#archiveteam-bs 2017-05-31,Wed

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Time Nickname Message
00:10 🔗 timmc So this is for writing large amounts of data to optical disks?
00:12 🔗 godane most likely to grab tons of discs
00:22 🔗 timmc Oh I see, it's mostly a feeder built around an all-purpose optical drive.
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04:30 🔗 braxxox_ Hey all, I'm curious if folks over here have played with using ipfs for archiving purposes.
04:30 🔗 braxxox_ Or what general interest level in something like that would be?
04:31 🔗 jrwr braxxox_: it has been brought up in the past
04:32 🔗 jrwr IPFS is not remote storage, just a way to access eomething on someone's machine
04:33 🔗 braxxox_ Any movement on it? @jrwr, yeah not remote storage but a great way to keep a lot of stuff safe in a lot of different places. And increase bandwidth.
04:33 🔗 jrwr This is true and has been discussed for internetarchive.bak, but the current system they have is what the community is going to stick with for now
04:34 🔗 braxxox_ Yeah of course :)
04:34 🔗 jrwr also IPFS has a bigger flaw that will prevent it from replacing the web for the most part
04:34 🔗 braxxox_ Oh yeah? What's that?
04:34 🔗 jrwr Its static, its very hard to have a webapp in IPFS
04:35 🔗 braxxox_ Very few users, haha
04:35 🔗 jrwr the internet is moving away from static data and more to a community
04:35 🔗 braxxox_ being limited to static content is both a curse *and* a blessing
04:35 🔗 jrwr if I could build a forum based community on IPFS I would like to see it being done
04:35 🔗 braxxox_ Because dynamic content is shit for archiving
04:35 🔗 jrwr It is and is not
04:36 🔗 braxxox_ IPFS + directory watchers I'm sure it could be done
04:36 🔗 MrRadar A key limitation with IPFS is that, from what I understand, it requires someone to "pin" the data in order for it to actually stick around
04:36 🔗 jrwr Yep
04:36 🔗 MrRadar If an organization like the IA provided public pins of archive-worthy data everyone would abuse that
04:36 🔗 braxxox_ true. There are just so many more moving parts with dynamic content. Plus likely nothing will run your setup in a few decades.
04:37 🔗 jrwr I would say javascript will still be around in 2050
04:37 🔗 jrwr 2100, hrm, maybe
04:37 🔗 braxxox_ yes the language but not the web browser apis of 2017
04:37 🔗 MrRadar Well, we know JS sticks around through 2035 at least ;) https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript
04:38 🔗 braxxox_ @MrRadar if IA pinned content you think folks would only leech?
04:38 🔗 braxxox_ At least enough to ruin the bandwidth?
04:38 🔗 jrwr Overall, I don't see the web changing much in how its run in the next 50 years, Tech will change, sure but the World Wide Web will still be here
04:39 🔗 jrwr Its like IPv4, that shit should of died in 2000
04:39 🔗 braxxox_ Yeah I don't realistically see HTTP going anywhere fast. Everything is built on it.
04:39 🔗 jrwr The internet is like running a social network
04:39 🔗 braxxox_ lol true. Nobody wants to read ipv6 addys out loud haha
04:39 🔗 jrwr trying to start a new internet has a chicken and egg issue
04:40 🔗 jrwr Look at the issues IPv6 is having to even get started
04:40 🔗 jrwr braxxox_: It sucks, but a /64 or /48 is not too bad
04:40 🔗 braxxox_ I'm not saying ipfs will replace the web. I definitately don't think it will. but I thnk it has some amazing affordances and the distributed nature and content addressing are both super plusses for archiving.
04:41 🔗 jrwr ]
04:43 🔗 braxxox_ I've been playing with ipfs over the past couple of days and I've got some motivation to work on setting up an archive of some sort and just seeing what happens. If nobody downloads then so be it, that would speak for itself. But any content that y'all might think would be of particular interest for such an endevor?
04:49 🔗 jrwr It works great as a kind of CDN
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04:56 🔗 braxxox_ oops just lost my internet connection. Not sure if anybody responded to that ^. If not carry on and sry 4 tha noise.
04:57 🔗 jrwr IPFS is really just a P2P CDN
04:58 🔗 jrwr Anyway, since with archiving the data is mostly about saving the data and not serving it
04:59 🔗 jrwr presenting the data is up to the future people who will want the data.
05:00 🔗 jrwr IPFS Use case is nice for like a bittorrent but for websites
05:01 🔗 jrwr but as with turrents
05:01 🔗 jrwr if the seeds dry up, the torrent is gone
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05:07 🔗 braxxox_ yeah that is the real danger. Especially with something as new as ipfs. Who knows how long it will be maintained?
05:07 🔗 braxxox_ or actively developed.
05:08 🔗 braxxox_ That said I don't think it is a bad idea to try. Even if at a somewhat philosophical level. Or to go through the motions of exercising the data.
05:08 🔗 jrwr between IA and textfiles
05:09 🔗 jrwr Also the best way I can think of to store ia.bak is QR codes on paper
05:09 🔗 jrwr that would last forever
05:09 🔗 braxxox_ Because ultimately, if everyone the web worked more like ipfs we would not have so much of the linkrot that currently crushes the web.
05:09 🔗 jrwr Ish
05:09 🔗 braxxox_ between IA and textfiles?
05:09 🔗 jrwr if the underlying storage goes kaboom it and another source is trying to link to it
05:09 🔗 jrwr it stills rotten
05:10 🔗 jrwr Internet Archive and Text-Files are the two biggest stores of archival computer data that I know of
05:12 🔗 braxxox_ Of course. But if the content it distributed and the act of accessing the data serves to dissiminate it the long tail of machines that still have it a decade later could still be very long.
05:13 🔗 jrwr This is true
05:13 🔗 braxxox_ Much better than our current situation. Content is on 1+ machine and all it takes is for the sysadmin to keel over and its gone for good.
05:14 🔗 jrwr overall
05:14 🔗 jrwr nothing is stopping you from trying to get people on board to do backing up things to IPFS
05:15 🔗 braxxox_ Yeah I hope we see a shift towards more distributed content store in the future. I think we would all be better off for it :)
05:15 🔗 braxxox_ Ok yeah, I'm gunna try it. I'll ping back here if I land anywhere of interest. Thanks for the mussings about :)
05:15 🔗 jrwr braxxox_: check out #internetarchive.bak
05:15 🔗 braxxox_ will do, thx
05:15 🔗 jrwr they are the nerds that handle the biggest project that AT covers
05:16 🔗 braxxox_ sweet
05:16 🔗 jrwr oh!
05:16 🔗 jrwr http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=INTERNETARCHIVE.BAK/ipfs_implementation
05:16 🔗 jrwr looks like the IPFS devs have something in the works
05:17 🔗 braxxox_ oh no way!
05:17 🔗 braxxox_ Oh no, last modified March 2015 :(
05:17 🔗 braxxox_ But they at least seem like at one point they were open to it.
05:18 🔗 braxxox_ I don't wan't to introduce noise is all. They are up to some awesome stuff and I am sure they have themselves pretty busy.
05:18 🔗 braxxox_ I will bring it up over there though. IPFS has matured a lot since 2015.
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06:47 🔗 PurpleSym greenie: Makes sense.
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11:55 🔗 godane SketchCow: you getting the Fox Network Premiere of Wolf
11:55 🔗 godane recorded back on 1997-10-28
11:56 🔗 godane this a 125 minute movie crammed to be 2 hours with commercials
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14:13 🔗 SketchCow Steam Forums is starting to be uploaded.
14:33 🔗 joepie91 obligatory note that IPFS is absolutely not designed for archival purposes
14:33 🔗 joepie91 it's a distribution mechanism, not a storage mechanism
14:44 🔗 Kaz SketchCow: i have ~330gb of appnet sitting about that hasn't been uploaded yet. Can I push it over to FOS if your stuff is still running over there
14:46 🔗 SketchCow Yes
14:47 🔗 SketchCow FOS is in goodish shape at the moment.
14:47 🔗 Kaz will start sending it over now, cheers
14:58 🔗 SketchCow The CD-ROM autoloader thing is working amazingly.
14:58 🔗 SketchCow Except when the CD goes to shit but that'd be my life anyway
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16:21 🔗 kittymeow what makes me really sad is
16:21 🔗 kittymeow http://ipetcompanion.com/
16:23 🔗 kittymeow hours of groundbreaking virtual cat interactions unrecorded https://voatpic.me/image/6CB5BB35A2
16:31 🔗 Somebody2 Lord_Nigh: I'd say re-send your email to info@ with a note about it having maybe gotten lost in the cracks.
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17:14 🔗 schbirid oops, ran into a non-javascript based quiz thingie on a website. wpull seems to have gotten all the combinations of all the quizzes quite well. 4 million files, 300GB D:
17:15 🔗 xmc hahahah
17:16 🔗 schbirid wget would have OOMd early in
17:44 🔗 SketchCow https://archive.org/details/tednelsonjunkmail
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18:09 🔗 schbirid can i make wpull only write to a warc, not also store all the files?
18:10 🔗 MrRadar Yes, use --delete-after
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18:19 🔗 schbirid awesome
18:20 🔗 schbirid what does "after" refer to? immediately after downloading and parsing?
18:23 🔗 MrRadar Yes, as far as I can tell
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21:09 🔗 godane so i got the hbo airing of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garth:_Live_from_Central_Park
21:09 🔗 godane It was later edited and released on VHS, followed by its 2006 DVD release, retitled Live in Central Park, in Brooks' The Entertainer video collection.
21:10 🔗 godane since it said edit i think they may have change something
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22:54 🔗 jrwr SketchCow: you going to Defcon this year, Always wanted to go a talk of yours
22:56 🔗 Kaz huh, didn't realise googlebots use phantomjs
22:56 🔗 jrwr I would think they would convert over to chrome
22:56 🔗 xmc they do run chrome
22:57 🔗 Kaz just noticed while searching, maybe the pages haven't been updated in a while https://s.kurt.gg/64F8EYM.png
22:57 🔗 jrwr Interesting
22:59 🔗 xmc hm. i read somewhere in one of their blogs years ago that they run headless chrome
23:00 🔗 jrwr the amount of CPU that must take
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