| Time |
Nickname |
Message |
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00:32
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00:54
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00:57
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joepie91 |
wp494: ivan`: it's a fake |
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00:57
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joepie91 |
grooveshark.io |
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00:57
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joepie91 |
ref. https://twitter.com/Mackaber/status/595744227084115969 |
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00:57
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joepie91 |
.tw https://twitter.com/Mackaber/status/595744227084115969 |
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00:57
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botpie91 |
Sorry, couldn't get a tweet from https://twitter.com/Mackaber/status/595744227084115969 (@Mackaber) |
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00:57
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joepie91 |
fuck it |
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00:57
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joepie91 |
anyhow, that claim seems correct |
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00:57
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joepie91 |
layout very similar, same choice of hosting providers |
|
00:57
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joepie91 |
same dl.<domain> pattern |
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01:06
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joepie91 |
(also same database) |
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02:47
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02:47
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SketchCow |
http://graphite.us.archive.org/render/?width=500&height=320&from=-36h&target=cactiStyle%28alias%28scale%28petabox.analytics.totaltime_v2.300ms%2C+60%29%2C%22300ms%22%29%29&target=cactiStyle%28alias%28scale%28petabox.analytics.totaltime_v2.1000ms%2C+60%29%2C%221000ms%22%29%29&target=cactiStyle%28alias%28scale%28petabox.analytics.totaltime_v2.5000ms%2C+60%29%2C%225000ms%22%29%29&target=cactiStyle%2 |
|
02:47
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SketchCow |
8alias%28scale%28petabox.analytics.totaltime_v2.10000ms%2C+60%29%2C%2210000ms%22%29%29&target=cactiStyle%28alias%28scale%28petabox.analytics.totaltime_v2.20000ms%2C+60%29%2C%2220000ms%22%29%29&target=cactiStyle%28alias%28scale%28petabox.analytics.totaltime_v2.60000ms%2C+60%29%2C%2260000ms%22%29%29&target=cactiStyle%28alias%28scale%28petabox.analytics.totaltime_v2.LONG%2C+60%29%2C%22LONG%22%29%29& |
|
02:48
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SketchCow |
areaMode=stacked&lineMode=staircase&min=0&colorList=00aa00%2C99ff33%2Cffff00%2Cff6600%2C990000%2Ccc00ff%2C%23111111&title=archive.org+v2+pageviews+per+minute+binned+by+in+browser+page+render+time&template=plain&uniq=0.8274248273898523 |
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02:48
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* |
SketchCow motions for heimlich maneuver |
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02:48
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02:52
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02:56
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Ctrl-S |
sketchcow pls use a url shortener |
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02:56
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|
* |
Ctrl-S realises the irony |
|
03:03
🔗
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SketchCow |
If you care, this is a paste gone wrong |
|
03:03
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xmc |
looking at the graph already |
|
03:03
🔗
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SketchCow |
I basically mess with our graphite server to make it show me trends in usage |
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03:04
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xmc |
huh, you can instrument a browser to tell you how long it takes to render the page? |
|
03:04
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xmc |
neato |
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03:05
🔗
|
Ctrl-S |
are there any URL shorteners what give out their link:hash table? |
|
03:05
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|
xmc |
there was one but they went away |
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03:05
🔗
|
xmc |
urlteam got it |
|
03:06
🔗
|
Ctrl-S |
i just thought that it might be easier to suggest people use one like that than not use one at all |
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03:06
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Ctrl-S |
and then have the IA run it or something |
|
03:07
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|
Ctrl-S |
because putting all our eggs in their basket has worked out quite well so far |
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03:07
🔗
|
xmc |
or run it on the pdfy model |
|
03:12
🔗
|
DFJustin |
Ctrl-S: there are some https://archive.org/details/301works?sort=-publicdate |
|
03:13
🔗
|
SketchCow |
I'm pushing a small pile of CD-ROMs contributed into the archive |
|
03:13
🔗
|
SketchCow |
(There are, of course, hundreds waiting for me to add, but I didn't have time to copy the drive.) |
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03:14
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DFJustin |
awwww |
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03:15
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SketchCow |
I know |
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03:15
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SketchCow |
Bothers me too, but had no time. |
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03:16
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SketchCow |
650 images. |
|
03:16
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SketchCow |
I will go home, make more, then mail in. |
|
03:16
🔗
|
SketchCow |
I will need to find a volunteer to scan the CD faces in. |
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03:17
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DFJustin |
can you do that on a scribe machine |
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03:18
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SketchCow |
We have a megascanner that can do, like, 30 at once |
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03:18
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SketchCow |
Or 20 |
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03:19
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|
Ctrl-S |
with a grid to hold them in place? |
|
03:22
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yipdw |
non-hydrogenated URL shortening |
|
03:28
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SketchCow |
Not sure how to best do it, but it can do a lot. |
|
03:28
🔗
|
* |
SketchCow is now shoving in a pile of Atari stuff. |
|
03:28
🔗
|
SketchCow |
I'm trying to do some boring archive work while at archive |
|
03:28
🔗
|
SketchCow |
Occulus rift on my desk, thanks to facebook's COO. |
|
03:28
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SketchCow |
(She dropped one off.) |
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03:28
🔗
|
SketchCow |
Now that's delivery |
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03:29
🔗
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SketchCow |
Yes, I know she just had a tragedy |
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03:29
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Ctrl-S |
VR interface to the archive? |
|
03:30
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SketchCow |
Yes |
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03:57
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yipdw |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p0jmewhXeU basically SketchCow at the moment |
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03:58
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04:29
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05:03
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Ctrl-S has quit IRC ( HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)) |
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05:10
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05:36
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BlueMaxim |
Jason is going to invent the OASIS :P |
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05:48
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06:13
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06:15
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06:19
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06:19
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06:20
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10:48
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10:50
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17:37
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godane |
i'm starting to upload arirang koreatoday shows i got |
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18:26
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18:30
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godane |
uploaded: https://archive.org/details/arirang-koreatoday-2012-06-01-300k |
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18:37
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RichardG_ is now known as RichardG |
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18:51
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godane |
SketchCow: btw Engadget HD podcast is almost done |
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18:51
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godane |
only ~52 episodes to go |
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18:56
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schbirid2 |
lol http://grooveshark.io/search/"><h1>Test</h1> |
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20:55
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schbirid2 |
hmmm, time to buy? http://geizhals.de/?phist=1204027 |
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21:08
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joepie91 |
http://www.infoworld.com/article/2917575/encryption/mozillas-firefox-https-or-bust.html |
|
21:08
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joepie91 |
http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/security/mozilla-unencrypted-web-167592 |
|
21:08
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joepie91 |
apparently my writing style doesn't just gather HN upvotes... |
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21:09
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Sanqui |
i just don't agree |
|
21:09
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|
Sanqui |
i side with mozilla here |
|
21:09
🔗
|
Sanqui |
(and on most things, really) |
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21:11
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joepie91 |
Sanqui: awaiting the counterarguments? |
|
21:12
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Sanqui |
i forgot them |
|
21:13
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Sanqui |
that said i'm not looking for an argument |
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21:16
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Sanqui |
joepie91: i read your post, but i don't think you addressed that mozilla said the features *would* be available under encrypted but not identified (with a cert) sites |
|
21:17
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Sanqui |
at which point the whole thing about certs and CA trust becomes kind of moot |
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21:17
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Sanqui |
i think it's needless FUD, mozilla have stated they're trying to make it as painless and progressive as possible, they don't deserve the bad press and FUD |
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21:18
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joepie91 |
Sanqui: that is meaningless for as long as browsers keep throwing up bright red walls on any non-CA-signed cert |
|
21:18
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Sanqui |
sorry for throwing FUD in there, that's a terrible word |
|
21:18
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joepie91 |
you're not going to run a production site with a TLS warning |
|
21:18
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joepie91 |
that is just not reasonable to expect |
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21:18
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Sanqui |
joepie91: they won't |
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21:18
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Sanqui |
http2 supports encrypted but not certed connections |
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21:18
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joepie91 |
great, this is not about HTTP2 |
|
21:18
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joepie91 |
this is about the browser |
|
21:18
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Sanqui |
obviously the browser doesn't show red walls for these |
|
21:19
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joepie91 |
the current browser behaviour on HTTP1.x combined with their announced changes WILL harm the open web |
|
21:19
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joepie91 |
so either of the two is going to have to give |
|
21:19
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joepie91 |
but so far, neither has |
|
21:19
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joepie91 |
and that is the problem |
|
21:19
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Sanqui |
they didn't even announce what will change |
|
21:19
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Sanqui |
they said it's gonna be new features |
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21:19
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joepie91 |
... did you actually read the post? |
|
21:19
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joepie91 |
the mozilla post |
|
21:19
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Sanqui |
if you're using new features you probably have an up to date webserver too |
|
21:19
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|
Sanqui |
yes |
|
21:19
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joepie91 |
sigh |
|
21:19
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SketchCow |
Is everyone OK? |
|
21:19
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joepie91 |
sorry, but that's just a dumb assumption to make |
|
21:20
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joepie91 |
Sanqui: you're making a ton of jumps in logic here |
|
21:20
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joepie91 |
to somehow try and shoehorn mozilla's decision into an "acceptable" state |
|
21:20
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|
Sanqui |
and if not, the browser isn't going to remember the permission to access [whatever hardware feature] |
|
21:20
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Sanqui |
but it can still access it |
|
21:20
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joepie91 |
guess what - there are real-world scenarios where their decision is going to hinder people |
|
21:20
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Sanqui |
imo that's perfect |
|
21:20
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joepie91 |
Sanqui: IT ISN'T ABOUT FUCKING HARDWARE FEATURES. IT IS ABOUT _EVERY_ NEW FEATURE. |
|
21:20
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joepie91 |
jesus |
|
21:20
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joepie91 |
read the fucking post, please |
|
21:20
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SketchCow |
Kiss and get it over already |
|
21:21
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SketchCow |
Not because I think that's an accurate statement |
|
21:21
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SketchCow |
Just want to watch you kiss |
|
21:21
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* |
SketchCow gets snacks |
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21:21
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Sanqui |
<3 |
|
21:21
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Sanqui |
idk they've said it's about hardware features |
|
21:21
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SketchCow |
The thing about mozilla is if you punch mozilla, they do discuss things |
|
21:21
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|
Sanqui |
>For example, one definition of “new” could be “features that cannot be polyfilled”. That would allow things like CSS and other rendering features to still be used by insecure websites, since the page can draw effects on its own (e.g., using <canvas>). But it would still restrict qualitatively new features, such as access to new hardware capabilities. |
|
21:22
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joepie91 |
key phrase: "such as" |
|
21:22
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|
joepie91 |
including but not limited to |
|
21:22
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|
joepie91 |
amongst the restricted features will be |
|
21:22
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|
joepie91 |
!= "just these things" |
|
21:22
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Sanqui |
yes. i'm assuming it's gonna be features for which the restriction is going to make sense. |
|
21:22
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joepie91 |
if they had meant hardware features, they'd have straight-out said "hardware features" |
|
21:22
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joepie91 |
no |
|
21:23
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|
joepie91 |
why would you assume taht? |
|
21:23
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|
joepie91 |
if that's what they meant, that's what they would've said |
|
21:23
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|
Sanqui |
because i trust mozilla? |
|
21:23
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joepie91 |
oh yes |
|
21:23
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|
joepie91 |
trust mozilla |
|
21:23
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|
xmc |
christ joepie |
|
21:23
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joepie91 |
that worked well when they introduced start page ads |
|
21:23
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|
xmc |
take off the tinfoil hat for once |
|
21:23
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SketchCow |
shhhhh |
|
21:23
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|
SketchCow |
he used megawelds |
|
21:23
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|
SketchCow |
that thing's stuck 4 life |
|
21:23
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|
xmc |
next thing i know you're going to be saying IA is closing down |
|
21:23
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|
Sanqui |
like, they literally said, "we'll have to decide on the definition of new. one possibility is..." |
|
21:23
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|
SketchCow |
FUNNY YOU SHOULD MENTION |
|
21:23
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joepie91 |
xmc: this is not a tinfoil fucking hat, these are real fucking problems that people deny on the fucking basis that "well, it's mozilla" |
|
21:23
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Sanqui |
and you're drawing those huge conclusions |
|
21:23
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SketchCow |
Also, anybody in the SF area, come by |
|
21:24
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|
SketchCow |
7pm tonight. It's gonna be cray |
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21:24
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joepie91 |
Sanqui: yes, because you know what the next step is going to be? |
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21:24
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joepie91 |
"oh, we've decided that X, sorry, but too late to change" |
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21:24
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joepie91 |
and the next? |
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21:24
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SketchCow |
force flouridation? |
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21:24
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xmc |
balrog DFJustin ersi underscor yipdw: spread the @s |
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21:24
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joepie91 |
"oh, we've implemented X, well that sucks, you should've said something earlier" |
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21:24
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balrog sets mode: +o xmc |
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21:24
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ersi |
xmc: I refuse |
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21:24
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balrog |
you do the rest |
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21:24
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ersi |
:D |
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21:24
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xmc |
hah ok |
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21:24
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joepie91 |
Sanqui: so yes, I'm going to raise a fucking fit RIGHT NOW so that for fucking once maybe people can fix this shit BEFORE it goes to hell |
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21:24
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Sanqui |
i'm pretty sure changes like that take at minimum 6 months to get into regular firefox |
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21:24
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joepie91 |
instead of having to spend thrice the effort afterwards |
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21:24
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joepie91 |
to get stupid decisions reversed |
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21:25
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joepie91 |
the mozilla post is quite clear - it's not about "hardware features only", it's not about "things that need restriction only" - if it were either of those things, THAT IS WHAT THE POST WOULD HAVE SAID. |
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21:25
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joepie91 |
and it doesn't |
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21:25
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Sanqui |
what do you think it is about? |
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21:25
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joepie91 |
............. |
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21:25
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joepie91 |
>For example, one definition of “new” could be “features that cannot be polyfilled”. |
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21:25
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xmc sets mode: +ooo chfoo SketchCow closure |
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21:26
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ersi |
Jeez Sanqui |
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21:26
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joepie91 |
that can mean a metric shitton of things |
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21:26
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joepie91 |
what do you think would happen had shadow DOM been introduced after this proposal? |
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21:26
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joepie91 |
well guess what |
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21:26
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joepie91 |
you can't polyfill that |
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21:26
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joepie91 |
mutation observers? can't properly polyfill that either! |
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21:26
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joepie91 |
well there goes just about every chance of building a performant data-bound web app |
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21:26
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ersi |
I love how it's impossible to download Firefox if you try to from something a little ancient |
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21:26
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joepie91 |
but no, surely it's just going to be about the hardware |
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21:26
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joepie91 |
because everything else can be polyfilled |
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21:27
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joepie91 |
come on |
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21:27
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ersi |
because all the download sites are TLS with settings that doesn't work or the CAs are updated and not in the system-wide crap |
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21:27
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ersi |
mostly XP though, which is legacy shit though.. but still |
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21:27
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aaaaaaaaa |
it doesn't say either way because weasel words "could be" everything else is speculation between best and worst case on both sides. |
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21:28
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joepie91 |
aaaaaaaaa: which is exactly why I'm throwing a fit |
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21:28
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SimpBrain has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) |
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21:28
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Sanqui |
why do you think they would want to restrict these features for non-secure sites? |
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21:28
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joepie91 |
because that way, _hopefully_, people will pay a bit of fucking attention to the side effects that decisions could create :| |
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21:29
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joepie91 |
Sanqui: because they want to pressure developers into using SSL? the article is not exactly fuzzy about their intentions |
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21:29
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Sanqui |
to me, it read about an attempt to primarily benefit users (who are clueless about security) |
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21:30
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ersi |
sure but you still need to have some god damn sense |
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21:30
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joepie91 |
Sanqui: by pressuring developers. |
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21:30
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ersi |
joepie91 isn't saying that things shouldn't be encrypted |
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21:30
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xmc |
where the hell is swebb and his autoopbot |
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21:30
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xmc |
this is too much pressure for me |
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21:31
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Sanqui |
ersi: i know he isn't. |
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21:31
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Sanqui |
joepie91: over the long term, while attempting to make it as painless as possible |
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21:32
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Sanqui |
look, i don't think a feature, even a hardware one, should be completely restricted, but not enabling a permission to be remembered, or making it clear to the user the site is not verified, is in my eyes perfectly fine |
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21:32
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joepie91 |
Sanqui: not enabling a permission to be remembered is fine, but not what is being proposed |
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21:33
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joepie91 |
making it clear the site isn't verified is *potentially* okay, but also not what is being proposed |
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21:33
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joepie91 |
"completely restricting" is what is being proposed |
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21:33
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joepie91 |
the exact featureset just hasn't been determined yet |
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21:33
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21:34
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Sanqui |
i don't think features would end up completely restricted. if you fear that, feel free to take a stand against it, but i think the backlash after what's essentially good intentions is overblown |
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21:35
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ersi |
that's what he's freakin' taking a stand for |
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21:35
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ersi |
s/for/against/ |
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21:35
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joepie91 |
Sanqui: that is quite literally what they're saying, and that is quite literally what I'm doing |
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21:35
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SketchCow changes topic to: Archive Team: Joepie's Tea and Chit-Chat HugFest Week |
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21:35
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DFJustin |
everything on the web needs to be encrypted yesterday and if this gets people off their asses then good |
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21:36
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xmc |
maybe firefox should outright remove plaintext http |
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21:36
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Sanqui |
i just think claiming mozilla is going to break the web is overblown and frankly unfair |
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21:36
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xmc |
maybe it would make people bitch less |
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21:37
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ersi |
you guys are as bitchy as joepie91 |
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21:37
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ersi |
but in the other direction |
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21:37
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ersi |
so let's call it even, bitches |
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21:37
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xmc |
it's Whiney Wednesday |
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21:37
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ersi |
Add another W and ya got yerself some WWW |
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21:39
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xmc |
Whiniest Wednesday on the Web |
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21:39
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ersi |
there we go :) |
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21:41
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SketchCow |
I think this means you all need more projects. |
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21:41
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Sanqui |
way too many |
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21:47
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22:05
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ersi |
like, archiving all of the ssl/tls certs |
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22:06
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Sanqui |
hm, does ssl observatory not archive? |
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22:11
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yipdw |
gMu8n5RJVyGN40L76J6Qx1XzPVJBC9GwchEGWVwDwu4= |
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22:12
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yipdw |
WuIkgvBZmBt4Ox07MzzzDxfOK/ac4bYrJq4WCoxQBPk= |
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22:12
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yipdw |
hmm encrypted IRC isn't all that useful eh |
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22:12
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Sanqui |
what? it's very useful |
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22:12
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SketchCow |
It's useful to the other ones |
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22:13
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SketchCow |
Who can decrypt |
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22:13
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Sanqui |
you should be connecting to irc with ssl/tls |
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22:13
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Sanqui |
port 6697 |
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22:13
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yipdw |
my bad joke went bad |
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22:15
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pikhq |
Unfortunately only some EFNet servers support SSL and there's no way to, say, connect in a rotation of the SSL-supporting ones. |
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22:15
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Sanqui |
dang, I didn't know hat |
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22:15
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DFJustin |
hmm I wonder if this one does |
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22:15
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Sanqui |
it sucks that efnet is so archaic |
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22:15
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yipdw |
ArchiveTeam on Slack |
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22:16
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22:16
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22:16
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pikhq |
So you can do it, but you need to list servers rather than hit "ssl = yes" on irc.efnet.org. |
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22:16
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Sanqui |
i'm not sold on hip stuff like slack |
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22:16
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Sanqui |
admittedly i haven't looked into it |
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22:17
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yipdw |
ArchiveTeam on HipChat |
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22:17
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DFJustin has joined #archiveteam-bs |
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22:17
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DFJustin |
oh hey it does |
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22:17
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22:17
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Sanqui |
the problem is there's no good irc successor i know of |
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22:17
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DFJustin |
self-signed though |
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22:19
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Sanqui |
i haven't written down all my requirements yet though |
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22:20
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pikhq |
It's kinda hard to replace IRC. Can you improve it? You bet. Can you improve it enough to make there be a point in switching? Eh, tricky. |
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22:20
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Sanqui |
eventually I'll need to do a survey of what's out there and if there's something which fits my ideal, back on it |
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22:20
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yipdw |
i will use the first IRC replacement that lets me painlessly embed animated emoji |
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22:20
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Sanqui |
no, see, that is actually necessary |
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22:21
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yipdw |
yes it is |
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22:21
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Sanqui |
as long as it's easy to restrict (channel-wide or locally) that is absolutely a feature |
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22:21
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22:22
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pikhq |
It is a real shame that XMPP is, well, XMPP. |
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22:22
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Sanqui |
xmpp doesn't cut it but it gets points for effort |
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22:23
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pikhq |
I suspect one of the things that would help an IRC replacement would be the ability to easily access it with an IRC client. |
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22:23
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Sanqui |
yes, definitely |
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22:23
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Sanqui |
a proxy |
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22:24
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Sanqui |
even better if a node/server can accept irc clients |
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22:24
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ersi |
well hipchat or slack has a IRC interface thing |
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22:24
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ersi |
can't remember which |
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22:24
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xmc |
slack talks irc iirc |
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22:26
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yipdw |
I think I like IRC in the same way I like outhouses |
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22:26
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yipdw |
they're a bit gross but you know it'll always be there and anyone can set one up |
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22:26
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yipdw |
actually that simile doesn't work at all does it |
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toad1 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
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22:31
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ersi |
mmmh the smell of feces |
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22:31
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ersi |
also freezing while pooping |
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22:38
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joepie91 |
Sanqui: I'll stop bitching about Mozilla breaking the web when they provide hard assurances that they're not going to break the web |
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22:39
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joepie91 |
that should be a trivial and uneventful expectation, if it really is as non-problematic as you picture it |
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22:48
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deathy |
joepie91: pdf.yt/cryto/other?....what's the proper place to donate something via paypal? |
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22:50
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joepie91 |
deathy: any of them :) the PDFy page has most details |
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22:50
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joepie91 |
at https://pdf.yt/donate |
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22:50
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joepie91 |
or rather, most methods |
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22:51
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joepie91 |
(I'll be standardizing all my other donation pages on that same system in the future) |
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22:52
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deathy |
looked at the pdf.yt page and thought the target email was a bit odd... |
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22:54
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joepie91 |
deathy: yeah, very old email address |
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22:54
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joepie91 |
deathy: paypal seems to be ignoring my "show business name" option |
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22:54
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joepie91 |
for unclear reasons |
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22:54
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joepie91 |
and you can't set aliases on donation buttons either, apparently |
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22:54
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joepie91 |
read: paypal is dumb |
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22:55
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deathy |
well, hope it processed it ok. keep up the good work :) |
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22:58
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joepie91 |
deathy: it arrived, thanks :D |
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22:58
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joepie91 |
relatedly, wtf is up with paypal no longer showing the item name in the overview |
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22:59
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* |
joepie91 returns to other things |