#archiveteam-bs 2017-09-19,Tue

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WhoWhatWhen
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odemggodane, https://i.imgur.com/eV1bXZD.png << wtf?
SketchCow, so IA didn't get tape guys tapes?
[01:06]
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odemggodane, https://i.imgur.com/EZOGmx4.png [01:10]
godanei'm reading the forum post now [01:12]
secondHas this been archived? https://www.manualslib.com
JAA: ^
[01:14]
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odemggodane, I'm saddened that this ended up at MySpleen and not with archive.org, there's 18 years of video and a small, obscure torrent tracker got it over the internet archive? That makes no sense whatsoever. It's safe to say this won't end up being archived properly and the physical tapes wont end up being preserved. I honestly can not believe after speaking to Jason he decided to go with some random guy from
a torrent site.. it makes me cringe to think that this collection will be parted out and go to waste.
[01:20]
godanei fully get that
i prefer IA getting it but i just hope this guy has some sort of 8 to 12 vcr tape grabber
i also hope he put its at 60 or 120 on dvd5 size
my tapes are about 4.7gb per a 120 minutes
which is 5192kbps
192kbps is for the mp3 audio
[01:22]
odemgthat's something I didn't even think about, he's not even going to have the storage or bandwidth to get these out... fuck me!! Come on SketchCow don't let this happen :/ [01:34]
godaneodemg: plus side is is you got over 100+ tapes from me over the last few months
i upload them to myspleen then upload them to FOS
[01:36]
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godaneodemg: https://archive.org/details/@jason_scott?&sort=-publicdate&and[]=mediatype%3A%22movies%22&and[]=collection%3A%22vhsvault%22 [01:38]
odemgI'm out of local storage at the moment, only 9TB free of 1.6PB slowly moving over to x265 to get a little space back (re-encoding from source on my 720p tv series stuff) not planning any significant storage upgrades until around feburary (56x10TB iron wolf drives) [01:39]
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SelaviI doubt the seller knows this guy is doing it for a tracker, but to choose some guy over the IA... [01:57]
odemgSelavi, we should make him aware... it's fucking insanity to give it to MySpleen! [02:08]
Selaviagreed [02:08]
hook54321wtf? why?
Why on earth
Live stream from IA starts soon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzVyIy4baFg
[02:09]
I could drive over to the VHS guy's house and demand to know why. :P [02:16]
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hook54321okay, so I emailed the VHS guy...
I got an name of the future owner of the collection
*a name
https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/MzCiCNHt/
Here's the response I got:
https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Hk4j8Hk1/
And now he's forwarding me a bunch of threads
[03:20]
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Selavihmm [03:26]
hook54321From looking at the threads, it looks like he was giving it to whoever could get there first.
https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/aCh4yK2O/
https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/5x9XlNnw/
https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/KnMPWw73/
https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/E9Yvwxge/
https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/BXnPtFrc/
https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/e76O3sS4/
That was from yesterday ^
[03:34]
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godanehook54321: i need to get some of those vhs tapes
but i may only do about 50 to 100 at a time
[04:04]
hook54321At this point if IA isn't going to get them, then I think we should be mostly concerned about where they're going to be stored and how quickly they will be digitized, since the longer they are stored improperly the lower the quality the end result will be.
Do you live in/around Oregon?
[04:06]
godanei'm in NH
so i'm no where near there
[04:06]
hook54321ah. ok. [04:07]
godanewe may have to go after toysrus : https://www.toysrusinc.com/press/toysrus-inc-commences-court-supervised-processes-to-implement-financial-restructuring [04:08]
hook54321This might be a long shot, but I was thinking about having some sort of event at a high school in oregon or something where we would try to get tons of volunteers to come and help digitize them. However, I'm not very familiar with the equipment involved, so I don't know how portable everything needed to digitize them is.
lol, should we start saving toysrus ads that we get in the mail? :P
[04:09]
godanei was hoping there was a archive of them somewhere [04:12]
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SketchCowhook54321: Please calm the fuck down [04:33]
godaneSketchCow: so what exactly happen with the tape collection?
i thought you said you guys had it
[04:36]
SketchCowNo, I never said that.
I said that IA was willing to work with whoever COULD take it and do the work of digitizing it, and we'd be there if things got to the point he couldn't find a home.
A safety net, not a first line of defense.
[04:37]
godaneoh ok [04:38]
SketchCowWe'll work with the myspleen guys
Who are in Portland, and right there
[04:38]
godanethat makes sense [04:39]
hook54321ah ok [04:39]
godanea part of me hopes the guy has like 8 to 12 vcrs to digitize it
cause other wise it will take forever
[04:40]
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hook54321I was under the impression that private torrent trackers generally like to keep their content exclusive [04:47]
SketchCowPirvate torrent trackers work with us [04:48]
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godanei upload alot of myspleen vhs stuff to FOS [04:53]
hook54321I haven't really heard of MySpleen before. Sounds interesting.
When was there registration last open?
[04:54]
godanei want say over a year ago maybe
no invites for the moment
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ranmaodemg: how are you retaining grain with x265?
last i tried --deblock -3:-3 (or whatever is a good x265 equiv) was in no way coming close to x264
i really want to know, too
[05:24]
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Asparagirhttp://rhizome.org/editorial/2017/sep/18/rhizome-to-host-national-forum-on-ethics-and-archiving-the-web-march-22-24-2018/
okay, they're getting $100,000 in government money to talk about ethics in game journalism...er, web archiving
[06:19]
Froggingi know of someone who headed a research team who got $60 000 from the Canadian government to research furries
tru fax
[06:21]
AsparagirOne of the people putting that conference together once lectured me on Twitter, back when my account was unlocked, for daring to archive some Black Lives Matter related videos that people were publicly posting to Twitter and Facebook. In other words, he was ANGRY that we were archiving it. [06:21]
Froggingoh so maybe it's going to be one of *those* talks about how we shouldn't archive things [06:22]
AsparagirRIGHT.
His belief was that it is up to marginalized communities to decide what should and shouldn't be archived, and how to best present that material -- even though they purposely just posted it all to social media!
He wants archives -- who must be headed by people with MLIS degrees, I guess? -- to ask permission to archive public materials on the web. And he calls thaht ethics.
Still wasn't as bad as the time that one of his friends, a very well known archivist/librarian at an Ivy League University, also lectured me over Twitter about how he wanted to delete the Library of Congress' copy of the Twitter archive, that he felt like that data should be destroyed.
[06:22]
Froggingwhy though [06:26]
AsparagirIt didn't entirely make sense to me. But his point seemed to be that it's wrong to turn the panopticon on the materials that people choose to publish, because people and institutions often react differently and sometimes unfairly to who is doing the publishing.
But my gut feeling is that these people are information gatekeepers who cosplay as archivists.
They don't want certain information to be available unless they get to be the one who decides it should be available.
Anyway, that's a $100,000 grant from the MLIS for this upcoming "ethics" conference. Good thing no museums or libraries could have used that money, eh?
[06:27]
Froggingyeah :/ [06:30]
Asparagir...by the way, did that Canadian furries research ever lead to a publication? That would be fun to read. :-) [06:31]
FroggingI am not sure [06:31]
hook54321I don't see how people could be honestly angry about stuff like that [06:31]
Frogging:p [06:31]
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[06:32]
hook54321If I see something that I think will be deleted, I try to not take into account my personal views on the subject, I just try to make sure that it's saved. [06:40]
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AsparagirGood. [06:42]
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JAAsecond: Doesn't look like it has. It looks massive though. [08:44]
2.7M manuals, that'll easily be over 100M pages.
Which means it's definitely way too big for ArchiveBot.
Also, the downloads are behind reCAPTCHA... :-/
[08:51]
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godaneJAA: i looked into manualslib.com
we can grab it
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/121874/A.html
it auto redirect to the page
we can at least web grab the thing
[08:57]
JAAYes, we can grab it as HTML, but we won't be able to get the PDFs.
You can actually just recursively grab the entire thing through wpull et al., that should find all manuals and all pages.
[08:59]
godaneto grab image of manual : https://data2.manualslib.com/big_image/big_image.php?id_manual=121874&page=1
wget will work with that
[09:01]
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JAAI know. I never said it can't be archived. [09:02]
godaneat worse i will figure a way to use the auto redirect to make cbz files [09:02]
JAAHave you found a way around the captcha on downloads? [09:02]
godanethat way we have ${number}_$(name}.cbz [09:03]
JAAJust to be clear, I mean this: https://www.manualslib.com/download/121874/Peripheral-Electronics-Pghhd1.html [09:03]
godanei know [09:03]
JAALooks like they know what they're doing.
The download URL contains a token specific to each file, and I don't see a way to get it without solving the captcha.
[09:14]
godaneso i think the cbz way maybe the best way then [09:16]
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[09:20]
JAAHmm, that big_image.php page doesn't seem to work for everything though.
For example, the last page of that manual 404s: https://data2.manualslib.com/big_image/big_image.php?id_manual=121874&page=16
As does your link now, wat?
After refreshing the HTML page, it works again...
[09:21]
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[09:23]
godanei think i know why [09:23]
hook54321https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/05/google-recaptcha-brought-to-its-knees/ [09:24]
godaneits cause it needs --referer https://www.manualslib.com/ [09:24]
JAAOh [09:24]
godaneneverymind [09:24]
JAAWait, no, that can't be the reason. My browser doesn't send a referrer. [09:25]
hook54321I got it to not show the captcha thing, once, i think at least.
If you try to access it through TOR it has a different captcha system it makes you do.
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godaneJAA: i found this: https://data2.manualslib.com/big_img_log/no300_ref_history.txt [10:07]
anyways i may look at manualsonline.com [10:13]
JAAmanuallib.com is also a good candidate. 704k manuals, downloadable directly. [10:17]
godanethanks for manuallib.com link
it looks way better with filenames
[10:25]
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dd0a13f37hook54321: what do you mean? I get regular recaptcha 2 with tor
I see what you mean now, like on this page https://www.manualslib.com/manual/121874/Peripheral-Electronics-Pghhd1.html?page=2#manual ?
>https://www.manualslib.com/divine_code.php?id=46.165.223.217&rnd=42779718
easy to crack, you can get it from a different IP and still keep hte id? parameter the same
It's always the same, refresh will just cause it to render again
and it doesn't have lines noise or background
So regular OCR will work just fine
"the cbz approach" is not as simple as you htink it is, it also has rendered text on top
[13:57]
godanei figured that out
there is text at the bottom of pages saying its from manualslib.com
[14:04]
dd0a13f37Could you post a pdf url? It doesn't work at all with tor
the recap v2
https://www.manualslib.com/contacts.html?message=Error+code+1402%2C+%28104.223.123.98%29&topic=Download+error
"error 1402"
If you can't download your manual for any reasons - for example, you have problems with the captcha - please, fill this form. Please, tick the box below to get your link:
[14:06]
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[14:17]
godanein case anyone here want some wwf videos: http://smtp.bob-consulting.net/ [14:24]
dd0a13f37Is it a dropzone or something?
Or did they just name the domain bob-consulting
[14:27]
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godaneno idea
i just found it
i was looking up vhsrip on filepursuit.com
and that came up
anyways i'm of to bed
bbl
[14:28]
qwebirc12I found a video about a north korean IT exhibition where they appear to talk about ubuntu the other day
I have a question
What about sites with stateful CMSes, like KCNA?
If you pull the WARC files into wayback, you're just going to get random language pages
It uses server-side state instead of a ?lang=XX parameter
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hook54321dd0a13f37: This is interesting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Star_OS [15:11]
dd0a13f37The pyongyang books website actually runs on it
you can download a .iso too
but they mainly use cracked chinese winxp/win7
for example in the bg of pyongyang IT expo you can see win7 backgrounds, and kroea books site uses \r\n, not \n
[15:13]
hook54321pyongyyang? [15:15]
dd0a13f37Yes, it's a video on kcna.kp [15:16]
hook54321Where'd you find an ISO? [15:16]
dd0a13f37google read star os iso
https://archive.org/details/RedStarOS
https://my.mixtape.moe/dysoqm.mp4 here is the video
[15:16]
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dd0a13f37Manualslib is quite shoddily constructed
external smtp provider, frontend is a patchwork, sends your password hash in every cookie, "ts.php not found"
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icediceHow do I remove administrator privileges from my main local user account in Windows 10? I have a second local user account that has administrator privileges that I'd like to use authorize software that requires administrator privileges while logged into an account without administrator privileges. [15:59]
dd0a13f37Log in to other account -> manage user accounts?
Why are you using windows 10?
[16:00]
icediceIt's a gaming computer
I neutered it though: https://github.com/10se1ucgo/DisableWinTracking
[16:08]
dd0a13f37"neutered"
Install windows 7, it works just as well
[16:09]
icediceI use whatever I want
I dislike Windows 10, but that's where things are going
Windows 7 and 8 got spy updates anyway
They're better, but still the same toxic pile of shit
[16:10]
JAARegarding how shitty manualslib.com is: They also serve a PDF as application/pdf by default, but if you add a "take=binary" parameter to the URL, they serve it as binary/octet-stream to force browsers to download it. [16:12]
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dd0a13f37It shows up as tiff in my browser
Easiest way if you want to bulk download is probably: get a bunch of clean IPs, see if you can force it to legacy captcha,
use some of the applications that already exist for them (shouldn't be too hard- you can segment them easily), then you use archivebot for the actual download (most commercial proxy providers are ~50kbit or charge per bandwidth and the PDF dl is unauthed (how it usually is- CDNs are dumb))
for the actual download (most commercial proxy providers are ~50kbit or charge per bandwidth and the PDF dl is unauthed (how it usually is- CDNs are dumb))
[16:28]
JAAAn alternative would be one of those captcha solving services. But honestly, before going down either of these routes, I'd rather just grab the HTML version and focus on other, more easily archiveable sites. It's not like manualslib.com is the only repository of user manuals. [16:38]
dd0a13f37Captcha solving costs $2/1000
That's extremely expensive for a million or two manuals
It would likely be cheaper to just hire someone with extensive web security knowledge and so on
For $2000 you could buy a shitton of proxies and scrape more interesting services than some manual dump
[16:39]
JAAYeah, exactly. Not really worth it at that point. [16:41]
dd0a13f37Until recently manualslib only had 700k manuals
and manualsonline right now has 300k
so they likely just scraped another site
[16:46]
joepie91_try https://mesnotices.20minutes.fr/ instead
they have a pile of manuals and last I checked they were freely downloadable
[16:47]
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JAAAny idea about the numbers? [16:49]
dd0a13f37The numbers? On mesnotices? [16:49]
JAAYeah, how many manuals they have. [16:49]
dd0a13f37560k+ judging from id parameter [16:50]
JAAI've seen an ID of almost 6M, that doesn't seem right. [16:51]
dd0a13f37https://mesnotices.20minutes.fr/014159.php?ID=5955995&k=18bbfd9b88e5d1b8eaa36702300ee324&q=LENOVO%20MOTO%20G4%20PLAY
oh never mind I can't count
But most seemed to be in 5-6m range
however
>Vous n'avez pas correctement saisi le code de verification.
[16:51]
JAAAlso, the allegedly newest manual has an ID of around 5.4M: https://mesnotices.20minutes.fr/last-add/1 [16:51]
dd0a13f37I don't speak french but I can make out "correct" "code" "verification" [16:52]
JAA"You haven't entered the verification code correctly." or something like that.
My French's a bit rusty.
[16:52]
hook54321It must be annoying for people that speak other languages to oftentimes have their URLs based on English. [16:52]
joepie91_dd0a13f37: hm? I get straight PDF embeds
when I hit the telecharger button
[16:53]
JAASame
It's handled with JavaScript though. Not sure if wpull would be able to pick it up.
[16:53]
dd0a13f37No, why?
You could always script it and then get the pdf links
and feed it to !ao < .txt
[16:53]
JAAYeah, I'd probably write a wpull plugin to handle that.
Just wanted to mention it.
An !a will probably not be sufficient.
[16:55]
dd0a13f37Do you really _need_ six million download pages in french? ALso, can't wpull use phantomJS [16:55]
JAAI still doubt it's anywhere close to 6M pages, honestly.
And yes, wpull can use PhantomJS, but it's pretty horrible.
[16:56]
dd0a13f37They don't seem to be autoincrementing
There are large gaps
[16:56]
JAAIt causes massive duplication.
Because each URL is retrieved in an individual PhantomJS process and thus re-downloads all page resources every time...
[16:56]
hook54321Ignore some of the page resources? [16:57]
dd0a13f37Can't you use a caching proxy? [16:57]
JAAI guess so, but then you're back to scripting. It's probably easier to just extract the PDF's URL with a wpull plugin (i.e. some string processing in Python). [16:57]
icedicebut thanks for the advice anyway, I'll try it [16:58]
dd0a13f37and then dump it into !ao
and then dump it into !ao
joepie91_: Is this a big site? Are they well-known in France or anythinglike that/
[16:58]
JAANah, add it to the wpull list directly.
20min is a "newspaper" (more like a tabloid really).
[16:59]
joepie91_dd0a13f37: no idea, I found them when looking for a manual for my washing machine
they were the only site carrying it
and I'm not exaggerating
:p
[16:59]
JAAAt least some of the stuff is in French. Well, that'd be a mess to upload cleanly to IA.
To upload the PDFs as individual items, I mean.
[17:00]
dd0a13f37Don't you just dump them all in a folder named "20minutes pdf manuals", then that's 1 item? [17:01]
JAAYou could do that, but then finding the manual for a particular device isn't exactly easy.
I have to go. I'll look at that again later. I have an idea for how to get an estimate of how many manuals they have.
[17:02]
DFJustinone item per manual is better [17:04]
dd0a13f37Won't that be painful? What's the best practice for creating some thousands of items? [17:05]
astridthere is a tool!
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/internetarchive
[17:05]
hook54321!ao https://twitter.com/LeonieWatson/status/910027469394243584 --phantomjs [17:06]
joepie91_dd0a13f37: big items are a much bigger problem for IA than many items [17:06]
hook54321oops [17:06]
joepie91_in terms of infra [17:06]
dd0a13f37in terms of me
That seems neat, could use that to archive all the NK pdfs
But I can't use that to add from URL, so I need to download them all as WARC, right?
The page info is absolutely uninteresting, it's just GET something.php?id=XXX that gives you a .pdf file with Content-disposition
[17:07]
hook54321I'm surprised that no one has leaked the W3C's press conference yet. [17:09]
dd0a13f37Aren't they under NDAs and stuff? [17:11]
hook54321Probably [17:12]
dd0a13f37I don't understand, haven't EME been in HTML for a long time?
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/jun/06/html5-drm-w3c-open-web
[17:15]
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icediceApparently I only had to reboot for the account settings changes to take effect
So that's why it didn't work for me initially
[17:20]
hook54321dd0a13f37: It has been in web browsers, but it just became an official standard by the W3C [17:22]
dd0a13f37if it's in chrome it's a standard, if not it's completely irrelevant, so why is this a big deal? [17:24]
hook54321Can't explain right now, gotta be somewhere soon. I'll be back in about 3 to 5 hours. [17:28]
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JAASo I'm running a discovery on the 20min manuals archive now. Assuming they don't ban me, I'll have a good estimate for the number of manuals tomorrow morning. [20:33]
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[20:43]
JAAActually, the discovery is already done.
joepie91_, dd0a13f37: There are approximately 292742 manuals on that 20min site.
This is from grabbing the sitemap and running zgrep -Po '(?<=href=")/manuel-[^/]+/[^/]+/[^/]+(?=")' 20min-manuals-sitemaps-00000.warc.gz | awk '!seen[$0]++ { count += 1 } END { printf "%d\n", count }'
[20:47]
..... (idle for 21mn)
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.... (idle for 18mn)
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....... (idle for 31mn)
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[22:06]
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godanei'm grabbing Eli the Computer Guy videos
i'm only doing the -f webm version cause thats how i started it
[22:33]
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[22:39]
odemgtrue
godane, see what I already uploaded though too
godane, https://archive.org/details/@ohhdemgirls?and[]=subject%3A%22Youtube%22&and[]=creator%3A%22eli+the+computer+guy%22
[22:40]
godaneok then
i will finish the 2013-01 upload then stop
i stopped upload it
that saved 8gb
turned out i had 4.6gb of webm for just 2013-01 so i say screw uploading that
[22:42]
odemg:3 [22:46]
godanejust know there are at least 500+ videos
you only have 306
[22:47]
odemgtrue [22:48]
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[23:02]
.... (idle for 19mn)
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