#archiveteam-bs 2013-07-28,Sun

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Time Nickname Message
00:20 πŸ”— omf_ http://torrentfreak.com/tough-copyright-laws-chill-innovation-tech-companies-warn-lawmakers-130727/
00:21 πŸ”— omf_ tl;dr Google, MS, Facebook and others wrote a 15 page letter that calls future copyright protection extensions shit and the current system shit as well
00:24 πŸ”— godane anyone know how to convert dates like this to be used archive.org: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:52:00 EST
00:24 πŸ”— godane i got the xml file of labrats and dates are going to be a problem in that format
00:28 πŸ”— omf_ is that their rss feed?
00:33 πŸ”— godane yes
00:35 πŸ”— godane http://www.labrats.tv/feedMOV480.xml
00:35 πŸ”— godane the html version has dates like 11/07/2005
00:36 πŸ”— godane but the raw one works better
00:37 πŸ”— omf_ And you are trying to autogenerate internet archive item names?
00:38 πŸ”— godane i found out how
00:39 πŸ”— godane date -d 'Mon, 7 Nov 2005' +%Y-%m-%d
00:55 πŸ”— godane i'm slowly uploading labrats
01:02 πŸ”— joepie91 omf_: the same MS that is arguing for SOPA?
01:02 πŸ”— joepie91 and similar
01:02 πŸ”— omf_ yeah
01:02 πŸ”— omf_ gotta love shit like that
03:08 πŸ”— yipdw so I'm reading the Web Crypto API proposal at W3C, and I'm really, really wondering why it has to be as complicated as it is
03:09 πŸ”— yipdw as an example, there's separate encrypt and sign methods, but I can't see any "take my data and do the right thing to sign-and-encrypt it" method
03:10 πŸ”— yipdw a la NaCl's crypto box
03:10 πŸ”— yipdw as another example, there are a fuckload of algorithms defined in the API
03:10 πŸ”— yipdw whoever is on this working group can't possibly expect Web programmers to get it right
03:12 πŸ”— yipdw I mean, just compare http://www.w3.org/TR/WebCryptoAPI/#SubtleCrypto-method-encrypt vs. http://nacl.cr.yp.to/secretbox.html
03:12 πŸ”— yipdw the really wtf thing is that the W3C recommendation does indeed have a set of sane use cases, and then they go and do...that
03:26 πŸ”— xmc heh
03:26 πŸ”— xmc awesome
03:26 πŸ”— xmc good to hear that we're still designing tech for wide distribution that has hidden gotchas
03:50 πŸ”— yipdw I hope I'm just reading the spec wrong
04:35 πŸ”— xmc I fear that you are not
06:12 πŸ”— godane SketchCow: you are getting labrats.tv shows now
06:13 πŸ”— godane another podcast from someone that worked with leo laporte
07:38 πŸ”— omf_ So this is why Fez 2 is dead. A fucking loser video blogger asshole - http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/27/4563738/fez-ii-abruptly-canceled-after-developer-phil-fish-explodes-in-rage
08:12 πŸ”— xmc there's a surprising amount of rage in the comments
08:12 πŸ”— xmc I blame all gamers everywhere ever
08:14 πŸ”— SmileyG No one realises Phil Fish is a asshat too?
08:15 πŸ”— xmc he may be but I didn't see him in the comments thread telling people to immolate themselves
08:15 πŸ”— SmileyG "Fish then lashed out at Beer, claiming that the GameTrailers host had assassinated his character, telling Beer to "compare your life to mine and then kill yourself,""
08:15 πŸ”— xmc which is a horrific thing to say to another person
08:15 πŸ”— SmileyG Yes, yes yes.
08:15 πŸ”— xmc ah
08:15 πŸ”— xmc well
08:15 πŸ”— SmileyG Fish IS an asshat.
08:15 πŸ”— xmc uhhh
08:15 πŸ”— xmc awesome.
08:15 πŸ”— SmileyG :)
08:16 πŸ”— xmc nobody is innocent here
08:16 πŸ”— xmc great
08:16 πŸ”— xmc I'm going to go back to whatever I was doing earlier
08:16 πŸ”— omf_ I am getting tired of this bullshit that these "journalists" think they are entitled to something from people they are trying to interview
08:16 πŸ”— SmileyG you realise Fish would rage when other people won awards he thought he should get?
08:16 πŸ”— SmileyG :D
08:16 πŸ”— xmc namely, writing a retraction for some things I said earlier today
08:16 πŸ”— omf_ that is what this all comes down to
08:16 πŸ”— SmileyG and then just start slagging people off
08:16 πŸ”— omf_ He didn't want to give quotes and then a pissing match started
08:16 πŸ”— xmc speaking of HOW TO INTERACT WITH PEOPLE PRODUCTIVELY
08:16 πŸ”— SmileyG xmc: indeed
08:16 πŸ”— SmileyG laters :D
08:16 πŸ”— xmc l8r
08:19 πŸ”— godane got some good news with labrats
08:20 πŸ”— godane i maybe able to save all of it
08:20 πŸ”— godane some of it will be in wmv format cause the mov files of them are gone
08:22 πŸ”— omf_ godane, If you have a spare invite for myspleen could you pm one to me please? I am going to help SmileyG back the whole site up
08:25 πŸ”— godane i may start backup the divx format of the show
08:26 πŸ”— godane its bigger then the quicktime files
08:26 πŸ”— godane also episode 52 of labrats in wmv had a bad index
08:30 πŸ”— omf_ godane, I am going to grab those LOTR promo dvds you mentioned
08:30 πŸ”— godane ok
08:31 πŸ”— godane there is also prometheus promo dvds too: http://www.myspleen.org/details.php?id=11958
08:35 πŸ”— omf_ okay quick question godane. The details page for LOTR says "Free Leech: No" is that the whole starred thing or does it mean the Freeleech ON site status does not apply to this item? I could not find an answer in the FAQ
08:37 πŸ”— godane i think the freeleash on is for everything
08:38 πŸ”— omf_ Do I still earn upload KB while freeleech is on?
08:45 πŸ”— godane yes
08:46 πŸ”— SmileyG yup
08:46 πŸ”— SmileyG i already got the prometeus promo
08:46 πŸ”— SmileyG or most of it
08:46 πŸ”— godane cool
08:46 πŸ”— SmileyG * Prometheus
08:46 πŸ”— SmileyG * 16039.0 / 16080.9
08:46 πŸ”— SmileyG I was first leech :D
08:47 πŸ”— SmileyG [T R: 1.74]
08:51 πŸ”— SmileyG So omf_ if you can figure out a plan...
08:52 πŸ”— SmileyG Amount of Data Seeded: 4.33 TB
08:52 πŸ”— SmileyG Amount of Unseeded Data: 9.97 TB
08:52 πŸ”— SmileyG tbh if someone can, someone could prob seed the whole dang site
08:57 πŸ”— godane just know you don't have to mirror starcade
08:57 πŸ”— godane i have it on archive.org
10:51 πŸ”— omf_ I have an important announcement. My whole life I have been searching for something and I have finally found it. This would be my dream job -> http://www.theramenrater.com/
10:52 πŸ”— omf_ Instant Ramen breakfast, lunch, and dinner
11:04 πŸ”— * BlueMax puts the straitjacket on omf_
11:04 πŸ”— BlueMax It's gonna be OK man, it's gonna be OK
11:12 πŸ”— omf_ You don't even have to cook it to enjoy it! (Γ’ΒœΒΏΓ’Β—Β Γ’Β€ΒΏΓ’Β—Β )
11:14 πŸ”— * BlueMax puts omf_ in the padded cell
11:16 πŸ”— godane have any one seen attack on titan?
11:16 πŸ”— godane its a new anime series
11:16 πŸ”— BlueMax I have
11:16 πŸ”— omf_ ヽ(*゚ー゚*)Γ―ΒΎΒ‰
11:16 πŸ”— godane its awesome
11:17 πŸ”— omf_ ヽ(゚ー゚*ヽ)
11:17 πŸ”— omf_ (Γ―ΒΎΒ‰*゚ー゚)Γ―ΒΎΒ‰
11:17 πŸ”— omf_ ヽ(*´Д`*)Γ―ΒΎΒ‰
11:17 πŸ”— omf_ Γ£ΒƒΒ˜(Γ―ΒΏΒ£Γ£ΒƒΒΌΓ―ΒΏΒ£Γ£ΒƒΒ˜)
11:18 πŸ”— * BlueMax throws omf_ out the window
11:18 πŸ”— omf_ Γ£ΒƒΒ˜(Γ―ΒΏΒ£ΓΒ‰Γ―ΒΏΒ£Γ£ΒƒΒ˜)
11:18 πŸ”— omf_ (Γ£ΒƒΒŽΓ―ΒΏΒ£ΓΒ‰Γ―ΒΏΒ£)Γ£ΒƒΒŽ
11:18 πŸ”— * omf_ shaves BlueMax
11:18 πŸ”— omf_ BAM
11:19 πŸ”— * BlueMax shaves omf_
11:20 πŸ”— godane http://www.takuchat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/aot-1.jpg
11:20 πŸ”— * omf_ counter-attacks with gopherchucks
11:20 πŸ”— godane thats the fake movie poster someone made
11:20 πŸ”— omf_ http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u40/travisroks9/Gopher-Chucks.jpg
11:28 πŸ”— * BlueMax shaves winr4r
11:54 πŸ”— winr4r dude i actually do need a shave right now
11:55 πŸ”— BlueMax success!
12:57 πŸ”— omf_ ヽ`、ヽ`ヽ(*Γ―ΒΏΒ£oΓ―ΒΏΒ£*)>ヽ`、ヽ`
13:05 πŸ”— * BlueMax shaves omf_
13:49 πŸ”— SmileyG omf_ / godane * done 16080.9 MB Rate: 256.5 / 0.0 KB Uploaded: 52928.1 MB [T R: 3.29]
13:49 πŸ”— SmileyG Thats how you get a awesome ratio :D
16:02 πŸ”— ersi SmileyG: "awesome" ratio
16:02 πŸ”— ersi :D
16:10 πŸ”— joepie91 "A working copy of the HTTP 2.0 spec has been released. Unlike previous versions of the HTTP protocol, this version will be a binary format, for better or worse. However, this protocol is also completely optional: 'This document is an alternative to, but does not obsolete the HTTP/1.1 message format or protocol. HTTP's existing semantics remain unchanged.'"
16:10 πŸ”— joepie91 >HTTP
16:10 πŸ”— joepie91 >binary format
16:10 πŸ”— joepie91 welcome to debugging hell
16:15 πŸ”— omf_ I think they caught the douchbaggery that the systemd developers have
16:15 πŸ”— omf_ fucking binary logs
16:16 πŸ”— omf_ go eat a rotting corpse
16:17 πŸ”— omf_ We'll see if HTTP 2.0 can catch on being a binary format
16:17 πŸ”— omf_ I mean just think of how many tools are going to have to change to deal with it
16:17 πŸ”— joepie91 omf_: they've already realized that
16:17 πŸ”— joepie91 "does not obsolete HTTP/1.1"
16:18 πŸ”— joepie91 if your new version doesn't obsolete the old version... yeah well
16:18 πŸ”— ivan` SPDY is already deployed in Firefox and Chrome and nginx
16:25 πŸ”— ivan` /var/log/messages makes less sense now that we have a lot of machine consumers of logs who do not want to parse things and deal with format changes
16:25 πŸ”— ivan` journalctl has some pretty handy options too
16:26 πŸ”— ivan` there have been a ton vulnerabilities from parsing logs wrong
16:27 πŸ”— omf_ Yes systemd has some really good ideas in it
16:27 πŸ”— omf_ but non-text logs in a unix environment
16:27 πŸ”— omf_ eek
16:28 πŸ”— omf_ I like the extensible nature and the more advanced timestamp and position information systemd offers
16:37 πŸ”— joepie91 omf_: heh, wtmp
16:47 πŸ”— ersi Well, if it's in a place where debuggability can take a hit.. fine with binary, like underlaying protocols.. But HTTP is pretty damn useful to debug and there's a million different shitty softwares that parse HTTP diffrently
16:47 πŸ”— ersi then again, maybe the different ways of parsing HTTP would completely go away with a binary protocol that'd seriously break if the bits were in the wrong positions
16:48 πŸ”— joepie91 ersi: I think we've all seen how well that worked for XML....
16:49 πŸ”— ersi Depends on where it's used
16:50 πŸ”— ersi oh, yeah - nonsense error messages when parsing XML ftw
16:55 πŸ”— winr4r wat
16:55 πŸ”— winr4r making HTTP a fucking binary format?
16:55 πŸ”— winr4r that would have been a shitty design decision in like 1991, back when the fucking backbone was slower than my internet connection
16:56 πŸ”— winr4r oh god i don't even
16:57 πŸ”— antomatic But it's for "the internet of things", so that coke machines and coffee makers don't have to wait for their responses, and don't have to hurt their little chips trying to interpret them. :)
16:58 πŸ”— ivan` we have mobile devices and people in china and they have high latency
16:58 πŸ”— winr4r antomatic: yeah because parsing a few hundred bytes of text is so taxing on modern computers
16:58 πŸ”— ivan` SPDY fixes head-of-line blocking issues
16:58 πŸ”— antomatic :)
16:59 πŸ”— ivan` anyway if you can trick your computer into reading ASCII you can also trick it into reading binary data
16:59 πŸ”— ivan` after all, you've got a computer in front of you
17:00 πŸ”— ivan` anyone who's implemented HTTP knows it isn't so ASCII
17:01 πŸ”— ivan` good luck reading and writing chunked encoding with your brain, etc
17:05 πŸ”— winr4r that looks like a good reason to fix HTTP, not to make it a binary protocol
17:10 πŸ”— ivan` if you want multiple streams in one TCP connection, you are going to have a bad time making a human-readable protocol
17:11 πŸ”— winr4r yes
17:31 πŸ”— Aranje delicious delicious spdy
17:32 πŸ”— joepie91 ivan`: I used msgpack for that, which is indeed technically binary
17:32 πŸ”— Aranje which reminds me, I need to read the specs to alpn and tls-npn and see why we're all moving to alpn
17:33 πŸ”— joepie91 multiplexing is fun!
17:33 πŸ”— joepie91 actually no I didn't
17:33 πŸ”— joepie91 I'm just using msgpack for data encoding
17:34 πŸ”— joepie91 I use a homebrew binary format for the multiplexing
17:34 πŸ”— * Aranje thinks of zeromq as a possible solution
17:34 πŸ”— Aranje it's one of the things I need to dig into more
17:35 πŸ”— Aranje because arbitrary transport layers sounds sexy as hell
17:35 πŸ”— Aranje it'll be useful to know when I get my sprinklers and other house sensors to report things to me
17:51 πŸ”— joepie91 0mq is quite nice, judging from the presentation so far
20:27 πŸ”— * SmileyG ponders
20:27 πŸ”— SmileyG so yeah you've all confused me D:@
20:30 πŸ”— ersi 0mq = zeroMQ
20:30 πŸ”— SmileyG yeah still utterly lost :D
20:30 πŸ”— SmileyG only thing I know, binary logs sound bad D:
20:30 πŸ”— SmileyG I don't have a rpoblem with logs being natitively unreadable
20:31 πŸ”— SmileyG but that's not the same as them being binary
20:31 πŸ”— ersi it isn't necessarily bad. The conversion to text could be in a tool such as cat or grep etc
20:31 πŸ”— SmileyG well that'd be invalid use of cat
20:31 πŸ”— SmileyG and rather stupid use of grep?
20:31 πŸ”— SmileyG awk !
20:31 πŸ”— ersi winr4r: It isn't taxing for a single system, that does few. It is, however, for systems doing that full time
20:32 πŸ”— SmileyG sed.
20:32 πŸ”— SmileyG etc
20:32 πŸ”— ersi I said "SUCH AS"
20:33 πŸ”— ivan` I'm sure someone will make a Python thing for people who can't build journalctl
20:33 πŸ”— SmileyG ersi: ...... not going to argue it, anyway
20:33 πŸ”— ivan` after all, Python is the universal computing substance
20:33 πŸ”— SmileyG ivan`: yeah great, until for what ever reason python doesn't work anymore
20:33 πŸ”— SmileyG If I can read it from the hex...
20:33 πŸ”— SmileyG can't*
20:34 πŸ”— ivan` yeah, like say if the Python people decide to replace Python with an incompatible language they still call Python
20:34 πŸ”— SmileyG indeed.
20:34 πŸ”— SmileyG So I don't get what a binary log offers, that a readable log doesn't
20:34 πŸ”— SmileyG even if it's almost unciferable
20:34 πŸ”— SmileyG and means nothing at a glance, as long as you can think about it in a short amount of time, then fine
20:34 πŸ”— SmileyG but looking at a log and it being written out like asm instructions, no thanks!
20:35 πŸ”— ersi Like storage and/or computing and/or complexity savings?
20:35 πŸ”— ersi Text can be quite complex to parse.
20:35 πŸ”— ivan` I think systemd does JSON now for the people who really want JSON
20:35 πŸ”— SmileyG I need real world examples ersi :/
20:35 πŸ”— ersi Use your mind and think about it instead
20:35 πŸ”— * SmileyG 'splodes
20:36 πŸ”— ivan` https://freedesktop.org/www/Software/systemd/json/
20:36 πŸ”— ivan` SmileyG: if you have binary length indicators you can create in-memory structures faster
20:36 πŸ”— SmileyG heh
20:37 πŸ”— SmileyG you need to talk to me as a non-programmer
20:37 πŸ”— SmileyG I'm a sysadmin
20:37 πŸ”— SmileyG the programemrs start screaming a system is acting up
20:37 πŸ”— SmileyG if I can't just less /var/log/messages then I'm not happy.
20:37 πŸ”— ivan` okay, instead of less /var/log/messages you just type journalctl
20:37 πŸ”— ivan` that puts you in the less pager
20:37 πŸ”— ivan` messages are color-coded by severity
20:38 πŸ”— SmileyG what if one of those _UDEV_DEVNODE=/dev/\"this\ node/has/a/weird/name
20:38 πŸ”— SmileyG ivan`: what if I'm on a windows box?
20:38 πŸ”— SmileyG and I only have scp?
20:38 πŸ”— SmileyG what if the disk is dead
20:38 πŸ”— SmileyG I've recovered part of the log file via dd.
20:39 πŸ”— SmileyG so theres nothing at the beinging of the log saying "this is how it's layed out" etc?
20:39 πŸ”— SmileyG it's all coded either to one standard throughout every log ever, or journalctl knows how every single app logs differently, or it won't work?
20:40 πŸ”— ivan` I think you can also run a syslog that will log to plaintext
20:40 πŸ”— ersi what if what if what if
20:40 πŸ”— SmileyG ersi: yes
20:40 πŸ”— SmileyG thats my job
20:40 πŸ”— SmileyG asking what if
20:40 πŸ”— ersi please think of this for me
20:40 πŸ”— ersi and this, and this
20:40 πŸ”— SmileyG because when I don't ask what if, assholes get all high and mighty, and can't accept they fucked up.
20:40 πŸ”— SmileyG ersi: if you don't want to answer, then don't.
20:40 πŸ”— SmileyG Don't cry about not answering.
20:41 πŸ”— SmileyG And don't cry about me asking questions about something I don't yet understand either.
20:41 πŸ”— SmileyG Strangely I learn by asking questions, concidering the answers, and exploring futher.
20:41 πŸ”— SmileyG Known as the scientific method.
20:42 πŸ”— ersi It's of course okay to ask questions, but sometimes one can really sound like a douche asking questions that could just use some thinking.
20:42 πŸ”— SmileyG ersi: does syslogd state anywhere how binary logs are set out. I don't know. I don't know what to search for as I'm not a programmer
20:42 πŸ”— ersi I'm not a programmer either.
20:42 πŸ”— SmileyG therefore I need someone to assist translating from teh language I use, into whatever programmers talk.
20:42 πŸ”— ersi Oh no, now we can't have a conversation
20:43 πŸ”— SmileyG So far you haven't helped at all
20:43 πŸ”— SmileyG ivan`: did. <Shrug>
20:45 πŸ”— SmileyG Anyway I'm off to bed.
21:18 πŸ”— joepie91 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu7ZpWecIS8
22:19 πŸ”— godane some tell me whats wrong
22:19 πŸ”— godane i ran sane-find-scanner
22:19 πŸ”— godane got this: found USB scanner (vendor=0x07b3 [PLUSTEK INC], product=0x1301 [USB2.0 SCANNER]) at libusb:001:005
22:19 πŸ”— godane i ran scanimage -L
22:19 πŸ”— godane and it can't be found
22:24 πŸ”— godane i even add this to my libsane udev rules: ATTRS{idVendor}=="07b3", ATTRS{idProduct}=="1301", MODE="0660", GROUP="lp", ENV{libsane_matched}="yes"

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