#archiveteam-bs 2016-05-19,Thu

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00:43 πŸ”— JW_work hook54321: I think I found it for you: http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno-plus?aid=wmw&datum=1938&page=5&size=45
00:44 πŸ”— JW_work The problem was that the journal name was mis-stated
00:54 πŸ”— JW_work nope, that appears to be a book review, and I can't find it anyway
00:58 πŸ”— JW_work I found it, but yes, it's a book review: http://anno.onb.ac.at/cgi-content/anno-plus?aid=wmw&datum=1938&page=315&size=45
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06:03 πŸ”— hook54321 JW_work, book review? O_o
06:11 πŸ”— JesseW If anyone is interested in discussing responses to the recent takeover of SSRN by Elsevier, feel free to join #ssave_rsn
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06:52 πŸ”— hook54321 SketchCow, what does it mean for someone to be admin of their collections?
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14:13 πŸ”— SketchCow It's like a master of their domain.
14:14 πŸ”— SketchCow IA has collections. Like "computermagazines" or "doggyepisodes", with items or another collection in them.
14:14 πŸ”— SketchCow If someone uploads a bunch of stuff, we might make them in charge of a collection.
14:14 πŸ”— SketchCow And then they can do stuff to it.
14:23 πŸ”— atrocity what is ssrn?
14:29 πŸ”— vitzli Social Science Research Network
14:51 πŸ”— SketchCow Hiphop mixtapes went large on reddit/hackernews, so that definitely got attention and I'm seeing the ripples.
14:51 πŸ”— SketchCow Not done giving the torrent list I have the once over, that's still going on.
14:52 πŸ”— SketchCow The "console demos" on Internet Archive have also gone well, all working pretty OK and I'm trying to implement more before I head to Japan
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18:31 πŸ”— joepie91 it's official
18:31 πŸ”— joepie91 malware authors now have a better EOL policy than most startups
18:31 πŸ”— joepie91 TeslaCrypt authors are going out of business
18:31 πŸ”— joepie91 and published the universal master key
18:31 πŸ”— joepie91 for decrypting everything that's encrypted with TeslaCrypt
18:32 πŸ”— joepie91 cc SketchCow
18:32 πŸ”— JW_work TeslaCrypt is cryptlocker malware, I presume?
18:32 πŸ”— joepie91 aye
18:32 πŸ”— MrRadar Was. They shut down their C&C server
18:33 πŸ”— MrRadar When a security researcher realized what was happening they asked Teslacrypt's online chat support if they would be willing to post the master key, which they did
18:33 πŸ”— MrRadar Probably the most productive use of online chat support ever
18:35 πŸ”— xmc in terms of dollar value per minute? ..., yeah.
19:10 πŸ”— atrocity wow
19:15 πŸ”— midas wow joepie91
19:28 πŸ”— phillipsj ..wow.
19:29 πŸ”— phillipsj wait, does that mean that cryptolockers no longer pay well enough, or that the author just had enough money to retire for 2 lifetimes?
19:33 πŸ”— Frogging luckcolor, PurpleSym: Would that work though? If the IA would dark it unencrypted then why wouldn't they do the same to encrypted files, if they were made aware
19:33 πŸ”— MrRadar And they might dark it for "spam" if they're not aware of the content (since it would be complete gibberish without the decryption key)
19:33 πŸ”— PurpleSym Also, they probably don’t see any value in encrypted files.
19:33 πŸ”— luckcolor mmh
19:34 πŸ”— luckcolor the ideas was just temporary i mean
19:34 πŸ”— Frogging it
19:34 πŸ”— Frogging sorry
19:34 πŸ”— luckcolor this would work if he data like needs to saty encrypted fro a smal period of time
19:34 πŸ”— Frogging it's a risk though, because if they do that then the data is as good as gone
19:34 πŸ”— luckcolor yeah
19:36 πŸ”— schbirid dont dump terabytes of encrypted data into IA please
19:37 πŸ”— luckcolor i mean either someone has a big space were stuff can be stored or this project is not really going anywhere
19:42 πŸ”— Frogging if I had either 50TB, or a few thousand dollars sitting around, I would. But alas... :p
19:43 πŸ”— zino I tecjnically have 50T. What do we need to store this time?
19:43 πŸ”— zino tech*
19:43 πŸ”— joepie91 phillipsj: I haven't the foggiest
19:43 πŸ”— JW_work zino: the discussion is about storing a copy of libgen
19:45 πŸ”— zino Ah. Well, that doesn't sound like a panic offloading. Not doing that then.
19:45 πŸ”— JW_work nope, not a panic offloading.
19:45 πŸ”— Frogging I thought it was Sci-Hub
19:45 πŸ”— Frogging or is that the same thing
19:46 πŸ”— JW_work SciHub is the tool for automatically passing requests for DOIs through to donated site accounts. libgen is the store of papers.
19:46 πŸ”— Frogging ah, okay
19:47 πŸ”— schbirid i dont worry about libgen
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19:48 πŸ”— * blahah waves
19:48 πŸ”— JW_work Hi blahah!
19:48 πŸ”— blahah I've been classified as bs -_-
19:48 πŸ”— blahah I'm here to embrace it
19:48 πŸ”— Frogging lol it's just because #archiveteam is supposed to be a low-traffic channel
19:48 πŸ”— blahah ah I see, very reasonable
19:48 πŸ”— Frogging that's why there's a separate channel for every little thing, this is the catch-all
19:48 πŸ”— luckcolor yeah welcome here too
19:48 πŸ”— luckcolor :P
19:49 πŸ”— JW_work I wonder how many pieces 50TB would have to be broken up into to be turned into comment field spam...
19:49 πŸ”— Frogging lmao
19:49 πŸ”— blahah haha, I like that line of thinking
19:49 πŸ”— blahah it's 50 million papers
19:49 πŸ”— JW_work I don't know anyone with access to a massive spamming operation β€” but that might be a good way to handle it.
19:49 πŸ”— blahah so any level of atomicity between each paper stored separately, right up to all of them in a single archive, is tractable
19:50 πŸ”— luckcolor well another idea could be to make the ouput data smaller
19:50 πŸ”— luckcolor instead of gzipping the warc
19:50 πŸ”— Frogging yeah, is the 50TB before or after compression?
19:50 πŸ”— JW_work If you were to stuff them into comment boxes, you'd probably need to break them up by paragraph, not paper.
19:50 πŸ”— luckcolor if we are going to use warc.gz it will be gzip
19:50 πŸ”— Frogging if it's "papers" then it should be easily compressable
19:50 πŸ”— luckcolor use lzma 2
19:51 πŸ”— JW_work It would be really entertaining to throw the entire contents of libgen into random blog comment boxes, though.
19:51 πŸ”— Frogging I imagine a lot of it would just get filtered :p
19:51 πŸ”— luckcolor lel
19:51 πŸ”— JW_work right, but often filtered stuff remains in various logs, etc.
19:51 πŸ”— Frogging after auto-filters, administrator deletions, and fly-by-night websites disappearing, I think you'd not get a good retention :p
19:52 πŸ”— luckcolor yeah
19:52 πŸ”— JW_work I think you'd get a much better retention than without doing it, though.
19:52 πŸ”— Frogging well, yeah, you spread out the SPOF at least :p
19:52 πŸ”— JW_work It would be highly painful to restore from, though.
19:53 πŸ”— luckcolor another funny solution i've seen was to split the files in strings which you coul attach to bitcoin transactions comments:
19:53 πŸ”— luckcolor problrms
19:53 πŸ”— JW_work for that matter, I don't know that this isn't *already being done* β€” you've seen the random semi-science-paper-sounding stuff inserted into various email spam, haven't you? Maybe that's from libgen
19:53 πŸ”— luckcolor need loads of money
19:53 πŸ”— luckcolor and will take years :P
19:54 πŸ”— JW_work printing it on t-shirts would probably be infeasible
19:55 πŸ”— blahah 50tb is with moderate compression
19:55 πŸ”— Frogging comment spam, bitcoin comments, t-shirts... we're getting progressively more ridiculous :p
19:55 πŸ”— blahah it's productive I think
19:55 πŸ”— blahah for example the tshirt idea is not so crazy
19:55 πŸ”— blahah except instead of t-shirts, some other kind of media
19:55 πŸ”— blahah like dna
19:56 πŸ”— Frogging like... paper
19:56 πŸ”— blahah something electronically readable
19:56 πŸ”— JW_work it's much easier to print 94 699 040 255 592 155 765 623 877 on t-shirts
19:56 πŸ”— blahah but DNA is self-preserving and self-copying
19:56 πŸ”— blahah and much smaller :)
19:57 πŸ”— blahah ok so I like the comment idea - generalising that, we're talking about putting the data in some place where someone else will archive it for us because they are already doing that
19:57 πŸ”— bwn ..maybe there's a paper on the subject? ;)
19:58 πŸ”— zino I mean, give it a few years and we can just store it in everyones homes. Storage scales faster than the writing of papers. My home backup machine is 4u and 84T. And it's 5 year old hardware.
19:59 πŸ”— blahah nice
19:59 πŸ”— blahah how much would it cost to put it on microsds?
19:59 πŸ”— schbirid alot
20:01 πŸ”— blahah OK, here's another line of thinking
20:01 πŸ”— blahah I'm a scientist and I can apply for funding, and I collaborate with much better scientists than me who can get more funding
20:01 πŸ”— JW_work zino: have you read DSHR's blog on the topic of storage costs?
20:02 πŸ”— JW_work e,g, http://blog.dshr.org/2016/05/the-future-of-storage.html
20:02 πŸ”— blahah we're looking at what we can collaborate with the IA on, to bring in money for massive-scale storage of science stuff
20:02 πŸ”— blahah do you guys have examples of important things that care currently too big for the IA to handle, that are (a) legal and (b) recognisable to normal people
20:02 πŸ”— blahah guys / gals
20:02 πŸ”— yipdw YouTube
20:03 πŸ”— luckcolor well youtube is just soo much
20:03 πŸ”— zino JW_work: I'll get on that. He seems to talk about things I spend my days thinking about.
20:03 πŸ”— schbirid $pornsites
20:03 πŸ”— luckcolor 600pb +
20:03 πŸ”— yipdw yes
20:03 πŸ”— blahah it's not too much for google
20:03 πŸ”— JW_work zino: yes his blog is VERY WORTH READING.
20:03 πŸ”— luckcolor yeah apparently :P
20:03 πŸ”— blahah and cold storing it is a different thing than hot storing
20:04 πŸ”— luckcolor well they have you know
20:04 πŸ”— luckcolor BIG datacenters
20:04 πŸ”— Frogging google has pockets deeper than the marianas trench
20:04 πŸ”— blahah ok here's a question - can you store data inside youtube videos?
20:04 πŸ”— luckcolor think so
20:04 πŸ”— yipdw yeah, video frames
20:04 πŸ”— blahah steganography, frame by frame?
20:04 πŸ”— yipdw audio frames
20:04 πŸ”— yipdw oh you meant something else
20:04 πŸ”— yipdw never mind
20:05 πŸ”— blahah no I meant that
20:05 πŸ”— luckcolor you could put the data in video an the keep them private
20:05 πŸ”— Frogging you can, just as long as it retains integrity through compression
20:05 πŸ”— blahah anyone know of an algorithm to put arbitrary data inside a video?
20:05 πŸ”— yipdw I didn't realize what this conversation was about so I should realllllly back away from this one
20:05 πŸ”— Rotab i think i read about that somewhere
20:05 πŸ”— Frogging yipdw: storing libgen somewhere :p
20:05 πŸ”— blahah Frogging: yeah that's the issue in general with steganography
20:05 πŸ”— yipdw just download it and put it on disks or tapes
20:05 πŸ”— blahah yipdw: I'm asking in abstract though, not just for that
20:06 πŸ”— blahah I work in genomics where we deal with petabytes of dna sequencing data
20:06 πŸ”— blahah oh wait
20:06 πŸ”— blahah ...
20:06 πŸ”— schbirid http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=INTERNETARCHIVE.BAK
20:06 πŸ”— blahah we can encode anything as dna
20:06 πŸ”— xmc relevant : http://web.cse.msstate.edu/~ramkumar/icassp01gang.pdf
20:06 πŸ”— Frogging blahah: then do it :p
20:06 πŸ”— luckcolor blahah XD
20:06 πŸ”— blahah can't believe I didn't think of that until now ;\
20:08 πŸ”— zino blahah: Oh, are you one of the sciententists filling my disks with PB of bio data and then processing it with Perl scripts? :-)
20:08 πŸ”— blahah zino: no, but I will join you in complaining about those people
20:08 πŸ”— blahah perl is the bane of my life
20:08 πŸ”— zino blahah: Heh
20:08 πŸ”— blahah but I do fill disks with PB of data
20:09 πŸ”— xmc yum
20:09 πŸ”— blahah perl is about the only language I refuse to use
20:09 πŸ”— blahah this channel is awesome
20:09 πŸ”— Frogging lol
20:10 πŸ”— blahah you are all heroes, the world will look back and recognise archiveteam as one of the most forward-thinking movements on the net
20:10 πŸ”— luckcolor yeah
20:10 πŸ”— JW_work or put us all in prison (or both)
20:10 πŸ”— blahah it's kind of crazy how people just take the internet for granted
20:10 πŸ”— zino To be fair, most of my scientists are well behaved physicists. The fetish for FORTRAN is a bit unsettling, but they try their best to make efficient code.
20:10 πŸ”— yipdw or burn
20:10 πŸ”— blahah zino: you work at a sci place?
20:11 πŸ”— zino blahah: I work at a university in Sweden.
20:11 πŸ”— luckcolor http://archiveteam.org/images/c/ce/Archive-all-the-things-thumb.jpg
20:11 πŸ”— luckcolor love this meme
20:11 πŸ”— luckcolor :P
20:11 πŸ”— blahah zino: cool! lund?
20:12 πŸ”— zino blahah: Nope, LinkοΏ½ping. National Supercumputer Centre.
20:12 πŸ”— blahah ooh
20:13 πŸ”— zino I did ship a bunch of hardware to Lund recently though, so I feel OK taking credit for anything good Lund does. :)
20:13 πŸ”— blahah haha
20:13 πŸ”— blahah lund has some interesting stuff going on
20:14 πŸ”— blahah I think it's very unlikely you'll all end up in prison btw, or even any of you, for what you do as part of archiveteam
20:15 πŸ”— zino blaha: They do. We host a lot of their scientists doing post processing from the Max projects. Looking forward to what they will do after Max IV goes online.
20:15 πŸ”— blahah copyright law is under the most scrutiny it has ever been - it can't last
20:16 πŸ”— blahah does anyone here get involved politically in pushing for (c) change?
20:16 πŸ”— blahah I think you all would make a great voice in the EU parliament for example
20:18 πŸ”— luckcolor blahah: you said you analize dna. what type of research you do? I'm curious :P
20:18 πŸ”— luckcolor if you can say of course
20:19 πŸ”— schbirid bukkakademia
20:19 πŸ”— blahah sure, I'm not anonymous
20:20 πŸ”— blahah I study photosynthesis, specifically how a naturally very efficient type of photosynthesis works at the genetic level, so we can make crops more efficient
20:20 πŸ”— luckcolor cool
20:20 πŸ”— blahah this is me: http://rik.smith-unna.com/
20:21 πŸ”— blahah I have mostly transitioned from studying plane genomes to getting very annoyed at how science works
20:21 πŸ”— blahah *plant
20:22 πŸ”— luckcolor you mean you are bored by your research?
20:22 πŸ”— blahah no, more frustrated by the difference by how easy it should be, vs how difficult it is
20:23 πŸ”— luckcolor ah understandable
20:23 πŸ”— blahah the difficulty almost entirely stems from vast companies trying to make a fat pile of cash
20:23 πŸ”— blahah the actual research is easy (once you've got your head into it) and very fun
20:23 πŸ”— blahah but working inside academic bureaucracy, publishing, navigating the politics, all that stuff is excruciating
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20:29 πŸ”— luckcolor well in don't have alot of experienc ein that sector but for sure it is
20:29 πŸ”— luckcolor *i
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20:31 πŸ”— joepie91 blahah: how academics works* I think?
20:31 πŸ”— joepie91 rather than science
20:31 πŸ”— joepie91 [22:16] <blahah> does anyone here get involved politically in pushing for (c) change?
20:31 πŸ”— joepie91 depends how you define 'politically'
20:31 πŸ”— joepie91 government etc., no
20:32 πŸ”— joepie91 very actively arguing against it, writing stuff, etc, yes
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20:34 πŸ”— blahah joepie91: +1 on academia rather than science
20:37 πŸ”— luckcolor blahah: well i'll be going now. thanks for the chat hope to se ya some time again on this irc. :P
20:38 πŸ”— blahah luckcolor: thanks to you too - I'm happy to have found this place and will be sticking around :)
20:40 πŸ”— luckcolor ok cya.
20:41 πŸ”— luckcolor anyway i raccomend you if you haven't used irc before to install on amachine which is always online some kind of 24/7 irc client
20:41 πŸ”— luckcolor like quassel
20:41 πŸ”— luckcolor so you can always receive messages
20:42 πŸ”— luckcolor reading the logs of a chat can become really tedious really quickly :P
20:43 πŸ”— luckcolor that's my irc pro-tip (i'm not a pro though :D)
20:45 πŸ”— blahah :) thanks - I used to live on irc as a teenager but that is depressingly long ago, the tools have moved on
20:45 πŸ”— blahah I'm using irccloud, but happy to take recommendations for good things
20:49 πŸ”— Atluxity I was going to say something about weechat as an irc client, but unless you are comfortable with linux and running a server somewhere, forget it
20:49 πŸ”— Atluxity sometimes I forget the rest of the world is not always as geeky as me
20:50 πŸ”— blahah no I'm fine with all that :)
20:50 πŸ”— luckcolor Well for quassel is the same as IRC cloud you just need a server to run it on
20:51 πŸ”— luckcolor And it's very easy to install and it has an official android client
20:51 πŸ”— blahah oh nice
20:52 πŸ”— blahah so both of those options run a daemon that stays in your channels for you, then sync messages with you when you connecy?
20:52 πŸ”— blahah *connect
20:53 πŸ”— luckcolor Yeah but the awesome thing about quassel is that you con figure basically everything using the client
20:53 πŸ”— luckcolor And you don't have any limit on connections
20:54 πŸ”— luckcolor Also you can con figure it to use SQL as datastore instead of the embedded SQLite db
20:55 πŸ”— luckcolor If you ever need to do some madness using the logs
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20:56 πŸ”— luckcolor But to generally installing it is just like
20:56 πŸ”— luckcolor On debian
20:56 πŸ”— luckcolor Apt install quassel-core
20:57 πŸ”— luckcolor And then you connect using the core-client
20:57 πŸ”— luckcolor And you are good to go
20:57 πŸ”— luckcolor I will really go offline now lol
20:58 πŸ”— luckcolor Cya
21:00 πŸ”— phillipsj blahah, I am the Secretary for the Canadian Pirate Party. We have not been as active as I would have liked that past 3 years or so.
21:01 πŸ”— * phillipsj just has "downloading the Internet" on their to-do list at the moment
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21:45 πŸ”— dashcloud have you looked at Backblaze B2? Unless I'm counting it wrong, it appears to be $5/month to store a TB ($0.005/GB/month * 1000 GB) https://www.backblaze.com/b2/cloud-storage-pricing.html redundancy is not in the same ballpark as Amazon, Google or Microsoft, which may matter to you
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22:19 πŸ”— JW_work any idea how to "Press Start" on this? https://archive.org/details/demo_badapple_flm_2012
22:25 πŸ”— arkiver !a https://twitter.com/NOS/status/733234910807220225
22:26 πŸ”— arkiver !a https://twitter.com/NOS/status/733171664486203393
22:26 πŸ”— arkiver oh oops
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22:26 πŸ”— bwn pressing 1 works for me..
22:28 πŸ”— bwn http://www.mess.org/mess/howto#console_emulation
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22:40 πŸ”— JW_work thanks, yes that works
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23:20 πŸ”— JW_work regarding storage of 5TB. Actually, I wonder about paper. There *are* a lot of printers out there, many with relatively relaxed cost provisions.
23:20 πŸ”— JW_work If it was divided up, printing out 5TB of papers might be quite feasible…
23:20 πŸ”— JW_work and if it was printed in an easily OCRable format…
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23:30 πŸ”— ranma do you guys rescan things every so often? (E.g. that github)
23:30 πŸ”— ranma I know IA does
23:31 πŸ”— JW_work we don't generally, no
23:31 πŸ”— ranma but does archive team?
23:31 πŸ”— ranma ah
23:31 πŸ”— JW_work it'd be nice to set up a general system for doing that, though
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23:50 πŸ”— dashcloud JW_work: here's just such a system for storing data on paper: http://www.ollydbg.de/Paperbak/index.html
23:53 πŸ”— JW_work since the data in question is generally already in a printable form, I'd just use that
23:54 πŸ”— JW_work but paperback is neat
23:57 πŸ”— murk dashcloud: unfortunately it's windows-only and looks pretty clunky.
23:58 πŸ”— JW_work murk: eh, you can probably run it in the browser via the emulatrity!
23:58 πŸ”— JW_work and it's just a proof of concept, really
23:58 πŸ”— murk JW_work: that's got to be a horrible comment on the state of software development.
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23:59 πŸ”— JW_work I prefer to think of it as a testment
23:59 πŸ”— dashcloud or just make your own version- there's lots of simple compression schemes out there, and you could just print that on the page, and then process it using an existing program probably
irclogger-viewer