether the python docs do or do not suck [00:44] they suck for reasons I have already explained... if you disagree, that's fine [00:44] but that does not remove the issue for me [00:44] hence I will not be replacing PHP with $language [00:50] http://blog.briancurtin.com/posts/why-i-dont-feel-so-bad.html — heh. to be honest, I've RARELY got help from general language-type freenode channels [00:50] be they #drupal, #wordpress, or whatever [00:50] #python, etc [00:50] haven't got banned, but usually you get ignored [01:17] I can tell you which language has the best core documentation but I doubt anyone would believe it [01:17] unless they have used it [01:18] I'd believe it...wait, it's not Java is it [01:18] no [01:19] python? [01:23] You see I read through joepie91's post as well as the mailing list thread and the python documentation is flawed, they never asked themselves a key question which professional technical writers obsess over. "Who is the intended audience for this work?" That is a complex problem because you have to know their level of knowledge while overcoming your innate bias known as "The curse of knowledge" [01:23] As pointed out in the email there is a difference between the docs and spec for building the language and the reference material for using the language [01:24] few people build a language, many more use a language [01:24] Bad docs make assumptions that are usually wrong to the wider audience [01:27] and considering anything you distribute on the internet is out there for everyone. Let me repeat the entire world is now the possible audience and that has to be taken into consideration. Knowledge wants to be free and shared otherwise the open source movement wouldn't be so big [01:28] This is why translations of documentation are made because people understand that not everyone speaks the same language. [01:28] so we have screen savers rehearsals [03:45] lmao the strcmp post on there [04:06] DFJustin: ? [04:08] http://phpmanualmasterpieces.tumblr.com/post/44634822304/i-am-so-comically-angry-right-now [04:09] I guess it's old hat if you code php but I don't and lolll at the security flaw it links to [04:10] oh shit [04:10] hahahahaha [04:10] what the everliving fuck [04:11] just for everyone counting at home [04:11] there are over 58k video files for g4tv.com now that i got the full list [04:12] not including the hd videos i'm adding [04:13] DFJustin: i just this exact template on a website years ago. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Nkw03ORU1Os/UTLeZryCg1I/AAAAAAAAAFU/rJNEaG_J7VY/s1600/otp_issue.png [04:32] http://askubuntu.com/questions/299772/how-to-clean-the-cool-sneaker [04:32] how to clean the cool sneaker [04:50] looks like in early 2001 techtv did web cast news [04:53] wow this is pretty mesmerizing http://crawl-monitor.us.archive.org/crawling/domain/liveupdates.html [04:55] so many posterous placeholders :/ [05:11] so its starting to look i need another hard drive [05:16] So i got koogle keynote [05:17] *Tim Koogle [05:17] first ceo and president of yahoo [05:18] after him i think it when to hell [05:30] i have steve jobs japan keynote [05:53] i got clips of leo laporte on Regest and kelly [06:22] got to love this: http://origin.g4tv.com/xml/BroadbandPlayerService.asmx/GetVideoClipsById?videoKeys=45383 [06:22] FUCKYOUTOOFUCKER [06:22] thats the file name but doesn't exist [06:35] hahaha [06:36] DO NOT USE - Alison Brie's Behind the Scenes Tour Of AOTS [06:37] luckly i got the full episode of that one [06:44] have you guys ever run into a situation where the wget process just says "Killed" and it stops? [06:45] strange [07:13] low memory? [07:35] instence_: sounds like the OOM killer, and yes [07:36] check the output of 'dmesg | less' [07:55] so does anyone here want to help me buy a hard drive? [08:01] 4TB Hitachi Touro if you don't need a warranty, 5K4000 (same thing) if you do [08:01] ok [08:02] http://www.amazon.com/HGST-Touro-External-Drive-0S03503/dp/B008JQNXLA/ sometimes drops to $170-$175, you can set up a price watch [08:02] I use http://camelcamelcamel.com/ [08:03] the Touro has no screws and requires some serious prying to open, makes my hand very sore every time [08:04] the reviews say it failes [08:04] like bad i/o errors [08:05] I've had one DOA 5K4000 out of 7 received, no problems of any sort with the other 6 [08:05] I write all over it and check the checksums [08:06] earliest is from Dec 2011 [08:07] just looking at and found out it needs dc plug [08:07] i was hoping a usb power one [08:08] heh, sorry, I assumed you were shopping for an internal drive which is why I referred to the Touro as a no-warranty drive requiring disassembly [08:08] I don't think the big drives will not be usb-powered [08:09] unless you want 1.5TB [08:09] i have a 2tb wd drive [08:29] another scan magazine of pc novice: https://archive.org/details/pc-novice-1995-07 [08:41] awsome 10mb gif about xbox one: https://i.minus.com/iBzvb2JSpQNRM.gif [10:03] http://archive.org/details/processor-newspaper-v26i30 [10:03] starting to upload processor newspaper [11:26] how many issues do you have godane? [13:32] have you guys ever run into a situation where the wget process just says "Killed" and it stops? [13:32] yup, memory issue [13:32] I've noticed that wget-warc can use a ridiculous amount of RAM [13:32] on large sites [14:35] godane, awesome @ processor. i get that thing weekly at work. good mag [18:07] i don't know how many but its from like june/july of 2004 on [18:22] also i'm removing the + in filenames since archvie.org doesn't like [18:23] when you try to download a file inless it http you will get a 404 page [19:28] so looks like i can add stuff to archiveteam when using ftp [19:28] i just got to the select shareware archives then change the mediatype and collection in it to web and archiveteam [19:29] uploaded: https://archive.org/details/www.g4tv.com-broadbandplayerservice-getvideoclipsbyid-20130525 [19:30] also weird that cdx file is unknow [19:30] but cdx.gz is know as a cdx index file [19:34] SketchCow: is there anyway you can give me acesss to change the mediatype and collections of my items already uploaded? [19:35] i ask cause anything already in texts can't be changed [19:35] also it will be a less stuff for you to move when time comes to sort my stuff [22:00] omg so durnk [22:00] this is epcin [22:00] Warning, drunk IRCing detected. [22:01] :)() [22:01] waith [22:01] that looks like normal IRCCCCCCCCC [22:01] fack. [22:25] i know someone that added pam_alcootest to the session chain of the screensaver [22:25] you are drunk ==> no login for you [22:59] i had to reboot [23:00] stupid vlc was in task bar and i couldn't make it quit [23:03] not even through task manager? [23:03] (as in the processes tab) [23:04] i tryed killing it in htop [23:04] it didn't work [23:09] kill -9 always works unless the system is locked up, or is listed as a zombie process [23:15] it can take some time [23:16] if the system is really loaded [23:20] kill -9 can't kill something in uninterruptable sleep [23:23] it can't, but something in uninterruptable sleep that you didn't plan is essentially a locked up system [23:24] not really [23:25] there are still hope that the kernel will timeout the io