#archiveteam 2011-09-20,Tue

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Time Nickname Message
01:00 🔗 dashcloud from reddit: Best Buy's circular, 15 years ago: http://gregarious24.imgur.com/best_buy_flyer_september_1996
01:01 🔗 dnova haha wow
01:01 🔗 dnova that's great.
01:01 🔗 dnova 7.9 oz. Cellular Phone
01:01 🔗 dnova only $70 for a pager
01:02 🔗 dnova I love this stuff
01:52 🔗 dashcloud someone's collected all the RadioShack catalogs here: http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/
01:55 🔗 SketchCow DOOSHBAG
01:55 🔗 SketchCow Yeah
01:56 🔗 SketchCow http://ascii.textfiles.com/archives/1558
01:58 🔗 DFJustin lmao
02:03 🔗 dashcloud thanks for setting me straight
02:03 🔗 Coderjoe http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/catalogs/1939/pages/001.jpg
02:03 🔗 Coderjoe http://www.radioshackcatalogs.com/catalogs/1939/pages/002.jpg
02:04 🔗 Coderjoe looks easy enough to snag out of the evil flash viewer
02:07 🔗 SketchCow If you read my article, you see I did that.
02:07 🔗 SketchCow Tell you what, let me throw those fuckers right on up.
02:07 🔗 SketchCow http://pdf.textfiles.com/catalogs/RADIOSHACK/
02:07 🔗 Coderjoe i hadn't gotten that far in yet
02:09 🔗 SketchCow My theme song for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3bfR3RKdO0
02:11 🔗 Coderjoe Get freaky like my lady pyramid!
02:11 🔗 SketchCow You think I got these CATALOGS by being slow? I got this 'cause I'm faaaaaaaaaaaaaast
02:11 🔗 SketchCow You think I got these JSTOR DOCS by being slow? I got this 'cause I'm faaaaaaaaaaaaaast
02:27 🔗 SketchCow Ah, fuck, I just checked.
02:28 🔗 SketchCow These are watermarked to shit, and ALSO are shitty shitty scans.
02:28 🔗 SketchCow SHHHHHIITTTTTTYYYYYYYYY
02:28 🔗 dashcloud so worse than nothing?
02:28 🔗 SketchCow Yes
02:28 🔗 SketchCow That bad
02:28 🔗 SketchCow I will make better ones when I get the rig
02:29 🔗 SketchCow Did you guys see the talk and the rig?
02:29 🔗 Coderjoe I didn't see watermarks, at least in the few I looked at
02:29 🔗 Coderjoe talk and rig?
02:29 🔗 SketchCow Look at the bottom
02:29 🔗 dashcloud I saw the picture
02:29 🔗 Coderjoe oh
02:29 🔗 dashcloud can I buy one mostly assembled, or is it only available in pieces?
02:29 🔗 Coderjoe there it is
02:29 🔗 SketchCow http://t.co/8XmdmJmz
02:30 🔗 SketchCow http://t.co/yLJhLjGn
02:30 🔗 SketchCow First is the video, second is a phot.
02:30 🔗 SketchCow photo.
02:32 🔗 dashcloud I could finally scan my copy of Ebay Magazine, Dec 1999 then
02:32 🔗 Coderjoe man... I'd like a rig :-\
02:32 🔗 SketchCow As part of the documentary shooting, I'll take the rig with me and scan things. :)
02:34 🔗 dashcloud is $300 too little for one of those rigs?
02:34 🔗 SketchCow Too little?
02:36 🔗 dashcloud how much would one of those cost?
02:36 🔗 SketchCow Sub $500 is the plan but it's $133 in materials currently.
02:37 🔗 SketchCow So it may hover there.
02:37 🔗 SketchCow He wants it low cost as possible.
02:37 🔗 Coderjoe I saw an older DIYBookScanner talk... I think it was at goolge
02:37 🔗 SketchCow Yes, same fellow.
02:41 🔗 Coderjoe I also need to finish my 16mm film scanner
02:45 🔗 dashcloud one of my neighbors really doesn't like spending money, so he came up with a hackish way to handle slides without a projector- shine a bright light onto them with a white wall, and then photograph the result
02:47 🔗 db48x heh
03:03 🔗 DFJustin oh shit no book is safe
03:10 🔗 chronomex Coderjoe: neat, im wanting to make one of those. how are you doing it?
03:11 🔗 chronomex dashcloud: too cheap for a $10 slideproj? ive had goodish results digitising microfiche with a backlit surface and a decent slr with macro lens
03:13 🔗 Coderjoe chronomex: I'm modifying an elmo sl16 to (hopefully) widen the gate to show the optical sound, remove the shutter fan, and use a backlight plus a DSLR with a macro lens
03:13 🔗 dashcloud don't know that- interesting to hear about your idea there
03:13 🔗 Coderjoe i haven't touched it in awhile, however
03:13 🔗 Coderjoe last thing I did was remove a bunch of the guts almost 2 years ago :-\
03:14 🔗 chronomex Coderjoe: nice. im planning to use the line ccd from a flatbed and some found optics
03:14 🔗 chronomex then do the rest digitally as possible
03:14 🔗 Coderjoe I was considering a line ccd system, but the optics would be tricky, imo
03:15 🔗 Coderjoe I wanted to use the whole CCD width for the film width
03:15 🔗 chronomex right
03:15 🔗 chronomex found optics => still looking
03:16 🔗 chronomex :P
03:16 🔗 chronomex doesnt seem 100% complicated, just tricky
03:16 🔗 Coderjoe (the SL16 was given to me by a guy I bought a bunch of old film from. the rubber rollers were moldy (have since been replaced) and the sound head was way out of alignment and missing a screw)
03:16 🔗 chronomex imo moving the film at a constant speed may be trickier than the optics
03:16 🔗 Coderjoe well, another problem is film transport
03:17 🔗 chronomex rollers, motors. toothed wheel from e.g. a 16mm proj.
03:17 🔗 chronomex geared-down stepper ought to do the trick
03:17 🔗 Coderjoe it's kinda cool to be in a channel with like-minded kooks :D
03:17 🔗 chronomex :)
03:17 🔗 Coderjoe if I went the line CCD route, I also wanted to go sprocketless
03:18 🔗 chronomex why?
03:18 🔗 Coderjoe less wear on fragile film
03:18 🔗 chronomex ah true
03:18 🔗 chronomex need friction feed then though
03:18 🔗 chronomex which mean things touching the film
03:19 🔗 Coderjoe though a normal sprocket is not as bad as the gate pulldown fork
03:19 🔗 chronomex jfc no
03:20 🔗 chronomex serpentine feed through several driven metal rollers might be better
03:20 🔗 Coderjoe the scanner the IA has is a capistan drive scanner
03:20 🔗 chronomex I wonder if bendng is worse than rubber contact
03:20 🔗 chronomex hmm?
03:21 🔗 chronomex interfacing a line ccd looks to be kind of a pita; you need to read analog pixels at ~1MHz
03:22 🔗 chronomex unless it comes with a driver chip ofc
03:23 🔗 Coderjoe http://blog.archive.org/2011/06/24/our-newest-addition-film-scanning/
03:24 🔗 Coderjoe I kinda would like to get my hands on the frame and transport and replace some stuff, like the camera.
03:25 🔗 Coderjoe video about it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXhF2J9ze2w
03:30 🔗 chronomex oh it's a frame-by-frame unit
03:30 🔗 chronomex interesting
03:30 🔗 Coderjoe most are
03:32 🔗 chronomex huh, ok
03:32 🔗 chronomex those are quite clear pictures from such old filmstock, it seems
03:32 🔗 chronomex so they use rubber serpentine rollers
03:33 🔗 Coderjoe that is, most motion picture film scanners are. still picture scanners are not
03:33 🔗 chronomex right
03:33 🔗 chronomex and it looks to photograph several frames at once
03:33 🔗 chronomex I suppose that lets it be digitally knit together into a continuous image
03:33 🔗 Coderjoe http://www.alliedvisiontec.com/emea/products/applications/application-case-study/article/avt-pike-keeps-old-film-memories-alive.html
03:34 🔗 Coderjoe actually, I think it only does one frame at a time, and you've got aliaing between the strobe and the camera shooting the video
03:34 🔗 SketchCow http://www.cinevate.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=53_54
03:34 🔗 * SketchCow drool
03:35 🔗 chronomex looks to be 3 + 1/3 + 1/3 video frames in the lit field
03:36 🔗 chronomex at least in the first demo, youtube is so slow sending me video that I can't watch this one realtime
03:36 🔗 Coderjoe right, but the camera only focuses on one frame. the strobe and snap is controlled by a laser aimed at teh sprocket holes
03:36 🔗 chronomex ah, huh
03:37 🔗 SketchCow Hey, I'm on the radio, folks
03:37 🔗 SketchCow http://www.unregularradio.com/index.php/geekbeat
03:37 🔗 chronomex oh yeah?
03:37 🔗 chronomex mplayer -playlist http://68.232.180.132:8000/listen.pls
03:47 🔗 Coderjoe oh, and the website of the manufacturer: http://www.filmfabriek.nl/home.html
03:48 🔗 chronomex wooo paycheck
03:48 🔗 * chronomex throws $100 down on Tape
03:48 🔗 chronomex yeah.
04:50 🔗 chronomex speaking of magtape. probably the most longlived way to preserve data would be punched plastic tape.
04:55 🔗 chronomex but the density is horrible
05:25 🔗 chronomex SketchCow: damn. this framescanner output is sexy. are there plans to re-scan the Prelinger Archives with it?
05:25 🔗 chronomex i.e. correctly; the bits of Prelinger I've watched are at 30fps
06:41 🔗 SketchCow Done!
07:02 🔗 SketchCow http://vimeo.com/29279198
07:03 🔗 chronomex hmm, turning an audio recording of a data tape into data is going to be tricky
07:04 🔗 db48x SketchCow: neat
07:05 🔗 db48x some funky artefacts though
07:17 🔗 SketchCow There we go... 79 issues of Analog Computing Magazine!
07:20 🔗 SketchCow It is BLASTING them into the system.
07:33 🔗 SketchCow Almost done
07:36 🔗 SketchCow Done. 8 gigabytes of Analog Computing Magazine thrown in.
07:58 🔗 SketchCow Hey, so the Friendster Snapshots are finally going up.
07:58 🔗 SketchCow Not surprisingly, it's choking the whole chain to do it.
07:59 🔗 Cameron_D Speaking of Friendster
07:59 🔗 Cameron_D I still have all of my data sitting here
07:59 🔗 SketchCow I'll take it sooner rather than later.
07:59 🔗 SketchCow rsync.net has finally requested all THAT data get off their systems
07:59 🔗 SketchCow I'm blowing stuff into archive.org full time right now.
07:59 🔗 SketchCow But keep on me, I can give you a home
08:00 🔗 Cameron_D Alright
08:00 🔗 SketchCow Maybe in a day or two even
08:39 🔗 kin37ik hullo
14:41 🔗 DFJustin is there a way to tell archive.org that a pdf has two pages per image and it should split them for the online reader
14:42 🔗 alard Hey: who wants to help download a bit of Delicious? I'm downloading with SketchCow's list of usernames, but there are too many names to get them all.
14:43 🔗 alard If you want to help, here's the script to run: https://gist.github.com/0c757431f249ba4c3a5c
14:44 🔗 alard (Don't know anything about archive.org and pdfs, sorry.)
15:04 🔗 Coderjoe I wonder if we managed to get any official TMBG friendster profiles
16:47 🔗 n00b164 hi
16:57 🔗 db48x2 hello n00b164
17:00 🔗 n00b164 whos is there ?
17:41 🔗 Coderjoe http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/09/20/1639232/Ask-Slashdot-Recovering-Data-From-20-Year-Old-Diskettes
18:52 🔗 db48x2 nobody but us galliforms
18:53 🔗 db48x2 Coderjoe: that looks familiar
18:55 🔗 db48x2 heh, some interesting suggestions
18:55 🔗 db48x2 electron microscope + tequila
19:05 🔗 Ymgve how much does an analog oscilloscope with recording capabilities cost?
19:39 🔗 SketchCow I've got scripts brutally injecting Friendster Data into Archive.org.
19:39 🔗 SketchCow http://www.archive.org/details/archive-team-friendster
19:39 🔗 SketchCow Lots of cleanup we'll need to do.
20:08 🔗 chronomex Ymgve: depends on bandwidth.
20:08 🔗 chronomex Ymgve: if it's less than <200khz, you can buy a digital audio recorder that might be sufficient
20:08 🔗 chronomex Ymgve: but depends on what you're up to
20:09 🔗 Coderjoe I thought for recording/snapshot capability, you pretty much needed a digital scope
20:09 🔗 Ymgve I was thinking for floppies, not sure what bandwidth's required
20:09 🔗 Ymgve Coderjoe: digital scope with analog readings then
20:10 🔗 Ymgve one thing that annoyed me about the Cray data posted some weeks ago was that the data was flattened to a digital signal
20:11 🔗 SketchCow I did an evil thing there, I must confess.
20:11 🔗 SketchCow When I put up a picture of the disk pack, I put up a slightly different model.
20:11 🔗 SketchCow Oh, did the nerds come out from the weeds
20:11 🔗 SketchCow Now they're involved in the project.
20:11 🔗 Ymgve it worked well enough for that data, but if you want to try error correction, the original analog data would be a godsend
20:12 🔗 SketchCow Was it flattened? He didn't include the other rough data? Are you sure?
20:12 🔗 db48x2 SketchCow: sneaky
20:12 🔗 Coderjoe floppies and hard drives are recorded as reversals of magnetic flux
20:13 🔗 Ymgve SketchCow: it was, but it was still miraculously recoverable
20:14 🔗 Coderjoe which then cause a pulse as they pass the head, so I guess there would kinda be an analog level
20:14 🔗 chronomex yeah
20:14 🔗 db48x2 yes
20:14 🔗 Ymgve even though the difference between a pause of length 1n and a pause of length 2n was very close in some cases
20:14 🔗 db48x2 hard drives do funky things to the analog signal to tease out the sequence of bits that was most likely to have caused it
20:15 🔗 closure Ymgve: so that cray data has already been decoded?
20:16 🔗 Ymgve closure: yeah, http://chrisfenton.com/cray-1-digital-archeology/
20:17 🔗 Ymgve if you look at http://www.archive.org/stream/2011-cdc-disk-archaeology-fenton/summer_2011_final_small#page/n7/mode/1up - you see the signal at the top which I'd prefer to have, and the signal at the bottom which is what actually was in the files
20:17 🔗 Ymgve of course, then the images would probably be like 100gb instead
20:19 🔗 closure cool, nice work
20:26 🔗 Coderjoe I wonder about the feasability of using FLAC to encode arbitrary signal waveforms, well beyond audible sound
20:27 🔗 Ymgve depends on how FLAC works
20:28 🔗 Coderjoe Sample rate in Hz. Though 20 bits are available, the maximum sample rate is limited by the structure of frame headers to 655350Hz. Also, a value of 0 is invalid.
20:28 🔗 Coderjoe boo
20:28 🔗 Ymgve it's not like FLAC isn't forkable
20:28 🔗 Coderjoe it won't work terribly well without mods
20:28 🔗 db48x2 just gzip your pcm data
20:28 🔗 Ymgve make gFLAC, the generic flac!
20:29 🔗 Ymgve but for disk data, you'd want something that's good on signals with lot of self-similarity
20:29 🔗 Ymgve (which is different from repeated sequences, which is what zip etch works with)
20:30 🔗 db48x2 yea
20:30 🔗 db48x2 but gzip has the advantage of being easy
20:41 🔗 underscor chronomex: The framescanner is quite sexy
20:41 🔗 underscor The files it generates are so deliciously huge too
20:41 🔗 underscor The average roll of 8mm film is over 3TB
20:43 🔗 underscor (I worked with Rick on it a little while there)
20:48 🔗 chronomex underscor: o_O
20:48 🔗 chronomex that's kind of big!
20:53 🔗 DFJustin Ymgve: isn't that what kryoflux is for
20:54 🔗 Ymgve DFJustin: possibly, haven't looked at it closely
20:54 🔗 Ymgve I was just wondering about generic scopes
21:01 🔗 DFJustin http://www.softpres.org/kryoflux:ui:stream-plot
21:05 🔗 db48x2 looks like a fun piece of software
21:12 🔗 Coderjoe i've not used the kf gui much. it didn't seem to allow the flexibility of the command line... such as sampling multiple revolutions and things
21:12 🔗 Coderjoe one thing the gui can do that the cmdline can't seem to do is save JUST the stream files
21:13 🔗 DFJustin yeah I only use it for looking at the stuff after dumping via cli
21:31 🔗 Coderjoe bunch of idiots suggesting spinwrong
21:42 🔗 Ymgve spinrite sounds good in theory, but...
21:42 🔗 Coderjoe but it is a destructive "recovery" tool
21:42 🔗 Ymgve a new drive costs $50, just image it instead of overwriting stuff
21:43 🔗 Coderjoe Ymgve: talking about floppies
21:43 🔗 Ymgve yeah, even worse
21:43 🔗 Ymgve you can't spare 1.44mb? :)
21:43 🔗 Coderjoe it isn't about sparing the space. it is about getting old data off failing disks
21:44 🔗 Ymgve yeah, but the ONLY reason you would use that feature of spinrite is if you want to use the media afterwards
21:45 🔗 SketchCow I have a great idea
21:45 🔗 SketchCow You should talk to the softpres people
21:46 🔗 SketchCow Because everyone will wave their e-peens to the heavens
21:46 🔗 SketchCow They're good at that, you're good at it
21:46 🔗 SketchCow Humanity will benefit
21:46 🔗 SketchCow Maybe
23:11 🔗 dashcloud do you have a guide somewhere to digitizing VHS tapes? or is there a guide you recommend over others?
23:20 🔗 closure http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2011/09/the-ruins-of-dead-social-networks/245397/#.TnjqN5cgT00.hackernews
23:22 🔗 chronomex social shoals

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