| Time |
Nickname |
Message |
|
03:06
🔗
|
godane |
i'm starting to upload SGNL By Sony |
|
03:07
🔗
|
godane |
SketchCow: just know that 3 of those videos are in community videos now |
|
03:08
🔗
|
godane |
i can move them to my godaneinbox so there just going be in community videos for now |
|
04:48
🔗
|
* |
closure just learned that this archive is 100 tb. Wow! http://densho.org |
|
04:52
🔗
|
closure |
http://archive.densho.org/main.aspx more accurately |
|
05:05
🔗
|
yipdw |
hah |
|
05:05
🔗
|
yipdw |
https://soundcloud.com/bestdropsever/a-drop-so-crazy-youll-kill |
|
05:53
🔗
|
Lord_Nigh |
yipdw: ftp://212.160.170.220/pub/demo/QNX/ HAD the qnx demo disks |
|
05:53
🔗
|
Lord_Nigh |
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79094972/212.160.170.220.tar.gz |
|
06:24
🔗
|
yipdw |
Lord_Nigh: ah, cool |
|
06:24
🔗
|
yipdw |
got the backup, thanks |
|
06:24
🔗
|
Lord_Nigh |
np |
|
12:12
🔗
|
joepie91 |
hey uh, what's the deal with this? http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Parodius_Networking |
|
15:14
🔗
|
Jonimus |
well the $20 standard store place followed through, thanks for the suggestions. |
|
15:15
🔗
|
Jonimus |
http://jonimoose.net/crap/ISO%204343-2000.pdf if someone wants to get it somewhere more visible. |
|
15:32
🔗
|
Jonimus |
hmm page 33 of that PDF has --`,,,````,,````,,`````,````,`,,-`-`,,`,,`,`,,`--- written virtically near the bottom. |
|
15:41
🔗
|
godane |
i'm guessing that conservatives.com robots are only blocking access to old speeches |
|
15:42
🔗
|
godane |
everyone keeps saying there being deleted by IA when it gets the new robots.txt |
|
15:44
🔗
|
godane |
i don't think this is true cause i have had underground gamer block by robots in wayback machine then they came back when robots.txt didn't exist anymore |
|
20:05
🔗
|
ersi |
w0rp: Are you running Firefox 1.0 or something? |
|
20:06
🔗
|
ersi |
w0rp: Also, 2003 called and wanted their memory leaking complaints back |
|
20:07
🔗
|
BlueMax |
I know a guy who refuses to run anything above Firefox...3 iirc, and he won't upgrade from Windows Vista |
|
20:08
🔗
|
touya |
he should get netscape navigator |
|
20:12
🔗
|
w0rp |
I'm running Firefox 25. |
|
20:12
🔗
|
w0rp |
(Which is really something like 4.3 in my mind.) |
|
20:12
🔗
|
w0rp |
Firefox and Chrome version numbers are completely insane. |
|
20:13
🔗
|
yipdw |
so TIL I learned that a large-screen TV showing CI build status is part of a class of techniques called "Extreme Feedback" |
|
20:13
🔗
|
yipdw |
software developers are so stupid |
|
20:13
🔗
|
yipdw |
EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEME |
|
20:14
🔗
|
yipdw |
Extreme Feedback should be like |
|
20:14
🔗
|
w0rp |
That's just dumb. |
|
20:14
🔗
|
yipdw |
punch to the face if you break the build |
|
20:14
🔗
|
ersi |
w0rp: So.. what are you doing then? My Firefox 25 runs at 500MB with about fifty or so tabs active and about twohundred more inactive |
|
20:14
🔗
|
ersi |
yipdw: I'm pretty sure it comes from the Extreme Programming people ("XP") |
|
20:15
🔗
|
w0rp |
I once worked in a place where they hired the head of security to stand over IT support people and boss them around, and forced them to put their tasks on a spreadsheet application on a screen all the time. |
|
20:15
🔗
|
w0rp |
It reminds me of that. |
|
20:15
🔗
|
yipdw |
ersi: Kent Beck should be forced to program whilst being ball-busted a la Casino Royale |
|
20:15
🔗
|
yipdw |
THAT'S EXTREME PROGRAMMING, MOTHERFUCKERS |
|
20:16
🔗
|
yipdw |
no time for proper factoring of responsibilities while you're strapped to a chair |
|
20:17
🔗
|
w0rp |
Extreme Programming has a dumb name, but the idea isn't dumb. |
|
20:17
🔗
|
ersi |
yipdw: So the only thing that upsets you is the name? |
|
20:17
🔗
|
ersi |
It's just a name :) |
|
20:17
🔗
|
yipdw |
a lot of things upset me about software development |
|
20:17
🔗
|
yipdw |
making fun of it is a good release valve |
|
20:18
🔗
|
yipdw |
it's a bit like Russell Brand being facetious about politics |
|
20:18
🔗
|
yipdw |
because there's no other way to stay sane when you're wading in the shit |
|
20:18
🔗
|
w0rp |
You do have to have a sense of humour about software development. |
|
20:18
🔗
|
w0rp |
I really hate the cynicism, though. |
|
20:19
🔗
|
yipdw |
I do truly think that Kent Beck deserves ball-busting thugh |
|
20:19
🔗
|
w0rp |
Software developers are too often cynical. |
|
20:19
🔗
|
yipdw |
for the primary reason that it'd be awesome |
|
20:19
🔗
|
SmileyG |
w0rp: I recall seeing some software on github had just hit version 60000 ;D |
|
20:19
🔗
|
w0rp |
Fair enough. |
|
20:19
🔗
|
SmileyG |
every single commit == new versions xD |
|
20:20
🔗
|
w0rp |
"Removed whitespace" |
|
20:20
🔗
|
w0rp |
VERSION 600001 |
|
20:20
🔗
|
SmileyG |
over 9000! |
|
20:24
🔗
|
* |
BlueMax shaves SmileyG |
|
20:24
🔗
|
BlueMax |
I'm sorry but that was neccesary |
|
20:25
🔗
|
SmileyG |
:P |
|
20:25
🔗
|
SmileyG |
time to get ready for work :( |
|
20:47
🔗
|
* |
joepie91 is not a fan of named software development strategies and patterns |
|
20:48
🔗
|
Bit| |
you mean things like scrum? |
|
20:49
🔗
|
Bit| |
EXTREME PROGRAMMING |
|
20:49
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Bit|: I mean pretty much everything that is given a name |
|
20:49
🔗
|
joepie91 |
and it's not the ideas themselves I take issue with |
|
20:49
🔗
|
joepie91 |
but the naming of them, and particularly the habit of people to blindly follow whatever is grouped under a "pattern" |
|
20:49
🔗
|
joepie91 |
throwing all common sense and reason overboard |
|
20:49
🔗
|
joepie91 |
same reason I take issue with non-project-specific style guides |
|
20:50
🔗
|
joepie91 |
I have yet to see the first generic style guide that actually includes -reasoning- for its clauses |
|
20:50
🔗
|
joepie91 |
too often it's just "oh yeah X people do Y, so you should too" |
|
20:50
🔗
|
joepie91 |
or worse, personal preference of the author |
|
20:50
🔗
|
Bit| |
hmhm |
|
20:51
🔗
|
joepie91 |
I mean, people abuse style guides, patterns, and software development strategies to the point of them being *counter-productive* |
|
20:51
🔗
|
joepie91 |
wtf |
|
20:51
🔗
|
ersi |
most of the agile methodologies have good points and a lot of them makes sense. Doesn't mean you should follow a methodology though |
|
20:51
🔗
|
joepie91 |
ersi: that's the thing |
|
20:51
🔗
|
ersi |
Pick what works for you, customize it |
|
20:51
🔗
|
joepie91 |
if those points are good, then explain and reason the points |
|
20:51
🔗
|
joepie91 |
done |
|
20:51
🔗
|
ersi |
whatever makes you more comfortable and more productive |
|
20:51
🔗
|
joepie91 |
doesn't need a name, and defintiely doesn't need a rigid process |
|
20:52
🔗
|
joepie91 |
I have no issue with best practices |
|
20:52
🔗
|
joepie91 |
just with the way people deal with them |
|
20:52
🔗
|
joepie91 |
:P |
|
20:52
🔗
|
ersi |
this is not the same as best practises imo |
|
20:52
🔗
|
ersi |
it's your workflow, it's somewhat personal |
|
20:52
🔗
|
joepie91 |
ersi: tell that to #python |
|
20:52
🔗
|
joepie91 |
lol |
|
20:53
🔗
|
joepie91 |
or the YAML devs for that matter |
|
20:53
🔗
|
ersi |
Uh, what. |
|
20:53
🔗
|
Bit| |
ugh |
|
20:53
🔗
|
Bit| |
#python |
|
20:53
🔗
|
Bit| |
stay far away from there |
|
20:53
🔗
|
ersi |
Well, you seem to like overgeneralising |
|
20:53
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Why does YAML forbid tabs? |
|
20:53
🔗
|
joepie91 |
ersi: |
|
20:53
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Tabs have been outlawed since they are treated differently by different editors and tools. And since indentation is so critical to proper interpretation of YAML, this issue is just too tricky to even attempt. Indeed Guido van Rossum of Python has acknowledged that allowing TABs in Python source is a headache for many people and that were he to design Python again, he would forbid them. |
|
20:53
🔗
|
ersi |
I've only had good experiences with #python |
|
20:53
🔗
|
ersi |
Well, at least you got a point/explaination |
|
20:54
🔗
|
joepie91 |
ersi: except it makes no sense |
|
20:54
🔗
|
joepie91 |
:| |
|
20:54
🔗
|
ersi |
I'm a spaces guy myself, or at least these days |
|
20:54
🔗
|
joepie91 |
the "Guido said..." aside, tabs being treated differently display-wise is exactly the POINT of using tabs |
|
20:54
🔗
|
joepie91 |
and is a feature, not a bug |
|
20:54
🔗
|
joepie91 |
tabs themselves also do not magically break |
|
20:54
🔗
|
joepie91 |
it starts being a problem when you mix tabs and spaces |
|
20:54
🔗
|
joepie91 |
and that really has nothing to do with either tabs or spaces specifically |
|
20:55
🔗
|
joepie91 |
as for #python |
|
20:55
🔗
|
joepie91 |
it is fucking awful |
|
20:55
🔗
|
ersi |
"Tabs make indentation and code overview harder" is what I read |
|
20:55
🔗
|
Bit| |
it is |
|
20:55
🔗
|
joepie91 |
ersi: just for fun, try to ask a question about sockets in #python |
|
20:55
🔗
|
ersi |
I see why you had a bad time in #python |
|
20:55
🔗
|
joepie91 |
they will suggest to use Twisted |
|
20:55
🔗
|
joepie91 |
try to explain to them why you do not wish to use Twisted |
|
20:55
🔗
|
ersi |
I'd say the problem is mostly on your end of the stick though :) |
|
20:55
🔗
|
joepie91 |
they will still suggest to use Twisted |
|
20:55
🔗
|
Bit| |
you tell them you have a problem, you outline that you know they are going to tell you to not use the socket library |
|
20:55
🔗
|
joepie91 |
and refuse to answer your question |
|
20:55
🔗
|
Bit| |
and you tell them that you chose this path for a reason |
|
20:55
🔗
|
Bit| |
and they say |
|
20:55
🔗
|
Bit| |
"just use twisted" |
|
20:56
🔗
|
joepie91 |
<ersi>"Tabs make indentation and code overview harder" is what I read |
|
20:56
🔗
|
joepie91 |
point is, they don't |
|
20:56
🔗
|
joepie91 |
they're just configurable-width whitespace |
|
20:56
🔗
|
joepie91 |
that's it |
|
20:56
🔗
|
ersi |
I know what grinds your gears |
|
20:56
🔗
|
ersi |
gears that grinds |
|
20:57
🔗
|
Bit| |
YES |
|
20:57
🔗
|
joepie91 |
ersi, another example |
|
20:57
🔗
|
ersi |
Nah, I'm fine |
|
20:57
🔗
|
joepie91 |
I was trying to subclass string (for a very good reason but too complex to explain here now) |
|
20:57
🔗
|
joepie91 |
and had a question about it |
|
20:57
🔗
|
joepie91 |
but nope |
|
20:58
🔗
|
Bit| |
"why are you doing that do it this way" |
|
20:58
🔗
|
joepie91 |
the only thing I got was "don't subclass string" without even a response to all the other things I said |
|
20:58
🔗
|
joepie91 |
and 0 answer |
|
20:58
🔗
|
w0rp |
>trying to subclass string |
|
20:58
🔗
|
ersi |
nip it in the bud |
|
20:58
🔗
|
w0rp |
Noooo! |
|
20:58
🔗
|
Bit| |
me and my dad have had a conversation about these type of people, he comes across them alot |
|
20:58
🔗
|
joepie91 |
and not even -reasoning- as to why not to subclass string |
|
20:58
🔗
|
ersi |
wastes less time |
|
20:58
🔗
|
joepie91 |
just "don't do it" |
|
20:58
🔗
|
Bit| |
we both decided that the best thing to do is |
|
20:58
🔗
|
Bit| |
say you're writing a library |
|
20:58
🔗
|
ersi |
Because if you don't, you'll have an joepie91 blab for 20 minutes |
|
20:58
🔗
|
Bit| |
so when they tell you to use twisted |
|
20:58
🔗
|
joepie91 |
ersi: and guess what? that makes a channel unhelpful |
|
20:59
🔗
|
Bit| |
you tell them that you're actually writing a library |
|
20:59
🔗
|
Bit| |
(which you may not be) |
|
20:59
🔗
|
Bit| |
which usually ceases the "use twisted" comments |
|
20:59
🔗
|
joepie91 |
ersi: the point of asking for help on IRC or another discussion medium is because your question is wider in scope than a Googleable question |
|
20:59
🔗
|
w0rp |
joepie91: Yeah, using tabs in Python is honestly fine. |
|
20:59
🔗
|
joepie91 |
it makes no sense to then go "oh scope too wide, let's cut it off and ignore everythting said" |
|
20:59
🔗
|
joepie91 |
you're on the wrong medium if that's your approach |
|
21:00
🔗
|
w0rp |
I use four spaces for just about everything myself, but tabs don't break code. |
|
21:00
🔗
|
ersi |
joepie91: I didn't say jack shit about scope |
|
21:00
🔗
|
joepie91 |
ersi: I am refering to |
|
21:00
🔗
|
joepie91 |
<ersi>Because if you don't, you'll have an joepie91 blab for 20 minutes |
|
21:00
🔗
|
joepie91 |
<ersi>nip it in the bud |
|
21:00
🔗
|
joepie91 |
<ersi>wastes less time |
|
21:00
🔗
|
ersi |
w0rp: Yeah, it works as long as it's consistent |
|
21:00
🔗
|
joepie91 |
if that is your attitude, then what are you doing providing "support" on IRC? |
|
21:01
🔗
|
Bit| |
have a glitch hop mix http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3nb6rpz864 |
|
21:01
🔗
|
ersi |
joepie91: Beats having the "waste time" attitude IMO |
|
21:02
🔗
|
ersi |
I'm fine with other people using tabs if they so please. Most others use spaces though |
|
21:02
🔗
|
ersi |
Why even waste time talking about it? Use whatever you want, if you're going against the norm - expect that people will point that out from time to time |
|
21:03
🔗
|
Bit| |
let me |
|
21:03
🔗
|
Bit| |
provide help |
|
21:03
🔗
|
Bit| |
joepie is probably right |
|
21:03
🔗
|
Bit| |
it's annoying but he always is |
|
21:03
🔗
|
Bit| |
>:c |
|
21:03
🔗
|
ersi |
what's annoying is how annoying and whiny he can sound :D |
|
21:03
🔗
|
Bit| |
lol |
|
21:03
🔗
|
ersi |
rantpie91 |
|
21:04
🔗
|
Bit| |
he's known for his rants for a reason, I like to think of it as him having a strong spirit :P |
|
21:04
🔗
|
Bit| |
<3 though yay91 :3 |
|
21:04
🔗
|
joepie91 |
<3 |
|
21:05
🔗
|
* |
joepie91 considers writing a wrapper for YAML Python lib that turns tabs into spaces |
|
21:05
🔗
|
ersi |
As long as it's not in a discussion with me, I don't mind it :) But it does make for annoying forever conversations |
|
21:05
🔗
|
w0rp |
Eww, YAML. |
|
21:05
🔗
|
Bit| |
I wrote my own settings parser before I actually looked hard at yaml |
|
21:05
🔗
|
Bit| |
and decided mine was too close to yaml |
|
21:05
🔗
|
Bit| |
so I just dropped it |
|
21:06
🔗
|
w0rp |
I tinkered with YAML a while ago... Never again. |
|
21:06
🔗
|
ersi |
heh :) |
|
21:06
🔗
|
joepie91 |
w0rp: eh, YAML is by far the best option for structured data... just don't use the object deserialization bits |
|
21:06
🔗
|
joepie91 |
er |
|
21:06
🔗
|
Bit| |
https://gist.github.com/Miethpo/700bbe50e8d21a4575a8 |
|
21:06
🔗
|
joepie91 |
assuming you need to be able to edit it in an editor * |
|
21:06
🔗
|
joepie91 |
JSON is quite clunky with that |
|
21:06
🔗
|
Bit| |
quite a nice program I think, quite proud of it |
|
21:06
🔗
|
yipdw |
if you read the backlog in http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/The_Simpsons-Jeff_Albertson.png voice it's awesome |
|
21:06
🔗
|
yipdw |
just saying |
|
21:07
🔗
|
w0rp |
I write most of my configs in Python itself now. |
|
21:07
🔗
|
Bit| |
yeah I knew a guy that did that |
|
21:07
🔗
|
Bit| |
worked fairly well |
|
21:07
🔗
|
Bit| |
and is actually quite a good idea |
|
21:07
🔗
|
joepie91 |
w0rp: problem is that that doesn't work well for untrusted data |
|
21:07
🔗
|
Bit| |
that too |
|
21:07
🔗
|
joepie91 |
yaml safeload does |
|
21:07
🔗
|
w0rp |
I write mostly Django stuff, so it's kind of encouraged. |
|
21:07
🔗
|
joepie91 |
(emphasis on safeload) |
|
21:07
🔗
|
w0rp |
I wouldn't trust YAML at all. |
|
21:08
🔗
|
w0rp |
If I'm getting data from elsewhere, I'd just use JSON. |
|
21:08
🔗
|
joepie91 |
whoever figured that deserializing objects should be turned on by default, was a fucking moron |
|
21:08
🔗
|
Bit| |
I like json but it is not an option for something that has to be edited by hand |
|
21:08
🔗
|
joepie91 |
but okay |
|
21:08
🔗
|
Bit| |
it's just far far too complex |
|
21:08
🔗
|
joepie91 |
what Bit| sais |
|
21:08
🔗
|
joepie91 |
said * |
|
21:08
🔗
|
joepie91 |
also, Bit|, your nick is a nightmare to autocomplete lol |
|
21:08
🔗
|
joepie91 |
well |
|
21:08
🔗
|
joepie91 |
it's not so much complex |
|
21:08
🔗
|
Bit| |
lol |
|
21:08
🔗
|
joepie91 |
as it is clunky |
|
21:08
🔗
|
Bit| |
sorry |
|
21:08
🔗
|
joepie91 |
constant "" etc |
|
21:08
🔗
|
Bit| |
it is complex |
|
21:08
🔗
|
Bit| |
yeah that |
|
21:08
🔗
|
w0rp |
JSON is really easy to write a parser for. https://github.com/w0rp/dson |
|
21:08
🔗
|
Bit| |
you need to specify scope with curlies |
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21:09
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Bit| |
and use speach marks or apostrophes |
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21:09
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Bit| |
it's just a pain |
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21:09
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joepie91 |
w0rp: basically, msgpack for machine-only, json for human-readable, yaml for human-writable |
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21:09
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Bit| |
why are you writing a json parser there is a native one |
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21:09
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joepie91 |
(my prefered serialization choices) |
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21:09
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Bit| |
ah I see now I read the readme |
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21:09
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Bit| |
ignorem |
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21:10
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joepie91 |
Bit|: you should look at msgpack, it's awesome with -mq |
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21:10
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Bit| |
ignore me* |
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21:10
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joepie91 |
er |
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21:10
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joepie91 |
0mq |
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21:10
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Bit| |
yeah, you pointed me at it joepie |
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21:10
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Bit| |
looks very nice |
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21:10
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joepie91 |
ah |
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21:10
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joepie91 |
right :P |
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21:10
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joepie91 |
shitty memory is shitty |
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21:10
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Bit| |
and I will be using it in future projects |
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21:10
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joepie91 |
oh, one warning ahead |
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21:10
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joepie91 |
if the Python lib segfaults on you |
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21:10
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joepie91 |
shout at the devs |
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21:10
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joepie91 |
their exception handling is a bit.. spotty |
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21:10
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joepie91 |
in my experience |
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21:10
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Bit| |
lol |
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21:10
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joepie91 |
especially with the custom deserializer thing |
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21:11
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joepie91 |
:| |
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21:11
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joepie91 |
sec |
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21:11
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joepie91 |
they weren't passing exceptions on properly |
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21:11
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* |
joepie91 digs up the issue |
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21:11
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joepie91 |
Bit|: |
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21:11
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joepie91 |
https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-python/issues/39 |
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21:12
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Bit| |
ouch |
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21:12
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w0rp |
One thing I learned is that JSON compresses really well with gzip, so I never actually worry about the data becoming too large. |
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21:13
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w0rp |
Flip on the gzip switch on a webserver, and good things happen. |
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21:13
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Bit| |
lol nice |
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21:13
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Bit| |
I'll keep that in mind |
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21:13
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joepie91 |
w0rp: primary advantage of msgpack is unpacking speed |
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21:13
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Bit| |
as json is one of my most favourite things ever |
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21:13
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joepie91 |
also gzip compression is going to be more CPU intensive than using msgpack :) |
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21:17
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w0rp |
I imagine the gzip compression worked well on the files because it was all OLAP data with lots of repeated dimensions. gzip is built around finding repeated character sequences. |
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21:18
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w0rp |
It should apply well to any API that returns lots of objects with the same keys over and over. |
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21:39
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arkhive |
hello. |
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21:42
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arkhive |
found this.. thought it was funny enough to share. http://investor.yahoo.net/releasedetail.cfm?releaseid=173538 |
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21:42
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arkhive |
good ole yahoo. |
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21:57
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M1das |
lol arkhive |
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22:51
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Lord_Nigh |
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/14/us-google-books-idUSBRE9AD0TT20131114?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews |
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22:51
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Lord_Nigh |
well, that a slight win for defense of fair use |
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22:52
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Lord_Nigh |
against the ridiculous bullshit of the authors guild |
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22:52
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Lord_Nigh |
who of course is going to keep appealing this bullshit |
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22:53
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Lord_Nigh |
they want $750 per scanned book from google, even those whose authors are not members of the guild if i remember right |
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22:54
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Bit| |
WTF |
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22:54
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Bit| |
that's returded |
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23:01
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BlueMax |
anything to get dumb people to hand out money |
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23:03
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Bit| |
well I'm glad their going up against google |
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23:03
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Bit| |
who are not dumb |
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23:13
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w0rp |
You quoted an cited my book. |
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23:13
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w0rp |
That will be a thousand dollars. |
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23:21
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Bit| |
lol |