#archiveteam-bs 2015-08-16,Sun

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01:53 🔗 godane so my birthday is tommorrow
01:53 🔗 godane i'm 30 now
01:54 🔗 JesseW Happy nearly integer number of days of life!
01:54 🔗 ripvanwin happy birthday
01:54 🔗 JesseW Shall we get you gigabytes of data? Oh, wait, you already have that... :-)
01:55 🔗 BlueMaxim Mental image of everyone showing up and showering him in hard drives
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01:55 🔗 JesseW (hm, I was just informed that *every* day is an integer number of days of life -- so, let me correct that: Happy nearly integer number of *years* of life!)
01:56 🔗 godane looks like jason's website is down cause of bandwith limit exceeded: http://ascii.textfiles.com/
01:56 🔗 JesseW Hm, I didn't think he had textfiles.com on a server with a bandwidth limit...
01:57 🔗 godane maybe cause of what happen to him in the past
02:00 🔗 JesseW well, there's a google cache of it from the 14th, with no more recent post than the 3rd... so I'm not sure why it would have blown up...
02:02 🔗 dxrt [23:52:56] <bentpins> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10064565
02:02 🔗 dxrt [23:57:52] <@SketchCow> Fuck THAT guy and his manuals
02:02 🔗 dxrt that I think ;)
02:07 🔗 JesseW ah, quite likely
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02:10 🔗 JesseW well, somebody grabbed it with the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20150815114528/http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/4683
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05:55 🔗 godane nov 1989 of mbc newsdesk is uploaded
05:55 🔗 godane i'm half way done with dec 1989
05:55 🔗 godane NOTE: 1989-12-24 and 1989-12-31 have no episodes
05:55 🔗 aschmitz godane: Happy birthday, by the way.
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06:04 🔗 godane thanks
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06:09 🔗 anomie Someone once asked me what the difference is between wget and wpull. I'm very aware that they're different, but is there a comprehensive answer to this question.
06:13 🔗 dan- this page lists the option differences: http://wpull.readthedocs.org/en/latest/differences.html
06:15 🔗 anomie Yeah, but that doesn't tell very much.
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06:25 🔗 anomie I was hoping there was a write-up or something.
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07:23 🔗 godane some bad news for 1990-01-01 episode of mbc newsdesk
07:24 🔗 godane looks like the tracking is stuck in the middle of the video
07:24 🔗 godane you will see what i mean here: http://img.imnews.imbc.com/20dbnews/history/1990/__icsFiles/afieldfile/2007/04/06/VN19902001-00_01054302.jpg
07:24 🔗 godane i think it got better later on
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11:55 🔗 godane so i have jan 1990 of mbc newsdesk downloaded
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14:29 🔗 xmc sets mode: +o swebb
14:29 🔗 swebb sets mode: +o DFJustin
14:29 🔗 swebb sets mode: +o SketchCow
14:29 🔗 swebb sets mode: +o brayden
14:29 🔗 swebb sets mode: +o ersi
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14:54 🔗 bentpins Is there a nice way to tell seesaw to finish what it's doing then stop?
15:18 🔗 xmc yes
15:18 🔗 xmc touch STOP
15:18 🔗 bentpins oh sounds super convenient, cheers
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15:55 🔗 SketchCow Website is back
15:55 🔗 SketchCow Turns out if you drag-drop images into wordpress, it does NOT shrink them properly.
15:55 🔗 SketchCow So I was pushing out..... a lot of bandwidth
15:55 🔗 SketchCow And yes, the blog is on another service within the ISP
15:55 🔗 SketchCow So the two aren't dependent on each other.
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16:20 🔗 godane jan 1990 of mbc newsdesk is fully uploaded now
16:20 🔗 godane i'm going to start feb 1990
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17:47 🔗 SketchCow http://media.ccc.de/browse/conferences/camp2015/camp2015-6939-towards_universal_access_to_all_knowledge_internet_archive.html#video&t=769
17:50 🔗 joepie91 wait wait wait
17:50 🔗 joepie91 SketchCow: brewster kahle talked at camp?
17:51 🔗 joepie91 well fuck.
17:51 🔗 xmc hm, i wonder where he is
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17:55 🔗 swebb sets mode: +o aaaaaaaaa
17:56 🔗 SketchCow Well yeah. Two talks.
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18:06 🔗 joepie91 SketchCow: bah, now it sucks even more that I couldn't be there :(
18:08 🔗 xmc you should have come! i would have given you a high five or something
18:22 🔗 SketchCow I was needed here.
18:23 🔗 xmc i'm talking to joepie91
18:23 🔗 joepie91 xmc: I had no $ :(
18:23 🔗 joepie91 brewster should come to congress in winter also..
18:24 🔗 xmc you never have $, what about €
18:24 🔗 SketchCow He has no money but he's cute as hell
18:24 🔗 SketchCow I think he knows what to do
18:24 🔗 joepie91 xmc: I do have $ at times! but both $ and € are typically in short supply
18:28 🔗 joepie91 LOL
18:29 🔗 joepie91 watching the camp talk
18:29 🔗 joepie91 picture of internet credit union ATM
18:29 🔗 joepie91 ... has a "take my money" picture on the screen
19:30 🔗 ersi joepie91: camp >>>>> congress
19:34 🔗 joepie91 ersi: yes, don't remind me of it D:
19:34 🔗 ersi joepie91: camp >>>>> congress
19:34 🔗 ersi (that said, I'm not there)
19:38 🔗 joepie91 this is why we can't have nice things: http://w3schools.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=53718&p=296033
19:38 🔗 joepie91 "Lol, i use Crypt() on my websites? However i use that one amongst with SHA1, MD5 and 4-5 different custom-made salt functions that will randomly throw the letters and numbers and signs around to make sure they are very well shaken and ready to be used as an password. Also known to be "Encrypted" ;).... still working on it tho, but working at the moment perfectly fine :)"
19:40 🔗 ersi "randomly"
19:40 🔗 ersi suuure
19:40 🔗 joepie91 ersi: that's probably the least bad part of that post
19:40 🔗 joepie91 lol
19:40 🔗 ersi yea..
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19:59 🔗 aaaaaaaaa that post is not even wrong
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20:17 🔗 joepie91 SketchCow: hrm. Slack for Internet Archive stuff? :/
20:17 🔗 SketchCow Yes.
20:18 🔗 SketchCow Yes, yessy yes.
20:18 🔗 SketchCow And who was the person who pushed for it? Me.
20:18 🔗 SketchCow Meeeee, me me me.
20:18 🔗 SketchCow Me.
20:18 🔗 SketchCow Hope you're listening! We went to Slack and I'm the one who did it.
20:19 🔗 SketchCow I suppose if I could take a moment from every other thing in my life, I might ask where you heard we did it.
20:24 🔗 joepie91 SketchCow: you mentioned it in a blog post
20:24 🔗 SketchCow I must have mentioned it some time ago.
20:24 🔗 joepie91 doesn't quite seem to fit into the whole "yay open-source, and startup culture is toxic" narrative..
20:24 🔗 SketchCow Ah.
20:25 🔗 SketchCow So, I have two choices here.
20:25 🔗 SketchCow I mean, I could punch you into the dust on this, and give you a big lesson.
20:25 🔗 SketchCow Or, I can be a buddy and say that "utilizing variables you don't have, this is a very good choice"
20:25 🔗 SketchCow Do you know what we use currently? Guess.
20:25 🔗 SketchCow Do it.
20:25 🔗 joepie91 not a clue.
20:25 🔗 SketchCow Ah.
20:25 🔗 SketchCow Skype.
20:26 🔗 SketchCow We use Skype. We use Skype a lot. We use it all the time. All our stuff, internal and external, on Skype.
20:26 🔗 joepie91 right. but then why not go with any of the approximately five million open-source Slack alternatives as a replacement?
20:26 🔗 joepie91 instead of Slack
20:26 🔗 SketchCow Sigh.
20:26 🔗 joepie91 I mean, "Slack clone" seems to have become the new todo list for devs
20:26 🔗 SketchCow I don't have time for this.
20:26 🔗 SketchCow This isn't the "I don't have time for this" like "shut up, I'm the mom"
20:27 🔗 SketchCow This is, like, I have approximately 70 minutes to shore up space for the next archive team thing, and then drive to Maryland to rescue a lot of paper.
20:27 🔗 SketchCow But maybe, down the like, I'll explain my thinking.
20:27 🔗 SketchCow And you'll probably go "hmmmm."
20:27 🔗 SketchCow Because that's what you do.
20:27 🔗 joepie91 SketchCow: fair enough :P we can discuss it later when/if you're less swamped
20:27 🔗 SketchCow Discuss, no.
20:27 🔗 SketchCow me tell you why, yes
20:28 🔗 joepie91 constructive(!) discussion should always be on the table, even if brief.
20:28 🔗 joepie91 and not necessarily conclusive
20:28 🔗 SketchCow I watch what you do.
20:28 🔗 SketchCow You fight people.
20:28 🔗 SketchCow over ideas.
20:28 🔗 SketchCow Because that's like doing things, to you.
20:28 🔗 SketchCow I'm driving 300 miles because I'm doing things.
20:29 🔗 joepie91 no, I discuss with people when I see decision/statements being made that can have a harmful effect in the longer term
20:29 🔗 joepie91 which is more or less what archiveteam is built on, that same principle
20:29 🔗 joepie91 s/decision/decisions/
20:29 🔗 joepie91 I don't argue for the sake of arguing.
20:31 🔗 SketchCow You really, really do.
20:32 🔗 joepie91 no, I don't. I have a concrete reason for every discussion I have, even if you might not always see that reason.
20:33 🔗 joepie91 the problem is that, by its very nature, you only see the discussions I *do* have
20:33 🔗 joepie91 not the moments where I decide "this is not a useful discussion", and shut my mouth
20:33 🔗 SketchCow Well, try this.
20:33 🔗 SketchCow Internet Archive is now transferred to slack.
20:34 🔗 SketchCow Try not to get tears on your cravat.
20:34 🔗 joepie91 see above.
20:34 🔗 SketchCow No, I think I won't.
20:35 🔗 aaaaaaaaa sets mode: +o yipdw
20:35 🔗 joepie91 I've already explained my concern with it, and you've indicated that you don't have time to explain the rationale right now. that's fine, but sparring without info isn't useful and neither is accusing me of arguing for the sake of arguing
20:36 🔗 joepie91 so as I said, we can discuss this later, when you do have time.
20:36 🔗 joepie91 whenever that might be.
20:37 🔗 SketchCow No, I'm now deciding I don't want to talk about it with you.
20:37 🔗 SketchCow I don't need your approval, love, accomodation, thought process or consideration on it.
20:37 🔗 joepie91 approval? no. thought process? maybe, maybe not
20:38 🔗 joepie91 if the rationale is sound, then it's a very short discussion to have, three lines worth of text
20:38 🔗 joepie91 if not, then there's evidently an outstanding problem of some sort
20:38 🔗 joepie91 (the three lines being "why have you decided X?", "because Y", "oh ok")
20:39 🔗 SketchCow Blorp.
20:39 🔗 joepie91 and given that these kind of tools are kind of my area of expertise, and there are very few valid reasons why Slack couldn't be replaced with an open-source equivalent, I'd say it's probably worth at least briefly discussing it.
20:39 🔗 SketchCow Oh look, literally every other window on my desktop. See ya.
20:39 🔗 joepie91 (and all of those reasons are highly usecase-specific)
20:40 🔗 joepie91 rather than assuming that you're right.
20:40 🔗 joepie91 or that the correct decision was made.
20:40 🔗 joepie91 or however you want to phrase it
20:40 🔗 JesseW joepie91: er, if you aren't going to discuss it now ... it would seem better to ... not talk about it ... now.
20:41 🔗 JesseW If you are motivated to write about it, I think you have a blog (and there is always pastebin)
20:41 🔗 joepie91 JesseW: yeah, that's what I suggested. but if Jason is just going to respond to it, then there's no reason for me not to
20:41 🔗 joepie91 (suggested twice, I might add)
20:41 🔗 JesseW AFAICT, Jason's responses have been, saying, repeatedly, "I don't want to talk about this with you".
20:41 🔗 joepie91 JesseW: and I prefer real-time discussions over blog posts for these kind of matters - blog posts and such almost inevitably turn out one-sided
20:42 🔗 joepie91 yes, so at this point I'm simply discussing whether that is the ideal approach here
20:42 🔗 joepie91 (and it's not)
20:42 🔗 SketchCow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZHdYOBRpsk
20:42 🔗 SketchCow Here you go, everyone! 1.5 hours of productive work music.
20:42 🔗 garyrh HUGS AND KISSES ALL AROUND.
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20:45 🔗 joepie91 JesseW: the Internet Archive has repeatedly indicated, in various forms, that open-source tools are preferable and that they realize the dangers of proprietary systems. Jason has personally expressed his dislike of startup culture and its negative consequences multiple times, and Slack very much fits into both the "proprietary" and "startup culture" categories, so at the very least it's a bit of an odd choice.
20:45 🔗 joepie91 JesseW: which should be a relevant concern to everybody involved in IA, either directly or indirectly, exactly because of those consequences
20:47 🔗 joepie91 (and let's face it - the speciality of IA lies in archiving, not necessarily in technology that is not directly related to that, and this is also visible in some other tool choices)
20:48 🔗 joepie91 (which is understandable, but makes critical input even more important)
20:48 🔗 JesseW and if you wanted to write that (even at further length) as a one-sided blog post, that would seem (somewhat) useful. Trying to pressure those of us currently on this channel into having a multi-sided *discussion* about it, right now, after specific requests not to -- seems just rude, and not particularly useful.
20:49 🔗 joepie91 JesseW: I didn't push for a discussion *now*. I pushed for a discussion later, when Jason had time.
20:49 🔗 joepie91 JesseW: from that point in, I was simply responding to the "not going to happen" responses
20:50 🔗 joepie91 and if a later discussion at his convenience is not a possibility, then here you go, I'll simply output some of the points here
20:50 🔗 joepie91 so that there's a record of them somewhere, where somebody can look them up, in a not-necessarily-one-sided manner
20:50 🔗 JesseW ok, I'm done with this conversation, too.
20:52 🔗 SketchCow Hi, everyone, just visting from the other, productive, windows
20:52 🔗 joepie91 SketchCow: there's no need to keep sneering about it.
20:52 🔗 joepie91 the discussion is only unproductive because you're not giving serious input.
20:53 🔗 SketchCow You....
20:53 🔗 SketchCow You do know you're being a Sea Lion, right?
20:53 🔗 SketchCow I mean, do you feel it?
20:53 🔗 SketchCow It is in you?
20:54 🔗 joepie91 and that's exactly what I mean.
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22:31 🔗 yipdw "Failed to start reboot.target: Connection timed out"
22:31 🔗 yipdw thx systemd
22:32 🔗 yipdw How To Break Ubuntu Vivid With This One Cool Trick
22:37 🔗 yipdw said cool trick is "run apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade immediately after fresh install"
22:39 🔗 anomie 22:31 <@yipdw> "Failed to start reboot.target: Connection timed out"
22:39 🔗 anomie How… wat?
22:39 🔗 anomie What is that?
22:39 🔗 yipdw anomie: there's something wrong with the policykit-1 package postinst that breaks systemd
22:39 🔗 yipdw it has been patched a few times but regressions still show up sometimes
22:40 🔗 yipdw anyway *supposedly* if you install policykit-1 *FIRST*, reboot, and then do everything else you avoid this
22:40 🔗 anomie Isn't vivid in a post-release state? What the fuck?
22:40 🔗 yipdw it is but it's not like release status means fuckall to any software company anymore
22:47 🔗 yipdw cool, that workaround does indeed seem to work
22:48 🔗 anomie But, but… muh stability!
22:48 🔗 anomie I wonder if Debian is any better…
22:49 🔗 anomie I heard Minix is pretty stable, but it doesn't seem to be good at much else AFAIK.
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22:58 🔗 yipdw there's stability and then there's stability
22:59 🔗 yipdw I'm not changing the build platform just because of an install bug
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