| Time |
Nickname |
Message |
|
01:14
π
|
omf_ |
http://netpreserve.org/projects/warc-tools-project - libwarc never got developed |
|
01:15
π
|
omf_ |
Sturgeon's Law is in full effect |
|
02:56
π
|
godane |
so i just found 2 files with the same names |
|
02:56
π
|
godane |
good thing i'm keeping the file tree |
|
04:26
π
|
omf_ |
So wget has had 3 different html parsers |
|
04:28
π
|
omf_ |
looking at the one they are using now I wonder if the programmers ever heard of this concept of reusable code. We build these things called libraries |
|
04:28
π
|
omf_ |
and the CSS parser is not a parser, it is a fucking guesser |
|
04:30
π
|
balrog |
omf_: I looked at wget some time ago |
|
04:30
π
|
balrog |
what I saw did not please me |
|
04:31
π
|
balrog |
lftp is cleaner, though still pretty messy |
|
04:31
π
|
balrog |
might just be better off writing a clean alternative in python |
|
04:31
π
|
omf_ |
There is some good C code in there but the technical debt is through the roof |
|
04:31
π
|
omf_ |
For example the warc support that was added in 1.14 has zero tests in the test suite |
|
04:32
π
|
omf_ |
and looking at the string of bugs they already fixed in it via the changelog is just fucked |
|
04:33
π
|
omf_ |
many tools that have history this long are like that |
|
04:33
π
|
omf_ |
balrog, what is the killer feature you use lftp for? |
|
04:33
π
|
balrog |
foreign FTP charsets |
|
04:33
π
|
balrog |
there's no other CLI tool I've found that reliably supports that. |
|
04:33
π
|
omf_ |
curl |
|
04:34
π
|
balrog |
also the mirror command is handy, and supports both multifile and multipart |
|
04:34
π
|
balrog |
curl will recursively download a cp1251 ftp server? |
|
04:34
π
|
balrog |
pretty sure I tried and failed |
|
04:35
π
|
balrog |
gotta say, lftp works reliably |
|
04:36
π
|
balrog |
omf_: have you ever had to download a utf16 http site? |
|
04:36
π
|
omf_ |
not in years |
|
04:36
π
|
omf_ |
2004/5 ish |
|
04:36
π
|
balrog |
wget can't handle it |
|
04:36
π
|
balrog |
lftp can't handle it |
|
04:36
π
|
omf_ |
of course |
|
04:36
π
|
balrog |
I don't think curl can handle it |
|
04:37
π
|
balrog |
philpem wrote some custom python crawlers to do it :p |
|
04:37
π
|
balrog |
https://bitbucket.org/philpem/grabbers |
|
04:38
π
|
balrog |
seriously why does wget's codebase have to be so shitty -.0 |
|
04:38
π
|
balrog |
-.- * |
|
04:39
π
|
omf_ |
because there have been too many people who worked on it with no coding standards or unified direction about the application |
|
04:40
π
|
balrog |
*sigh* |
|
04:40
π
|
balrog |
why does that feel like a thing with GNU projects? |
|
04:40
π
|
chronomex |
it's the culture |
|
04:40
π
|
chronomex |
hacks are cool |
|
04:40
π
|
chronomex |
etc |
|
04:40
π
|
omf_ |
yes it is a serious culture problem |
|
04:40
π
|
chronomex |
if you consider it a problem :P |
|
04:41
π
|
omf_ |
not being able to update the code without fixing bugs to make it happen is junk |
|
04:41
π
|
chronomex |
yes, that's a problem |
|
04:41
π
|
omf_ |
incomplete test suite = your software is shit |
|
04:41
π
|
balrog |
a complete test suite won't prevent code duplication |
|
04:41
π
|
omf_ |
gnu focused on little cli apps not libraries as such |
|
04:42
π
|
omf_ |
glibc has only recently gotten better since they changed governance |
|
04:42
π
|
omf_ |
and kicked that mega-asshole out |
|
04:42
π
|
balrog |
yeah and eglibc pushed them |
|
04:42
π
|
omf_ |
no it didn't |
|
04:42
π
|
omf_ |
ask them |
|
04:42
π
|
balrog |
since debian and friends got tired of him |
|
04:42
π
|
omf_ |
debian never went forward |
|
04:42
π
|
balrog |
pretty sure debian uses eglibc |
|
04:43
π
|
omf_ |
nope |
|
04:43
π
|
omf_ |
read the follow up blogs they made years later |
|
04:43
π
|
omf_ |
the big push was uclibc |
|
04:43
π
|
omf_ |
that and the arm guys |
|
04:43
π
|
balrog |
uclibc is different |
|
04:43
π
|
omf_ |
they created forks, put on pressure and got code upstream |
|
04:44
π
|
omf_ |
they are all sister projects now |
|
04:44
π
|
balrog |
yeah |
|
04:44
π
|
omf_ |
before they were not |
|
04:45
π
|
omf_ |
gcc has the same design problem. It was not modular at all, hence LLVM getting support since it started modular and design ideas |
|
04:45
π
|
balrog |
yeo |
|
04:45
π
|
balrog |
yep* |
|
04:46
π
|
balrog |
but that was in part RMS being afraid that modular would cause proprietary plugins, which I think is totally BS |
|
04:46
π
|
omf_ |
the gcc guys know this is a problem and talk about it every now and again on the mailing list looking for a way to make it happen |
|
04:46
π
|
omf_ |
people tried it though |
|
04:46
π
|
balrog |
and what can you do about proprietary plugins with clang? nothing |
|
04:46
π
|
balrog |
since clang allows that by design |
|
04:46
π
|
omf_ |
but the world is different now |
|
04:47
π
|
omf_ |
Companies see the value of open source |
|
04:47
π
|
omf_ |
rewind 15 years and shit |
|
04:47
π
|
omf_ |
I remember when libxml2 came out and it killed all the closed source versions except MSXML |
|
04:48
π
|
omf_ |
People want to share libraries and collaborate now which is best for everyone |
|
04:48
π
|
omf_ |
balrog, you a programmer or a system admin? |
|
04:48
π
|
balrog |
both :p |
|
04:48
π
|
balrog |
I'm a comp-sci student |
|
04:48
π
|
balrog |
graduating in may |
|
04:48
π
|
balrog |
and I do sysadmin stuff for myself and on the side |
|
04:49
π
|
balrog |
why are you asking? just curious? :) |
|
04:50
π
|
omf_ |
I was asking earlier to find out where the technical field is for the archiveteam. I am a programming and system admin. |
|
04:50
π
|
balrog |
ahh |
|
04:50
π
|
omf_ |
programming since 1986 and admin since 1997 |
|
04:50
π
|
balrog |
I see |
|
04:50
π
|
balrog |
I mess with old computers as a hobby |
|
04:50
π
|
balrog |
I'm somewhat involved with MAME/MESS |
|
04:51
π
|
omf_ |
The original or the JSMESS version? |
|
04:51
π
|
balrog |
that's another project where ... well the code isn't as bad as much as it's impenetrable due to lack of good documentation of how the core stuff works |
|
04:51
π
|
balrog |
jsmess isn't a "version" per se |
|
04:51
π
|
balrog |
jsmess uses Emscripten, an LLVM to JS backend, to compile the mainline version into JS |
|
04:51
π
|
balrog |
pretty amazing, eh? |
|
04:52
π
|
balrog |
it's stripped down (one system per binary, rather than all) for size reasons, and some other changes are made, but it's pretty much the same code |
|
04:52
π
|
omf_ |
Actually I think emscripten is a terrible idea. Lets build a cross compiler to a programming language that is really not that good |
|
04:53
π
|
omf_ |
You ever watch 'Code Rush'? |
|
04:53
π
|
balrog |
JS is not that good but it's ubiquitous |
|
04:53
π
|
omf_ |
When they made javascript, they talk about how bad it is and the hopes it could be fixed in the future |
|
04:53
π
|
balrog |
if something else becomes ubiquitous, a cross compiler may be written for that |
|
04:53
π
|
balrog |
but good luck with it |
|
04:54
π
|
omf_ |
that is the quandry JS is in |
|
04:54
π
|
omf_ |
Google built dart to get around it |
|
04:54
π
|
omf_ |
coffeescript |
|
04:54
π
|
omf_ |
that shit MS made |
|
04:54
π
|
balrog |
dart still compiles to js |
|
04:54
π
|
omf_ |
so does the MS thing |
|
04:54
π
|
omf_ |
they all do |
|
04:55
π
|
omf_ |
but to get support in all the browsers is impossible mainly because of IE |
|
04:55
π
|
omf_ |
Everything else is open source |
|
04:55
π
|
balrog |
yeah |
|
04:55
π
|
balrog |
now that Opera is switching to Webkit |
|
04:55
π
|
balrog |
it's still mostly all Webkit |
|
04:56
π
|
balrog |
you have three engines, Webkit, Gecko, and Trident (IE) |
|
04:56
π
|
balrog |
and that's it |
|
04:56
π
|
omf_ |
the syntax for closures in JS is so clunky |
|
04:58
π
|
omf_ |
There was nothing ready for the browser when they had to make JS |
|
04:58
π
|
balrog |
you're sure debian didn't switch to eglibc? http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=libc&searchon=names&suite=stable§ion=all shows "Embedded GNU C Library" |
|
04:58
π
|
balrog |
for squeeze |
|
04:59
π
|
balrog |
blah |
|
04:59
π
|
balrog |
I have to take off |
|
04:59
π
|
balrog |
later |
|
05:03
π
|
omf_ |
debian debian debian, they finally made it work |
|
05:05
π
|
omf_ |
I remember the big problem was flash didn't work with eglibc but eglibc was updated to fix that |
|
05:13
π
|
omf_ |
wget should really use libxml2, then again modern needs are beyond things like wget, httrack, curl |
|
05:26
π
|
omf_ |
It takes 1/100th of a second to parse a 1mb html file |
|
06:44
π
|
omf_ |
and the parser is thread safe, we truly live in the future |
|
09:10
π
|
Smiley |
the archive team logo |
|
09:10
π
|
Smiley |
the sword one, whats that based off? |
|
09:11
π
|
GLaDOS |
Adventure time |
|
09:11
π
|
Smiley |
lol ok |
|
09:11
π
|
Smiley |
and they got it from dungeon siege? |
|
09:41
π
|
godane |
i found a lost linus interview |
|
10:24
π
|
Smiley |
cool |
|
10:34
π
|
Smiley |
http://hackaday.com/2011/08/21/this-glados-potato-is-a-lie/ |
|
10:34
π
|
Smiley |
I hope that highlighted GLaDOS :D |
|
10:34
π
|
GLaDOS |
It did |
|
10:36
π
|
GLaDOS |
So I had the opportunity to rant about Yahoo to one of my teachers today, and I sure did. |
|
10:37
π
|
GLaDOS |
Also showed the messages tracker. |
|
10:37
π
|
Smiley |
Nice. |
|
10:37
π
|
Smiley |
Any students interested? |
|
10:37
π
|
GLaDOS |
Nah |
|
10:37
π
|
GLaDOS |
My class is filled with technological dimwits :c |
|
10:37
π
|
Smiley |
what do you study? |
|
10:37
π
|
GLaDOS |
I'm just in Year 10! (We don't get to choose course) |
|
10:37
π
|
Smiley |
D: |
|
10:38
π
|
Smiley |
Jeez bud |
|
10:38
π
|
Smiley |
I thought you were far older, congratz |
|
10:38
π
|
GLaDOS |
Next year, I swear.. |
|
10:38
π
|
GLaDOS |
Heh, everyone does. |
|
10:39
π
|
GLaDOS |
Although, the IT teacher here is rather fascinated by the Posterous situation.. |
|
10:40
π
|
Smiley |
always good :) |
|
10:40
π
|
Smiley |
how old are you then? |
|
10:40
π
|
GLaDOS |
15 |
|
10:41
π
|
Smiley |
we decided on gcse's at year 10 |
|
10:41
π
|
Smiley |
so yr 10/11 weren't so bad as the others. |
|
10:42
π
|
GLaDOS |
All we get to choose in Year 10 here is, 1. Do you want to do a higher or lower pathway, and 2. Home Economics or Design Technology? |
|
10:48
π
|
Smiley |
we had higher lower math, english, |
|
10:48
π
|
Smiley |
choice of science or double science |
|
10:48
π
|
Smiley |
and thne between design tech (graphic design basically), cooking, or woodwork |
|
10:49
π
|
GLaDOS |
Ah |
|
10:49
π
|
GLaDOS |
Our Design Tech is woodwork, metalwork, furnishing, etc. |
|
10:50
π
|
GLaDOS |
And hell, we get a Cert 1 in Furnishing at the end of it, so I'm not complaining. |
|
10:56
π
|
Smiley |
nice. |
|
13:03
π
|
underscor |
GLaDOS: Is "Year 10" similar to our 10th grade? |
|
13:03
π
|
underscor |
(ie, are you like 16/17?) |
|
13:03
π
|
underscor |
Oh, <GLaDOS> 15 |
|
13:03
π
|
GLaDOS |
I'm 15. |
|
13:04
π
|
underscor |
Holy shit |
|
13:04
π
|
GLaDOS |
YEah |
|
13:04
π
|
underscor |
Congrats, dude :) |
|
13:04
π
|
underscor |
That's fantastic. |
|
13:04
π
|
GLaDOS |
Lurking here since I was 12, actually started partaking at 13.. |
|
13:05
π
|
underscor |
That's so cool :D |
|
13:05
π
|
underscor |
I wish my 12 year old brother was as cool :P |
|
13:05
π
|
GLaDOS |
Yeah, that's what happens when you have literally nothing else to do. |
|
13:05
π
|
GLaDOS |
(for 3 years, I was in isolated places) |
|
13:12
π
|
jk[SVP] |
what underscor said GLaDOS, 15, "Holy shit" |
|
13:56
π
|
Cameron_D |
Wow, I thought you were 14-15 like 2 years ago (when you were using my home server) |
|
14:27
π
|
nooneyb |
http://imgur.com/rbXnD3m |
|
14:38
π
|
Schbirid |
nooneyb: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxVdU2eVYSg much? |
|
14:47
π
|
Smiley |
dude your in australia |
|
14:47
π
|
Smiley |
the whole place is isolated. |
|
15:41
π
|
nooneyb |
Schbirid a little :P |
|
15:54
π
|
DFJustin |
https://twitter.com/internetarchive |
|
16:12
π
|
SketchCow |
WAIT WHAT |
|
16:12
π
|
SketchCow |
15 |
|
16:12
π
|
SketchCow |
I had you pegged at 30 |
|
16:14
π
|
DFJustin |
tell that to the judge |
|
16:20
π
|
chazchaz |
heh |
|
16:23
π
|
DFJustin |
also that means there are geocities pages older than you :o |
|
16:49
π
|
Smiley |
:D |
|
16:50
π
|
omf_ |
I just realized the keyboard I am using is 14 years old |
|
17:04
π
|
ersi |
that's like almost GLaDOS's age |
|
17:04
π
|
ersi |
wewt :) |
|
17:04
π
|
omf_ |
It is the oldest part of my computer. I never got a new one since it just works |
|
17:04
π
|
ersi |
Model M? |
|
17:05
π
|
omf_ |
I have my model M from my 80s IBM on my media center. I gave an ergonomic keyboard a shot and it really has helped improve my typing |
|
17:06
π
|
omf_ |
Its so weird now because typing on a laptop is hard. It feels so cramped |
|
17:06
π
|
ersi |
hehe, a bit |
|
17:06
π
|
omf_ |
Unless you get a laptop with a bigger keyboard layout |
|
17:07
π
|
omf_ |
You know there is a talk about designing and building keyboards at OSCON this year |
|
17:29
π
|
mistym |
Some of the spam on the wiki right now is *amazing* |
|
17:29
π
|
mistym |
As i seated straight down at the stand, a pair of connected with our food pets enquired in unison, using eye-opening seems to be on their faces, Γ’ΒΒDid you notice what is this great? Γ’ΒΒ |
|
17:29
π
|
mistym |
Γ’ΒΒYes, Γ’ΒΒ My partner and i reacted as i shuffled the couch in as well as unfurled the paper napkin. Γ’ΒΒThey harvested a brand new pope, by Latina America. Γ’ΒΒ<br><br>Γ’ΒΒNo, certainly not which, Γ’ΒΒ they will reacted. Γ’ΒΒGoogle can be closing along Yahoo and google Reader in Come early july 1. Γ’ΒΒ |
|
17:29
π
|
ersi |
mmmmh, harvest a brand new pope |
|
17:30
π
|
chazchaz |
What's the purpose of this sort of spam? |
|
17:33
π
|
mistym |
Honestly not sure. The only copy I have is text-only but maybe it was laden with links. |
|
17:35
π
|
chazchaz |
I can undersatnd "click here for knock off viagra" and spam our product name to make it look popular/trending type spam, but there seems to be a disproportionate amount of "We're testing our random sentence generator and spambot combo" stuff out there. |
|
17:40
π
|
omf_ |
I also see it as a way to make a site look bad and drive people away from a project. Who wants to use a site that is mostly SPAM? |
|
17:41
π
|
chazchaz |
But if that was the aim, wouldn't something more inflamatory work better? |
|
17:43
π
|
omf_ |
All that matters is raising the signal to noise ratio. More inflammatory content might get cleaned up faster |
|
17:43
π
|
omf_ |
Think of spam as an information war |
|
17:45
π
|
omf_ |
Anything that degrades the quality of your data means you are losing |
|
17:46
π
|
chazchaz |
Also, loads of spam make it way more work to back up thinks, like we're seeing with posterous. |
|
18:42
π
|
Smiley |
I've seen tons and tons of markov chains spam and I don't understand why |
|
18:42
π
|
Smiley |
not just here, but all over the web in the weirdest places, and it has no links |
|
18:42
π
|
Smiley |
THE SKYNET IS COMING :O |
|
18:49
π
|
chronomex |
some of it is steganographic messages |
|
18:49
π
|
chronomex |
and no this is not me being paranoid, I have evidence |
|
18:49
π
|
soultcer |
I think I read a paper on that once |
|
18:50
π
|
chronomex |
do you have a link handy? |
|
18:50
π
|
chronomex |
I'd love to read that paper |
|
18:51
π
|
soultcer |
Searching for it, but I only vaguely remember it so I might not be able to find it |
|
18:51
π
|
chronomex |
sure |
|
18:54
π
|
soultcer |
chronomex: http://arxiv.org/abs/1101.0350 |
|
18:55
π
|
chronomex |
nice work, thanks! |
|
18:56
π
|
chronomex |
someone has emailed me asking for removal of a comment on a message board that mentions her, because it ranks highly in google and that's not good for this person |
|
18:56
π
|
chronomex |
1) this person has no google results other than this comment |
|
18:56
π
|
chronomex |
2) this comment is ten years old |
|
18:58
π
|
nooneyb |
answer that the law forbid you to change 10+ years old comments |
|
18:59
π
|
chronomex |
I said that we don't remove comments except by request of the original poster |
|
18:59
π
|
chronomex |
which is true, if a bit evasive |
|
18:59
π
|
nooneyb |
find a way to blame MPAA and RIAA |
|
18:59
π
|
chronomex |
who let you in here? |
|
19:00
π
|
nooneyb |
the door was open |
|
19:00
π
|
chronomex |
o ok |
|
19:00
π
|
nooneyb |
this its not the AA meeting? |
|
19:00
π
|
nooneyb |
I came for the cookies |
|
19:00
π
|
joepie91 |
chronomex: wait for the DMCA |
|
19:00
π
|
chronomex |
so apparently if you annoy someone on irc, the new CFAA might make it a felony |
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19:01
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underscor |
https://twitter.com/internetarchive/status/315281157841354752 |
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19:02
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nooneyb |
I could use a couple of those cases |
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19:02
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nooneyb |
sad that I am too far |
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19:02
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Smiley |
i need moar drives |
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19:03
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soultcer |
So the IA is shucking externla HDDs? |
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19:03
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nooneyb |
they get the bundle, but only use the HDDs |
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19:04
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ivan` |
heh, empty hard drive enclosures |
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19:04
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ivan` |
the Hitachi Touro ones have to be pried open, voiding warranty |
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19:06
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omf_ |
I gotta buy another 12tb in the next month, le sigh |
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19:07
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soultcer |
I'm going to decomission my old < 2 TB HDDs in a few weeks :D |
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19:08
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omf_ |
soultcer, that is part of the reason for me getting more drives |
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19:08
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omf_ |
It is rotation time |
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19:09
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soultcer |
I love rotation time |
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19:11
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Smiley |
I xcurrently have 2x 1gb : |
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19:11
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Smiley |
D: |
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19:12
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nooneyb |
I had a 1.2GB back in the day |
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19:12
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nooneyb |
big foot |
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19:12
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Smiley |
o back then I had 800mb i think |
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20:01
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joepie91 |
undersco2, are you awake? |
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20:01
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joepie91 |
underscor would be fine too |
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20:03
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|
* |
underscor is a cat or something? |
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20:03
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underscor |
;D |
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20:04
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joepie91 |
lol |
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20:04
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underscor |
(@joepie91) |
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20:04
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joepie91 |
let me PM you |
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20:04
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underscor |
mk |
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20:04
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joepie91 |
also meow |
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20:04
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underscor |
:3 |
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20:05
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underscor |
https://twitter.com/ab2525/status/281100349165670401 |
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20:05
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underscor |
(cc joepie91) |
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20:05
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underscor |
:P |
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20:05
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joepie91 |
underscor: haha |
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21:07
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Famicoman |
http://jakonrath.blogspot.com/2013/03/obsolete-anonymous.html |
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21:13
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omf_ |
too true |
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22:12
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godane |
hey Famicoman |
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22:12
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godane |
i'm starting to find all the lost techtv video ids |
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22:13
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godane |
does anyone know of a way to find out what warc wayback machine is uing |
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22:13
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godane |
*using |
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22:14
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godane |
i want to know so i can download it and zcat it |
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22:21
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joepie91 |
https://twitter.com/joepie91/status/316676034932133890 |
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22:56
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dashcloud |
hi folks, if you're living in the US, please read this and at least consider calling your Congress people: http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130324/14342822435/rather-than-fix-cfaa-house-judiciary-committee-planning-to-make-it-worse-way-worse.shtml |
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23:03
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dashcloud |
From a tweet: Price of 1 gigabyte of storage over time: 1981 $300,000 1987 $50,000 1990 $10,000 1994 $1,000 1997 $100 2000 $10 2004 $1 2012 $0.10 |
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23:14
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dashcloud |
so, the folks at the Mister Wong bookmarking site have applied all your favorite things about freemiums and DLC to a bookmarking site: http://www.mister-wong.com/plans/ |
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23:16
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omf_ |
I wonder how many customers they have |
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23:16
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GLaDOS |
"bookmarks you can save in total: 10" |
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23:16
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GLaDOS |
That's cute. |
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23:24
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nooneyb |
I didnt know that Triumph of the Nerds has a sequel |
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23:24
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nooneyb |
http://www.pbs.org/opb/nerds2.0.1/ |
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23:31
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dashcloud |
so, according to this tweet: https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/316623260714414080 the site wasn't always like that |