[00:02] *** lytv has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [00:08] *** mistym has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [00:23] *** mistym has joined #archiveteam-bs [00:25] *** lytv has joined #archiveteam-bs [00:30] *** primus104 has quit IRC (Leaving.) [00:35] *** BlueMaxim has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 512 seconds) [00:35] *** Famicoman has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 512 seconds) [00:45] *** BlueMaxim has joined #archiveteam-bs [01:00] Greek ISPs could be the new Swedish ISPs [01:09] *** Famicoman has joined #archiveteam-bs [01:19] *** nico_32_ is now known as nico_32 [01:20] hm? [01:43] All society goes to shit, nothing to lose, host any crazy thing as long as it pays [02:01] so i'm up to 2014-07 of medium.com sitemap posts [02:04] *** Famicoman has quit IRC (ircd.choopa.net irc.eversible.com) [02:04] *** BlueMaxim has quit IRC (ircd.choopa.net irc.eversible.com) [02:04] *** xmc has quit IRC (ircd.choopa.net irc.eversible.com) [02:04] *** dan- has quit IRC (ircd.choopa.net irc.eversible.com) [02:10] *** Famicoman has joined #archiveteam-bs [02:10] *** BlueMaxim has joined #archiveteam-bs [02:10] *** xmc has joined #archiveteam-bs [02:10] *** dan- has joined #archiveteam-bs [02:10] *** irc.eversible.com sets mode: +o xmc [02:10] *** swebb sets mode: +o xmc [02:11] *** BlueMaxim has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 512 seconds) [02:18] *** Stiletto has joined #archiveteam-bs [02:21] *** Start has quit IRC (Disconnected.) 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[09:32] *** mistym has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 512 seconds) [09:34] Hello. [09:34] Attempting to promote an archiveteam project on r/linux/: http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3a5796/sourceforge_archivalreplacement_effort/ [09:34] also posting here [09:45] *** kvieta has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [09:52] *** kvieta has joined #archiveteam-bs [10:12] *** GLaDOS has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [10:17] *** kvieta has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [10:19] *** GLaDOS has joined #archiveteam-bs [10:19] *** kvieta has joined #archiveteam-bs [10:24] *** mistym has joined #archiveteam-bs [10:28] *** mistym has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [10:48] *** bzc6p_ is now known as bzc6p [11:02] *** Muad-Dib has joined #archiveteam-bs [11:46] *** BlueMaxim has joined #archiveteam-bs [12:06] *** primus104 has joined #archiveteam-bs [12:25] *** mistym has joined #archiveteam-bs [12:29] *** RichardG has joined #archiveteam-bs [12:30] *** mistym has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [12:59] *** sankin has joined #archiveteam-bs [13:26] *** McGEE has joined #archiveteam-bs [13:26] *** mistym has joined #archiveteam-bs [13:31] *** mistym has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) [13:34] *** BlueMaxim has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [13:39] *** primus104 has quit IRC (Leaving.) [13:40] *** human39 has joined #archiveteam-bs [14:27] *** Start has quit IRC (Disconnected.) [14:32] *** mistym has joined #archiveteam-bs [14:34] http://thequietus.com/articles/18004-sound-library-british-library [14:38] I can't stop watching the Shenmue [14:39] I have never played this stupid game. I just love watching gamers rip themselves apart. [14:42] *** mistym has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [14:42] *** mistym has joined #archiveteam-bs [14:43] *** mistym has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [14:44] arkiver: posted a reply; https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3a5796/sourceforge_archivalreplacement_effort/cs9i6z7 [14:44] (as a reply to that post) [15:09] *** mistym has joined #archiveteam-bs [15:37] *** McGEE has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) [15:39] *** xtr-201 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 370 seconds) [15:52] *** mistym has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [15:56] *** primus104 has joined #archiveteam-bs [15:57] *** Start has joined #archiveteam-bs [16:08] *** mistym has joined #archiveteam-bs [16:27] *** xtr-201 has joined #archiveteam-bs [16:45] *** Start has quit IRC (Disconnected.) [16:50] *** aaaaaaaaa has joined #archiveteam-bs [16:50] *** swebb sets mode: +o aaaaaaaaa [16:53] *** SimpBrain has joined #archiveteam-bs [16:59] *** Start has joined #archiveteam-bs [17:00] joepie91: you win the best comment I read so far this year award! [17:00] https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/3a5796/sourceforge_archivalreplacement_effort/cs9l1y4 [17:07] *** primus104 has quit IRC (Leaving.) [17:10] *** Stiletto has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [17:27] *** bzc6p_ has joined #archiveteam-bs [17:27] *** swebb sets mode: +o bzc6p_ [17:29] *** bzc6p has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [17:35] *** SimpBrain has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [17:35] *** dashcloud has joined #archiveteam-bs [17:41] *** Start has quit IRC (Disconnected.) [17:51] *** bzc6p_ is now known as bzc6p [18:00] *** SimpBrain has joined #archiveteam-bs [18:03] gotta love archiveteam people [18:03] "i have a few hundreds of free terabytes which are connected with 40gbit which i could offer for a few months" from #coldstorage :) [18:14] *** Stiletto has joined #archiveteam-bs [18:21] aaaaaaaaa arkiver achip dashcloud chfoo yipdw antomatic closure garyrh ersi Kazzy midas DFJustin SimpBrain schbirid Start and others [18:21] (I've already mentioned, but you are some of the important members whose opinion can't be dismissed. The list is not complete of course.) [18:21] I know some of you are quite busy, but let me mention it now, as I don't know how long I can stay in the main channels. [18:21] When you have time, please look at http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=user:bzc6p/Restructuring_projects_pages. [18:21] I suggested a change in projects pages layout on the wiki, the details and a link to a preview is in that proposal. [18:22] If you're interested please take a look at it and I'd like to have your feedback. If you like it, I think these would be good changes. [18:22] Modifications may be made or suggested. In case there are objections, the pages stay as they are now. [18:22] Thanks. [18:22] PS: xmc, joepie91: I replied to you, haven't received counter-replies. [18:22] PPS: I'll be AFK for like an hour, will be back after that (and later) to read the possible comments. [18:22] PPPS: xmc, apologies for the mail style. Couldn't find a different way. [18:22] anything done to thew iki can only improve it [18:23] make all the pages orange on blue! [18:23] bzc6p: the proposal and mockup look fine to me [18:24] I'd also like to know more about your skepticism on ArchiveBot, especially whether the problems are merely technical or more fundamental [18:25] active projects expanded, upcoming expanded, future ones collaped [18:25] maybe encourage the site users to claim smaller jobs and archive them on their own profile pages [18:26] *archive/document [18:26] hm, not a fan of collapsed things [18:27] but those tables are nice [18:27] agreed [18:38] *** SimpBrain has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [18:52] I wonder if rather than finished projects being in bold, active ones should be. That way they are easier to spot. [18:55] *** SimpBrain has joined #archiveteam-bs [19:01] *** Schrodin_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [19:02] *** Schrodin_ has joined #archiveteam-bs [19:07] *** Start has joined #archiveteam-bs [19:07] *** SmileyG has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 492 seconds) [19:15] *** Start has quit IRC (Disconnected.) [19:24] *** primus104 has joined #archiveteam-bs [19:28] *** Start has joined #archiveteam-bs [19:36] *** Start has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [19:36] *** Start_ has joined #archiveteam-bs [19:40] schbirid: well, the sections could be expanded, but then I find the page way too long and section headers confusing, even with having a TOC, but it may be only my taste. [19:42] SimpBrain: The first section, Current Projects, contain all the upcoming and current projects, the other sections are just for "the historical record" and to have all of one project type together. The tables within one project type, I think, should't be split to future/current/past, the table can be sorted and newest projects are on the top by default (new entries should be added there). [19:44] SimpBrain: That way, Current Projects could be expanded while the others not. But then wouldn't the other types of projects become "invisible"? Now everything is in front of the viewer. (I don't know if they would scroll down and surely find them). [19:45] SimpBrain: well, if one user started to dominate the Small Projects table very much and there were too many projects in there (which is not the case at the moment), that would be a good way. [19:46] Or, if there were a lot of users adding projects there. BUT: this one is easier to search. (If someone wants to find out whether a site is/was archived, just Ctrl+F) [19:47] aaaaaaaaa: the Warrior table didn't get much change, that is how chfoo marked them. I agree with you, though. [19:47] just needs a nice balance between the mammoth jobs and the small ones [19:48] aaaaaaaaa: colors can be adjusted, I'm not a graphic designer :) [19:49] yipdw: thanks. I think I should have omitted that sentence, but my skepticism is only technical. ArchiveBot is a great thing for those who don't have the resources and/or aren't familiar with tools. Advanced users may like to follow the progress on their machine and intervene if necessary. But not this is the point. [19:50] The point is: too few websites can be archived in automated ways, per my experience. [19:51] true so many code their site so its hard to grab the content even visible on the page [19:52] I must archive a bunch of different websites now, and almost none of them can't be archived without discovery, often painstakingly. I suck a lot with them. Javascript menus are just the first step, Ajax GET thingies when I start hate JS, and Ajax POST when the tableflip comes. [19:55] *** Start_ is now known as Start [19:55] yipdw: This is not a problem with ArchiveBot, that's a great thing. What I am skepticistic about is if one issues !a example.com and then sits back and says "Great, example.com archived.". Well, I know how much work it is to discover a site structure so I don't blame anyone who don't/can't take the effort, but we just can't say that simply that ArchiveBot saves websites. Maybe some of them, and some parts of them. (Of course, if one generates an urll [19:55] ist, the grab can be made more complete) [19:57] Of course, maybe I'm just too unlucky, there are indeed a lot of websites that can be grabbed fairly. (Some of them look like that but aren't, e.g. save a login.php for every post, or get into an infinite loop with a calendar. But the JS is the most pain, and too many sites overuse it.) [19:59] -------------- [20:00] the nightmare ones are the video sites if they die [20:00] so much content could be lost [20:01] So, basically, the ones who replied so far, like the idea to put tables like that on a single page embedded from other pages, showing all projects on one page in such sections. [20:02] The differences in opinions are about collapse or not, fonts and color if I understand well. Fortunately, all these can be changed easily even later. [20:03] (I encourage you to contradict me or insist on your ideas, I usually don't insist on mine and let others "win". I also await your counterreplies.) [20:09] is there a 'lightweight js' project, which is not a full browser stack (like phantomjs), but allows for scraping js for ajax and links? [20:09] perhaps one which 'understands' common js libraries like jquery [20:10] I always wondered why a webbrowser+wget combo hasn't born yet [20:10] *** mistym has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [20:10] Well, not always, just recently [20:11] the problem is the 'web browser scraper' is quite heavy [20:12] Sorry, but I can't miss Start from asking (pingign) about http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=user:bzc6p/Restructuring_projects_pages (he was away then). He's a very active wiki editor. [20:17] i like http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=User:Bzc6p/Projects better than the existing pages [20:18] editing will be a lot quicker, getting rid of the outdated channel list on the IRC page will be nice too [20:19] Thanks. Embedding the content is a bit strange but I don't know if it would be good to shove everything on a single page. Plus, that way a table can be embedded from somewhere else also [20:19] . [20:19] It's not long to learn the structure I think. But this move may be wrong also. [20:21] i also think the "Archive Team News" and "Recently Ended Projects" sections should be removed from the main page and put elsewhere for historical purposes [20:21] Start: yes, I also thought of that for long - nobody updates them and they can be found in the projects tables. [20:23] *** Smiley has joined #archiveteam-bs [20:24] *** Start has quit IRC (Disconnected.) [20:24] They could be, for example, put on Main page/News archive or something [20:24] *** mistym has joined #archiveteam-bs [20:24] 6 users are able to do that as the Main page is protected. http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Special:ListUsers&group=sysop [20:28] So, if we expanded Current Projects, I think a TOC would be necessary, but that's so long it would push everything more down. [20:29] *** mistym has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [20:30] *** mistym has joined #archiveteam-bs [20:34] bzc6p: ah yes [20:34] yeah, URL discovery is a pain, and Javascript etc make it even worse [20:35] we actually do grab quite a bit, but you're right that it is currently not easy to verify the result [20:35] I have at present a very manual and laborious process to import WARCs into a pywb instance for preview, and we do have the fetch logs; we however can do a better job of making them accessible [20:37] we do have a web-browser + wget combo with wpull+phantomjs (setting aside phantomjs quirks); one big thing we're missing is the ability to script interactions beyond "scroll" [20:38] I think http://archivebot-prod3.at.ninjawedding.org/main/20150611193249/http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-paul-ford-what-is-code is pretty representative of the fidelity we can get for single pages; full sites is harder to verify [20:39] who needed a wiki sysop [20:42] yipdw: the sites I've met don't rely on scrolling, more on ajax queries and other shit [20:43] tbh, if it was possible i think it would be okay to unprotect the main page, or at least make it so it's not cascade-protected so news can be updated by non-admins, since we don't have a major problem with malicious users, but 1) i'm not sure that's possible 2) not my decision to make, that'd need jason approval [20:43] someone should find out about 1) [20:43] ! [20:44] bzc6p: yeah, sites that lazy-load on e.g. click/keypress are a pain [20:46] winr4r: It would also be a solution like with Current Projects: editable on a non-protected page and embedded into the protected main page. BUT, as I said, it's probably unnecessary and redundant, given that we('ll) have a projects page [20:56] Now I must go. I'd appreciate others' opinions (if any) about the wiki restructuring and the counterreplies (if any) of those who already spoke. Thanks for the input so far. Good night. [21:00] *** sankin has quit IRC (Leaving.) [21:04] *** mistym has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [21:04] *** mistym has joined #archiveteam-bs [21:06] *** mistym has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) [21:14] *** Kenshin has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [21:14] *** Kenshin has joined #archiveteam-bs [21:15] *** antomatic has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [21:16] *** antomatic has joined #archiveteam-bs [21:16] *** swebb sets mode: +o antomatic [21:17] *** edsu has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [21:17] *** edsu has joined #archiveteam-bs [21:17] *** swebb sets mode: +o edsu [21:17] *** brayden_ has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [21:18] *** Sk1d has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 606 seconds) [21:20] *** zhongfu has joined #archiveteam-bs [21:20] *** chfoo has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [21:21] *** chfoo has joined #archiveteam-bs [21:21] *** Sk1d has joined #archiveteam-bs [21:21] *** Schrodin_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 606 seconds) [21:22] *** mistym has joined #archiveteam-bs [21:22] *** Sue_ has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [21:22] I like the new layout. [21:22] *** dashcloud has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 606 seconds) [21:22] In the How to use this page table, you could remove the bullet pointed descriptions of each table as you already described them individually. [21:23] e.g. "Current Projects for currently active projects." repeats "Currently active team projects you can get involved in." [21:23] *** Schrodin_ has joined #archiveteam-bs [21:23] *** zhongfu_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 606 seconds) [21:24] Also, "How to use this page" doesn't have to be collapsed. 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