#jsmess 2019-02-21,Thu

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00:46 🔗 SketchCow https://internetarchive.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Software_Library
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02:22 🔗 Vito` and then the wayback will ingest the wiki, and eventually the wiki will go offline, and people will pass around wayback links to saved wiki pages like samizdat
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03:03 🔗 DFJustin WHAT FORSOOTH, PRITHEE TELL ME THE SECRET WORD
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07:21 🔗 DFJustin thx
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16:05 🔗 SketchCow bai: Yes indeed, once again screenshotting is a nightmare shitshow
16:06 🔗 SketchCow One of my things broke, and the whole house of cards came crashing down, so I tried Chrome (fail) Brave (fail) Newest Firefox (fail) and now back to regular firefox and so on and so on
16:06 🔗 SketchCow and so on and so on and so on I can't wait for the earth to burn
16:07 🔗 bai ah, is the screenshotter built on seleniun?
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16:11 🔗 SketchCow ha ha FUCK NO
16:11 🔗 SketchCow NOOOOOOO
16:11 🔗 SketchCow ooo
16:11 🔗 SketchCow oo
16:11 🔗 SketchCow Dude, I will turn a beloved household pet inside out before I learn a new scripting language
16:12 🔗 SketchCow Oh man, do i need another reason to hate people in a specific place
16:12 🔗 bai sockington noooo :(
16:12 🔗 SketchCow I take simple screenshots of firefox
16:12 🔗 SketchCow But
16:12 🔗 SketchCow BUT
16:12 🔗 SketchCow See
16:12 🔗 SketchCow Firefox is smrt
16:12 🔗 SketchCow super smrtr
16:12 🔗 SketchCow Don't wanna run as root
16:12 🔗 SketchCow That's bad
16:12 🔗 SketchCow So they just clicked in a bunch of random "hey, you're running as root" checks
16:13 🔗 SketchCow And it broke all my shit
16:13 🔗 SketchCow So now it's just a game of how is jason going to shim-jam open his ubuntu instance here so it fucking runs anyway
16:13 🔗 SketchCow But make it something that blows up half my day
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16:15 🔗 SketchCow Oh it gets better
16:15 🔗 SketchCow The thousand error messages/warning
16:15 🔗 SketchCow I look them up
16:15 🔗 SketchCow Bug report
16:15 🔗 SketchCow By dozens of people
16:15 🔗 SketchCow discussing it
16:15 🔗 SketchCow for years
16:15 🔗 SketchCow because mozilla
16:15 🔗 SketchCow YEARS
16:16 🔗 SketchCow Like, do your one ridiculous job
16:16 🔗 SketchCow Your one simple job
16:16 🔗 SketchCow make a browser
16:17 🔗 bai yeah my experience with bug reporting against firefox is, if you report a bug in a complex system a mozilla employee will say "sounds pretty bad" then sit on it for 2 years until you boil it down to the simplest possible test case, then they'll fix it in 30 minutes
16:18 🔗 bai my experience with chrome is "just don't even"
16:18 🔗 SketchCow And here we are. It's a half day later and I am so much directly exactly where I stood 3 hours ago you could overlay them by transparency and it'd be that exact.
16:18 🔗 SketchCow I again can get firefox to run as root, go to a display in an X server, and take screenshots, all of which fail.
16:19 🔗 SketchCow So that's ... good, I guess. For a while I had it completely broke-ass
16:19 🔗 SketchCow Made a new script now called FUCKFIREFOX
16:19 🔗 SketchCow Which will do a test for me to help me find the problem
16:20 🔗 SketchCow I mean, the main issue is I'm running a slightly out of date ubuntu
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16:21 🔗 SketchCow 14.04
16:21 🔗 SketchCow You know
16:21 🔗 SketchCow the old times
16:21 🔗 SketchCow 3 years ago
16:22 🔗 SketchCow This bumps into "Internet Archive can't just give me a new instance"
16:22 🔗 SketchCow Amazon can.
16:22 🔗 SketchCow But then I'm spending money, real money
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16:55 🔗 DFJustin wow they fix things for you if you make testcases? I still get the 10-year sit
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18:09 🔗 TSCHAK . o O (the more projects I stick my head into, the more I realize that it's just bad all over...)
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18:14 🔗 bai yeah, it's a constant battle between "we have a system which mostly works using the old ways of doing things, do we keep propping up the old wonky stuff or do we bite the bullet and retool for all the shiny new hotness which probably comes with its own set of crappiness?" :D
18:15 🔗 bai DFJustin: guess I just caught a dev on a good day :D
18:16 🔗 bai I reported a problem with es6 modules failing to load my pure-JS doom port, they triaged it as a webgl thing and sat on it until I boiled it down to a three-file example showing how it affected a certain usage pattern for using imports and exports together
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19:33 🔗 ted terrible
19:33 🔗 ted (all software)
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20:15 🔗 SketchCow I'm back, by the way.
20:15 🔗 SketchCow It helps to understand I go to bed 2-3am as usual, but then Rachel makes me wake at 7:30am to take her to the bus and that wrecks my day to begin with, so I try to get a little bit going before the inevitable crash
20:15 🔗 SketchCow Only this time it was screenshot horseshit.
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20:42 🔗 SketchCow Where I am now.
20:42 🔗 SketchCow Can run Firefox as root again.
20:42 🔗 SketchCow Can screenshot.
20:42 🔗 SketchCow However, for some reason, it does the load and then goes to a blank screen.
20:43 🔗 SketchCow First going to see if we didn't introduce something crazy with new MAME stuff.
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20:46 🔗 SketchCow OK, so
20:46 🔗 SketchCow DOSBOX works.
20:46 🔗 SketchCow Works fine in fact.
20:51 🔗 SketchCow OK, so
20:51 🔗 SketchCow It just blew up because of WebGL
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20:53 🔗 bai oh?
20:53 🔗 bai did they switch the default output to webgl or something?
20:54 🔗 SketchCow Oh buckle up, give me a moment, I'm screenshotting for you
20:55 🔗 bai I know the way emularity works, it wants to write things like loader progress, etc. onto the same canvas using 2d canvas api, which is fine if you're using 2d canvas api for mame/dosbox output because it just takes control of the canvas context - but if the app is configured for opengl output, that causes problems because you can't just turn a canvas with a 2d context into one with a 3d context without
20:55 🔗 bai recreating it
20:56 🔗 SketchCow Exception thrown - GLctx is undefined
21:01 🔗 SketchCow Yeah, so it blows up. I installed gtx, still blows up.
21:01 🔗 SketchCow going to try another version of firefox.
21:03 🔗 SketchCow OK, so all my versions of firefox explode now.
21:03 🔗 SketchCow Something changed int he compilation.
21:03 🔗 SketchCow db48x: hey hey
21:06 🔗 SketchCow I just paste it to db in the slack.
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22:14 🔗 DFJustin there's a firefox config to turn all the webgl stuff off
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22:31 🔗 ted we use something for testing, i think llvmpipe? https://www.mesa3d.org/llvmpipe.html
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22:33 🔗 SketchCow Back
22:34 🔗 SketchCow Ok, we got the problem nailed down a bit more
22:34 🔗 ted unrelated but i gave my notice today, i'm leaving mozilla soon
22:34 🔗 SketchCow !
22:34 🔗 SketchCow What's your thing there
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23:19 🔗 db48x ted: !!
23:23 🔗 db48x so I tested the WebGL problem, and it's currently only affecting the apple2e emulator that I uploaded the other day
23:23 🔗 db48x that one is based on MAME 0.206, and the rest are still from MAME 0.205
23:24 🔗 db48x but I also upgraded Emscripten at the same time, so that might have caused it
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23:25 🔗 db48x as I understand it, MAME just uses SDL, and Emscripten's SDL port tries to use WebGL and falls back to the 2D apis if that fails
23:25 🔗 db48x but maybe they took out the fallback
23:26 🔗 SketchCow Should I hit the alon button
23:26 🔗 DFJustin mame has a couple different output methods and I'm not totally sure which is the default
23:27 🔗 db48x SketchCow: it might be worth asking him if this is a known problem, or a deliberate feature :)
23:28 🔗 db48x DFJustin: it says that it's "using SDL multi-window soft driver" in the console
23:28 🔗 db48x ok, I must eat lunch. bbiab
23:29 🔗 DFJustin ok that's -video soft
23:29 🔗 DFJustin you can also try -video opengl or -video bgfx
23:29 🔗 bai hmm, I don't think that fallback happens on the emscripten side, my understanding is that you can configure mame with different output drivers, I think in the past to get opengl output I'd use the bgfx output option
23:29 🔗 DFJustin but that's not the goal I guess
23:30 🔗 bai maybe the default changed
23:30 🔗 DFJustin my bet would be something changed with emscripten's sdl port
23:30 🔗 bai also possible
23:31 🔗 SketchCow https://twitter.com/kripken/status/1093995738571300864 by the way
23:32 🔗 SketchCow Also, someone has a solution: "All pixels are now absolute-positioned divs."
23:32 🔗 SketchCow Get on that
23:33 🔗 SketchCow Also, I pinged alon, to see if he'll show up
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23:36 🔗 kripken hi SketchCow
23:37 🔗 SketchCow Hey, man.
23:37 🔗 SketchCow 18:23 < db48x> so I tested the WebGL problem, and it's currently only affecting the apple2e emulator that I uploaded the other day
23:37 🔗 SketchCow 18:25 < db48x> as I understand it, MAME just uses SDL, and Emscripten's SDL port tries to use WebGL and falls back to the 2D apis if that fails
23:37 🔗 SketchCow 18:25 < db48x> but maybe they took out the fallback
23:37 🔗 SketchCow 18:27 < db48x> SketchCow: it might be worth asking him if this is a known problem, or a deliberate feature :)
23:37 🔗 kripken hmm, is that SDL1 or SDL2?
23:38 🔗 kripken I don't think we changed anything in SDL1 recently (no new development there), and I think SDL2 only supports GL anyhow
23:38 🔗 SketchCow Also: That new Chrome WASM cache is f'in ridiculous, is firefox getting that
23:38 🔗 DFJustin sdl2
23:38 🔗 kripken Would be best though to ask in an issue in https://github.com/emscripten-ports/SDL2/issues , Daft-Freak is the main developer on that code
23:39 🔗 kripken I don't remember any fallback path being taken out, but there have been a bunch of changes - could be a bug
23:39 🔗 kripken SketchCow: I know firefox wants to implement it too, now sure of status though
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23:51 🔗 SketchCow It's literally a game changer
23:51 🔗 SketchCow We weren't going to overcome the cache limit and then they go ahead and implement a specialized cache limit
23:51 🔗 kripken specialized cache limit?
23:52 🔗 SketchCow Yeah, the WASM compile cache doesn't care about the made-up file limits all the browsers use for files in general.
23:52 🔗 SketchCow I'm flinging 5mb+ WASMs at it and they just go in.
23:52 🔗 SketchCow Not AS useful for special one-off WASMs like an arcade game
23:52 🔗 SketchCow But for the computers and consoles, bip bip
23:53 🔗 kripken oh good, nice
23:53 🔗 SketchCow So once you load AN apple 2 WASM in Chrome, every time you use it again, the loading of the wasm/compile is instant
23:53 🔗 SketchCow And since the datafiles are 140k, those are barely noticable
23:54 🔗 kripken great, glad to hear this works so well!
23:55 🔗 SketchCow https://twitter.com/kripken/status/1098727361598480387
23:55 🔗 SketchCow Assume you meant this as a DM
23:55 🔗 SketchCow But I like it without context
23:55 🔗 SketchCow As did a random other
23:55 🔗 kripken heh i must have hit the wrong button on my phone
23:56 🔗 kripken deleted
23:56 🔗 SketchCow o no
23:58 🔗 SketchCow So, to summarize
23:58 🔗 SketchCow - Happened with new emscripten
23:58 🔗 SketchCow - No other factors seem to be in case
23:58 🔗 SketchCow - Basically, fallback doesn't happen
23:59 🔗 SketchCow - We like that it's doing new things but it should pour a 40 for fallback
23:59 🔗 SketchCow - db48x should do an issue
23:59 🔗 SketchCow Is this all correct?

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