[00:37] ex-parrot: doing tests [00:37] first have to get tcp/ip working :P [00:37] I also haven't used SheepShaver in about a million years [00:37] it works better than nothing [00:37] sucks compared to a real Mac [00:37] is the AOL app built for 68k or PPC only? [00:37] if need be I probably can get a G4 doing stuff [00:38] depends on how old [00:38] because there's always BasiliskII as well [00:38] and mini vmac [00:38] though that may not have net [00:38] I've never tried getting networking going in vMac [00:38] I've got an ISA LocalTalk card which I am pretty sure still works with current Linux kernels, I should donate that to someone who'd make better use of it than me :/ [00:39] hmm [00:39] does it have a ROM on it? [00:39] oh, it's for PCs [00:39] hmm... [00:39] what Mac stuff do you have, if I may ask? [00:40] sadly not much these days. I used to be quite a collector, but now I've just got a Plus, a few peripherals, Asante EN/SC, maybe a couple of old powerbooks [00:41] the EN/SC is another good option for getting old Macs online, you can pretty easily get AppleTalk or even TCP running with a modern machine off the Plus using it [00:41] ex-parrot: well I'm signed on [00:41] I have one or two EN/SCs [00:41] with aol 5.0 [00:41] :D [00:42] where to go now [00:42] nice! [00:42] well, for one thing, please send me the binary :P [00:42] got it at http://www.ppcmla.com/downloads/ [00:42] excellent [00:43] IIRC a lot of stuff didn't work [00:43] but I somehow managed to get into files [00:43] at least some [00:44] wow [00:44] aol://4344:1264.a2main.10029531.514525857 works [00:44] brilliant [00:44] SketchCow, you may care about this ;) [00:44] omg this works [00:45] I don't really know anything about AOL, not being even remotely from the right part of the world [00:45] but if there are no extant reverse engineerings of the protocol it might be interesting to tcpdump it and see if it's possible to just enumerate every possible ID with a custom client [00:46] balrog_: Is that the URL to the weird AOL-specific network they used to have? [00:46] yep [00:46] works in aol 5.0 for mac [00:46] That's extraordinary [00:48] ex-parrot: some of these still work: http://aolhostages.tripod.com/oldused-KWs.txt [00:49] I wonder if they're still running their original 1997 unix daemons for that, full of fixed length buffers and so on :P [00:49] that's so cool balrog_, I will have to have a play with this further after work [00:51] "The OMNI Software Center" worked... [00:51] problem is, how do we find many of these? [00:52] incrementing can work for some [00:52] might be worth having a play with the protocol and seeing if it can be convinced to provide index listings or anything as well [00:53] i think people are going to be interested in video9992 of g4tv.com [00:54] well http://web.archive.org/web/20011011181824/http://www.aol-files.com/misc/theaolprotocol.wri may be of use. [00:57] I wish I had more time to play with this right now :/ [00:58] what file type is that .wri file? `file' reckons it's a word document but abiword has a hard time rendering it [00:58] ex-parrot: ms write [00:58] wordpad probably can open it [00:58] looks like AOL broke all keywords [00:58] ok, will find a windows box later :) [00:58] * balrog_ looks for an older AOL [01:00] * ex-parrot has to get back to work [01:00] when do you get out of work? [01:01] in about 4 hours [01:02] wow [01:03] it's being EXTREMELY difficult to find old aol [01:06] DFJustin: you'll have to go fishing for keywords... not exactly easy. [01:07] oldversion.com has old AOL versions for Windows.... I'll see if I can find anyone who has old Mac OS versions too [01:08] it all used to be on ftp.newaol.com [01:11] hmm [01:11] http://www.mattmazur.com/archive/ieetfools/masteraol.html [01:11] much of that may no longer work [01:12] I wouldn't be surprised if there are ways into the system though [01:12] you just have to be really careful [01:12] to not wipe stuff [01:12] since AOL most definitely no longer cares [01:13] SketchCow: do you think an AOL archival project is something worth considering? [01:14] wow http://www.mattmazur.com/archive/aol-files/index.html is old [01:15] and is half-broken [01:15] <3 the guestbook [01:17] this will require a coordinated project [01:18] ha, found it [01:18] http://canada.aol.com/software.adp [01:18] erk no [01:18] links to the dead ftp :/ [01:18] I swear that ftp was alive two years ago [01:21] Tom may have some old AOL clients floating around too. I'll hit him up about that also when he comes online [01:23] ok [01:31] Is there any tool that'll systematically crawl over AOL protocol? [01:31] shaqfu: afaik no one wrote one yet [01:31] however there were "hack tools" that allowed issuing commands to aol [01:31] also, an issue is that aol disabled most of the indexes. there may still be a way to get them with said tools [01:34] Hm, do all URLs have an associated keyword? [01:34] no, the main ones did [01:35] Damn; so much for archiving via exhaustion [01:35] I need to see if aol master still works [01:36] the "star tool" [01:37] wow you could even run scripts with that [01:37] http://www.angelfire.com/sk2/Twisted/Anti-AOL.htm [01:38] http://web.archive.org/web/20020329213511/http://www.aol-files.com/downloads/docs/index.shtml [01:39] that brings back some memories- the different tools for kicking people offline, screwing with chatrooms, and other such mayhem [01:39] http://web.archive.org/web/20020205182212/http://www.aol-files.com/fdo91/index.html [01:39] that's a manual to aol protocol I think [01:39] may be too old [01:40] dashcloud: I think this "forgotten" AOL stuff needs to be crawled. [01:40] it's at extremely high risk of going away [01:40] It's miraculous that it's still here, and it's non-trivial to get [01:41] I'm happy to crawl it- what's the appropriate wget command here? [01:41] it doesn't work that way. :/ [01:41] I thought you meant the sites [01:41] not AOL itself [01:41] no, I meant sites that are inside AOL [01:41] only accessible via AOL protocol. [01:42] Hm, curl doesn't handle it either [01:42] http://cl.ly/image/371N0t1I2e2j [01:42] that should give you an idea. [01:43] 89? Holy fuck [01:43] my thoughts would be screen cap software+wireshark for captures [01:44] I'm hoping SketchCow is paying attention. :) [01:45] It might be useful to download everything we can manually and dump it into a textfiles-style library [01:45] Unless some genius wants to write wget for aol:// ;) [01:45] actually- if you can find anything written by the folks who did the Ultima Online emulator, that's probably useful (at least for the concepts and ideas) [01:46] shaqfu: wget for aol:// is probably possible [01:46] I have to see how much of the star tool still works [01:47] I'm just a little concerned that some of this may begin to draw the line with "hacking" [01:47] it's funny that aol never prosecuted [01:47] they could have [01:47] people did all kinds of shit with aol [01:47] balrog_: THat would be useful for pages, but I'm not sure how they're linked to each other [01:48] I want to see if some of the commands to generate indices still work [01:48] curl might be better to hack support into, since it seems more flexible on the surface [01:48] so did you create that screenshot, or was it from elsewhere? [01:48] ahh [01:48] I created it. [01:48] a successful steak dinner [01:48] right from my computer. [01:49] logged in to AOL, right now. [01:49] still logged in. [01:49] With what user/pass? [01:49] I had an account [01:49] crawling AOL would be a coup [01:49] I think you can create ones that work [01:49] https://new.aol.com/productsweb/?promocode=827692&ncid=txtlnkuswebr00000073 I believe is where you make one [01:50] I see a download later button in your screenshot- can you use that to queue up everything in an area, and then have it download? [01:50] for some reason it's dimmed [01:50] upload is too [01:50] dashcloud: there's a lot [01:50] you'd be spending a long looong time that way [01:51] I'm guessing "Read Description" gives you a little window with metadata? [01:51] yep [01:51] description, author contact, shareware fee, etc [01:51] Wonder if that's with the file somehow [01:52] Otherwise... :| [01:52] maybe, maybe not [01:52] would be useful to grab both. [01:52] Yeah [01:52] Grab something and see what you get [01:52] file links mostly work. [01:52] and download just fine [01:53] not all give you what you'd expect [01:53] Hm? [01:53] some give you weird pictures [01:54] like this "ASCII Chart" shows an image of some guys boxing [01:54] probably someone found a backdoor and replaced some files [01:54] but most work. [01:54] I'd say >99% [01:54] probably 99.9% or more [01:54] I'm a bit worried [01:54] ftp.newaol.com went away [01:54] the old servers may go next. [01:55] Hm...is it possible to have a macro for OS7/8/9 that'll move the list selection, call up the desc, screenshot, hit Download, and repeat [01:55] That'll at least automate file lists like that [01:55] I think tom owad wrote that [01:55] we did that [01:55] in 2006 [01:55] but that won't help list collections [01:55] there are many, many collections [01:56] and keywords are busted [01:56] but, there might be other way [01:56] s [01:58] how do you crawl if there's nowhere to crawl? [01:58] Exhaustion? But I don't think that's viable with 30-char aol:// links [01:58] yeah. [01:58] this stuff dates back to the late 80s [01:59] wow [01:59] AGM conference logs [01:59] chat logs* [01:59] going back to 89 [01:59] there's a lot here. [02:00] this is like the predecessor to geocities/etc [02:00] it needs to be crawled [02:00] Probably a much bigger deal than it also [02:03] hm, I found a way to go from crawled library location -> root library location [02:03] ok, so tell me [02:03] how safe is it to put a win98 vm online? :P [02:03] hi joepie91 [02:03] good time to show up :p [02:04] Like, something to drop into VBox and run? [02:04] no, I want to test the star tool [02:04] see if it still works [02:04] Oh, hm. No clue [02:04] it'll be fine if you're behind nat [02:05] and anyway, it's a vm [02:13] collect anything you can find about the aol protocol and stick it in a wiki page [02:13] it's annoying enough since most of the aol hacking sites are dead [02:13] naturally [02:16] how many people here actually are interested in this? [02:16] I was hoping more people would be. [02:17] it's interesting, but without an AOL account, not much I can do- looking around to see if anyone had made a mass file downloader or something similar for AOL [02:18] I probably could create several accounts via tor [02:18] if you don't want to [02:18] free accounts actually work [02:19] This is a lot of history that'll simply pass out of existance - I'd agree, it needs attention [02:20] apparently AppleScript did exist in 1995- whether it actually can do anything inside of AOL or to programs in general in something I don't know [02:20] I doubt aol is scriptable [02:20] again the biggest problem is getting the lists of archives [02:21] have you had any luck with the AOL master files thing you or someone mentioned earlier? [02:21] I haven't tried it yet [02:26] so reading the Master AOL page you linked earlier, if it works for you, that should be the way to get to every screen [02:29] this gives you a better idea of the GIDs: http://koin.org/files/aol.aim/aol/fdo/tutorial/tutorial%20-%20global%20IDs.htm [02:34] balrog_: you mentioned this site earlier as a wayback link, but the site itself is still live now, and has lots of good info: http://www.mattmazur.com/archive/aol-files/downloads/tools/win/star/ [02:34] many 404s there [02:34] that bunch has lots of info there- good documentation on using the star tools [02:37] yes [02:37] the question is DO THEY WORK [02:38] and if they do, be really really careful [02:44] whew. my poor judgment of bidding on collection of government surplus electric typewriters has been saved by being outbid. [02:45] :/ [02:45] you just missed an interesting discussion about AOL [02:45] FILE'S DONE [02:45] sorry, reflex. [02:45] and archiving stuff for which you cannot use wget. [02:48] balrog_: If Star Tool is a no-go, it might come down to lots of manual labor :( [02:48] or those QuickKey scripts [02:48] or some wiresharking and a lot of pain [02:48] There's some documentation on aol:// out there, but I don't know nearly enough about network tech to know if it's useful [02:49] For someone to, say, hack up a noninteractive browser for it [02:51] would probably need to probe. [02:53] and if they do, be really really careful [02:53] Why do you need to be careful? [02:53] because there may be functions to delete stuff etc [02:54] I'm testing an account I created via that website I linked [02:55] however my networking might be busted since I'm on dog-slow 3g internet [02:55] i have no idea how i'd even logon to AOL if I wanted to these days [02:55] go to their web stie [02:55] site* [02:55] register for an account [02:55] get aol 5.0 [02:55] log in [02:55] done [02:55] this: http://web.archive.org/web/20010128152400/http://www.aol-files.com/downloads/tools/mac.html (see Bulk Mailer near bottom) seems to indicate you can use scripting for AOL [02:56] yep [02:56] an account created there /works/ [02:57] wait [02:57] where'd you get the 5.0 installer, these aolcanda ftp links don't work? [02:57] oldversion.com/oldapps.com had it [02:57] Is there a go-to SheepSaver disk image for OS8? [02:58] not really [02:58] Someone gave me one aeons ago, but I idiotically lost it [02:58] and star tool doesn't work on mac [02:58] I'll try my barely functioning Win98 VM [02:58] i'm installing aol 5 voluntarily. this seems like a bad idea on so many levels but here we go [02:58] down the rabbit hole. [02:58] Tom has appeared online, he's digging up the files we downloaded back in 2006 to see how big it is [02:59] ex-parrot: how were the main site links found? [02:59] like aol://4344:1264.a2main.10029531.514525857 [03:00] I'll see if I can get him in here to answer questions :) [03:00] ok :) [03:00] so i losted power for about 2 hours [03:00] i still want to meet some old prodigy employee, get them real drunk, and they'll spill the beans where the secret archives are [03:00] ouch, that sucks [03:01] then i'll assemble a crack team of archiveteam ninja's equipped with flash drives [03:01] good luck :( [03:01] prodigy got bought up [03:01] trying to get some incomplete files downloaded [03:03] Speaking of old networks, is GEnie still extant at all? [03:04] I get a "this version is not supported" message on AOL 5.0 [03:04] workaround? [03:04] ? [03:04] when logging in [03:04] yes [03:04] hey owad, how were the main site links found on AOL for that project? I have a really limited memory of what we did [03:04] weird [03:04] I just created an account [03:05] and successfully logged in [03:05] hi owad [03:05] i'm using a really old AIM account though [03:05] I tried to email you like 3 times about this [03:05] let me go make a new one [03:05] DrainLbry: an AIM account won't work [03:05] hello [03:05] http://new.aol.com [03:07] sorry I'm talking to like two people here :/ [03:07] and now invalid screen name. it hates me. [03:07] ex-parrot, I'm not sure what you meanâ¦ the file libraries all have numerical URLs, so I just wrote a script to increment the count [03:08] owad: how about like the forum window though? [03:09] I don't think I tried to archive any forums. The ones I found, I probably would have gotten to by using the original keywords [03:09] it seems the original keywords no longer work. [03:09] I'm looking for my notes right now. [03:10] OK, thanks! [03:13] well lucky me appears to have won one of the auctions... argh :) [03:13] i'm the proud new owner of some uh... old dot matrix printers now. whoopie. [03:15] Still lookingâ¦Â I found some files for using AOL with Claris Emailer. Is that of any use to anyone? [03:15] probably. [03:15] if in doubt, keep it :) that's how we do things here [03:15] Want me to send it to you? [03:16] I'll take it [03:16] Ohhhh... this could work out well after all, appears the Multifunction in the lot I won has a 30 page ADF on it. [03:16] so, if you've got the Windows version of AOL installed, you may want to also install this tool: http://web.archive.org/web/20010713011523/http://www.aol-files.com/downloads/tools/win/dbview/index.html [03:16] also found a copy of AOL 3.0 for Mac [03:17] I'd like that [03:17] since aol's ftp is dead. [03:17] which thing? [03:18] also found a .sit archive that's supposed to be AOL 1.0 [03:19] hmm [03:19] I wonder if you can go to an arbitrary gid [03:20] and a file called "AOL Link" in my old Extensions folder [03:20] yeah that's part of the aol install [03:21] and here's a folder called "AOL to GS Autotypers" [03:21] looks like it's related to a IIgs emulator [03:26] hmm, cool [03:26] can you put all that stuff in an archive? [03:27] file search in aol 3: "The database is unavailable, please try again later." [03:29] http://i.imgur.com/JdTWyLP.png [03:29] fun quote from a book i have: "In fact, the Internet-wide Gopher system, knwon as "Gopherspace," collectively contains more information than the World Wide Web, is faster to search, and returns the results more quickly than Web servers can parse Web pages. [03:34] so, how exactly are you connecting to AOL? are you actually dialing-up, or using a different method? [03:35] tcp/ip [03:36] balrog_ -i still can't get this thing to work. suspect it might be the period in my screenname i chose [03:36] likely. [03:37] hmmmm [03:37] http://koin.org/files/aol.aim/aol/fdo/tools/software%20library%20list%20bmb_libs.xls [03:37] what's in there [03:37] * balrog_ downloads [03:40] extending wget to support the aol protocol would be hilarious [03:40] yep, dont use a period [03:40] db48x: not easy, by any means [03:40] also, better than using curl because wget already supports warcs [03:40] I looked for that zip file- aol-files.com says this about the zipfile: BMB's compiled library list. [03:41] alard is the one to talk to for wget modifications [03:42] db48x: doing that would be ridiculously crazy. [03:42] the AOL protocol is arcane beyond measure. [03:42] grab everything about the protocol that you can find, and everything about the indexes and libraries [03:42] and list them at http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=AOL [03:42] balrog_: also hilarious [03:43] I'm pissed that search is broken [03:43] apparently they killed that server [03:43] how are you guys even finding content? short of the Apple II link above [03:43] well [03:43] which worked great. [03:43] but yeah... lots of busted infrastructure [03:43] go to aol://4401:8287 [03:43] change the numbers [03:44] i get no access to library/file on that [03:44] bizarro world [03:44] aol://4400:8287 [03:44] err [03:44] etc [03:44] ooh [03:44] these map to that xls! [03:45] aol://4400:N [03:45] where N is the id in the spreadsheet [03:45] cool [03:45] excellent info for the wiki [03:46] I couldn't find my archives on any mounted drive, but I know I didn't delete them. I'll have to check some older drives I have. [03:46] the other idea I noticed that I really like is a script that can drive the AOL ui and take screenshots [03:46] balrog, I have a 4 MB zip containing the stuff you asked for. Should I email it to you? [03:46] owad: you can. [03:47] screenshots would help the archeologists of the future quite a bit [03:47] the problem is that this lacks structure [03:47] how do we find links to forums? [03:47] and boards [03:47] agreed [03:48] just found some vintage AOL porn. for you know, science. [03:48] if you can find documentation of the url format, then we can make a start on organizing things by their url if nothing else [03:48] the spreadsheet seems to cover a lot of that- it mentions a bunch of Boards [03:48] no, those are file spaces for those boards [03:48] I think [03:49] they may be empty. [03:49] boards have urls such as aol://4344:1264.a2main.10029531.514525857 [03:49] so 4400: is a file space and 4344: is a board? [03:50] yes [03:50] fuck, this board requires age verification [03:50] but the infrastructure for that no longer works. [03:50] we have progress then [03:50] write it down so that it will have actually happened [03:50] balrog_: awesome [03:50] yes, but aol://4344:nnnn doesn't work without the extra [03:50] I must sleep ere I turn into a pumpkin [03:51] balrog_: it's still progress :) [03:51] collect some more forum links and see if you can work out what the rest of it means [03:51] timestamps? [03:52] aol://4344:1264.a2main.10029531 also works [03:52] I'm happy to play around with the AOL stuff tomorrow if you've got some more details on how exactly I connect to AOL without needing a dial-up modem [03:52] dashcloud: what version of AOL are you using? I recommend 5 [03:52] I don't have any version yet- I'll setup everything tomorrow once I know how it's going to work [03:52] simply aol://4344:1264.a2main does not work. [03:52] ok, yeah you tell it to use TCP/IP [03:52] create an account at the above url [03:53] screen name can't have period, password 8 chars [03:53] I can't believe they still have these servers up [03:53] assuming keywords are dead too since they act like search? [03:53] keywords are dead. [03:53] so how long is the trial these days? [03:53] there is no trial. [03:53]