| Time |
Nickname |
Message |
|
05:13
🔗
|
yipdw |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIesCd4I4hU might be the best thing I've watched today |
|
07:20
🔗
|
midas |
hahahha |
|
09:18
🔗
|
SketchCow |
Someone came along and dumped it on me, I've forgotten who. |
|
13:01
🔗
|
joepie91 |
From march 1, it will be legal in the Netherlands for 'immigrant police' and marshal service to break into a house if there is a suspicion that it houses an 'illegal immigrant'; it will also be legal for them to search the house, including closed/locked areas, including media such as mobile phones, and all of this without permission of the resident and - as far as I can tell - without court order. |
|
13:06
🔗
|
midas |
awesome, im so glad i live in a openminded country. |
|
13:06
🔗
|
midas |
oh, forgot to turn off my sarcasm plugin. |
|
13:06
🔗
|
joepie91 |
midas: I concur |
|
13:06
🔗
|
joepie91 |
but hey |
|
13:06
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
source of that? im not illegal immigrant but |
|
13:07
🔗
|
joepie91 |
weed is still legal (except it isn't), and hookers are still legal too (but not quite) |
|
13:07
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Leo_TCK: ref https://www.piratenpartij.nl/blog/cath/razzias-woningen-nederland-vanaf-1-maart-legaal |
|
13:07
🔗
|
joepie91 |
which links original govt source as well |
|
13:07
🔗
|
midas |
"they pay taxes" it doesnt make it legal but hey, it looks more legal! |
|
13:09
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
but isnt there a need to first know about illegal immigrant, that's what my partner told me, as in that they first need to know that illegal immigrant is hidng in the area |
|
13:09
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
not they they hae suspicion about a random place out of nowhere and that the commisioner would have to give the permission too |
|
13:09
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i mean it cant be just a case of |
|
13:10
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
"I believe there might be illegal immigrant over there |
|
13:10
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
please police, take a look |
|
13:10
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
they look danergous!" |
|
13:10
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i hope it's not just that |
|
13:12
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i mean they would have to search for someone specific with a name right? not just take into account any report from random people |
|
13:12
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i hope |
|
13:13
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
because if thats the case then anyone can report anyone and shit happens |
|
13:13
🔗
|
midas |
most likely it will be like that Leo_TCK |
|
13:14
🔗
|
Schbirid |
of course they will use social and racial profiling to weight their decisions |
|
13:15
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
but don't they need to name someone? it can't be just a story of "I believe that house has immigrants go look" |
|
13:15
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
right? |
|
13:16
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
it can't be this vague there must be something more, some substancial evidence |
|
13:17
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
if not then that's truly fucked up and im getting outta here finally in that case |
|
13:17
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
because anyone who doesn't like me in town could just say "there's english speaking guy living there who is weird" etc |
|
13:18
🔗
|
midas |
learn dutch :p |
|
13:18
🔗
|
midas |
it's a easy language |
|
13:18
🔗
|
midas |
Leo_TCK: where in .nl do you live anyway? |
|
13:19
🔗
|
* |
midas in het gooi. |
|
13:20
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
that's what you think, i already speak more languages and english is not my native one |
|
13:20
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i can't do the dutch prononciation just like you dutch guys can't do mine |
|
13:20
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
rather than speak language badly i refuse to speak it at all |
|
13:21
🔗
|
midas |
:P |
|
13:21
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
because it would be obvious anyway and would help nothing they would know im not from nl |
|
13:22
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
and some words i pronounce the same which would have different meaning |
|
13:22
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
leading to misunderstandings |
|
13:22
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
already had that happen, that's why i can't bother |
|
13:22
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
so it's not just ":P" |
|
13:22
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
it's much deeper |
|
13:23
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i recognize words and phrases that i picked up, but i'm not ever speaking it again, it depends on ow your "tongue" is formed and how you articulate certain sounds/letters |
|
13:23
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
and my native language way is way different |
|
13:23
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
but english is simple enough to not have that difficulty for me |
|
13:24
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
besides i was exposed to english since early age |
|
13:25
🔗
|
joepie91 |
<Leo_TCK>but isnt there a need to first know about illegal immigrant, that's what my partner told me, as in that they first need to know that illegal immigrant is hidng in the area |
|
13:25
🔗
|
joepie91 |
a suspicion is sufficient |
|
13:25
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
a suspicion that a certain immigrant s there, but not a random one right? |
|
13:25
🔗
|
joepie91 |
fyi, the definition of "illegal immigrant" is NOT "somebody from another country who hasn't gained Dutch citizenship" |
|
13:25
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i mean they have to already be searching for one |
|
13:26
🔗
|
joepie91 |
no |
|
13:26
🔗
|
joepie91 |
as far as I am aware, an identity-less suspicion is sufficient |
|
13:26
🔗
|
joepie91 |
but this comes down to the definition of an illegal immigrant |
|
13:26
🔗
|
joepie91 |
an old trick of Dutch police, to deal with protesters who refuse to carry an ID and refuse to identify themselves, is to class them as "origins unknown" |
|
13:26
🔗
|
joepie91 |
thus illegal immigrants |
|
13:26
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
well i am not illegal immigrant i am registered with the municipality |
|
13:27
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Leo_TCK: you are missing the point |
|
13:27
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
hmm |
|
13:27
🔗
|
joepie91 |
it's not about whether you are registered |
|
13:27
🔗
|
joepie91 |
it's about whether you identify yourself as a person with Dutch citizenship |
|
13:27
🔗
|
joepie91 |
or temporary stay |
|
13:27
🔗
|
joepie91 |
if you refuse to identify yourself and they want to screw you over, and cannot find out who you are |
|
13:27
🔗
|
joepie91 |
they can legally dump you into a deportation thing |
|
13:28
🔗
|
joepie91 |
the immigrant policy in NL is absolutely insane |
|
13:28
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i don't identify as neither, but i have my id card with me and am registered |
|
13:28
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
so they can just look it up in the lit that i am registered living here |
|
13:28
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
so what's the problem? |
|
13:28
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i usually take my id card everywhere |
|
13:29
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i am on "indifinite" stay, not even temproary i guess |
|
13:29
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
that was lifted after few months |
|
13:29
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Leo_TCK: sure, for you personally there might not be a problem |
|
13:29
🔗
|
joepie91 |
until they 'suspect' that an immigrant lives in your house ofc |
|
13:29
🔗
|
joepie91 |
but to be honest, think about the whole "carrying an ID card" thing |
|
13:30
🔗
|
joepie91 |
it is an absolutely insane concept to begin with |
|
13:30
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
yes but at least my id car doesnt have the tracking chip you guys have |
|
13:30
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
or fingerprints |
|
13:30
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
which were abolished though |
|
13:30
🔗
|
joepie91 |
"but at least X" |
|
13:31
🔗
|
joepie91 |
"well I might be raped, but at least I'm not anally penetrated" |
|
13:31
🔗
|
joepie91 |
I mean, really |
|
13:31
🔗
|
joepie91 |
I'd say that what is already going on and relevant to you, is bad enough |
|
13:31
🔗
|
joepie91 |
yes, there are always people who have it worse |
|
13:32
🔗
|
joepie91 |
doesn't take away that current policies - including those you are subject to - are abusive, ridiculous, and completely insane |
|
13:32
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
and also 50 euro for id card which is required anyway and none gives you subsidy for that at leasts thats how its now apparently, i mean when my partner as getting new stuff |
|
13:32
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
yes i know they are abusive |
|
13:32
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
and even paying for that shit so much sounds really overblown |
|
13:32
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
it shouldnt be paid at all |
|
13:33
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
to be paid* |
|
13:33
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
if its required |
|
13:33
🔗
|
joepie91 |
it shouldn't even be required at all |
|
13:33
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
yes but this is even double the abuse |
|
13:33
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
its completely insane |
|
13:34
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i've heard that after the world war the id cards were abolished in nl due to the abuse of them during the war and what nazi used them as |
|
13:34
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
world war 2* |
|
13:34
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
but then it again emerged |
|
13:35
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Leo_TCK: correct |
|
13:35
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
and then it became with tracking shit |
|
13:35
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
and later fingerprints, now thankfuly abolished |
|
13:35
🔗
|
joepie91 |
"abolished" |
|
13:35
🔗
|
joepie91 |
I'm sure no copy of that database exists anywhere |
|
13:35
🔗
|
joepie91 |
</sarcasm> |
|
13:35
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i mean for new id cards |
|
13:35
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
the requirement |
|
13:35
🔗
|
joepie91 |
hardly a consolation |
|
13:36
🔗
|
joepie91 |
most people already have their fingerprints registered by now |
|
13:36
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
yes but it's at least a step "somewhere", but some don't |
|
13:36
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
and some refused to give |
|
13:36
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
and remain without id card for the temp being |
|
13:37
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
and do payments through family/whoever wants to help them |
|
13:38
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
but now at least they can request new ones without having to take the fingerprint |
|
13:38
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
though the tracking shit is still there |
|
13:38
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Leo_TCK: as is the attitude/system that led to this fingerprint crap in the first place |
|
13:38
🔗
|
joepie91 |
it's a hollow victory |
|
13:39
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i guess it is then |
|
13:39
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
but still i am glad its not there that requirement anymore |
|
13:40
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
im realy glad, at least practically |
|
13:40
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
because as you can guess my partner refused to give fingerprints |
|
13:42
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
in fact im sure you two would get along very well based on what i'm hearing from you |
|
13:42
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
but this immigrant shit is unsettling me |
|
13:42
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
really to the bone |
|
13:42
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
because what's the next step then? |
|
13:43
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
in no way we're allowing them to search through our stuff and potentially throwing out on the street because they'd find our living conditions are "unmaintainable" or whatever they'd find and find conventient excuses |
|
13:43
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
based on some vague suspicion some idiot threw out |
|
13:44
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
if they come in in force, they're dead meat |
|
13:44
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i mean it |
|
13:44
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
there's only so much one can take |
|
13:46
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
oh im sure by now im terrorist for saying that |
|
13:47
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Leo_TCK, sidenote: NL has accidental finds |
|
13:47
🔗
|
joepie91 |
so they can theoretically find something entirely unrelated to their original search purpose |
|
13:47
🔗
|
joepie91 |
and then prosecute you for that instead |
|
13:47
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
yes |
|
13:48
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
like they found weapons in one flat around here when someone broke into the flat and they had investigation or some conflict happened |
|
13:48
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
the weapons werent used |
|
13:48
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
but |
|
13:48
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
they were found and were confiscated and the guy got arrested |
|
13:48
🔗
|
joepie91 |
yup |
|
13:49
🔗
|
joepie91 |
so yeah, I guess the surveillance state has come full circle now |
|
13:49
🔗
|
joepie91 |
in NL |
|
13:49
🔗
|
joepie91 |
arbitrary forced entry to and search in house, only requiring a vague suspicion, to then prosecute for any "accidental find" made |
|
13:51
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
that's really fucked up beyond belief |
|
13:51
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
not to mention if someone rally hates you can place something that you didnt even have there |
|
13:51
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
and the police over here isnt quite the nicest guys |
|
13:52
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
already ran to few of them in past which thought the reason for me looking weak was because i was a drunkard or wanted to rob something when i went just a side path around one building |
|
14:00
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Leo_TCK: the only caveat here is that you can theoretically stop the search by providing an ID |
|
14:00
🔗
|
joepie91 |
but... that's trivially worked around |
|
14:01
🔗
|
joepie91 |
either raid the place when nobody's home, or wait for a friend to visit who's probably not carrying an ID, and pretend to be looking for him |
|
14:32
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
hmm |
|
14:33
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
well at least no "friends" visit us here, but sometimes we are both outside of course, but good to know to have that limited or watch out |
|
14:35
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
so...how can we stop this insanity anyway? its going to become really bad if this goes on |
|
14:36
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
more and more opression until the world is ready for totalitarian rule everywhere and on everything |
|
14:37
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
and those peaceful protests and no violence leads to the elite only laughing it off |
|
14:38
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
and on the other side too much violence/destroying is just another madness, i mean see ukraine and destroying old statues which are just art anyway no matter what ideologies they once represented |
|
14:38
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
they become so blind with their fury |
|
14:38
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
an they dont even know what they're going to |
|
14:38
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
an that eu is not any way better |
|
14:38
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
instead of becoming something of their own |
|
14:42
🔗
|
BiggieJon |
are there any happy places left on this damm planet ? |
|
14:44
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
was there ever a "happy" place to begin with or is that just another deception? but things weren't this in dispair during times, not quite i guess |
|
14:45
🔗
|
BiggieJon |
every century has it's issues, it's just gotten far more complicated with technology |
|
14:46
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
yea and not just with that, it's not the technology itself, its how its been abused, but it's the ideas and the plans |
|
14:51
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
and its been slowly going there without anyone noticing or hardly |
|
14:51
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
before its too late |
|
14:52
🔗
|
ersi |
BiggieJon: No. |
|
14:54
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
but who really planned it? I've heard that the stuff to financial crisis was all linked to some conglomerate or whatever, but who are they? Is it really like all those conspiracy theories say and say it's something like "Illuminati"? I don't know about that but otherwise? |
|
14:58
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
and what's up with the paranormal shit lately, who's the hatman or hatmen, what are those strange objects/crafts popping up at the sky, strange local weather conditions seemingly out of nowhere, reported rips or time incostencies.. |
|
14:59
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
all those questions and hardly any answers |
|
15:01
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i might as well call mully and sculder |
|
15:24
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Leo_TCK: a far more reasonable explanation is that there are a bunch of actors who have gained power over time, and who all work towards their own interests |
|
15:24
🔗
|
joepie91 |
that just happen to sort of kind of align |
|
15:25
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
perhaps but the finances did go towards one source more or less as far as i recall hearing/reading about |
|
15:25
🔗
|
joepie91 |
not really |
|
15:26
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Leo_TCK: look, the theory of "illuminati" is more or less to society what "god" is to nature and physics |
|
15:26
🔗
|
joepie91 |
yes, it could be true in theory |
|
15:26
🔗
|
joepie91 |
yes, people believe in it |
|
15:26
🔗
|
joepie91 |
but in practice, there are more plausible theories |
|
15:27
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
i am not saying its the illuminati i think thats way far fetched but something similar could be happening |
|
15:27
🔗
|
joepie91 |
and "illuminati" is more or less just an oversimplification to explain away things |
|
15:27
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
yea |
|
15:27
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Leo_TCK: well, no, not really |
|
15:27
🔗
|
joepie91 |
like |
|
15:27
🔗
|
joepie91 |
it could THEORETICALLY be true |
|
15:27
🔗
|
joepie91 |
but almost certainly isn't |
|
15:27
🔗
|
joepie91 |
historically, claims of "illuminati" have almost always been based on "hints" |
|
15:28
🔗
|
joepie91 |
that have allegedly been left |
|
15:28
🔗
|
joepie91 |
certain imagery, terms, whatevr |
|
15:28
🔗
|
joepie91 |
in practice, that's a fairly insane theory - after all, _why_ would a secretive organization or even family sprawl hints all around the place? |
|
15:28
🔗
|
joepie91 |
they can get anything money can buy; secretive communication is not a problem |
|
15:28
🔗
|
joepie91 |
so you can more or less discount that theory |
|
15:29
🔗
|
BiggieJon |
once you start to involve other people, someone will leak info eventuly |
|
15:29
🔗
|
joepie91 |
which means that the only remaining credible evidence for "illuminati" is that there's a few large actors who control much of the worlds finances and legislation |
|
15:29
🔗
|
joepie91 |
however, when that is your evidence, there are more credible and likely theories |
|
15:29
🔗
|
joepie91 |
such as what I just mentioned |
|
15:29
🔗
|
joepie91 |
their interests just happen to align |
|
15:29
🔗
|
joepie91 |
there is, as far as I am aware, no additional evidence that makes an "illuminati" scenario more likely than a "bad actor with temporary alliances" scenario |
|
15:30
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
im not followng that theory though i just named an example, i'm not saying they left clues here and there for that stuff or that they exist as such |
|
15:31
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Leo_TCK: I was responding to your example :) |
|
15:32
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
but the stuff has been planned for ages i thik that's more or less clear, but i personally dont think it is the illuminati as explained in sch theories |
|
15:34
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
it has been happening in steps an there are accounts of people claiming the financial crisis is planned way before it happened, for example, bt that doesnt mae it necesarily illuminati scenario |
|
15:40
🔗
|
Leo_TCK |
but there just miht be bits of those theories true, so much stuff turned out to be true what was thought to be paranoid conspiracy theory |
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15:40
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Leo_TCK |
once thought* |
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16:32
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SketchCow |
Ha ha, right where this conversation belongs! Kudos! |
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16:33
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SketchCow |
I'd have gone nuts if this was in the main channel, but instead it's here and pages of goodness. |
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19:11
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DFJustin |
http://mamedev.emulab.it/haze/2013-mame/ |
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23:17
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PENNY121 |
evaluate strategy webgame http://ow.ly/tZz0c |
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23:40
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dashcloud |
Google's announced the projects involved in this year's Summer of Code: https://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/org/list/public/google/gsoc2014 I always love looking at the projects and their idea lists |