#archiveteam-bs 2020-06-23,Tue

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01:17 🔗 arkiver yeah I'm thinking of a project for the clips
01:17 🔗 arkiver does anyone have lists or estimates?
01:20 🔗 arkiver I see a ton of backlog, did I miss anything important?
01:27 🔗 jodizzle arkiver: I think it's mostly wiki edit notices from purplebot for the past few days in this channel
01:27 🔗 jodizzle That and JAA talking about Tigris
01:29 🔗 arkiver nice
01:29 🔗 arkiver thanks jodizzle
01:34 🔗 JAA sets mode: +o arkiver
01:34 🔗 JAA Yep, still looking into that and hoping they'll fix the CVS server.
01:35 🔗 Ryz Hmm...is there anything that needs attention overall in ArchiveTeam? It's about a week until the end of 2020 June s:
01:36 🔗 Ryz I know there's that Microsoft coding website that's shutting down (yet didn't gave an exact date of when in this month)...
01:36 🔗 arkiver Ryz: we could use some workers on the bitbucket project :)
01:36 🔗 arkiver I'll make an announcement tomorrow as well regarding bitbucket
01:36 🔗 Ryz *doesn't have machinery capable of such a task* oo;
01:38 🔗 arkiver no problem :P
01:38 🔗 JAA https://developer.arm.com/docs still needs to be archived. The AB job didn't get far due to some cookie bullshit (switching to an "edit mode", which then causes every page to redirect to a login form).
01:38 🔗 Ryz I'm mainly so focused and specialized with #archivebot <#>;
01:39 🔗 Ryz I did some hunting for HTML parsers (partial and full) for JAA yesterday although it's a mixed bag...
01:39 🔗 JAA Well, you did ask about AT in general. :-P
01:40 🔗 Ryz I mean considering I would want to see some activity happening, most of the stuff is inactive aside from a few bright spots (and one very huge bright as a sun as ArchiveBot)
01:41 🔗 JAA Ryz: How about doing some verification that we grabbed all of TranceFix.nl? You know, clicking around, going to deep pagination, etc.
01:42 🔗 Ryz Aside from unfortunately the new posts probably ever since the archive had started at the time, sure I'll try to poke around
01:44 🔗 Ryz Hmm... I have an idea~
01:45 🔗 Ryz Okay, the https://www.trancefix.nl/ job started running on 2020 May 06; I can just try and scoop up all of the new and bumped topics of that forum and run 'em in "!a <"
01:45 🔗 Ryz Or "!ao <"
01:51 🔗 Ryz Thoughts JAA?
01:54 🔗 Ryz Hmm, in the future, it could be a Python script to auto-collect topics and the respective pagination
01:59 🔗 JAA Ryz: Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. We did grab some of those threads for various reasons, but definitely not everything.
01:59 🔗 JAA !ao < but with a dummy in front to get rid of the session IDs.
02:00 🔗 JAA https://www.trancefix.nl/activity.php should be useful for this, but no idea how far back it goes.
02:01 🔗 JAA Yeah, just a month it seems.
02:01 🔗 Ryz Clicked 30 times~
02:02 🔗 Ryz A dummy? Do I have to apply it to all of the URLs?
02:03 🔗 JAA No, just one at the beginning and set the concurrency to 1 at the start.
02:06 🔗 Ryz The first one is https://www.trancefix.nl/showthread.php?358454-Closing-of-TranceFix-nl - so it'll be https://www.trancefix.nl/showthread.php?358454-Closing-of-TranceFix-nl?archiveteam ?
02:08 🔗 Ryz Oh, BTW, has the remaining targeted links been retried in a separate job?
02:08 🔗 JAA No, just add a trancefix.nl/forum.php?archiveteam I think.
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02:09 🔗 Ryz Ah, okay~
02:09 🔗 Ryz Since it'll be "!ao <" I'll have to grab the individual pages of the topic threads correct?
02:09 🔗 JAA There were remaining onsite URLs?
02:09 🔗 JAA Correct
02:10 🔗 Ryz Mm, it's kinda fortunate since it's dying down, I don't have to have my progress grind to a bump on fetching those extra pagination
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02:26 🔗 JAA Ryz: If you have a list of threads, I can write a quick script to get the page counts and generate all the page URLs.
02:27 🔗 JAA I.e. a list of all threads that have received a reply since 6 May.
02:27 🔗 Ryz Welp, I was almost finished, or rather, halfway finished through the biggest and thickest one being https://www.trancefix.nl/forumdisplay.php?227-Music-Related-Discussion
02:27 🔗 Ryz Lemme give you that list
02:29 🔗 Ryz Here JAA: https://transfer.notkiska.pw/AXw59/TranceFix-mine-out-the-thread-pagination
02:33 🔗 Ryz Wish you offered that earlier, because I'm more or less stretched <#>;
02:34 🔗 JAA What does that list cover exactly? It's way too short to be everything.
02:35 🔗 Ryz I said I was almost done gathering all of the new topics >>;
02:35 🔗 Ryz This is the rest of it
02:35 🔗 JAA Or is that just the multi-page threads you didn't already do?
02:35 🔗 Ryz Yeah, that, I did the multi-page threads myself with some tools <#>;
02:35 🔗 JAA Right
02:35 🔗 Ryz Notepad++ is a major blessing
02:36 🔗 JAA grep :-)
02:46 🔗 JAA Ryz: https://transfer.notkiska.pw/jdyMA/trancefix-updated-threads-pages
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02:46 🔗 JAA And if you want to learn this magic: tr -d '\r' <TranceFix-mine-out-the-thread-pagination | while read -r url; do declare -i lastpage=$(curl-ua firefox -s "${url}" | grep -Po '<span class="first_last"><a href="\K[^"]+' | uniq | head -1 | sed 's,&amp;s=[0-9a-f]\+$,,' | grep -Po '/page\K\d+$'); for (( i = 2 ; i <= $lastpage ; ++i )); do echo "${url}/page${i}"; done; done
02:47 🔗 JAA (curl-ua is from my little-things.)
02:47 🔗 Ryz Huh, doesn't have the first page, time to re-add that~
02:47 🔗 JAA Yes, I only did the later pages. You can just combine it with your list.
02:50 🔗 Ryz Time to run the latest threads~
03:01 🔗 OrIdow6 JAA: On developer.arm.com: if the current run really is unfixably stuck, you may as well ignore the site itself and let it finish, so that the log gets uploaded and the rest of us can look at it
03:01 🔗 JAA OrIdow6: I was hoping the cookie might have a short expiration time, but yeah, probably not.
03:02 🔗 OrIdow6 arkiver: I'm looking at Mixer - it's sort of hard to estimate b/c users with video saved seem to be very sparse, but I'll hopefully have something soon
03:19 🔗 lennier1 Are you able to get a list of users OrIdow6? tech234a mentioned rate limiting in the API. Even if they don't have clips I figure we should save the user profiles.
03:20 🔗 lennier1 I'm not surprised that most people watched but never streamed.
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03:38 🔗 OrIdow6 lennier1: There's an API that maps sequential "channel" IDs to info about them, so that's effectively a list; there are about 20 million of them
03:38 🔗 OrIdow6 By the way, do you know the difference between users and channels; and clips, vod, and recordings?
03:39 🔗 OrIdow6 I found an API endpoint that lists all? "recordings" that I'll look at in a bit
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03:41 🔗 lennier1 A clip is a short segment of a broadcast that any user can save, and is kept indefinitely. A VOD is a replay of an entire stream--these are regularly purged.
03:42 🔗 lennier1 This page has a good explanation of VODs and how long they're kept for various accounts. https://watchbeam.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/209662033-Past-Streams-VoDs-
03:43 🔗 lennier1 Not really familiar with "recording' as a term--maybe includes both clips and VODs?
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03:46 🔗 tech234a The Mixer API reports that there are 1035395 total saved stream recordings (not clips), though I'm not sure how useful that info is
03:46 🔗 tech234a Perhaps this could be used to enumerate channels that have streamed recently?
03:48 🔗 OrIdow6 Right now, I'm just concerned with getting an estimate
03:54 🔗 lennier1 I don't know if there's difference between channel and user. Maybe channel just refers to a user's stream? Are user IDs and channel IDs referenced by the API the same? https://dev.mixer.com/rest/index.html
04:17 🔗 OrIdow6 Very rough lower bound on Mixer: 3.6 PiB
04:18 🔗 OrIdow6 arkiver
04:22 🔗 OrIdow6 lennier1: It appears they are the same
04:22 🔗 OrIdow6 The IDs
04:23 🔗 lennier1 Thanks, that makes sense to me.
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04:37 🔗 kiska Yeah......
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04:59 🔗 OrIdow6 Next step is presumably to collect enough data to see what filtering on popularity etc. would do to that number
05:05 🔗 lennier1 Yeah, something like follower count could give you an idea of how popular a streamer is (though presumably the more popular channels have more clips).
05:05 🔗 lennier1 Is the 3.6 PiB for clips only?
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05:13 🔗 OrIdow6 lennier1: Just "VOD", using the /recordings endpoint
05:14 🔗 OrIdow6 Randomly chose 30 pages, for each VOD in the page, I multiplied the lowest listed bitrate by the duration
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05:19 🔗 OrIdow6 I couldn't find a way to list all clips
05:19 🔗 OrIdow6 Though I didn't look too hard after coming up with that first total
05:21 🔗 lennier1 What sort of durations are there? Clips seem to be 1m3s or less. VODs can be several hours.
05:22 🔗 lennier1 GET /clips/channels/{channelId}
05:22 🔗 lennier1 Returns all clips for the channel.
05:22 🔗 OrIdow6 I know about that endpoint
05:23 🔗 OrIdow6 But it is near useless unless you have a good sample of channels as well
05:23 🔗 OrIdow6 Again, I'm not enumerating them now, just estimating
05:26 🔗 lennier1 Right, but maybe a using that endpoint for a random sample of channel ids. Not sure how many you'd need to do to get a reasonable estimate.
05:27 🔗 OrIdow6 2 hours ago or so, I tried listing ~120 channels, and none had "VOD" recordings, so I imagine a similar ratio applies here
05:28 🔗 kiska What a small sitemap: https://mixer.com/sitemap.xml
05:28 🔗 OrIdow6 "users with video saved seem to be very sparse"
05:29 🔗 OrIdow6 kiska: I like how they have a user's page listed as the last one
05:30 🔗 kiska Huh this is what I see https://server8.kiska.pw/uploads/d67ee29a52e1890f/image.png
05:30 🔗 kiska Oh they have an API...
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05:31 🔗 OrIdow6 That's what I mean; https://mixer.com/Ninja is an individual user (albeit apparently a popular one)
05:32 🔗 lennier1 The most popular one.
05:32 🔗 lennier1 https://socialblade.com/mixer/top/500/most-followers
05:33 🔗 lennier1 Most popular Mixer topic right now--Mixer closing. :)
05:34 🔗 tech234a Yeah and it's streamers trying to figure out where to take their audience
05:34 🔗 Datechnom everyone over to twitch!
05:34 🔗 Datechnom lol
05:34 🔗 kiska Apparently there is this endpoint https://mixer.com/users but it doesn't load for me
05:34 🔗 tech234a yeah, though Mixer is partnering with Facebook Gaming
05:35 🔗 lennier1 There might be more users with clips since those stick around. For regular users, VODs get deleted after 14 days.
05:35 🔗 OrIdow6 kiska: /api/v1/users
05:36 🔗 tech234a "no such endpoint"
05:36 🔗 kiska I assume I'll need to not run that in Chrome :D
05:36 🔗 kiska Yeah I get 404 on that endpoint :D
05:36 🔗 kiska So maybe I need to auth with it?
05:36 🔗 tech234a Most of the APIs work fine in Chrome btw
05:36 🔗 tech234a Have you seen https://dev.mixer.com/rest/index.html?
05:37 🔗 OrIdow6 I don't think there is a bare /users endpoint
05:37 🔗 lennier1 I'm trying out the API in Firefox now.
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05:37 🔗 tech234a Most Mixer APIs don't require authentication (unless they have the lock icon in the docs)
05:37 🔗 OrIdow6 tech234a: Yes, that's what I've been going off here
05:38 🔗 lennier1 Get numerical ID from user name (CaptainCripp1e): https://mixer.com/api/v1/channels/CaptainCripp1e?fields=id
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05:38 🔗 tech234a Good to know
05:38 🔗 lennier1 Then something like: https://mixer.com/api/v1/channels/5739806
05:39 🔗 tech234a Some URLs grabbed from Common Crawl/Internet Archive https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/cv4PgJGM/mixer.com.txt
05:40 🔗 lennier1 Clips for that channel: https://mixer.com/api/v1/clips/channels/5739806
05:40 🔗 tech234a Might not have gotten everything that's in Common Crawl because I was getting some errors, not sure if it was on my end or Common Crawl's end
05:40 🔗 OrIdow6 I already checked the CDX server
05:41 🔗 OrIdow6 The problem with that is that it's not a random sample in any case
05:41 🔗 tech234a Some URLs from when it was Beam, useful for finding very old users https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/OtNcOmiz/beam.pro.txt
05:41 🔗 tech234a yeah its not very random
05:41 🔗 OrIdow6 So getting information based on that list will be biased to whatever the IA's crawl configuration picks up
05:45 🔗 OrIdow6 What I'll probably do now (or later) is just choose random numerical IDs and see what's at them
05:46 🔗 tech234a Some kind of live API: https://dev.mixer.com/reference/constellation/events/live
05:46 🔗 tech234a Unsure if it requires specific channels to be specified
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06:07 🔗 lennier1 Actually, I guess clips do expire after 90 days. That's different than Twitch. https://watchbeam.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005089311-Clips-FAQ-
06:08 🔗 lennier1 Length is 5 seconds to 300 seconds.
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06:58 🔗 tech234a Weird
06:59 🔗 tech234a That’s very different from Twitch
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09:13 🔗 godane SketchCow: good news i got a magazine for scanning called buzzworm magazine
09:14 🔗 godane you guys don't have it and it doesn't look like its been digitize anywhere
09:14 🔗 godane its a enviromental journal magazine
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09:46 🔗 OrIdow6 A tip to you all: don't leave a Mixer tab open for a long time; it was eating ~5 GB of memory for me
10:46 🔗 arkiver OrIdow6: thank you!
10:46 🔗 arkiver let's make a channel
10:46 🔗 arkiver I'd say on hackint
10:51 🔗 OrIdow6 arkiver: Thanks, though I'm not exactly the bearer of good news with that size estimate, haha
10:53 🔗 OrIdow6 And yes, Hackint has become the norm these days
10:57 🔗 arkiver OrIdow6: I'm thinking we might only get the clips that users explicitly saved
10:58 🔗 arkiver The automatically recorded data that is removed anyway after a few days is probably not as important
10:59 🔗 OrIdow6 Per https://watchbeam.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360005089311-Clips-FAQ- , explicitly saved clips get removed, too
11:00 🔗 arkiver ah
11:00 🔗 arkiver is there anything that would be permanent?
11:00 🔗 OrIdow6 https://watchbeam.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/209662033-Past-Streams-VoDs- - "Some channels (such as official esports and event channels) have a longer [infinite?] retention limit due to business reasons"
11:01 🔗 OrIdow6 "longer" than 180 days, in any case
11:02 🔗 OrIdow6 If there aren't too many clips, I can see it useful to save all of them, anyhow, as they're effectively the user-curated "best" of the site, albeit only the last 90 days of the site
11:05 🔗 OrIdow6 Sort of a sample of what it was like
11:12 🔗 OrIdow6 https://github.com/mixer - should probably be saved, too
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11:18 🔗 OrIdow6 And yet "curl "https://mixer.com/api/v2/vods/channels/19088261" | jq .[].expirationDate" gives "expirationDate"s in 2025
11:19 🔗 OrIdow6 (As far as I can tell, the /v2/ API is not publicly documented)
11:20 🔗 JAA OrIdow6: Ryz already threw the GitHub org into ArchiveBot.
11:21 🔗 OrIdow6 Oh, thanks to Ryz then
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12:24 🔗 HCross arkiver: #mixdown on hackint?
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12:51 🔗 arkiver HCross: lets do that
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13:49 🔗 qw3rty_ @jodizzle Thanks for the ACM download links. Sadly they blocked my IP after 100 files.
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17:26 🔗 jodizzle qw3rty_: Yeah, figured that would happen. I think if we wanted to get all of them, the best way would be to do it with mips, but my understanding is that that machine doesn't exist anymore.
17:27 🔗 jodizzle One thing to note is that you can get the abstract of each paper by replacing /pdf/ with /abs/
17:28 🔗 jodizzle You can also sometimes get HTML versions by replacing /pdf/ with /fullHtml/ (https://dl.acm.org/doi/fullHtml/10.1145/3363499) though I think that's much rarer.
17:30 🔗 jodizzle But yeah, feel free to share the list with anyone in case they have the tools to deal with. I also have a CSV that maps paper titles to links if anyone wanted to pick and choose.
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18:34 🔗 lennier1 I occasionally read Slate Star Codex. Didn't realize his identity was pressing national news. Some relevent links:
18:34 🔗 lennier1 https://sscpodcast.libsyn.com/
18:34 🔗 lennier1 https://twitter.com/slatestarcodex
18:35 🔗 lennier1 https://www.reddit.com/r/slatestarcodex/
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21:26 🔗 godane so i'm at 1963k items now
21:27 🔗 godane i have uploaded 46k items so far this month
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