[00:04] omf_: arrogance and quality of work are not mutually exclusive :) [00:05] I am watching his vaunted video series and he talks about how things grew and completely ignores entire sections of what was going on [00:05] Then justifies his view by saying that history proves it if you ignore the same things he ignored [00:09] Then again what did I expect from a series of talks about how great javascript is, reality is obviously not required [00:11] People always like to play off javascripts weakness because it was designed and implemented in 2 weeks. How many years of EMCA meetings and mailings lists has it taken to get JS to where it is now [00:11] and it still does some whack ass shit [03:17] what was that. [12:53] http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/10391/the-security-trainwreck-that-is-zpanel/p1 [12:57] joepie91: Again? [12:59] joepie91: Ok, I don't see the details, I am not diving into it at all, as never used it, but as you describe it (and considering your skills and knowledge), this is bad [12:59] terrible so to say [12:59] and yes, I also hate the same attitude of "take it or leave it" [13:02] far worse [13:02] norbert79: it's worse than 'bad' [13:02] :( [13:02] I ran across the forum post that I talk about there, yesterday [13:02] with bobby claiming that they weren't problems etc [13:02] and I just went "you've got to be kidding me..." [13:02] and decided to make a summary [13:02] these guys have absolutely no fucking clue [13:03] and that's not the biggest issue [13:03] because nobody is perfect [13:03] the main issue is, that they don't care [13:03] indeed [13:04] honestly, had I contacted them, they'd scared the shit out of them and fixed it, there would have been no issue [13:04] and I would be perfectly fine with it [13:04] yeah, agree [13:04] but they've been trying to find reasons NOT to fix things for months now [13:04] it's ridiculous [13:04] I have no skills to do a similar tracking, maybe with time... But if you check on something and they give a crap... That's an issue [13:05] btw as payback I would have demoed the issue doing a rooting on their own system [13:05] just to prove a point [13:05] I'd rather not v& [13:05] :P [13:06] The main issue I was moving away from Panel based solutions was [13:06] that some are poorly written [13:06] like there is Cpanel [13:06] s/some/most/ [13:06] it can't handle SSH [Case] situations [13:06] that said, cpanel isn't great either... [13:06] it helps with database settings, mailing a lot, that's true [13:06] basically, all web hosting panels suck balls [13:06] but if I wish to have some specific setting [13:07] like a plain Match User case [13:07] and it fucks it up [13:07] by adding the users to the END of the file [13:07] that breaks my balls [13:07] haha [13:07] on that note [13:07] seriously, you have to keep Allowuser root to TRUE [13:07] there's such a disconnect [13:07] to have the cpanel working right [13:07] nonsense [13:08] worst part: some panel writers are asking for money for those [13:08] ok, fine ask money for support [13:08] but the code should stay open [13:08] half the people says proprietary software is absolutely fine, and that "but you cannot fix things yourself in proprietary software" is not a valid reason [13:09] the other half of the people meets an issue in $proprietary_thing, and is frustrated because they cannot fix it [13:09] clearly both cannot be true at the same time... [13:09] well [13:09] I think the second is mostly more valid [13:09] especially in commercial and business systems [13:09] the thing is [13:09] the second one is objective [13:09] it is an experience that happens [13:09] there is no disputing [13:09] the first one is, at best, an opinion [13:09] I mean you cannot rollout a software because some fricking simple bug for tousand of systems... ok go on [13:10] Agree [13:10] at worst, an uneducated claim based on commonly repeated pseudo-knowledge, that holds no basis in reality [13:10] combined with some fallacies for good measure, typically [13:10] maybe the first refers to cases where you don't touch the code or try to reverse checking as you wish to do a very simple thing [13:10] Like my example: Simple laser printer [13:10] the problem really is that the first one is said by people that have never experienced the second [13:10] Acculaser M1200 Epson [13:10] and because _they_ haven't experienced it, noone has [13:11] Oh, I see [13:11] according to them [13:11] it's a complete lack of seeing the bigger picture [13:11] well [13:11] I said the first sentence a few times, but during an install of an application to a regular office Windows where I knew all the details yet the application to be installed was as informative as a stubborn ox [13:12] "install cannot be completed, try again" [13:12] no error codes, nothing [13:12] and it was necessary for work [13:12] so in this case i tried to fix my issue [13:13] but I couldn't really do so [13:13] so this might be referring to such scenarios [13:13] or was at least in my case [13:13] anyway, zPanel, no-go [13:15] sounds like a similar problem [13:15] and, indeed [13:16] btw I just start to love my new Genius keyboard... KB-G235 [13:16] finally my daughter can sleep and I can type :) [13:17] seems like an okay keyboard [13:17] how heavy is it? [13:18] light [13:18] * joepie91 has http://www.areadvd.de/images/2010/medion_erazer_7717/tastatur.jpg [13:18] (it's backlit) [13:18] 100 gr maybe [13:18] ah :( [13:18] mine is probably close to a kilo [13:18] Yours looks also nice [13:18] (also, my keyboard layout is a bit different from what you see on the image, but same keyboard otherwise) [13:18] mine was around 15 â¬ [13:19] mine was 20 [13:19] iirc [13:19] fair price too [13:19] it has 3 colors backlight, extra heavy [13:19] and rock solid [13:19] backlight is a nice feature altough [13:19] I am missing that here [13:19] (backlight is also smoothly dimmable) [13:19] but being quite was my first goal [13:19] anyway, I recently spilled an entire thermos (!) of hot water over it [13:19] "quiet" [13:19] ouch [13:20] it took me 10 seconds to unplug it and turn it upside down on a blanket [13:20] zero damage [13:20] hah [13:20] it had absolutely no issues with it [13:20] cool [13:20] ... apparently it's waterproof too [13:20] lol [13:20] lucky [13:20] heheh [13:20] anwyay, I type quite intensively [13:20] Well, I had an older Samsung keyboard, white [13:20] to the point where a Logitech keyboard will break in <3 months [13:20] in my hands [13:20] and it even survives that [13:20] and I still own a pre-windows logod keyboard... [13:20] doesn't bend either, at all [13:20] like, it takes the impact and all [13:20] but it doesn't actually *bend* [13:21] most keyboards do bend to a degree [13:21] heh, nice... [13:21] anyway, I've had this keyboard for like 5 years now [13:21] my previous one was 9 years old [13:21] same for my mouse [13:21] both still work fine [13:21] only thing is that my keycaps are starting to become unreadable :( [13:21] (and it's kinda noisy, but it types very pleasantly) [13:21] hehhe, yeah [13:21] yeah [13:21] :p [13:21] must've been a good one then [13:22] yeah, mine was meant for being silent as a lamb [13:22] heh [13:22] chopped [13:22] :) [13:22] the noise is a bit problematic here really [13:22] bf is currently in the same room [13:22] doing voice acting stuffs [13:22] and his professional mic actually picks up my typing [13:22] a few meters away [13:22] lol [13:22] unreadable keys on a keyboard is a problem why? [13:22] I've had complaints before because "it sounds like you're shooting a machine gun" [13:22] http://pckeyboard.com/page/PC122/UB40B5A - I wish for one of these or... [13:23] keyboard noise + typing speed == deadly [13:23] :p [13:23] SmileyG: it is for people that aren't used to blind typing [13:23] joepie91: indeed. [13:23] but n oone touches my pc other htan me [13:23] "wtf where is the start button?" [13:23] that's mostly my policy [13:23] http://pckeyboard.com/page/Classic/UNI044A [13:23] haha [13:23] Or this [13:23] but I am waiting for the new stock of classic 101 and 102 [13:23] but, bf also occasionally uses my PC (only when I'm here) [13:23] "zomg your mouse is so fast" [13:23] and he touch types.. kind of [13:23] half touch half blind [13:23] ish [13:23] idk [13:23] it's a strange way of typing [13:23] but he has issues with keys not being labeled, at times [13:24] I can even type with ofsets when keyboards are in weird places such as to my side, or behind me [13:24] Well, I can only use 6 fingers [13:24] I have a lot of issues with differently laid out keyboards [13:24] especially laptop keyboards [13:24] joepie91: takes me a few minutes to retrain and then i'm fine most of the time [13:24] but I have the layout of this keyboard etched into my mind pretty much [13:24] only problem is size of keys [13:24] :P [13:24] Mine is generic Hungarian.. Oh I hate laptop keyboards too, but Lenovo had a pretty ok one for the T430 [13:24] an d how far down they go [13:24] also, re: bf's typing style: he uses two fingers, sometimes three... yet he hits very close to my typing speed [13:24] if they don't depress, i get angry :D [13:24] perhaps 20 wpm less or so [13:25] idk how he does it [13:25] SmileyG: that's my primary gripe with laptop keyboards [13:25] my current laptop is one of the very few keyboards that has a keyboard with a pleasant travel distance and click [13:25] ...you're a girl? O_O [13:25] even though it's not a large travel distance [13:25] cheapo lenovo netbook [13:25] no [13:25] I'm not [13:26] But you could be :D [13:26] Sorry [13:26] anyway, the only other laptop I've ever liked in terms of keyboard, were the school laptops... [13:26] strangely enough [13:26] Acer Timeline something [13:26] best laptop keyboard I've ever used [13:26] If laptop, then Lenovo category T... [13:26] norbert79: I don't like the keyboard on the higher end Lenovos [13:26] it's like someone put pillows under the keys... [13:26] so i'm at 5291gb uploaded now [13:26] I want them to click [13:26] Yeah, on the other hand they are compact [13:26] then again, there's worse [13:26] Ooh, the issue is with the clicking [13:26] macbook keyboards... [13:27] are absolutely atrocious [13:27] to me [13:27] only packard bell laptop keyboards are more unpleasant than apple keyboards imo [13:27] joepie91: For clicking keyboards I would suggest Unicomp Buckle Spring or "Das Keyboard" :) [13:27] that's some old school [13:27] expensive [13:28] I've been looking at das keyboard in particular [13:28] but can't afford it right now [13:28] but I'm fine with my Medion for now [13:28] it's not a mechanic keyboard, but it's not far off in terms of feel :) [13:28] yeah, that seems nice [13:28] :) [13:28] It's shameful to say but the cheap dell keyboards you get with their desktops are alright. [13:28] and about as durable [13:28] My family would hate me bad if I would have one of those keyboards :) [13:28] SmileyG: yes, the Dell keyboards are okay [13:28] finally the missus is happy with my current [13:28] as are the Trust keyboards [13:28] and, surprisingly, the 5 euro keyboards from the local discount store [13:29] they're extremely light, but they're okay to type on [13:29] norbert79: hah [13:29] also, note how BlueMax woke up just to ask whether I was a girl, and then stopped responding :P [13:29] Trust are nice, yup. [13:29] I like logitech ones too, the old ones [13:30] Media keyboards with the media keys but nothing extra than that. [13:30] Logitech $anything always breaks for me [13:30] in <1 year [13:30] most stuff in <3 months [13:30] well I'm not able to follow the conversation because I've had nothing but crap keyboards in my life [13:30] like, literally always [13:30] Trust > Logitech for durability [13:30] Trust is a bit strange anyway [13:30] it's all rebranded imported chinese stuff [13:30] * norbert79 just realizes that joepie91 "<3" means less, than three ... [13:30] damn it, too many chat with the missus [13:30] haha [13:30] <3 is heart for me [13:30] :p [13:30] same, normally [13:30] I'll put a space inbetween normally [13:31] anyway, Trust has some terrible stuff, and a lot of good stuff [13:31] I see a wizard hat with boobs dangling off it [13:31] i'm over 5000 found techtv videos [13:31] if you pay attention to what you buy, you pay dirt for something that will probably outlive you [13:31] especially their speakers are really pleasant [13:31] I got a Lenovo keyboard from when I was in an isolated community. [13:31] right now, I have a pair of old (!) Trust speakers hooked up to my pc [13:31] They just had some spares. [13:31] they have been actively used for over 15 years [13:32] 2 years in, it's still perfectly fine. [13:32] and still function [13:32] it recently got some contact issues with the volume button, and it seems an internal wire for the subwoofer output has gotten loose [13:32] but both are fixable [13:32] pretty easily [13:32] even by a electronics-tard like me [16:55] norbert79: I have the 122-key keyboard in front of me right now [16:56] chronomex: I hate you :) [16:56] :D [16:56] Original IBM? [16:56] why? [16:56] or the Unicomp one [16:56] unicomp [16:56] I see [16:56] usb [16:57] Those were used for accessing 5250 and 3270 terminals back in the days [16:57] yes [16:57] it's a strange layout [16:57] strange, but it was meant for Mainframe terminals [16:57] but as being former IBM employee and Mainframe admin [16:57] right [16:57] I wish for such :) [16:58] I wonder how well it would work with x3270 or IBM Personal Communicator [16:58] or with c3270 [16:58] including special keys [16:59] chronomex: Do you use all the keys? [17:04] not very often [17:04] but it's cool having F20, isn't it? :D [17:05] yup [17:05] If it would have been, I would have mapped the login keys to F20 and not to Ctrl-Alt-Del... You wish to login? Get a proper keyboard [17:05] if it would have been me [17:05] unfortunately most of the extended keys are mapped to key combos, not individual keycodes [17:06] Oh, I see [17:06] not sure really how PA1 PA2 buttons were actually mapped [17:07] I never touched a real 122 keyboard in front of a real 3270 terminal :( [17:07] had to do things always remote [18:57] I just shoved most of the slackware isos on IA [19:33] http://ripplescam.org/ [19:33] cc norbert79, omf_, and chronomex [19:33] I suspect you may find this interesting [20:09] joepie91: Thx, checking [20:13] joepie91: Hehhe, small reference to a known coin system? ;-) [22:27] norbert79: hmm? :P [22:37] * SmileyG looks in [22:38] * BlueMax shaves Smiley [22:39] interesting attack [22:43] I usually throw people out windows [22:44] yeah I've noticed. [22:44] unfortunately for people with such big internet cocks that's impossible here [22:44] Anyway bed time for me :< [22:48] damn I shaved all your fur, now whatcha gonna do