#archiveteam-bs 2013-05-25,Sat

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Time Nickname Message
00:27 πŸ”— ersi joepie91: What's lacking, documentation-wise, to python?
00:28 πŸ”— joepie91 ersi: I wrote an article about this, but someone else did it better: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2013-February/641750.html
00:28 πŸ”— joepie91 (my original article can be found at http://joepie91.wordpress.com/2013/02/19/the-python-documentation-is-bad-and-you-should-feel-bad/)
00:30 πŸ”— ersi Oh yeah, I remember now. I've read that.
00:32 πŸ”— balrog for a long time, the PHP documentation specifically recommended using insecure, dangerous programming practices.
00:33 πŸ”— balrog @abadidea made http://phpmanualmasterpieces.tumblr.com to demonstrate
00:34 πŸ”— ersi Heh, don't get me started on PHP docs
00:40 πŸ”— balrog joepie91: in my experience, python docs are not that bad at all
00:40 πŸ”— ersi Hopeless to even walk into that trap
00:40 πŸ”— joepie91 irrelevant
00:40 πŸ”— joepie91 I am experiencing this issue, so are many many others that I have talked to
00:40 πŸ”— joepie91 don't want to fix it, fine, but don't tell me to go use Python
00:41 πŸ”— joepie91 (same for any other language)
00:41 πŸ”— joepie91 because quite often, those trying to advocate $language to me, deny that the problems with the docs (or other arbitrary $thing) exist just because _they_ are not having issues with it
00:41 πŸ”— omf_ I find the navigation and organization of the Python docs to be sub-optimal
00:41 πŸ”— joepie91 entirely forgetting that the initial reason for the conversation was them trying to get _me_ to use it
00:41 πŸ”— joepie91 so I can conclude with one simple sentence:
00:41 πŸ”— joepie91 "fix it or stfu"
00:42 πŸ”— joepie91 :P
00:42 πŸ”— joepie91 (re: those that do the above-described)
00:42 πŸ”— ersi I can't understand how you've gotten used to PHP's docs
00:42 πŸ”— balrog I don't think I've seen you describe the issue other than "I feel the docs and the community both suck"
00:42 πŸ”— joepie91 balrog: see the two references above
00:42 πŸ”— balrog I just paraphrased those two references there
00:42 πŸ”— joepie91 combined, they provide an excellent in-depth description of the problem
00:43 πŸ”— joepie91 and interestingly, those that claim there is not enough information in there, are usually the people denying that the problem exists
00:43 πŸ”— joepie91 whereas those that experience the same problems, read them and are like "yes! I have that too!"
00:43 πŸ”— joepie91 make of that what you will..
00:43 πŸ”— joepie91 and I'm honestly not terribly interested in further discussion whether the python docs do or do not suck
00:44 πŸ”— joepie91 they suck for reasons I have already explained... if you disagree, that's fine
00:44 πŸ”— joepie91 but that does not remove the issue for me
00:44 πŸ”— joepie91 hence I will not be replacing PHP with $language
00:50 πŸ”— balrog http://blog.briancurtin.com/posts/why-i-dont-feel-so-bad.html Ҁ” heh. to be honest, I've RARELY got help from general language-type freenode channels
00:50 πŸ”— balrog be they #drupal, #wordpress, or whatever
00:50 πŸ”— balrog #python, etc
00:50 πŸ”— balrog haven't got banned, but usually you get ignored
01:17 πŸ”— omf_ I can tell you which language has the best core documentation but I doubt anyone would believe it
01:17 πŸ”— omf_ unless they have used it
01:18 πŸ”— BlueMax I'd believe it...wait, it's not Java is it
01:18 πŸ”— omf_ no
01:19 πŸ”— BlueMax python?
01:23 πŸ”— omf_ You see I read through joepie91's post as well as the mailing list thread and the python documentation is flawed, they never asked themselves a key question which professional technical writers obsess over. "Who is the intended audience for this work?" That is a complex problem because you have to know their level of knowledge while overcoming your innate bias known as "The curse of knowledge"
01:23 πŸ”— omf_ As pointed out in the email there is a difference between the docs and spec for building the language and the reference material for using the language
01:24 πŸ”— omf_ few people build a language, many more use a language
01:24 πŸ”— omf_ Bad docs make assumptions that are usually wrong to the wider audience
01:27 πŸ”— omf_ and considering anything you distribute on the internet is out there for everyone. Let me repeat the entire world is now the possible audience and that has to be taken into consideration. Knowledge wants to be free and shared otherwise the open source movement wouldn't be so big
01:28 πŸ”— omf_ This is why translations of documentation are made because people understand that not everyone speaks the same language.
01:28 πŸ”— godane so we have screen savers rehearsals
03:45 πŸ”— DFJustin lmao the strcmp post on there
04:06 πŸ”— cmx DFJustin: ?
04:08 πŸ”— DFJustin http://phpmanualmasterpieces.tumblr.com/post/44634822304/i-am-so-comically-angry-right-now
04:09 πŸ”— DFJustin I guess it's old hat if you code php but I don't and lolll at the security flaw it links to
04:10 πŸ”— cmx oh shit
04:10 πŸ”— cmx hahahahaha
04:10 πŸ”— cmx what the everliving fuck
04:11 πŸ”— godane just for everyone counting at home
04:11 πŸ”— godane there are over 58k video files for g4tv.com now that i got the full list
04:12 πŸ”— godane not including the hd videos i'm adding
04:13 πŸ”— illunatic DFJustin: i just this exact template on a website years ago. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Nkw03ORU1Os/UTLeZryCg1I/AAAAAAAAAFU/rJNEaG_J7VY/s1600/otp_issue.png
04:32 πŸ”— illunatic http://askubuntu.com/questions/299772/how-to-clean-the-cool-sneaker
04:32 πŸ”— illunatic how to clean the cool sneaker
04:50 πŸ”— godane looks like in early 2001 techtv did web cast news
04:53 πŸ”— DFJustin wow this is pretty mesmerizing http://crawl-monitor.us.archive.org/crawling/domain/liveupdates.html
04:55 πŸ”— DFJustin so many posterous placeholders :/
05:11 πŸ”— godane so its starting to look i need another hard drive
05:16 πŸ”— godane So i got koogle keynote
05:17 πŸ”— godane *Tim Koogle
05:17 πŸ”— godane first ceo and president of yahoo
05:18 πŸ”— godane after him i think it when to hell
05:30 πŸ”— godane i have steve jobs japan keynote
05:53 πŸ”— godane i got clips of leo laporte on Regest and kelly
06:22 πŸ”— godane got to love this: http://origin.g4tv.com/xml/BroadbandPlayerService.asmx/GetVideoClipsById?videoKeys=45383
06:22 πŸ”— godane FUCKYOUTOOFUCKER
06:22 πŸ”— godane thats the file name but doesn't exist
06:35 πŸ”— S[h]O[r]T hahaha
06:36 πŸ”— S[h]O[r]T DO NOT USE - Alison Brie's Behind the Scenes Tour Of AOTS
06:37 πŸ”— godane luckly i got the full episode of that one
06:44 πŸ”— instence_ have you guys ever run into a situation where the wget process just says "Killed" and it stops?
06:45 πŸ”— instence_ strange
07:13 πŸ”— S[h]O[r]T low memory?
07:35 πŸ”— cmx instence_: sounds like the OOM killer, and yes
07:36 πŸ”— cmx check the output of 'dmesg | less'
07:55 πŸ”— godane so does anyone here want to help me buy a hard drive?
08:01 πŸ”— ivan` 4TB Hitachi Touro if you don't need a warranty, 5K4000 (same thing) if you do
08:01 πŸ”— godane ok
08:02 πŸ”— ivan` http://www.amazon.com/HGST-Touro-External-Drive-0S03503/dp/B008JQNXLA/ sometimes drops to $170-$175, you can set up a price watch
08:02 πŸ”— ivan` I use http://camelcamelcamel.com/
08:03 πŸ”— ivan` the Touro has no screws and requires some serious prying to open, makes my hand very sore every time
08:04 πŸ”— godane the reviews say it failes
08:04 πŸ”— godane like bad i/o errors
08:05 πŸ”— ivan` I've had one DOA 5K4000 out of 7 received, no problems of any sort with the other 6
08:05 πŸ”— ivan` I write all over it and check the checksums
08:06 πŸ”— ivan` earliest is from Dec 2011
08:07 πŸ”— godane just looking at and found out it needs dc plug
08:07 πŸ”— godane i was hoping a usb power one
08:08 πŸ”— ivan` heh, sorry, I assumed you were shopping for an internal drive which is why I referred to the Touro as a no-warranty drive requiring disassembly
08:08 πŸ”— ivan` I don't think the big drives will not be usb-powered
08:09 πŸ”— ivan` unless you want 1.5TB
08:09 πŸ”— godane i have a 2tb wd drive
08:29 πŸ”— godane another scan magazine of pc novice: https://archive.org/details/pc-novice-1995-07
08:41 πŸ”— godane awsome 10mb gif about xbox one: https://i.minus.com/iBzvb2JSpQNRM.gif
10:03 πŸ”— godane http://archive.org/details/processor-newspaper-v26i30
10:03 πŸ”— godane starting to upload processor newspaper
11:26 πŸ”— omf_ how many issues do you have godane?
13:32 πŸ”— joepie91 <instence_>have you guys ever run into a situation where the wget process just says "Killed" and it stops?
13:32 πŸ”— joepie91 yup, memory issue
13:32 πŸ”— joepie91 I've noticed that wget-warc can use a ridiculous amount of RAM
13:32 πŸ”— joepie91 on large sites
14:35 πŸ”— S[h]O[r]T godane, awesome @ processor. i get that thing weekly at work. good mag
18:07 πŸ”— godane i don't know how many but its from like june/july of 2004 on
18:22 πŸ”— godane also i'm removing the + in filenames since archvie.org doesn't like
18:23 πŸ”— godane when you try to download a file inless it http you will get a 404 page
19:28 πŸ”— godane so looks like i can add stuff to archiveteam when using ftp
19:28 πŸ”— godane i just got to the select shareware archives then change the mediatype and collection in it to web and archiveteam
19:29 πŸ”— godane uploaded: https://archive.org/details/www.g4tv.com-broadbandplayerservice-getvideoclipsbyid-20130525
19:30 πŸ”— godane also weird that cdx file is unknow
19:30 πŸ”— godane but cdx.gz is know as a cdx index file
19:34 πŸ”— godane SketchCow: is there anyway you can give me acesss to change the mediatype and collections of my items already uploaded?
19:35 πŸ”— godane i ask cause anything already in texts can't be changed
19:35 πŸ”— godane also it will be a less stuff for you to move when time comes to sort my stuff
22:00 πŸ”— Smiley omg so durnk
22:00 πŸ”— Smiley this is epcin
22:00 πŸ”— ersi Warning, drunk IRCing detected.
22:01 πŸ”— Smiley :)()
22:01 πŸ”— Smiley waith
22:01 πŸ”— Smiley that looks like normal IRCCCCCCCCC
22:01 πŸ”— Smiley fack.
22:25 πŸ”— nico_ i know someone that added pam_alcootest to the session chain of the screensaver
22:25 πŸ”— nico_ you are drunk ==> no login for you
22:59 πŸ”— godane i had to reboot
23:00 πŸ”— godane stupid vlc was in task bar and i couldn't make it quit
23:03 πŸ”— wp494 not even through task manager?
23:03 πŸ”— wp494 (as in the processes tab)
23:04 πŸ”— godane i tryed killing it in htop
23:04 πŸ”— godane it didn't work
23:09 πŸ”— dashcloud kill -9 always works unless the system is locked up, or is listed as a zombie process
23:15 πŸ”— nico_ it can take some time
23:16 πŸ”— nico_ if the system is really loaded
23:20 πŸ”— ivan` kill -9 can't kill something in uninterruptable sleep
23:23 πŸ”— dashcloud it can't, but something in uninterruptable sleep that you didn't plan is essentially a locked up system
23:24 πŸ”— nico_ not really
23:25 πŸ”— nico_ there are still hope that the kernel will timeout the io

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