| Time |
Nickname |
Message |
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00:02
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
how is windows 10 going for people? |
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00:03
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
I'm a loonix user so I'm not paying a lot of attention |
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00:03
🔗
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wp494 |
better than 8.1 |
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00:03
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wp494 |
even though I use 7 |
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00:03
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wp494 |
I used to use in between 7/10 9879 but explorer.exe GDI leaks happened |
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00:04
🔗
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wp494 |
that on top of steamservice.exe crashes meant it was back to 7 for me |
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00:04
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
My only windows computers use 7 (the newer one) and XP (this one's so old it uses a parallel port on a laptop) |
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00:05
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
but windows 10 - is the UI on par with 7? |
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00:05
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wyatt8760 |
or just slightly lower but higher than 8/8.1 |
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00:07
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wyatt8760 |
having had to use 8 at work for about 5 months, I was incredibly glad to have administrative permissions so I could make it not shit |
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00:14
🔗
|
wp494 |
well for starters, the start menu is back |
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00:14
🔗
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SketchCow |
I heard we're supposed to drop using linux because linus is mean |
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00:14
🔗
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wp494 |
(pun not intended) |
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00:14
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
SketchCow: what!? |
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00:14
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
Also, what'd he do |
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00:15
🔗
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SketchCow |
Apparently if you battle an entrenched monopoly and multiple huge industrial interests for 20 years, you should come out the other end being nice |
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00:15
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
wp494: that's good. |
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00:15
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
SketchCow: what did Linus do? Also, I agree if that's sarcastic |
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00:18
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wyatt8760 |
also, SketchCow: I hope you're just switching to *BSD or something if you do have to switch |
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00:19
🔗
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yipdw |
Linus displayed yet again why he's like C |
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00:19
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
I happen to like C :| |
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00:20
🔗
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yipdw |
old, dangerous, poor introspection capabilities and occasionally awkward |
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00:20
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
Compared to object oriented languages and BASIC at least |
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00:20
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
awkward being the data types? |
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00:20
🔗
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yipdw |
it's a simile |
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00:21
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
the C datatypes, linus' general awkwardness at something |
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00:22
🔗
|
closure |
SketchCow: <mjg59> The future is dosbox in javascript running uae running linux running firefox running dosbox in javascript |
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00:22
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
lol |
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00:22
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
I literally did LOL |
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00:23
🔗
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RedType |
a human centipede of emulation |
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00:25
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
I like emulation a lot, but I would do it all in dosbox in javascript running UAE running Linux running Firefox running dosbox in javascript on an Apple ][ |
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00:26
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
which is being emulated on a TI-89 |
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00:26
🔗
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yipdw |
#-bs |
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00:26
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
yep |
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00:41
🔗
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joepie91 |
yipdw: we're just emulating #archiveteam-bs :) |
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00:43
🔗
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wyatt8760 |
:P |
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00:45
🔗
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wp494 |
yeah I think we should take the stuff to ring 0 (-bs) |
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00:46
🔗
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wp494 |
and more chitter chatter on archiving the feedback forum/insider hub |
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GLaDOS sets mode: +o SketchCow |
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01:55
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SketchCow |
Hey HEY hey |
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01:55
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SketchCow |
Textfiles.com is back and I'm back on it. |
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01:55
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yipdw |
guess who's back / back again |
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01:56
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SketchCow |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf7JoHXQbUQ |
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01:56
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SketchCow |
This is mostly what's playing when I come into the room |
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01:57
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SketchCow |
Now I get to play "what were all those channels again" |
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SketchCow |
Zing. |
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joepie91 |
http://www.jonbuder.com/ |
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joepie91 |
this site doesn't seem to accept any useragents from the past decade |
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joepie91 |
probably needs archiving |
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joepie91 |
(yes, you read that right, it doesn't recognize the useragent) |
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joepie91 |
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.2; ru; rv:1.9.2.11) Gecko/20101012 Firefox/3.6.11 |
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joepie91 |
works |
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garyrh |
it's in archivebot now, useragent is safari-windows. |
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garyrh |
seems to be working okay. |
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garyrh |
weird that it doesn't like firefox, but wget and curl are totally fine. |
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midas1 |
what the heck joepie91 :P |
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midas1 |
You are banned from this site due to a unknown user-agent. |
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midas1 |
chrome :X |
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SketchCow |
Fuck Chrome, those guys are sketchy |
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norbert79 |
1~ |
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norbert79 |
1~ |
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norbert79 |
eh, bad terminal |
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Nemo_bis |
What user agent does heritrix use? Does IA ever pretend to be something different? |
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SketchCow |
No |
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SketchCow |
We're the black ops |
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arkiver |
#inkerasers is now running with manga items |
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dugo |
hya rogue archivists |
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21:25
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dugo |
i ran into a lead |
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21:26
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dugo |
i was listening to a IETF BoF about network history |
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21:27
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dugo |
https://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf86/ietf86-caribbean1-20130311-1540-pm2.mp3 |
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21:28
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dugo |
at 01:06:13 there is a certain Kent Landfield offering his USENET archive from 1982 - 1992 |
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21:28
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dugo |
he tells he ran a shop called Netnews/CD |
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21:31
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dugo |
i thought this was the same 'o crap that was junked into the circular bin called groups.google.com |
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antomatic |
oo |
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schbirid |
whoa |
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21:37
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dugo |
but .. |
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21:37
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dugo |
if i can believe the wikipedia on Usenet |
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21:38
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dugo |
he only gave google late 1991 through early 1995 |
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21:40
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dugo |
i know there is usenet archive material available from the same period, but having run a large usenet site myself i know that every site has its holes |
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antomatic |
Was trying to remember a site someone mentioned once... |
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antomatic |
olduse.net |
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antomatic |
that has 1985 today |
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antomatic |
so presumably some archives of that period are in the wild |
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antomatic |
agreed it seems like something there should be a definitive archive of |
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antomatic |
(somewhere) |
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dugo |
well, him going to that BoF meeting in 2013 doesn't sound like he is overly confident that it is archived very well |
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schbirid |
mail him https://twitter.com/bitwatcher/status/538367729343168513 |
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21:47
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dugo |
i looked on archive.org's usenet collection, but they are a bit vague from who they got some of the material |
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21:47
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arkiver |
did someone here already mail him? |
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21:48
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dugo |
schbirid: i'll gladly do, but thought i'd ask here first if i didn't overlook some place where these CDs or tars are already secured |
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21:48
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antomatic |
Ah, got it |
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21:48
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arkiver |
dugo: if you can, please mail him |
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21:48
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antomatic |
it's in Jason's talk at Defcon 19 |
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21:48
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antomatic |
"So what's this? Guy with nine track tapes. Guy's got Usenet. That is Usenet from 1981 to 1991, all right. So here's what happened. So basically, this stuff is what became Dejan, went into the Google purchase of Deja News, which then became Google Groups, and Google then proceed to ruin it. Okay, if you know anything about Usenet, they ruined it. Unequivocally." |
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antomatic |
"And we made a very important discovery. A lot of people are starting to think of Google as some sort of archive or library. That they're storing all this data, they're running ads, they're really storing all this data. But Google is a library or an archive in the same way that a supermarket is a food museum. These guys are basically gonna do whatever they gotta do." |
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21:49
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antomatic |
"So we took it, we took back, we found the original archives that Google had taken, we put them up on Archive.org. The UTZOO tapes. And people are doing with them - an Archive Team member did this. Not really associated with us, but did it and is part of us. Olduse.net. He is doing a real time posting of Usenet with a thirty-year lag. So you can go on, connect with the newsreader, and go experience |
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antomatic |
what it was like." |
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21:50
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dugo |
antomatic: it could be wrong, but from what i gathered Kent Landfield contributed 1991-1995 and the older stuff was utzoo |
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arkiver |
I'd say mail him |
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21:50
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antomatic |
Mm, I read this as being UTZOO was 81-91 |
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21:50
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arkiver |
it's important to archive his archive |
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21:50
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schbirid |
that recording is 2013, defcon 19 was earlier i think |
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21:50
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arkiver |
we'll see later if it's a duplicate |
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21:50
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dugo |
antomatic: but Kent, in that BoF meeting is offering 1981 to 1991 |
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antomatic |
The same years as Utzoo? |
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21:51
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antomatic |
(Just trying to understand if this is the same collection, or different) |
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21:51
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dugo |
i didn't check path headers for it, but if kent just got a feed from utzoo, there is probably nothing extra in it .. but at least i would love to see the CD artwork preserved somewhere |
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21:53
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dugo |
sorry he is offering 1982 - 1992, not 81 |
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DFJustin |
the utzoo archive is far from complete for the later years covered as well |
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21:55
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dugo |
looks like it is at least worth pursuing the details of his archive, correct? |
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21:56
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DFJustin |
the cds are hard to come by I think, sketchcow has had feelers out for a long time iirc |
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21:56
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dugo |
i'm not overlooking a big usenet archive of CDs |
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21:56
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DFJustin |
everything I know of that's publicly available is in https://archive.org/details/usenet |
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21:59
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DFJustin |
well actually http://katsu.watanabe.name/unifiedfj/ isn't except for the ancientfj collection |
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dugo |
i saw that, but it is a bit hard to match "a generous donor" |
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DFJustin |
I assumed it was the same stuff dejanews had that google acquired, but yeah they're being coy about it |
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DFJustin |
jason often gets details wrong when speaking off the cuff |
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dugo |
ok. i'll dig a bit further through the IETF material to see if anything ever came out of his offer .. try to get the details of his caches, and if it won't add any new msg-ids prod him for the ISOs and artwork just for the heck of archiving stuff |
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22:09
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DFJustin |
that's the spirit |
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closure |
dugo: hi, I run olduse.net. utzoo runs to 1991 only, if he has 1992, I think that could be different. |
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23:27
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|
closure |
the newer stuff on archive.org, which is probably coming from google groups somehow, seems to start in the mid-90's, I have not dug into it extensively yet, but at least it didn't have 92 |
|
23:30
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|
closure |
of course, utzoo is not complete either. For example, hack's origina source posting was recently replayed on olduse.net, but it was missing part 15/15, so I can't build it. Sooo frustrating. |
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23:35
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dugo |
yeah, i figured Kent's comment in that BoF meeting requires some follow up, just to be sure |
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23:35
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|
closure |
(actually, utzoo has a couple posts that at least claim to be from 92. But it really drops off around 90. It has a couple posts with a 2020 date, for that matter..) |
|
23:36
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dugo |
if only to get stories out of it .. on how that deal with google went down back in the day |
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23:37
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|
closure |
there's also one truncated tar file in the utzoo haul that made it to archive.org. I assume google got that file |
|
23:38
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dugo |
i hace utzoo uncompressed on a filesystem |
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23:39
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dugo |
tell me about date issues and usenet :/ |
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23:39
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dugo |
i worked at former eunet/kpnqwest on 31/12/99 .. |
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23:40
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|
closure |
ok.. https://joeyh.name/blog/entry/date_formats_of_a_decade_of_usenet/ :) |
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23:40
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xmc |
that sounds like it would have been fun, dugo... |
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23:40
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closure |
I parsed them all. :) |
|
23:40
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dugo |
2 years they spent on Y2K problems |
|
23:40
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closure |
heh, I saw the 1st mention of Y2K on olduse.net just this week |
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23:41
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dugo |
all corporate stuff was fixed |
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23:41
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dugo |
1/1/00 highwinds usenet software broke down |
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23:42
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dugo |
eunet/kq .. being descendent of of the old mcvax .. had a lot of sites dependend on us |
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23:43
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closure |
mmm, mcvax |
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23:43
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dugo |
mcvax was the first main uucp/usenet gateway into europe |
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23:44
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closure |
yeah, I was familiar with the name and I see it right in the middle of the first map that included europe. |
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23:44
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closure |
it's also the site that hack was 1st posted from. :) I am enjoying watching hack turn into nethack over this year |
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23:45
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closure |
that already made a net.games.hack group. so close guys ;) |
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23:46
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dugo |
mcvax became mcsun .. eunet begot mcsun .. qwest begot eunet .. joint ventured with kpn (former dutch PTT) .. became kpnqwest .. kpnqwest did hollow swaps with worldcom (former uunet) and went bust |
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23:47
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closure |
it's weird seeing the first commercial entries. If you remember stargate, that is the most interesting flamewar on olduse.net right now.. |
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23:47
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closure |
partnership with WTBS to broadcast moderated usenet in the vertical blank interval of a satellite feed |
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23:47
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closure |
death of usenet predicted, film at 1985 :) |
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23:48
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SketchCow |
closure and dugo hey hey |
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23:48
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closure |
yo |
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23:48
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SketchCow |
So, as I understand it, archive.org actually has all the usenet now. |
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23:48
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SketchCow |
Except binary. |
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23:49
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SketchCow |
There MAY be a gap in UTZOO-1993 or something |
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23:49
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closure |
SketchCow: it certianly has a lot. I am worried there might be a 1991-1992 gap, but like I said, I have not dug into the later stuff extensively |
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23:49
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closure |
yeah |
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23:49
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SketchCow |
So, for example... and bear in mind I JUST woke up |
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23:50
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closure |
I am going to need a bigger machine if I ingest all that. Maybe in 5 years it will be cheaper to get a VPS with multiple terabytes |
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23:50
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SketchCow |
Giganews has been giving us everything from, like 2001 to now. |
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23:50
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SketchCow |
So, that's, like, handled. |
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23:51
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DFJustin |
google had only sketchy coverage of UTZOO-1995 when dejanews started, iirc they had some cds from a set but not all |
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23:51
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SketchCow |
https://archive.org/details/usenethistorical |
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23:51
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dugo |
SketchCow: i'm not strictly after filling in missing messages .. i believe Kent Landfield has at least an interesting story worth preserving |
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23:51
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SketchCow |
https://archive.org/details/giganews |
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23:51
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closure |
DFJustin: I suspect google might have not bothered with some A news posts, which were a different format in the utzoo archive. Not sure.. |
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23:51
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SketchCow |
https://archive.org/details/usenet there we go |
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23:52
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SketchCow |
That's us going through |
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23:52
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SketchCow |
And trying to combine everything. |
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23:52
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closure |
SketchCow: ooh, I had not seen /giganews |
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23:53
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DFJustin |
there are a couple miscellaneous items in /usenet as well |
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23:53
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closure |
oh BTW, someone left a post in the olduse.net out.going messages file (which is like, never going to post!) pointing out that there was a European network similar to usenet before it got on usenet |
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23:53
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DFJustin |
https://archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3Ausenet%20-collection%3Ausenethistorical%20-collection%3Agiganews%20-mediatype%3Acollection |
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23:54
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closure |
" before the academic usenet became open for non-academic sites there was |
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23:54
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DFJustin |
yeah there was stuff like BITNET and fidonet |
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23:54
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closure |
subnet in wide parts of europa. Only in the early 1990ths both systems |
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23:54
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closure |
finally merged" |
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23:54
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closure |
subnet |
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23:55
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SketchCow |
So, in summary, let me say. |
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23:55
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SketchCow |
1. There's the UTZOO archive on archive.org. It's rather complete for those years. |
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23:56
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SketchCow |
2. Someone gave us a "special" collection. That one overlaps, I BELIEVE. |
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23:56
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SketchCow |
3. Giganews has been giving us ALL the non-binary newsgroup stuff they have, roughly 2000-2002 or something to now. |
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23:56
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SketchCow |
THAT SAID |
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23:57
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SketchCow |
4. We kind of have a deal with Giganews that THEY get to announce they did this. So it's there-not-there |
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23:57
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SketchCow |
5. We haven't had a person like Closure connect the dots, truly, to get the big picture |
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23:57
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DFJustin |
there used to be a post at https://web.archive.org/web/20110514012530/http://groups.google.com/group/google.public.support.general/msg/d88f36fb3e2c0aac detailing all of the archives that went into google groups and the dates covered |
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23:57
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DFJustin |
it looks like web.archive.org is parsing the robots.txt wrong though, it shouldn't be blocked |
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23:57
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SketchCow |
6. We really should, but we didn't make an appeal because of 4. |
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23:58
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dugo |
SketchCow: do you know what Netnews/CD '82-'92 (pre-giganews) material Kent Landfield is refering to in that IETF BoF meeting in 2013? |
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23:59
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SketchCow |
No. |
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23:59
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DFJustin |
it would be nice if someone would look at the robots.txt bugs in the wayback machine, I've emailed info@archive.org before and gotten squat |
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23:59
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dugo |
ok, i'll stick to the plan then |
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23:59
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closure |
dugo: so, I have a guess. I guess it's not utzoo (because that was not made public until the truckload-of-tapes happened). So, separate archive, would almost certianly contain stuff that didn't make it to utzoo or was lost. |