#archiveteam-bs 2012-10-23,Tue

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Time Nickname Message
01:30 🔗 dashcloud so, shipping boxes with USPS- what should I know about the options? should I use flat rate boxes instead of normal shipping cartons?
01:55 🔗 chronomex frb is usually nice and simple
01:56 🔗 dashcloud frb?
01:56 🔗 chronomex flatratebox
02:03 🔗 godane i have "The Virtual Revolution" series from bbc now
02:09 🔗 Sue nooo
02:09 🔗 Sue bye bye mail
03:47 🔗 joepie91 SketchCow: I have a Dutch translation of I Chose Freedom (some really old book) that I am currently scanning - the translation was made in 1948 so it's technically not public domain yet - what are the possibilities for placing it on the internet archive, if any?
03:47 🔗 joepie91 it seems there are no PDFs or anything for it *anywhere*
03:47 🔗 joepie91 (we have like a 70 year after death period for public domain)
03:52 🔗 balrog- joepie91: afaict usually stuff like that gets blacked out
03:52 🔗 balrog- was looking around today and could only find newer stuff that was in DAISY format with encryption (requires a key only accessible to the blind)
03:52 🔗 balrog- well, the PDFs and other files were listed if you looked, just not available to download
03:53 🔗 joepie91 okay, but I can upload so that it's archived still, or...?
03:54 🔗 joepie91 I mean, it doesn't have to be immediately accessible
03:54 🔗 joepie91 as long as it's stored somewhere :P
04:00 🔗 joepie91 context: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Kravchenko_(defector)
04:02 🔗 joepie91 Page 30 finished, press enter to continue with next page...
04:02 🔗 joepie91 >.>
04:09 🔗 joepie91 balrog-: ^?
04:09 🔗 joepie91 :P
04:11 🔗 balrog- my understanding is that you upload and then get it "blacked out"
04:17 🔗 Lord_Nigh balrog-: once i'm done with these scans can you help me figure out how to appropriately chop em up etc?
04:18 🔗 Lord_Nigh the page borders for each page have to be removed
04:18 🔗 Lord_Nigh and the pages split in two down the middle
04:18 🔗 Lord_Nigh probably first split then debordered
04:18 🔗 Lord_Nigh and finally level adjust and mash to 16-level greyscale
04:18 🔗 Lord_Nigh though the last might not be needed after level adjust
04:19 🔗 balrog- Lord_Nigh: sure
04:56 🔗 DFJustin joepie91: basically just upload it and if someone bitches it will get blacked out, but they'll keep the copy
04:56 🔗 DFJustin but for stuff like what you described probably no one will ever care
04:57 🔗 joepie91 okay :P
04:57 🔗 joepie91 well
04:57 🔗 joepie91 lol
04:57 🔗 joepie91 yeah
04:58 🔗 * joepie91 is using a harddrive as weight to keep the book against the glass plate
05:06 🔗 joepie91 also, this is the kind of scan I'm making now: http://aarnist.cryto.net:81/vrijheid2_0013.png
05:07 🔗 joepie91 and yes, the book really is printed that way :P
05:10 🔗 DFJustin you'll want to split each scan into two pages before uploading
05:11 🔗 joepie91 of course :)
05:11 🔗 joepie91 this is just faster to scan
05:11 🔗 DFJustin yep been down that road :)
05:49 🔗 joepie91 DFJustin: say one had access to a collection of arbitrary electriconic components, as well as a pile of old scanners
05:49 🔗 joepie91 how would one produce a fully automated book scanner?
05:50 🔗 joepie91 er
05:50 🔗 joepie91 electronic *
05:50 🔗 joepie91 as in, are there any guides on this topic? :P
05:50 🔗 joepie91 (I do in fact have access to a pile of scanners and electronic components)
05:51 🔗 DFJustin generally the diy designs use cameras rather than scanners
05:51 🔗 DFJustin http://www.diybookscanner.org/
05:52 🔗 joepie91 alright, problem is I don't have high resolution cameras
05:53 🔗 joepie91 and money is a constraint for me :/
05:55 🔗 DFJustin may still be worth a poke around the forums
05:59 🔗 joepie91 DFJustin: you don't happen to know how zero edge scanners work?
05:59 🔗 joepie91 by any chance?
05:59 🔗 joepie91 because if I can figure that out, I have an idea
06:03 🔗 DFJustin nope
06:04 🔗 joepie91 my idea is two glass plates placed in a 90 degrees angle from each other
06:04 🔗 joepie91 and some kind of clamp mechanism to automatically place a book on there
06:04 🔗 joepie91 the book would be facing down, with zero edge scanners under both glass plates
06:05 🔗 joepie91 to flip the page, mechanism could tilt back the book and somehow flip the page, then tilt back onto the glass plates
06:05 🔗 joepie91 that should be reasonably fast while maintaining the high quality of a good flatbed scanner, not damage the spine
06:05 🔗 joepie91 and it should be fully automated
06:05 🔗 joepie91 need to figure out the specifics though
06:06 🔗 joepie91 may also use a metal rod to let the spine rest on, but that would require a more complicated mechanism to tilt it back, since the page can't be turned if there's a metal spine inbetween the pages
06:06 🔗 joepie91 er
06:06 🔗 joepie91 metal rod*
06:09 🔗 joepie91 I mean, if it's fully automated, it doesn't matter that the flatbed scanners are slow
06:09 🔗 joepie91 hell, I could built multiple and run them in parallel :P
08:39 🔗 joepie91 oh shit
08:39 🔗 joepie91 just found scantailor
08:39 🔗 joepie91 I think I'm in love
08:39 🔗 joepie91 ll
08:39 🔗 joepie91 lol *
08:47 🔗 chronomex mmmmm
08:47 🔗 chronomex also, unpaper
08:47 🔗 chronomex http://unpaper.berlios.de/
08:48 🔗 chronomex scantailor seems much spiffier though
08:52 🔗 SmileyG how *do* you turn the pages automatically?
08:53 🔗 chronomex I think it's a semimanual process
08:53 🔗 SmileyG o
08:53 🔗 SmileyG ffs
08:53 🔗 SmileyG why do people think if they ring someone and they don't answer, that ringing back again and again and again will get htem anywhere?
08:53 🔗 SmileyG 5th time
08:55 🔗 chronomex well, I do that a lot
08:55 🔗 chronomex sometimes people can't get to their phones in time, or maybe they won't hear it
08:55 🔗 chronomex my father for example is a prime example of the latter
08:55 🔗 chronomex I usually ring a second time for urgent calls if no answer, three if it's important as well as urgent
09:16 🔗 joepie91 SmileyG: in the context of the idea I spammed above?
09:22 🔗 joepie91 oh shit, the output from scantailor seems perfect
09:22 🔗 joepie91 wow.
09:25 🔗 chronomex this man is a pro: http://imgur.com/DB3IO
09:27 🔗 joepie91 hah
10:06 🔗 joepie91 input: http://aarnist.cryto.net:81/vrijheid2_0007.png output: http://imgur.com/a/CZ4VZ
10:06 🔗 joepie91 I am impressed.
10:28 🔗 joepie91 chronomex, DFJustin, SmileyG, underscor, perfect book scanner design: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlOQuuLYavY
10:28 🔗 joepie91 fully automated
10:29 🔗 joepie91 also seems reasonably possible to self-produce one of those at low cost
10:36 🔗 * SmileyG wibbles
10:42 🔗 SmileyG http://what-if.xkcd.com/17/
11:03 🔗 joepie91 well there we go
11:03 🔗 joepie91 processing the entire book now
11:03 🔗 joepie91 :)
11:47 🔗 joepie91 hey, um, does anyone here have actual experience with camera-based book scanners?
11:47 🔗 joepie91 SmileyG, underscor, SketchCow, DFJustin, ?
11:48 🔗 joepie91 if any of you does, do you think a camera with this kind of image quality would be capable of taking usable pictures of books under proper lighting? http://www.dealextreme.com/customerphotos/quarantined/201105/42179-a0ce62af-6a11-41f0-ac4e-72ac9b184ed5.jpg
11:52 🔗 SmileyG I have no clue, but I'd be doubtful of that camera in perticular.
11:52 🔗 joepie91 why is that? :P
11:54 🔗 SmileyG small sensor, cheap camera
11:54 🔗 SmileyG I have no clue how good any "webcam" type cameras are focusing on text...
11:59 🔗 joepie91 found one that I think will suffice
11:59 🔗 joepie91 http://dx.com/p/compact-1-3mp-pc-usb-webcam-with-built-in-microphone-black-51874
11:59 🔗 joepie91 but no sample pictures, annoyingly
11:59 🔗 joepie91 one review even says it has autofocus but I sort of doubt that
11:59 🔗 joepie91 although not impossible
11:59 🔗 joepie91 but judging from the video this isn't the same crappy sensor that's in 99% of the cheap webcams
12:01 🔗 joepie91 what I really want is this one: http://dx.com/p/stickman-2mp-pc-usb-2-0-webcam-14990?item=2
12:01 🔗 joepie91 but it's not manufactured anymore :(
12:01 🔗 joepie91 I had one but I broke it - if you focused it correctly, the image was ridiculously sharp
12:34 🔗 joepie91 SmileyG: finished postprocessing!
12:34 🔗 joepie91 http://aarnist.cryto.net:81/vrijheid2.pdf :D
12:34 🔗 joepie91 my first scanned book lol
12:36 🔗 joepie91 not the final version, still missing 2 pages
13:45 🔗 SketchCow Why hello.
13:46 🔗 SketchCow I have a book scanner right here in my room.
14:17 🔗 balrog- SketchCow: nice :)
14:24 🔗 SketchCow One of these: http://diybookscanner.org/
14:28 🔗 balrog- yeah I've seen them
14:28 🔗 balrog- would like to have one, though auto page-turning would be nice
14:29 🔗 SketchCow Auto page turning scanners require a person to be there to supervise
14:31 🔗 balrog- does google have people supervising all their scanners?
14:35 🔗 SmileyG Not like they can't afford them?
14:36 🔗 SketchCow Yes
14:36 🔗 SketchCow Also, Google Scanners are by hand, not auto-page-turners.
14:36 🔗 C-Keen you don't want the machine wreck your valuable books
14:41 🔗 SketchCow http://www.buzzfeed.com/reyhan/the-hidden-hands-scanning-the-worlds-knowledge-fo
14:43 🔗 balrog- hm, ok...
14:45 🔗 SketchCow http://archive.org/details/americanartposters1890s
14:45 🔗 SketchCow I'm looking at porting an online collection into the archive.
14:45 🔗 SketchCow Without losing their metadata.
16:01 🔗 godane FUCK SOLAR FLARES
16:03 🔗 godane WE MUST BLOW UP THE SUN TO SAVE THE INTERNET
16:21 🔗 SketchCow On it
16:21 🔗 SketchCow for each in 00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42
16:21 🔗 SketchCow All my best scripts start like that
16:52 🔗 underscor SketchCow: for each in `seq -w 0 42`
16:53 🔗 underscor the w does consistent width
16:53 🔗 underscor (so you get 00 instead of 0)
16:55 🔗 SketchCow yawn
16:55 🔗 SketchCow There's a joy factor here.
16:56 🔗 SketchCow Also, seq ain't everywhere, kid.
16:56 🔗 SketchCow 6.0-RELEASE FreeBSD
16:56 🔗 SketchCow seq
16:56 🔗 SketchCow seq: Command not found.
17:18 🔗 underscor SketchCow: Oh, sorry, the bsd userland version is jot
17:32 🔗 * Aranje grins
17:35 🔗 SketchCow Hmmm.
17:35 🔗 SketchCow So you're saying if I do it my way, it just works
17:36 🔗 SketchCow But your attempt to save 80 characters adds a new set of if statements to verify the existence of seq or jot
17:36 🔗 SketchCow hmmmm
18:25 🔗 Aranje fuck yeah, ubuntu 12.10 seems to have only broken one thing
18:25 🔗 Aranje excellent
19:40 🔗 soultcer SketchCow: If you have bash you can do {00..42}}
19:40 🔗 SketchCow Agreed.
19:40 🔗 SketchCow THAT I always forget to do.
19:43 🔗 swebb I'm an old tcsh guy, so my foreach looks look like 'foreach file in (blah[1234][0123456789])'
19:49 🔗 SmileyG for each {00..42
19:49 🔗 SmileyG }
19:50 🔗 SmileyG oh wait soultcer already said it, hahaha
19:50 🔗 SmileyG bash understands sequences, even with variable gaps
19:50 🔗 SketchCow for each in {00..69} ; do wget http://archive.org/download/archiveteam-picplz-$each/000000$each.tar; done
19:51 🔗 SmileyG nice
19:51 🔗 SketchCow See, I used your silly thing to download picplz
19:51 🔗 SmileyG :D
19:51 🔗 SmileyG wget .... &
19:51 🔗 SmileyG DOWNLOAD ALL THE THINGS
19:51 🔗 SketchCow ha ha, if you're an idiot
19:51 🔗 SmileyG i think that'd work, :D
19:52 🔗 SketchCow No, TECHNICALLY a torrent would work, but I'm inside the network, I'm maxing this machine as it is.
19:52 🔗 SmileyG ah :)
19:52 🔗 SmileyG then my way would be slightly bad :D
19:53 🔗 SketchCow Anyway, as it is, this machine is fucking WHALING OUT
19:54 🔗 SmileyG SketchCow: HMMMM
19:54 🔗 SmileyG IOWAIT thru the roof?
19:55 🔗 * SmileyG is unsure if bsd has teh same terrible CFQ schedular as is default in linux.
19:55 🔗 SmileyG It hates the idea of you writing a large file in one go
19:55 🔗 SmileyG and goes "fuck it, I'll make everything wait for you!"
19:56 🔗 SketchCow Dude, you do realize I'm on a machine I control and not some lame-ass sloppy-hundreds university machine I'm fighting 30 instances of Dwarf Fortress for domination of, right?
19:56 🔗 SmileyG SketchCow: :D
19:56 🔗 SmileyG dwarffortress is awesome tho :P
19:56 🔗 SmileyG I just mean I dunno what the default schedular is on freeBSD.
19:57 🔗 SketchCow The fact is, it's a virtual instance and it has the pros and cons of that. Pro is that I get 20tb of space, but con is right now, like this week, I'm rushing to get stuff into Wayback and that means basically downloading something like 12 terabytes of data, running processing on it, and shoving it back in.
19:57 🔗 SketchCow that's just murdering this machine, and any attempts to slightly improve things is just tweaker hob-nob bullshit I have to time for.
19:58 🔗 SketchCow wget *; megawarc convert *;shove all that shit back into archive.org *
19:58 🔗 SmileyG yeah, ouch
19:58 🔗 SmileyG unless you've got some crazy ass raid array for storage, thats gonna take awhile for any machine
19:58 🔗 SmileyG then theres the "you want to work on HOW MUCH DATA AT ONCE?!" issue....
19:59 🔗 SketchCow Not an issue to me.
19:59 🔗 SketchCow Just Solve The Problem and the DEFCON documentary are my two big things right now.
20:00 🔗 SketchCow http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151130542264527&set=a.37023524526.46968.706829526&type=1&theater&notif_t=like
21:26 🔗 S[h]O[r]T i hate to ask again since i did once before but i still dont really understand what just solve the problem is
21:26 🔗 S[h]O[r]T last time i learned it basically needed programmers
21:26 🔗 S[h]O[r]T so im sort of out of being any help
21:26 🔗 S[h]O[r]T but i read the wiki and just dont understand what its about
21:26 🔗 S[h]O[r]T not sure if im retarded
21:28 🔗 S[h]O[r]T i guess the better question is, what needs to be done. and how can people who arent master programmers help
21:28 🔗 SketchCow Go to #justsolve
22:35 🔗 dashcloud so, I saw this, and thought you guys might like it: http://davidhunt.ie/wp/?p=232 (What to do when gigabit ethernet just isn't cutting it anymore- a cheap solution actually)
22:37 🔗 dashcloud Infiniband at home!

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