#archiveteam-bs 2013-06-06,Thu

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Time Nickname Message
01:45 🔗 dashcloud hey folks, have you had trouble recently remembering who you called, or who called you? If you're a Verizon Wireless customer, don't worry- just ask the government- they've been keeping tabs for you: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order
14:34 🔗 joepie91 dashcloud: wow
14:34 🔗 joepie91 they went all out
14:43 🔗 Schbirid underground-gamer irc is dead now? anyone know anything? :(
14:44 🔗 twrist Didn't they close due to some possible legal pressures?
14:45 🔗 Smiley the website did, but they said they had everything safely archived (user stuff)
14:47 🔗 balrog Schbirid: #UG on espernet
14:49 🔗 Schbirid cheers
14:56 🔗 Schbirid and now i am crawling snapchat for some stupid reason (fun)
14:56 🔗 Schbirid picked a random user and it does not seem to end too quickly
14:59 🔗 Smiley snapchat?
14:59 🔗 Smiley wut
15:00 🔗 Smiley how do you go about crawling ssnapchat?
15:01 🔗 Schbirid take a user with friends (unlike http://www.snapchat.com/Smiley ), -np and reject /go/ and have fun
15:01 🔗 Smiley got a working user?
15:02 🔗 Smiley -np?
15:02 🔗 Smiley i'm presuming this is some kind of wget fun
15:02 🔗 Smiley if your teling me you can gragb a users photos.... then LOLS
15:02 🔗 Schbirid http://www.snapchat.com/smiley4 ?
15:02 🔗 Schbirid no
15:03 🔗 Schbirid just friendlists
15:03 🔗 Smiley dawww
15:04 🔗 Smiley Anyone sniffed the traffic?
15:10 🔗 omf_ smelled like farts
15:11 🔗 omf_ Today for work I am trying something different.
15:11 🔗 omf_ I woke up and started downing expensive beer
15:12 🔗 antomatic I read that as "started downloading expensive beer" at first
15:12 🔗 omf_ Lets see how work is whilst not sober
15:12 🔗 joepie91 so
15:12 🔗 joepie91 apparently a new mobile provider in NL
15:12 🔗 joepie91 provides "really unlimited calling, texting, and internet"
15:13 🔗 joepie91 7/2mbps 3G
15:13 🔗 joepie91 "no fineprint"
15:13 🔗 joepie91 this is going to be fun
15:14 🔗 Schbirid re NL, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5830994 is pretty crazy
15:18 🔗 joepie91 Schbirid: ha
15:18 🔗 joepie91 tip of the iceberg
15:18 🔗 joepie91 how about police cars that are equipped with 360 degree cameras that record 24/7, send recordings to central storage
15:19 🔗 joepie91 where they are kept for weeks to months
15:19 🔗 joepie91 license plate scanners on police cars, also operating 24/7
15:19 🔗 Schbirid well, it seems to work, i have not heard of any terrirismosm in NL
15:19 🔗 joepie91 increasing cooperation between government and private security firms because private firms aren't bound by the same legislation
15:19 🔗 joepie91 etc
15:19 🔗 joepie91 Schbirid: have you ever heard of the lion joke?
15:20 🔗 Schbirid nope
15:20 🔗 joepie91 guy: "yeah, I've found a way to repel lions, I just sing 'halleluja' really loud, and they stay away"
15:20 🔗 joepie91 other guy: "I don't see any lions around here"
15:20 🔗 joepie91 guy: "see? it works"
15:20 🔗 joepie91 that about summarizes the security measures in NL
15:20 🔗 joepie91 they're supposedly 'protecting' against something that didn't happen in NL in the first place
15:21 🔗 Schbirid heh, yeah
15:21 🔗 joepie91 all these privacy-breaking measures are very recent
15:21 🔗 joepie91 past 8-10 years or so
15:21 🔗 joepie91 at most
15:21 🔗 joepie91 before that, all these things didn't exist
15:21 🔗 joepie91 and guess how much terrorism happened? 0
15:21 🔗 Schbirid alot terrorism
15:22 🔗 joepie91 oh, bonus: Dutch ID card stores more fingerprints than mandated by EU
15:22 🔗 joepie91 and they're stored centrally too
15:22 🔗 joepie91 or were, at least
15:22 🔗 joepie91 possibly people have gotten angry enough about it to make it go away
15:22 🔗 joepie91 but I doubt it
15:23 🔗 joepie91 (stored in a foreign country too)
15:23 🔗 joepie91 (not that I care about borders, it's just strategically kind of stupid)
15:24 🔗 joepie91 also, it's kind of disconcerting to think that the same people that were fucked over by collected data during the WWII occupation of the Netherlands by Germany
15:25 🔗 joepie91 are now not doing anything against the increasing surveillance and data retention
15:25 🔗 joepie91 and being ignorant
15:25 🔗 joepie91 one of the reasons Nazi reign in NL was so efficient, was because NL kept perfect tabs on its population
15:25 🔗 Smiley loil
15:26 🔗 joepie91 (I'm not even kidding - this was seriously one of the greatest contributions to their reign.... the people register....)
15:27 🔗 joepie91 but apparently people are too retarded to learn from that, or somethinbg
15:27 🔗 joepie91 :|
15:27 🔗 joepie91 something*
15:27 🔗 omf_ It is the same cliche. If you do not learn from history you are doomed to repeat it
15:28 🔗 joepie91 indeed
15:28 🔗 joepie91 also, this new mobile provider is odd
15:29 🔗 joepie91 the unlimited one
15:29 🔗 joepie91 they _do_ have a clause saying "fair use, blah blah blah"
15:29 🔗 joepie91 but keep saying "no fineprint" everywhere
15:29 🔗 Smiley mmaybe it's in font size 12?
15:29 🔗 joepie91 and it's apparently set up by the guy that set up Ortel (a pretty well-known prepaid SIM provider in NL, often used by turks, because they offer really cheap calling rates to turkey and many other countries)
15:29 🔗 joepie91 so I'm inclined to believe that they won't fuck you over
15:29 🔗 Schbirid =)
15:30 🔗 joepie91 also, monthly contract
15:30 🔗 joepie91 no yearly
15:30 🔗 Smiley those cheap rate things are funny
15:30 🔗 Schbirid lots of ortel ads in germany too atm
15:30 🔗 Smiley do you know how they work?
15:30 🔗 joepie91 Smiley: ?
15:30 🔗 joepie91 how do you mean?
15:30 🔗 Smiley VoIP
15:30 🔗 joepie91 quite possibly
15:30 🔗 Smiley We operate some
15:30 🔗 joepie91 I'm fine with it
15:30 🔗 Smiley no, they *do*
15:30 🔗 joepie91 :P
15:30 🔗 joepie91 call quality is fine
15:30 🔗 Smiley just funny
15:30 🔗 Smiley Of yeah sure
15:30 🔗 omf_ Which brings me to an interesting question. Archive Team is programmers and system administrators mostly from previous asking around. Who here keeps personal notes for admin and programming? I am not talking official documentation like for a job
15:30 🔗 Smiley it's just amusing, as anyone with skype can do the same thing :D
15:30 🔗 joepie91 I had a Lebara SIM (that I let expire... D:)
15:30 🔗 joepie91 calls to US for like 5 cents a minute
15:30 🔗 joepie91 heh
15:30 🔗 Smiley omf_: for admin I do occasionally.
15:31 🔗 Smiley joepie91: possibly routed via us :D
15:31 🔗 joepie91 omf_: I have a bazillion text files with notes laying around
15:31 🔗 joepie91 Smiley: heh
15:31 🔗 joepie91 it works very nicely though, no complaints
15:32 🔗 omf_ For the people who don't: Why not? A few years ago I started taking it seriously and kept everything in git since then. Now I have pages of nice clean material most of which is now automated applications so I never have to do tasks more than once
15:32 🔗 DFJustin whenever I find something really non-obvious or an occasional weird problem I make a text file note
15:32 🔗 Smiley I just found it interesting.
15:32 🔗 DFJustin also have a lot of bookmarks of stack overflow pages and the like
15:32 🔗 ivan` I keep checklists for a lot of things
15:33 🔗 omf_ See I moved away from bookmarks because unless the title is good scanning the list is not always good enough. I cut the piece out I need from a page and keep it local. Now I can just grep that dir of text files
15:34 🔗 omf_ It seems to me keeping notes is the smart and intuitive idea but the lack of documentation everywhere proves me wrong.
15:34 🔗 omf_ Stackoverflow is a god send because it is all CC and it uses gamification to get more people to contribute information.
15:34 🔗 omf_ and lower the crap ratio
15:34 🔗 DFJustin also because it has people who actually know what the fuck they are talking about
15:35 🔗 DFJustin which I guess flows from the above properties
15:35 🔗 omf_ People who know shit are attracted to it because the crap gets voted down
15:35 🔗 omf_ people there recognize talent
15:35 🔗 omf_ Giving people props for problem solving is an ego boost
15:36 🔗 omf_ and what do we know about engineers and technical people? Poor social skills and usually low self esteem
15:36 🔗 omf_ And yes I have every single data dumb from Stackoverflow backed up already
15:36 🔗 omf_ dump
15:36 🔗 omf_ and all the satelite sites too
15:37 🔗 DFJustin grepping a dir of text files is a good idea I think I'll reorganize things a bit in that direction
15:37 🔗 DFJustin too lazy to use git though
15:37 🔗 omf_ just make a backup
15:37 🔗 DFJustin who do you think you're talking to :D
15:38 🔗 ivan` you don't have to use real commit messages with git
15:38 🔗 ivan` you can just timestamp if you want
15:38 🔗 omf_ yep
15:38 🔗 DFJustin hm
15:39 🔗 omf_ I use git to help track when I started doing things different. If I pull up an old program and think wtf is this? I can look at the date and check to see if I had found the better solution yet
15:39 🔗 tyn There's a piece of software which stores notes in plain text with features; zim - http://zim-wiki.org/
15:40 🔗 omf_ We all have experience knowledge in our brains that is useful but atrophies over time, so I just write it down instead
15:40 🔗 tyn I use it even for class notes
15:40 🔗 ivan` org-mode
15:40 🔗 omf_ I also find mind maps for complex problems a great tool. I use the open source program Free Plane
15:40 🔗 tyn True. But for those mortals among us.
15:40 🔗 omf_ It uses a text xml file which is future friendly
15:44 🔗 omf_ I do not have to do internet research for a problem I have solved before and I have to remember less shit. I solve a problem and then stick the solution and other data in the notes. Later I just search and go.
15:45 🔗 omf_ That is why I see taking the few seconds to copy, paste, type and save a non-issue.
15:45 🔗 omf_ It is the same as search the web just focused on the data I think I might need
15:46 🔗 omf_ Search engines should allow users to custom tailor the results more to extract this level of value. Google CSE is the closest thing I have found.
15:47 🔗 tyn Yeah, that would be awesome. I find grep gives so many irrelevant hits when I search my files.
15:48 🔗 ivan` I switched to ag a few months ago which conveniently does not search .git .svn .hg etc
15:48 🔗 ivan` grep -r spends most of its time there
15:51 🔗 tyn True - but grep will happily exclude them with --exclude-dir=
15:51 🔗 ivan` ah right
17:24 🔗 Schbirid phew, poor gephi does not like 20k snapfriend nets
17:41 🔗 Schbirid hm, it seems like the friendlists are always only just 3 friends
17:45 🔗 Schbirid they limited that today
18:05 🔗 balrog lol
18:24 🔗 yipdw omf_: re: your question about administration notes: at my workplace, we are in the middle of a large Chef rollout for configuration management
18:24 🔗 yipdw I have mixed feelings about it
18:24 🔗 yipdw on the one hand, I do like the fact that configuration changes are subject to all the benefits of code review and source control; on the other hand, the overhead ranges from palpable to substantial
18:24 🔗 yipdw part of it may just be the cost of transitioning
18:25 🔗 yipdw (I'm actually the person driving it, heh)
18:41 🔗 omf_ Chef and Puppet are nothing special. I used to use cfengine for years and the only difference is the newer stuff is written in a different language and uses different jargon. We have yet to see a really good config management system
18:42 🔗 omf_ Shit when I do deployments now I just build a single image and install it to everything via the network
18:42 🔗 omf_ Config management doesn't matter because all the machines look alike
18:43 🔗 omf_ plus each distro has its own config management/system building software
18:43 🔗 omf_ Redhat = cobbler, debian = installer (i always forget the name), opensuse = kiwi
18:45 🔗 omf_ yipdw, did you have any config management before?
18:46 🔗 yipdw previously, the network was small enough to have it managed by one sysadmin
18:46 🔗 yipdw that has changed quite quickly
18:47 🔗 yipdw I've used both Chef and Puppet, but the point isn't whether they're special
18:47 🔗 omf_ You are introducing overhead. Learning & using puppet, discovery into how everything works, checking against existing documentation, trail & error, shakedown work
18:47 🔗 yipdw yeah, I know
18:47 🔗 yipdw you asked about notes and I offered one story
18:47 🔗 yipdw that's all :P
18:48 🔗 omf_ Oh yours is the perfect example of why notes and beyond are needed
18:48 🔗 yipdw we would not be doing what we're doing without configuration management
18:48 🔗 omf_ After everything is done Puppet will save time on future builds
18:48 🔗 yipdw yes, we've saved time, definitely
18:48 🔗 yipdw :P
18:48 🔗 yipdw I've still got mixed feelings about it
18:49 🔗 yipdw sometimes I wonder if we went too far in the "formalize it" direction
18:49 🔗 yipdw stuff like that
18:49 🔗 yipdw but it's always an approximation procedure
18:50 🔗 cmx from facebook: "when i broke up with my last gf i was so mad i deleted her from my friendster that i hadnt logged into in like 4 years lol"
18:51 🔗 yipdw omf_: I'll say one huge benefit we've gotten is the ability to provision development environments the same way as production, so yeah, it's paid off there
18:51 🔗 yipdw I do however need to find a way to quantify "paid off"
18:51 🔗 yipdw time saved is a good place to start; I need to attach a money value to it though
18:52 🔗 yipdw otherwise finance doesn't listen to me, etc.
18:52 🔗 yipdw and balance it against time invested in making this crazy thing work
21:01 🔗 joepie91 IA needs a Random button
21:07 🔗 cmx agreed
22:28 🔗 Smiley ^^

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