[00:36] <Coderjoe> yay! a kickstarter package arrived todat
[00:36] <Coderjoe> today
[00:50] <joepie91> http://cryto.net/~joepie91/gamestuff
[00:50] <joepie91> because awesome!
[00:59] <Aranje> still suck at those games, damn
[01:19] <joepie91> lol
[02:39] <kennethre> woah, boto already has connect_ia built in?
[02:39] <kennethre> classy.
[02:40] <db48x> heh
[02:41] <kennethre> got to meet mitch last month, great guy
[02:42] <db48x> what're you working on?
[02:43] <kennethre> http://blackbox.kennethreitz.org/
[02:43] <kennethre> https://github.com/kennethreitz/blackbox
[02:45] <kennethre> think post-mortem persistence
[02:45] <db48x> interesting
[02:46] <kennethre> once it's refined and stable
[02:46] <kennethre> i might make it into a hosted service
[02:46] <db48x> I remember a story
[02:52] <kennethre> trying to figure out a good strategy for archive.org replication for this
[02:55] <kennethre> i think i got it
[03:01] <kennethre> sweet
[03:15] * joepie91 chokes
[03:15] <joepie91> holy crap
[03:15] <joepie91> kennethre: I never realized you were the author of requests
[03:15] <kennethre> joepie91: hahaha
[03:15] <kennethre> in the flesh :)
[03:16] <joepie91> heh
[03:16] <joepie91> it's quite nice :)
[03:16] <hiker1> What requests?
[03:16] <joepie91> hiker1: python-requests
[03:16] <joepie91> basically a python library to make HTTP requests sane
[03:16] <hiker1> I've heard of it
[03:16] <joepie91> because the urllib/urllib2 API is basically one giant mess that you don't want to touch with a 10 feet pole
[03:16] <hiker1> Are you sure he's the author?
[03:16] <kennethre> http://docs.python-requests.org/en/latest/
[03:16] <joepie91> well, his site says so :P
[03:17] <kennethre> hiker1: kennethre == kennethreitz
[03:17] <joepie91> I think it was python-resolv that I used requests for
[03:17] <hiker1> heh. nice to meet you as well then :)
[03:18] <kennethre> SketchCow can attest that i'm a real person :P
[03:18] * joepie91 greps
[03:18] <hiker1> kennethre: How did you find out Amazon Google and Mozilla are using it?
[03:18] <kennethre> people that work there
[03:18] <hiker1> ah
[03:19] <joepie91> I'm *sure* I used requests.. but where
[03:19] * joepie91 is a disaster with file management
[03:19] <hiker1> I know a lot of big requests fans. I always use Twisted though :X
[03:20] <hiker1> which many think is an insane library.
[03:20] <kennethre> :D
[03:20] <kennethre> twisted is a beautiful way of looking at the world, but a twisted one
[03:20] <kennethre> the docs are what kills it for me
[03:20] <kennethre> i love the concept though, glyph is a really bright guy
[03:20] * joepie91 really dislikes twisted because of the docs issue
[03:20] <joepie91> that, plus it seems really bloated
[03:21] <joepie91> as in, syntax
[03:21] <kennethre> very verbose
[03:21] <kennethre> but i think it has to be for what it's trying to accomplish
[03:21] <joepie91> but mediocre docs is sort of a recurring theme in the python world
[03:21] <joepie91> well yes, but it makes it near unusable for someone that wants to write something fairly basic
[03:21] <hiker1> I don't know of a better non-blocking http library.
[03:21] <joepie91> I mean, requests can do pretty advanced stuff too, but by default it's really simple to use
[03:21] <joepie91> there's no "easy mode" for Twisted
[03:22] <hiker1> joepie91: If you use it enough, it becomes easy mode.
[03:22] <kennethre> so tornado has a cool thing i've been meaning to play with
[03:22] <hiker1> I use it constantly. Even for relatively simple stuff.
[03:22] <kennethre> twisted.gen
[03:22] <kennethre> er
[03:22] <kennethre> tornado.gen
[03:22] <joepie91> hiker1: it becomes easy, but it's still not an easy mode :P
[03:22] <kennethre> http://www.tornadoweb.org/documentation/gen.html
[03:22] <kennethre> i love the concept
[03:22] <hiker1> hah, I suppose so.
[03:22] <hiker1> joepie91: The few tutorials for Twisted are pretty well written though
[03:23] <hiker1> but the docs overall are not the best.
[03:23] <joepie91> kennethre: that is interesting
[03:23] <joepie91> hiker1; well yes, but the docs situation with twisted and tutorials etc, leads to two possible scenarios:
[03:23] <kennethre> really has nothing to do with the rest of it
[03:23] <kennethre> (i'm not a fan or tornado)
[03:23] <kennethre> this little gem looks nice though
[03:23] <joepie91> 1. you have a common usecase, in which case you'll be copypasting a pile of code without knowing what half of it does
[03:23] <hiker1> As I was playing with alard's warc-proxy, I noticed tornado auto reloads your server for you. That is a very nice feature.
[03:23] <joepie91> 2. you have a non-common usecase, and without being a twisted wizard it's impossible to figure out how to do it
[03:23] <kennethre> I'm a big flask guy
[03:24] * joepie91 occasionally uses flask as well
[03:24] <joepie91> I have something based on flask running at http://whois.cryto.net/ :P
[03:24] <kennethre> haha, fantastic
[03:24] <hiker1> joepie91: I managed to write some fairly complex Twisted code without too much contact with the wizard guild. But I read through quite a bit of source to get it done.
[03:24] <joepie91> using a whois parsing module I wrote
[03:24] <kennethre> joepie91: that doesn't sound like fun
[03:25] <joepie91> kennethre: mmm, it's a challenge
[03:25] <joepie91> but there are definitely headaches
[03:25] <joepie91> because whois data is insanely irregular
[03:25] <joepie91> hiker1: right, reading through source is a disaster for me... it messes up my mental model of my own project source
[03:25] <joepie91> kennethre: I had far more fun writing resolv, actually
[03:26] <hiker1> kennethre: Do you go to any python conferences?
[03:26] <joepie91> http://git.cryto.net/cgit/resolv/tree/resolv?h=develop :P
[03:26] <kennethre> hiker1: a TON
[03:26] <joepie91> (but it desperately needs an update)
[03:26] <hiker1> sounds like fun
[03:26] <joepie91> (basically a resolving library for URLs from video sites, filehosters, etc)
[03:26] <hiker1> I end up watching a bunch of the panels online
[03:26] <kennethre> joepie91: http://kennethreitz.org/on-heroku-and-2012.html#traveling-the-world
[03:27] <joepie91> kennethre: hey, I see a dutch airport trolley!
[03:27] <kennethre> Amsterdam airport
[03:27] <kennethre> a magical place :)
[03:27] <kennethre> the airport that is, never got to leave
[03:28] <joepie91> :P
[03:28] <joepie91> on that note, amsterdam isn't *that* amazing imo
[03:28] <joepie91> it's not very different from the rest of NL
[03:28] <kennethre> the airport really is amazing
[03:28] <joepie91> aside from more tourist tat
[03:29] <joepie91> well yes, but that's schiphol
[03:30] <kennethre> hiker1: sorry that link above was for you
[03:30] <kennethre> hiker1: http://kennethreitz.org/on-heroku-and-2012.html#traveling-the-world
[03:31] <hiker1> yes. Heroku evangelist, or Python in general?
[03:31] <kennethre> python
[03:32] <twitchy64> kennethre: you know inbox.py?
[03:33] <kennethre> twitchy64: i wrote it
[03:33] <twitchy64> I know
[03:33] <twitchy64> thats why Im here
[03:33] <kennethre> haven't touched it in a while
[03:33] <kennethre> yeah?
[03:33] <twitchy64> Why on earth did you use decorators? it took me like 3 minutes to work out the interface
[03:33] <twitchy64> and gevent
[03:33] <twitchy64> why introduce dependicies for such a simple script?
[03:33] <joepie91> whoa, twitchy64, relax
[03:34] <kennethre> lol i didn't realize until later that gevent wasn't neccesary with asyncore
[03:34] <joepie91> lol
[03:34] <twitchy64> joepie91: lol I am relaxed
[03:34] <twitchy64> you should see me when im ragin
[03:34] <kennethre> the decorator interface is intended to be extended eventually
[03:34] <kennethre> imagine
[03:34] <kennethre> @inbox.collate(to='test@server.com')
[03:35] <kennethre> idk it's a weird interface
[03:35] <kennethre> people like it though
[03:35] <twitchy64> ok
[03:35] <twitchy64> I apologize for coming across as confrontational or agressive if I did
[03:35] <kennethre> it's cool :)
[03:35] * joepie91 is really confused... not only did the bug leading to no background music in my game engine not occur for someone, it played music that was *commented out*
[03:36] <twitchy64> joepie91: cache relic?
[03:36] <joepie91> twitchy64: this user has never loaded the game while it was not-commented-out
[03:36] <joepie91> so, can't be cache
[03:36] <joepie91> so either SM2 has grown its own brain and decided to play music instead of just preloading
[03:36] <joepie91> or something is going horribly wrong here
[03:37] <joepie91> .. on second thought, the growing its own brain thing would be horribly wrong as well.
[03:38] <twitchy64> kennethre: Just to give some context to my madness, I spent the morning trying to install an MTA with no success. Then I found inbox.py, and raged when I saw that its interface was incompatible with my brain. Finally, Ive settled on a similar script, which Ive modified to prevent open relays, and now all I have to do is spam filtering and sending mail!
[03:39] <joepie91> well... time to implement levels in my game!
[03:39] <kennethre> twitchy64: mail is crazy, i tried to make it simple :)
[03:39] <twitchy64> joepie91: :D still yet to try it on a non-crap browser
[03:39] <kennethre> twitchy64: lambson or something is so much worse
[03:40] <twitchy64> kennethre: Oh yes, I would have tortured the developers if they lived in my country :P
[03:41] <kennethre> so i think all my content will exist in a single item
[03:42] <kennethre> with the same title as my domain
[03:42] <kennethre> ourmedia seems appropriate
[03:44] <twitchy64> hmmm. So this is the chat channel for the archive project for geocities?
[03:48] <joepie91> no
[03:48] <joepie91> this is an offtopic channel for archiveteam
[03:48] <joepie91> :p
[03:48] <joepie91> which *was* running a geocities save quite a while ago
[03:49] <kennethre> and uploading....
[03:49] <hiker1> kennethre: http://blog.mekk.waw.pl/archives/14-Twisted-inlineCallbacks-and-deferredGenerator.html
[03:50] <kennethre> https://ia601600.us.archive.org/23/items/blackbox.kennethreitz.org/
[03:50] <kennethre> hiker1: interesting
[03:50] <kennethre> I'd really like to have a nice async recommendation for requests
[03:51] <kennethre> currently, i just recommend everyone use celery
[03:51] <twitchy64> ew twisted
[03:51] <twitchy64> ^ opionionated
[03:52] <hiker1> Why do so many people not like Twisted? It's a great library..
[03:52] <kennethre> it's unapproachable
[03:52] <kennethre> and people like to avoid writing isolated services
[03:52] <kennethre> which is what twisted is great for
[03:52] <kennethre> not monolithic things
[03:53] <hiker1> What do you mean by isolated services?
[03:53] <twitchy64> hiker1: its monolithic, bulky, and abstracts a great deal of information away for the coder
[03:53] <kennethre> distributed services
[03:53] <twitchy64> also, Im not sure that I can control my apps memory usage if I use twisted
[03:54] <twitchy64> If I use a small library or roll my own, Its much more convienent and easier to manage
[03:54] <hiker1> kennethre: I don't understand what you mean.
[03:56] <kennethre> BotoServerError: BotoServerError: 503 Slow Down :(
[03:57] <twitchy64> Hmmm
[03:57] <kennethre> i guess uploading 5000 items in 3 minutes is a lot]
[04:13] <kennethre> any IA admins in here?
[04:18] <joepie91> AH
[04:19] <joepie91> kennethre: I remember what I used requests for
[04:19] <joepie91> pytahoe :P
[04:19] <joepie91> http://pypi.python.org/pypi/pytahoe/1.0
[04:19] <kennethre> haha nice
[04:19] <kennethre> that looks awesome
[04:20] <joepie91> idk if you're familiar with tahoe-lafs?
[04:20] <kennethre> i am not
[04:20] <joepie91> look at it as encrypted network-based RAID
[04:20] <joepie91> it's a decentralized file store, that uses RAID-like striping for redundancy
[04:20] <joepie91> and encryption to protect your data
[04:20] <joepie91> (a storage node can be completely untrusted, it doesn't matter)
[04:21] <joepie91> it has a web API but it's a bit of a pain to work with it, so I'm in the process of writing a python library that abstracts it away
[04:21] <joepie91> some random testing code: http://git.cryto.net/cgit/pytahoe/tree/test.py
[04:22] <hiker1> kennethre: ever play with node.js?
[04:22] <kennethre> hiker1: not much
[04:22] <kennethre> i'm very familar with it
[04:22] <kennethre> joepie91: competes with DRDB?
[04:22] <hiker1> As in you follow developments?
[04:22] <kennethre> hiker1: i tolerate it :)
[04:23] <joepie91> kennethre: nah, tahoe-lafs lives more on a software level
[04:23] <kennethre> gotcha
[04:23] <kennethre> seems interesting
[04:23] <joepie91> the main usecase would be via the web API
[04:23] <joepie91> being able to mount something is just a nice addition
[04:23] <joepie91> and there are some design decisions that make it inherently compatible with a traditional filesystem
[04:23] <joepie91> so it wouldn't work as drdb does anyway :P
[05:27] <underscor> <hiker1> underscor: but you have scholarships/grants/loans
[05:27] <underscor> hiker1: Yeah, that knocks it down to about $40k after scholarships and grants
[05:27] <underscor> then another $16k in loans
[05:27] <underscor> and the rest is from working
[05:27] <underscor> sucks xD
[05:27] <hiker1> expensive
[05:28] <underscor> yeah =/
[05:28] <twitchy64> I have an IT scholarship :D
[05:28] <twitchy64> it covers everything
[06:38] <joepie91> http://cryto.net/destructomatch -> now with levels and targets :D
[06:45] <kennethre> joepie91: this is pretty fun :)
[06:46] <joepie91> :D
[06:46] <joepie91> been working on this for the past few days
[06:46] <hiker1> What is it written in?
[06:46] <joepie91> made the game and the engine it runs on simultaneously
[06:46] <joepie91> :p
[06:46] <joepie91> javascript + html + css
[06:46] <joepie91> uses canvas
[06:47] <twitchy64> hmmmmm it seems sending mail is easier than I though
[06:47] <twitchy64> *thought
[06:47] <twitchy64> the hardest part was resolving MX records
[06:48] <kennethre> twitchy64: i thought you were trying to receive emails?
[06:48] <twitchy64> kennethre: I was trying to both. I finished writing the code for recieving (and stopping it from open relaying), and now im writing the code for sending
[06:49] <twitchy64> My aim is a fully fledged MTA in less than 500 lines of code.
[06:49] <twitchy64> with no external dependicies
[06:49] <Aranje> that'll be cute for about 12 minutes
[06:49] <twitchy64> it would work for small websites
[06:49] <twitchy64> just nothing fancy
[06:50] <twitchy64> There are a ton of optimizations in my head Im sure I can do
[06:50] <twitchy64> like have a queue for each domain, and send all the messages for that domain all at once
[07:34] <godane> i'm starting to upload cnet buzz out loud
[07:47] <ersi> I like the smell of pythontalk in the morning
[07:55] <kennethre> i should really sleep
[07:55] <kennethre> loljk
[07:56] <norbert79> Morning
[07:59] <ersi> mornin'
[07:59] <twitchy64> good evening.
[08:00] <twitchy64> ^ #theres_always_one #yolo
[08:00] <ersi> wololo
[08:06] <db48x> something is wrong with my computer
[08:06] <hiker1> Did you try turning it off and on again?
[08:07] <db48x> not yet
[08:07] <ersi> Apply fire
[08:07] <db48x> emacs has been in an infinite loop for 7 hours
[08:10] <db48x> strace tells me nothing
[08:10] <ersi> This seems like an interesting talk: http://strataconf.com/strata2013/public/schedule/detail/27488
[08:11] <ersi> (Not that I'm going, but just general for seeing)
[08:12] <db48x> that would be a good one
[08:19] <hiker1> db48x: try killing it
[08:20] <db48x> yep
[08:20] <hiker1> that do it?
[08:20] <db48x> the real problem is that it goes into an infinite loop whenever I run it
[08:21] <hiker1> Well there's your problem right there
[08:21] <hiker1> switch to vim, problem solved.
[08:21] <hiker1> I like emacs too, but the day it stops working is the day I stop using it.
[08:22] <ersi> blargh, I hit an web.mac.com address :<
[08:22] <hiker1> isn't that site dead?
[08:22] <kennethre> quite.
[08:22] <hiker1> Why did Apple do that?
[08:22] <kennethre> ersi: good thing we backed it up :)
[08:22] <kennethre> hiker1: mobileme was terrible.
[08:23] <kennethre> hiker1: when I worked at NetApp, I got to read the architecture documents on how the whole thing worked.
[08:23] <kennethre> hiker1: you wouldn't believe it
[08:23] <ersi> woot, WaybackMachine had it + the pdf
[08:23] <kennethre> worst service ever
[08:23] <hiker1> then they should have rewrote it and transfered the stuff
[08:23] <ersi> http://web.archive.org/web/20091112190442/http://web.mac.com/ben_moseley/frp/frp.html
[08:23] <hiker1> good read
[08:24] <db48x> I don't think the problem is emacs, actually
[08:29] <twitchy64> kennethre: you awake?
[08:29] <kennethre> twitchy64: for the next five minutes :)
[08:29] <twitchy64> could you possibly do you me a quick favour?
[08:29] <twitchy64> just need to test email thingy
[08:29] <kennethre> maybe
[08:29] <twitchy64> can you please send an email to <anything>@research.cryto.net
[08:30] <twitchy64> and let me know if you get a response
[08:30] <kennethre> sent
[08:30] <twitchy64> thanks :)
[08:32] <ersi> why would you specifically need kennethre to send a mail there? :o
[08:32] <kennethre> PHISHING ATTACK
[08:32] <twitchy64> loool
[08:32] <kennethre> twitchy64: oh i did it wrong
[08:32] <twitchy64> The reason is I know kennethre works on mail daemons in the past
[08:33] <twitchy64> kennethre: thought I had a bug there :)
[08:33] <kennethre> really sent now
[08:33] <kennethre> had a typo in the domain
[08:33] <twitchy64> its coming through now
[08:33] <twitchy64> did you get something back?
[08:33] <kennethre> awesome
[08:33] <kennethre> yep
[08:33] <twitchy64> SWEEEEEEEEEEET
[08:33] <ersi> argh, why did tabbed browsing come along? *tries to clear out tabs*
[08:33] <kennethre> Message acknowledgement
[08:34] <twitchy64> thankyou heaps :)
[08:34] <kennethre> ersi: the RAM companies are behind it, i swear
[08:34] <ersi> There's too much interesting content in the weboweb as well :(
[08:34] <twitchy64> ersi: all we need now is AI to come through and sort it for us
[08:36] <ersi> think I'm gonna do a "read it later"/pocket/readability clone, which archives the content you put in it sometime
[08:39] <kennethre> ersi: my friend is working on one
[08:40] <kennethre> kippt.com, i'm convincing him to do full data export
[08:40] <kennethre> it'll be awesome
[08:40] <kennethre> also readability sucks :)
[08:46] <db48x> heh
[08:47] <ersi> yeah, I just meant the concept :)
[08:57] <twitchy64> Found the bottleneck in my MTA ... It can only send about 2 emails a minute LOLZ
[08:58] <ersi> :D
[09:18] <DFJustin> https://github.com/SavourySnaX/AOTMC89
[09:24] <ersi> I've never heard of Spinn3r before. Seems pretty interesting
[09:31] <Sue> S[h]O[r]T: are you there?
[09:32] <ersi> He will be, later if he isn't here now :)
[09:32] <ersi> He pops in occationally
[09:33] <Sue> thanks
[09:33] <Sue> i fart around here regularly, my autojoin borked
[09:33] <Sue> i don't know his schedule though
[09:33] <ersi> :)
[09:34] <Sue> and now to move all my irssi windows back to their regular positions
[09:35] <ersi> then remember to save the layout ;)
[09:35] <Sue> and set the autojoin back up
[09:35] <ersi> yarr
[09:36] <Sue> the effects of not closing tmux for 4 months
[09:58] <ersi> why the fuck does someone name a machine in all caps and with dashes
[09:58] <ersi> looks stupid
[09:58] <ersi> lol@BLAH01-LOC05
[09:59] <Sue> give it a uuid for a hostname
[10:00] <ersi> shrug
[10:05] <ersi> https://blekko.com/webgrep
[10:05] <ersi> cool stuff
[10:18] <joepie91> whee!
[10:18] <joepie91> http://cryto.net/destructomatch
[10:18] <joepie91> now with sexy animated game over screen :3
[10:18] <joepie91> and proper score keeping
[10:23] <Sue> i lost the first level
[10:24] <joepie91> Sue: how..
[10:24] <joepie91> wait
[10:24] <joepie91> that isn't even possible lol
[10:24] <Sue> yeah i figured that out
[10:25] <Sue> it's got a target
[10:25] <joepie91> (the great thing about this game is that you can give it to someone without any instructions whatsoever, and they will figure it out :D)
[10:27] <ersi> I don't get it
[10:27] <ersi> what do I do?
[10:27] <ersi> Just kidding :)
[10:28] <Sue> oh, this is probably the best channel to ask, python or ruby (to learn)
[10:28] <Sue> end goal is a basic status page pulling data from libvirt's api
[10:31] <Sue> i've done neither
[10:37] <joepie91> urgh, libvirt
[10:37] <joepie91> if you ever plan on using openvz, forget libvirt
[10:41] <Sue> nope
[10:41] <Sue> kvm all the way
[10:41] <Sue> anyway, what i plan on doing is writing a simple status page in some language for
[10:42] <Sue|hugeb> this guy
[10:45] <Sue|hugeb> ugh, Sue is having a case of the comcasts
[10:46] <Sue|hugeb> anyway, i'll eventually expand the status page into a control panel
[10:46] <Sue|hugeb> i plan on never ever touching solusvm again
[10:50] <ersi> screw openvz ;p
[10:50] <ersi> @joepie
[18:11] <Smiley> urgh
[18:11] <Smiley> back at docs today with my depression, and told my employeer :/
[18:11] <Smiley> as always, scores off the scale, yet I seem to have the mindset that I can still function, where many can't
[18:11] <Smiley> annoying this means people see it "not as bad" as someone elses
[18:15] <hiker1> oh
[18:18] <Smiley> yeah :(
[18:21] <balrog_> :[
[19:27] <ersi> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:0.999.../Arguments
[19:27] <ersi> Go go idiotspedia
[20:41] <db48x> ersi: :)
[23:01] <DFJustin> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A_y-um1CUAAhHgW.png:large
[23:18] <ersi> fuck yeah