#archiveteam-bs 2014-02-12,Wed

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Time Nickname Message
00:03 πŸ”— Baljem o_O
00:44 πŸ”— SketchCow ha ha
01:01 πŸ”— dashcloud not that it sucks any less, but they'll be taking the place of the blank spots on your new tab page (if you're showing your tab history there)
02:47 πŸ”— dashcloud woo-hoo! my www.dreamlandbbs.com job finally finished (4 days and 21 hours later)
02:51 πŸ”— godane does anyone have a command line tool to download google books
03:53 πŸ”— Aranje er. why does mozilla have to annihilate what little dignity they had left
03:56 πŸ”— ivan` are they?
03:56 πŸ”— Aranje [15:40:18] <botpie91> joepie91: Mozilla to deliver ads in its Firefox browser | ZDNet
03:56 πŸ”— Aranje yeah, from earlier: [15:40:16] <joepie91> .title http://www.zdnet.com/mozilla-to-deliver-ads-in-its-firefox-browser-7000026216/
03:57 πŸ”— ivan` all of their employees are paid via money from Google on a contract that might not be renewed
03:57 πŸ”— Aranje yep
03:57 πŸ”— Aranje 300m/yr it says
03:58 πŸ”— Aranje or 300m over some years
03:58 πŸ”— * Aranje didn't read carefully
03:58 πŸ”— ivan` I don't think they could crowdfund $300m ;)
03:58 πŸ”— Aranje I don't think they could crowdfund 1/10th of that
03:58 πŸ”— Aranje they need a better corporate sponsor
03:59 πŸ”— Aranje one who won't stop them from implementing those epic cookie blocking rules they were going to roll out
04:05 πŸ”— godane so i got most of 1981 issues of infoworld
04:55 πŸ”— yipdw so Directory Tiles is implemented as a XUL app
04:55 πŸ”— yipdw I wonder if AdBlock* will block those
04:55 πŸ”— yipdw the browser has always been at war with itself
05:57 πŸ”— Coderjoe_ yipdw: where was that graph page with the items/second stats again?
05:57 πŸ”— yipdw http://zeppelin.xrtc.net/corp.xrtc.net/shilling.corp.xrtc.net/project_items.html
05:57 πŸ”— Coderjoe thanks
06:31 πŸ”— SketchCow We spent an hour on missing images on archive.org.
06:31 πŸ”— SketchCow Turned out? Adblock.
06:31 πŸ”— SketchCow Adblock blocks ANY IMAGE WITH THE FILENAME *_advertisement.*
06:31 πŸ”— SketchCow ANY
07:22 πŸ”— DFJustin haha downside to new pc, just now noticed pidgin using 1.7gb of ram once it actually stopped functioning
10:22 πŸ”— ex-parrot yipdw: that is a neat sentiment. imma quote you on that :)
10:45 πŸ”— SketchCow I am worried we're letting some things slip between the cracks.
10:45 πŸ”— SketchCow I'll update the front page of the wiki.
11:22 πŸ”— ersi https://blog.mozilla.org/advancingcontent/2014/02/11/publisher-transformation-with-users-at-the-center/ is imo a better resource than the zdnet article
11:28 πŸ”— SketchCow Why, because you like the slurping sound of someone blowing business with a handwave of implied value to end-users?
11:28 πŸ”— SketchCow How about if those terrible, soul-aching tiles were instead used for really positive causes pushing open source or free speech?
11:29 πŸ”— SketchCow What if we stood back for a moment, reconsidered the horror of blank squares as a way to make Firefox lead us to one of their endless internal programs people are slaving over to make the web easier to use and standards complient?
11:40 πŸ”— SketchCow https://twitter.com/textfiles/status/433566184949039104
12:38 πŸ”— joepie91 "The new tab page isnҀ™t delivering any value for them."
12:38 πŸ”— joepie91 "delivering value to" is pretty much the red flag of marketing
12:39 πŸ”— joepie91 I don't think I've ever seen it used for anything that wasn't an attempt at trying to convince people that they're "helping" them when they're actually profiting off them
12:40 πŸ”— Leo_TCK perhaps someone should do it the opposite way
12:41 πŸ”— Leo_TCK WE TAKE FROM THE RICH
12:41 πŸ”— Leo_TCK AND GIVE TO THE POOR
12:41 πŸ”— Leo_TCK !
12:48 πŸ”— joepie91 Leo_TCK: that seems to get you arrested in most cases
12:48 πŸ”— joepie91 somehow, taking from the poor and giving to the rich is morally okay though, or something
12:50 πŸ”— joepie91 <ivan`>[07:57:29] all of their employees are paid via money from Google on a contract that might not be renewed
12:50 πŸ”— joepie91 which people have been pointing out as a really bad idea for quite some time now
12:50 πŸ”— joepie91 and this would be why
12:50 πŸ”— joepie91 single points of failure are bad mmk
13:12 πŸ”— midas because this is -bs, i'd like to state on the record that i hate exim.
13:12 πŸ”— midas s/on/for
14:12 πŸ”— rduser postfix master race
14:32 πŸ”— SketchCow If anything is master race, it's qmail
14:36 πŸ”— midas qmail has one downside
14:36 πŸ”— midas it's a small one, but still
14:37 πŸ”— midas morons who configure it.
14:37 πŸ”— midas not really a fault of qmail, but still
14:38 πŸ”— midas openrelay as default relay, not really a fancy feature :p
15:46 πŸ”— Schbirid oh shit, my new internet is 16mbit/s, i was used to 6 before. my poor harddisks :(
15:48 πŸ”— midas download ALL the nets
15:50 πŸ”— Schbirid since www.wieistmeineip.de has turned into shit, what is a good flash-less speedtest?
15:51 πŸ”— Schbirid nvm
16:00 πŸ”— nico http://testdebit.info/
16:00 πŸ”— nico there some files there
16:00 πŸ”— Smiley wget + those
16:01 πŸ”— Smiley wget + google for "index.htm" + 1000Mb
16:01 πŸ”— Schbirid wanted to test upstream too, found a german one
17:44 πŸ”— midas in other news: http://www7.pic-upload.de/12.02.14/7fqav2wzpwn.gif
17:44 πŸ”— midas awesome gif
19:27 πŸ”— ivan` http://www.wikitree.us/story/2139 gotta love people who make videos like this
20:45 πŸ”— godane i'm uploading a ton of world news tonight videos: https://archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3Agodaneinbox%20AND%20subject%3A%22World%20News%20Tonight%22&sort=-publicdate
20:46 πŸ”— godane 763 videos already
20:46 πŸ”— godane anyways this json bothers me: http://content-us-east-1.uplynk.com/player/assetinfo/514b0d7cfa76487daf3cca0d85437678.json
20:47 πŸ”— godane only cause it using filename as a description of something
20:47 πŸ”— godane my problem is that gma has all most nothing there anymore
21:02 πŸ”— Leo_TCK ok here then
21:02 πŸ”— xmc hi
21:03 πŸ”— xmc but wtf, rfid trashcans?
21:03 πŸ”— Leo_TCK yes
21:03 πŸ”— joepie91 xmc; yes
21:03 πŸ”— joepie91 they do not YET charge us per bagg
21:03 πŸ”— joepie91 bag *
21:03 πŸ”— xmc that's ludicrous
21:03 πŸ”— joepie91 but they've been replacing all mechanical open collection bins with bins that require cards
21:03 πŸ”— Leo_TCK it's big brother is watching you stuff anyway
21:03 πŸ”— joepie91 and I know for a fact that these new bins have a weighing mechanism
21:03 πŸ”— joepie91 xmc: it is
21:03 πŸ”— joepie91 welcome to the Netherlands lol
21:04 πŸ”— joepie91 I'll actually predict it here: within the next 3-4 years, HVC (trash collection company here) will start charging by the kilogram
21:04 πŸ”— xmc I don't see why they shouldn't
21:04 πŸ”— joepie91 xmc: these are (formerly) municipal trash collection services, not business
21:04 πŸ”— joepie91 it has all been privatized
21:04 πŸ”— joepie91 note that we ALSO pay waste tax
21:05 πŸ”— joepie91 which is SUPPOSED to cover the costs for this stuff
21:05 πŸ”— xmc hmmmm.
21:05 πŸ”— joepie91 xmc: the netherlands is currently in a very fucked state
21:05 πŸ”— joepie91 basically, imagine a socialist country that is in the process of privatizing
21:05 πŸ”— joepie91 all the socialist constructs (in terms of paying taxes, etc.) are still there
21:05 πŸ”— joepie91 but the benefits are slowly being broken down
21:05 πŸ”— xmc here in seattle we have socialized water, sewer, electricity, trash (not natgas though)
21:06 πŸ”— joepie91 all is privatized to some degree here afaik
21:06 πŸ”— xmc seattle water is great, we bought a whole mountain/river/valley watershed long ago
21:06 πŸ”— xmc yeeee
21:06 πŸ”— xmc so we drink unfiltered snow water
21:06 πŸ”— joepie91 Evides for water and waste water here, a bunch of providers for electricity but Stedin is the one managing the network
21:06 πŸ”— joepie91 trash done by HVC
21:07 πŸ”— Leo_TCK yes there are no post ofices either, you do it in what in czech we call "traffic stores" and stores with general stuff or small book stores
21:07 πŸ”— joepie91 none of those are government entities
21:07 πŸ”— joepie91 Leo_TCK: that's also a recent development
21:07 πŸ”— joepie91 like, last 6-8 years
21:07 πŸ”— Leo_TCK i am aware of that
21:07 πŸ”— joepie91 ... after the privatization of the postal services, of course
21:07 πŸ”— Leo_TCK yea
21:07 πŸ”— * joepie91 sighs
21:07 πŸ”— xmc wow, sounds like a fucked place
21:07 πŸ”— joepie91 xmc: it absolutely is
21:07 πŸ”— Leo_TCK and before that privatization of health insurance stuff
21:07 πŸ”— joepie91 bahaha
21:07 πŸ”— midas nah, we have hoe's and weed xmc
21:07 πŸ”— joepie91 if only
21:08 πŸ”— xmc midas: we have weed too
21:08 πŸ”— joepie91 Leo_TCK: the problem is that health insurance ISN'T fully privatized
21:08 πŸ”— midas see, we are like seattle
21:08 πŸ”— xmc in some parts of this region the electricity is private, and those places it costs 2.5x as much
21:08 πŸ”— joepie91 Leo_TCK: health insurance in NL is government-mandated, but privately provided
21:08 πŸ”— xmc similar to usa, joepie91
21:08 πŸ”— joepie91 xmc: I mean the insurance
21:08 πŸ”— joepie91 not the actual healthcare
21:09 πŸ”— xmc what do you mean?
21:09 πŸ”— joepie91 you HAVE to take services with a commercial health insurance provider
21:09 πŸ”— xmc same here
21:09 πŸ”— joepie91 if you don't, the government fines you for that
21:09 πŸ”— xmc yup
21:09 πŸ”— joepie91 xmc: afaik the insurance itself was through government entity in US?
21:09 πŸ”— midas joepie91: healthcare in the us is the same as in .nl
21:09 πŸ”— xmc only for old people and the poor
21:09 πŸ”— xmc and disabled people and veterans
21:09 πŸ”— midas since healthcare.org
21:09 πŸ”— joepie91 xmc: the poor are basically just screwed here
21:09 πŸ”— joepie91 pay up or else
21:09 πŸ”— xmc huh
21:09 πŸ”— joepie91 so you have a fixed expense of around 100 euro a month min
21:09 πŸ”— midas joepie91: not true
21:09 πŸ”— xmc yeah if you don't make enough you get subsidized healthcare
21:10 πŸ”— xmc if you can navigate the forms and paperwork
21:10 πŸ”— joepie91 xmc: it is only partly subsidized here
21:10 πŸ”— xmc which I've heard varying opinions of
21:10 πŸ”— joepie91 which means that if you don't HAVE an income to cover anything besides a roof above your head, you're still screwed
21:10 πŸ”— midas the poor get subsidized healthcare if needed or from private organisations
21:10 πŸ”— joepie91 midas: the poor get partial subsidy
21:11 πŸ”— joepie91 what was it... 65 euro for a 110 euro a month health insurance policy?
21:11 πŸ”— midas depending on your contract, yeah
21:11 πŸ”— joepie91 something along those lines
21:11 πŸ”— joepie91 midas: the problem is that partial subsidy isn't enough for many people
21:12 πŸ”— midas but also hospitals have to help you here, even without any insurence
21:12 πŸ”— joepie91 ... and you are then hounded over the bills
21:12 πŸ”— midas holy crap, my typeskills are dropping like stones
21:12 πŸ”— joepie91 midas: knowing several people who don't have the income to pay for insurance, this is a real problem
21:13 πŸ”— joepie91 and it's an absolutely ludicrous model
21:13 πŸ”— xmc much of the world is fucked
21:13 πŸ”— xmc maybe someday I'll move to finland
21:13 πŸ”— joepie91 either privatize it all the way, or socialize it all the way
21:13 πŸ”— joepie91 not some fucky inbetween version where the government is effectively subsidizing private corporations
21:13 πŸ”— xmc usa seems to be re-socializing
21:13 πŸ”— joepie91 t the cost of peoples health and ability to cover life expenses
21:13 πŸ”— joepie91 at *
21:13 πŸ”— midas both are not a option
21:13 πŸ”— midas well, not in the short time
21:14 πŸ”— joepie91 midas; NL has had fully socialized healthcare for a long time
21:14 πŸ”— midas short run*
21:14 πŸ”— joepie91 literally EVERYBODY I have spoken to who had practical experience on any end of the scale, has confirmed that the current model is worse than the previous model
21:14 πŸ”— joepie91 patients
21:14 πŸ”— joepie91 doctors
21:14 πŸ”— joepie91 lawyers
21:14 πŸ”— midas yeah, but we also had the gulden back then, wim kok, and alot of other stuff we dont have anymore nowadays
21:15 πŸ”— joepie91 midas: that isn't relevant to the point
21:15 πŸ”— joepie91 the new system is more fucked up than the previous system, that is what the point is
21:15 πŸ”— joepie91 and I don't say that from an "omg derp lets do politics" point of view
21:15 πŸ”— joepie91 I say that from a point of view that I find it disgusting that real people have real trouble covering even basic life expenses
21:15 πŸ”— midas because the biggest issue is our current leadership, who cant see they are steering a shipwreck into another accident
21:15 πŸ”— joepie91 because of somebody with a political / corporate agenda
21:15 πŸ”— joepie91 no
21:16 πŸ”— joepie91 the biggest issue is the system that lets that "current leadership" exist
21:16 πŸ”— joepie91 goddamnit, distractions
21:18 πŸ”— midas yeah, but for a social state we first need money, and to get money we need to spend money on local businesses, not outsource everything to the rest of europe, we should tax companies like google, dell, starbucks and all other companies who use a double dutch sandwich tax evationscheme. if that happens we actually have a steady income to help people.
21:18 πŸ”— * joepie91 sighs
21:18 πŸ”— midas companies need to learn that to do business with countries they are part of the solution in the future
21:18 πŸ”— joepie91 midas: do you realize that you're trying to compress a "solution" for just about every single problem that exists in the Netherlands into a single sentence
21:18 πŸ”— joepie91 that should set the alarm bells ringing
21:18 πŸ”— midas yeah
21:18 πŸ”— joepie91 the world isn't that simple
21:19 πŸ”— midas i know.
21:20 πŸ”— midas it's even worse, I am part of the issue.
21:21 πŸ”— midas what is normal income in the netherlands? 2500 euro's a month?
21:21 πŸ”— joepie91 also, midas, as to what you are suggesting
21:21 πŸ”— joepie91 do I need to point out that in recent history there hasn't been a year where the NL govt hasn't increased its debt
21:21 πŸ”— joepie91 so the entire "we need money by X" doesn't really hold water, as that didn't work before either
21:21 πŸ”— midas do you know what a double dutch sandwich is?
21:21 πŸ”— joepie91 yes...
21:21 πŸ”— midas tax it.
21:22 πŸ”— midas not a 0.1 % like we do now, but proper tax it like normal local companies are taxed
21:22 πŸ”— midas it would solve the issue, because we are the ONLY country that has such a solution.
21:23 πŸ”— joepie91 ...
21:23 πŸ”— joepie91 midas...
21:23 πŸ”— joepie91 please tell me that you're not being serious
21:23 πŸ”— * Smiley watches no understanding
21:23 πŸ”— joepie91 Smiley: it's a tax construct
21:23 πŸ”— joepie91 to minimize corporate tax by jumping through a bunch of countries
21:23 πŸ”— Smiley yey ireland!
21:23 πŸ”— midas just 2.
21:23 πŸ”— joepie91 and NL plays a central role in many of these
21:23 πŸ”— midas ireland and .nl
21:24 πŸ”— Smiley oh wow i'm right :D
21:24 πŸ”— joepie91 midas: I am not just refering to this particular construct
21:24 πŸ”— Smiley cayman!
21:24 πŸ”— Smiley [2014-02-12 21:23:22] accepted: 25/25 (100.00%), 33.50 khash/s (yay!!!)
21:24 πŸ”— Smiley yey
21:24 πŸ”— joepie91 midas: has it occurred to you that these companies WOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE if you raised the taxes, because their entire reason for being here is the low taxes?
21:24 πŸ”— joepie91 thus not giving you any net profit by increasing taxes?
21:24 πŸ”— joepie91 I mean, I don't get how this isn't an obvious problem with your suggestion
21:24 πŸ”— midas and where would they jump to?
21:25 πŸ”— joepie91 midas: they'd switch to any of the other 346890934 tax constructs?
21:25 πŸ”— joepie91 or do you think this is the only one? :|
21:25 πŸ”— midas caymans? nope not happening. swiss? sorry we sold your tax history to france and germany a looong time ago, Lichtenstein? sure, we are a tax haven, but not really.
21:26 πŸ”— joepie91 midas: have you watched the tax free tour?
21:26 πŸ”— midas nope.
21:26 πŸ”— joepie91 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4o13isDdfY
21:26 πŸ”— joepie91 now would be a good time to do so
21:26 πŸ”— joepie91 it's an entire documentary about this topic
21:27 πŸ”— joepie91 and I should get back to work in the meantime
21:27 πŸ”— Leo_TCK back, hold on lemme read
21:27 πŸ”— Leo_TCK i had to go afk in emergency
21:27 πŸ”— midas "this video is currently unavailable"
21:28 πŸ”— joepie91 wat
21:28 πŸ”— midas go yootoob
21:28 πŸ”— midas shitty service
21:28 πŸ”— joepie91 nonsense, works fine here
21:28 πŸ”— midas you need a screenshot to believe me?
21:28 πŸ”— yipdw works here
21:28 πŸ”— yipdw maybe you hit a bad Google node
21:28 πŸ”— joepie91 midas: just fix it ;)
21:29 πŸ”— midas and after 150.000 f5's yootoob starts working again.
21:33 πŸ”— Leo_TCK ok read it
21:33 πŸ”— joepie91 Leo_TCK: fast reader
21:33 πŸ”— Leo_TCK well at least joepie isnt one of those zombies i see everyday that are entirely happy with the system and think its such a great free country
21:33 πŸ”— Smiley :D
21:33 πŸ”— Leo_TCK lol
21:33 πŸ”— * joepie91 mutters something about Dutch people being especially bad with that
21:34 πŸ”— Leo_TCK and 2500 euro a month a normal income? i could dream of that muc money a month
21:34 πŸ”— Leo_TCK i mean it
21:34 πŸ”— Leo_TCK were way below the minimum
21:35 πŸ”— joepie91 2500 would be quite a lot for me :P
21:35 πŸ”— nico Leo_TCK: more than i earn each month
21:35 πŸ”— joepie91 my normal income is more like 700 or so
21:35 πŸ”— nico ~ 1800҂¬
21:35 πŸ”— nico here
21:36 πŸ”— Leo_TCK 600 euro from my partner plus my 160 euro after conversion fees (curently after the money has been lowered in favor of euro) from czech as a "disability pension"
21:36 πŸ”— Leo_TCK now with that its real trouble to get by
21:37 πŸ”— Leo_TCK if i knew something like that would happen i would never move here
21:38 πŸ”— Leo_TCK but no the people around think i choose it that way or choose to look crap or
21:39 πŸ”— Leo_TCK even though i was originally fed a bunch of lies and propaganda which lured me
21:39 πŸ”— joepie91 lies seem to be common :)
21:39 πŸ”— joepie91 everywhere
21:40 πŸ”— Leo_TCK yea
21:41 πŸ”— Leo_TCK and as for the health insurance yeah
21:41 πŸ”— Leo_TCK an guess what happens if you are still citizen of other country
21:41 πŸ”— Leo_TCK they require you to get dutch insurance too
21:41 πŸ”— joepie91 lol
21:42 πŸ”— Leo_TCK but its not as simple as it sounds still
21:42 πŸ”— Leo_TCK thats where it fails horribly, it worked with the old system apparently
21:42 πŸ”— Leo_TCK but
21:42 πŸ”— Leo_TCK it means now in practice that only few insurance companies can do it
21:42 πŸ”— Leo_TCK and i got it done by a company which wasnt allowed to do so actually
21:43 πŸ”— Leo_TCK but they told me they can
21:43 πŸ”— Leo_TCK and then when it turned out they made mistake
21:43 πŸ”— Leo_TCK guess what happened
21:43 πŸ”— Leo_TCK they wanted all the money back
21:43 πŸ”— Leo_TCK from me
21:43 πŸ”— Leo_TCK and sent dept collectors
21:43 πŸ”— joepie91 lol
21:43 πŸ”— joepie91 that sounds very Dutch
21:44 πŸ”— Leo_TCK it took long time to fight it back/win it but in the end they had to give up and even returned few "bucks" to me in the end, had to
21:44 πŸ”— Leo_TCK lol
21:44 πŸ”— joepie91 NL is starting to be a bit of a mini-US
21:44 πŸ”— Leo_TCK yea
21:46 πŸ”— Leo_TCK my insurance is basically paid from czech, the basic health insurance is covered but the company that gave me the ealth insurnace in nl wsnt allowed to do it on that basis and isntead of dealing wth the czech side
21:46 πŸ”— Leo_TCK they threatened me personally even though i sent forms and evidence and the czech side they tried to ignore
21:46 πŸ”— Leo_TCK and still insisted on having be paid
21:47 πŸ”— Leo_TCK and then suddenly letter from dept collector agency and shit going down and having to contact embassy etc
21:48 πŸ”— Leo_TCK really great
21:50 πŸ”— Leo_TCK oh well, at least you still seem to have largely your own agriculture
21:50 πŸ”— Leo_TCK which is not bad
21:50 πŸ”— joepie91 lol
21:50 πŸ”— joepie91 Leo_TCK : not quite
21:51 πŸ”— joepie91 we theoretically still have agriculture, ye
21:51 πŸ”— joepie91 yes *
21:51 πŸ”— joepie91 but what you buy in stores is typically not from NL
21:51 πŸ”— joepie91 aside from dairy
21:51 πŸ”— joepie91 for whatever backwards reason, Dutch agriculture products are usually exported, and foreign ones are imported
21:52 πŸ”— Leo_TCK it is, well depends on some, i saw that in albert heijn they have now many vegetables and stuff from as far as maracco etc but i hope thats mostly because of the winter now, but there are places elsewhere
21:52 πŸ”— Leo_TCK where you can get dutch stuff still
21:53 πŸ”— Leo_TCK but even then its mch better situation than what they did with czech after joining to EU
21:54 πŸ”— Leo_TCK agricuutre almost entirely screwed up aside some little stuff, not even dairy these days, like theres butter apparently these days imported from elsewhere
21:54 πŸ”— joepie91 only organic stuff etc. is usually local
21:54 πŸ”— joepie91 lol
21:54 πŸ”— joepie91 I think it might be time for me to sleep
21:54 πŸ”— Leo_TCK it seems the other way to me, i saw many organic products being imported, but hmm, well aside specialized stores but i cant afford that now
21:55 πŸ”— Leo_TCK ok, 'night
21:55 πŸ”— joepie91 Leo_TCK: I mean organic stores
21:55 πŸ”— joepie91 not 'organic' stuff in supermarkets
21:55 πŸ”— joepie91 :P
21:55 πŸ”— joepie91 but, goodnight :)
21:55 πŸ”— Leo_TCK yea the eko stores, yes, i used to go to one
21:55 πŸ”— Leo_TCK but stopped later
21:55 πŸ”— Leo_TCK ok night
21:56 πŸ”— Leo_TCK but yeah i meant now organic in supermarkets
21:56 πŸ”— Leo_TCK because thats where im only going these days usually
irclogger-viewer