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SketchCow |
Greek ISPs could be the new Swedish ISPs |
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hm? |
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All society goes to shit, nothing to lose, host any crazy thing as long as it pays |
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godane |
so i'm up to 2014-07 of medium.com sitemap posts |
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09:34
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arkiver |
<Burnin8>Hello. |
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09:34
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arkiver |
<Burnin8>Attempting to promote an archiveteam project on r/linux/: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3a5796/sourceforge_archivalreplacement_effort/ |
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arkiver |
also posting here |
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DFJustin |
http://thequietus.com/articles/18004-sound-library-british-library |
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SketchCow |
I can't stop watching the Shenmue |
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14:39
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SketchCow |
I have never played this stupid game. I just love watching gamers rip themselves apart. |
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joepie91 |
arkiver: posted a reply; https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3a5796/sourceforge_archivalreplacement_effort/cs9i6z7 |
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14:44
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joepie91 |
(as a reply to that post) |
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aaaaaaaaa |
joepie91: you win the best comment I read so far this year award! |
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17:00
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aaaaaaaaa |
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3a5796/sourceforge_archivalreplacement_effort/cs9l1y4 |
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18:03
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schbirid |
gotta love archiveteam people |
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18:03
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schbirid |
"i have a few hundreds of free terabytes which are connected with 40gbit which i could offer for a few months" from #coldstorage :) |
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18:21
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bzc6p |
aaaaaaaaa arkiver achip dashcloud chfoo yipdw antomatic closure garyrh ersi Kazzy midas DFJustin SimpBrain schbirid Start and others |
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18:21
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bzc6p |
(I've already mentioned, but you are some of the important members whose opinion can't be dismissed. The list is not complete of course.) |
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18:21
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bzc6p |
I know some of you are quite busy, but let me mention it now, as I don't know how long I can stay in the main channels. |
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18:21
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bzc6p |
When you have time, please look at http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=user:bzc6p/Restructuring_projects_pages. |
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18:21
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bzc6p |
I suggested a change in projects pages layout on the wiki, the details and a link to a preview is in that proposal. |
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18:22
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bzc6p |
If you're interested please take a look at it and I'd like to have your feedback. If you like it, I think these would be good changes. |
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18:22
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bzc6p |
Modifications may be made or suggested. In case there are objections, the pages stay as they are now. |
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18:22
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bzc6p |
Thanks. |
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18:22
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bzc6p |
PS: xmc, joepie91: I replied to you, haven't received counter-replies. |
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18:22
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bzc6p |
PPS: I'll be AFK for like an hour, will be back after that (and later) to read the possible comments. |
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18:22
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bzc6p |
PPPS: xmc, apologies for the mail style. Couldn't find a different way. |
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18:22
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schbirid |
anything done to thew iki can only improve it |
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18:23
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aaaaaaaaa |
make all the pages orange on blue! |
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18:23
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yipdw |
bzc6p: the proposal and mockup look fine to me |
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18:24
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yipdw |
I'd also like to know more about your skepticism on ArchiveBot, especially whether the problems are merely technical or more fundamental |
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18:25
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SimpBrain |
active projects expanded, upcoming expanded, future ones collaped |
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18:25
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SimpBrain |
maybe encourage the site users to claim smaller jobs and archive them on their own profile pages |
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18:26
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SimpBrain |
*archive/document |
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18:26
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schbirid |
hm, not a fan of collapsed things |
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18:27
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schbirid |
but those tables are nice |
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18:27
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SimpBrain |
agreed |
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18:52
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aaaaaaaaa |
I wonder if rather than finished projects being in bold, active ones should be. That way they are easier to spot. |
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19:40
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bzc6p |
schbirid: well, the sections could be expanded, but then I find the page way too long and section headers confusing, even with having a TOC, but it may be only my taste. |
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19:42
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bzc6p |
SimpBrain: The first section, Current Projects, contain all the upcoming and current projects, the other sections are just for "the historical record" and to have all of one project type together. The tables within one project type, I think, should't be split to future/current/past, the table can be sorted and newest projects are on the top by default (new entries should be added there). |
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19:44
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bzc6p |
SimpBrain: That way, Current Projects could be expanded while the others not. But then wouldn't the other types of projects become "invisible"? Now everything is in front of the viewer. (I don't know if they would scroll down and surely find them). |
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19:45
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bzc6p |
SimpBrain: well, if one user started to dominate the Small Projects table very much and there were too many projects in there (which is not the case at the moment), that would be a good way. |
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19:46
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bzc6p |
Or, if there were a lot of users adding projects there. BUT: this one is easier to search. (If someone wants to find out whether a site is/was archived, just Ctrl+F) |
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19:47
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bzc6p |
aaaaaaaaa: the Warrior table didn't get much change, that is how chfoo marked them. I agree with you, though. |
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19:47
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SimpBrain |
just needs a nice balance between the mammoth jobs and the small ones |
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19:48
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bzc6p |
aaaaaaaaa: colors can be adjusted, I'm not a graphic designer :) |
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19:49
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bzc6p |
yipdw: thanks. I think I should have omitted that sentence, but my skepticism is only technical. ArchiveBot is a great thing for those who don't have the resources and/or aren't familiar with tools. Advanced users may like to follow the progress on their machine and intervene if necessary. But not this is the point. |
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19:50
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bzc6p |
The point is: too few websites can be archived in automated ways, per my experience. |
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19:51
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SimpBrain |
true so many code their site so its hard to grab the content even visible on the page |
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19:52
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bzc6p |
I must archive a bunch of different websites now, and almost none of them can't be archived without discovery, often painstakingly. I suck a lot with them. Javascript menus are just the first step, Ajax GET thingies when I start hate JS, and Ajax POST when the tableflip comes. |
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19:55
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19:55
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bzc6p |
yipdw: This is not a problem with ArchiveBot, that's a great thing. What I am skepticistic about is if one issues !a example.com and then sits back and says "Great, example.com archived.". Well, I know how much work it is to discover a site structure so I don't blame anyone who don't/can't take the effort, but we just can't say that simply that ArchiveBot saves websites. Maybe some of them, and some parts of them. (Of course, if one generates an urll |
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19:55
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bzc6p |
ist, the grab can be made more complete) |
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19:57
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bzc6p |
Of course, maybe I'm just too unlucky, there are indeed a lot of websites that can be grabbed fairly. (Some of them look like that but aren't, e.g. save a login.php for every post, or get into an infinite loop with a calendar. But the JS is the most pain, and too many sites overuse it.) |
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19:59
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bzc6p |
-------------- |
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20:00
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SimpBrain |
the nightmare ones are the video sites if they die |
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20:00
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SimpBrain |
so much content could be lost |
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20:01
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bzc6p |
So, basically, the ones who replied so far, like the idea to put tables like that on a single page embedded from other pages, showing all projects on one page in such sections. |
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20:02
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bzc6p |
The differences in opinions are about collapse or not, fonts and color if I understand well. Fortunately, all these can be changed easily even later. |
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20:03
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bzc6p |
(I encourage you to contradict me or insist on your ideas, I usually don't insist on mine and let others "win". I also await your counterreplies.) |
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20:09
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Sanqui |
is there a 'lightweight js' project, which is not a full browser stack (like phantomjs), but allows for scraping js for ajax and links? |
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20:09
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Sanqui |
perhaps one which 'understands' common js libraries like jquery |
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20:10
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bzc6p |
I always wondered why a webbrowser+wget combo hasn't born yet |
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20:10
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bzc6p |
Well, not always, just recently |
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20:11
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Sanqui |
the problem is the 'web browser scraper' is quite heavy |
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20:12
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bzc6p |
Sorry, but I can't miss Start from asking (pingign) about http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=user:bzc6p/Restructuring_projects_pages (he was away then). He's a very active wiki editor. |
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20:17
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Start |
i like http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=User:Bzc6p/Projects better than the existing pages |
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20:18
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Start |
editing will be a lot quicker, getting rid of the outdated channel list on the IRC page will be nice too |
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20:19
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bzc6p |
Thanks. Embedding the content is a bit strange but I don't know if it would be good to shove everything on a single page. Plus, that way a table can be embedded from somewhere else also |
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20:19
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bzc6p |
. |
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20:19
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bzc6p |
It's not long to learn the structure I think. But this move may be wrong also. |
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20:21
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Start |
i also think the "Archive Team News" and "Recently Ended Projects" sections should be removed from the main page and put elsewhere for historical purposes |
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20:21
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bzc6p |
Start: yes, I also thought of that for long - nobody updates them and they can be found in the projects tables. |
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20:24
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20:24
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bzc6p |
They could be, for example, put on Main page/News archive or something |
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20:24
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bzc6p |
6 users are able to do that as the Main page is protected. http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&group=sysop |
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20:28
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bzc6p |
So, if we expanded Current Projects, I think a TOC would be necessary, but that's so long it would push everything more down. |
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20:30
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yipdw |
bzc6p: ah yes |
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yipdw |
yeah, URL discovery is a pain, and Javascript etc make it even worse |
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yipdw |
we actually do grab quite a bit, but you're right that it is currently not easy to verify the result |
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yipdw |
I have at present a very manual and laborious process to import WARCs into a pywb instance for preview, and we do have the fetch logs; we however can do a better job of making them accessible |
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yipdw |
we do have a web-browser + wget combo with wpull+phantomjs (setting aside phantomjs quirks); one big thing we're missing is the ability to script interactions beyond "scroll" |
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yipdw |
I think http://archivebot-prod3.at.ninjawedding.org/main/20150611193249/http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-paul-ford-what-is-code is pretty representative of the fidelity we can get for single pages; full sites is harder to verify |
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winr4r |
who needed a wiki sysop |
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bzc6p |
yipdw: the sites I've met don't rely on scrolling, more on ajax queries and other shit |
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winr4r |
tbh, if it was possible i think it would be okay to unprotect the main page, or at least make it so it's not cascade-protected so news can be updated by non-admins, since we don't have a major problem with malicious users, but 1) i'm not sure that's possible 2) not my decision to make, that'd need jason approval |
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winr4r |
someone should find out about 1) |
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winr4r |
! |
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yipdw |
bzc6p: yeah, sites that lazy-load on e.g. click/keypress are a pain |
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bzc6p |
winr4r: It would also be a solution like with Current Projects: editable on a non-protected page and embedded into the protected main page. BUT, as I said, it's probably unnecessary and redundant, given that we('ll) have a projects page |
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bzc6p |
Now I must go. I'd appreciate others' opinions (if any) about the wiki restructuring and the counterreplies (if any) of those who already spoke. Thanks for the input so far. Good night. |
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garyrh |
I like the new layout. |
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garyrh |
In the How to use this page table, you could remove the bullet pointed descriptions of each table as you already described them individually. |
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garyrh |
e.g. "Current Projects for currently active projects." repeats "Currently active team projects you can get involved in." |
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garyrh |
Also, "How to use this page" doesn't have to be collapsed. |
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