#archiveteam-bs 2016-10-14,Fri

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01:38 🔗 turnkit hey @sketchcow - any chance you can get me into an alpha of the Next Gen Arnold Foundation funded search functionality for wayback machine? I know about https://wayback-beta.archive.org/ but it doesn't seem to search home page content (that search functionality was described in the archive.org blog) -- e.g. phrase searching
01:38 🔗 turnkit ref: https://blog.archive.org/2011/06/15/http-archive-joins-with-internet-archive/
01:40 🔗 SketchCow HEY SO HEARD FAMAS STOPPED BY
01:40 🔗 SketchCow THIS ONE THINKS THAT'S HILARIOUS
01:40 🔗 SketchCow Beta is the search you're looking for
01:40 🔗 turnkit okay. thanks. I'll leave feedback there.
01:42 🔗 DFJustin last I heard it only indexes the front pages of domains
01:42 🔗 turnkit that's what the blog said -- only the front / home page
01:43 🔗 turnkit but I want to search for a phrase like "mad dog" -- it doesn't seem to work
01:43 🔗 turnkit guess that's why it's beta. I went ahead and left a simple note.
01:43 🔗 SketchCow Well, all I can tell you is that it's a beta.
01:43 🔗 turnkit It's gonna be a great feature
01:43 🔗 SketchCow Hey, this beta lacks functionality
01:43 🔗 turnkit to be able to search the wayback machine
01:43 🔗 turnkit too bad only front page though
01:44 🔗 turnkit but even the front page search function -- it will open up a lot of otherwise "lost" pages
01:44 🔗 turnkit so it's really a great thing
01:49 🔗 godane i'm uploading 1997 nasa docs
01:49 🔗 godane only 2872 pdfs
01:49 🔗 godane about 9.3gb
01:49 🔗 godane also i'm at 922k items
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04:47 🔗 MrRadar Just saw this on HN: the c2 wiki is offline
04:47 🔗 MrRadar Lukcily someone stuffed it into ArchiveBot in July: http://archive.fart.website/archivebot/viewer/job/xdufx
04:48 🔗 MrRadar Huh, apparently the server had a disk crash: https://twitter.com/WardCunningham/status/785960076041302016
04:48 🔗 pikhq MrRadar: It was also in the Archive Team mass wiki grabs at some point.
04:56 🔗 * JesseW is somewhat concerned about better searching of Wayback data leading to increased demands for removal
04:56 🔗 Frogging I've had this thought too
04:59 🔗 JesseW I wish there were more user-friendly tools for making private copies of arbitrary web pages. There are lots of tools (wget being central among them), but none (that i know of yet) have the ease I'm hoping for.
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07:29 🔗 godane so i found this to be interesting
07:30 🔗 godane looks like Sports Illustrated as a vault section of there site
07:30 🔗 godane they go back to 1954
07:31 🔗 godane and also put issues up to 2016-09-26
07:31 🔗 godane very odd
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09:57 🔗 * arkiver is still not convinced wayback machine search will be a good thing for the web archive
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10:08 🔗 Shakespea Hi
10:09 🔗 Shakespea Anyone in your group archive old SDK?
10:09 🔗 Shakespea I was trying to find a version of the MS Platfrom SDk that still supported XP ( legacy App issue)
10:10 🔗 Shakespea Also - https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/windowsdesktop/en-US/e1147034-9b0b-4494-a5bc-6dfebb6b7eb1/download-and-install-microsoft-platform-sdk-febuary-2003-last-version-with-vc6-support?forum=windowssdk
10:10 🔗 Shakespea I wasn't sure if the links here were archived.
10:10 🔗 Shakespea (And given that this is the last version that supports anything really old (i.e VC6) , It was felt to be important.)
10:11 🔗 Shakespea Archive.org wayback doesn't necessarily have a full MSDN
10:11 🔗 Shakespea for earlier contents
10:13 🔗 Shakespea In any event I would strongly suggest a project ( I can't do it on the Wiki because I am currently blocked) to archive SDK, even if for various reasons it has to be a dark archive.
10:13 🔗 Shakespea arkiver: Good morning
10:14 🔗 arkiver hi
10:19 🔗 Shakespea Sorry for the monolouge
10:20 🔗 Shakespea I was also trying to track down an ISO for the most recent VS Express that still supported XP
10:20 🔗 Shakespea Naturally people should be using the most recent compilers but the concern from an archival perspective was ancient legacy systems built on legacy tools years ago
10:21 🔗 Shakespea This isn't as much of an issue on GNU/Linux project as these tend to keep old package releases arounf for longer
10:23 🔗 joepie91 Shakespea: wasn';t the latest Express version for XP the 2010 one?
10:23 🔗 joepie91 if so, https://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9709969
10:23 🔗 Shakespea Okay, and is that download archived for the future?
10:23 🔗 joepie91 no idea
10:24 🔗 joepie91 yeah, seems 2010 was latest for XP
10:24 🔗 joepie91 2013 requires 7
10:24 🔗 joepie91 (but is available at https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=44914 )
10:25 🔗 Shakespea And go.microsoft.com is NOT in Wayback
10:25 🔗 Shakespea (due to robots.txt)
10:25 🔗 Shakespea <Seethe> < fume> makes strange cursing sounds...
10:27 🔗 Shakespea joepie: It's available for now, but it's now getting on 6 years
10:28 🔗 joepie91 Shakespea: right, so go collect them and upload them to IA? :P
10:28 🔗 Shakespea joepie91: I will bear that in mind
10:28 🔗 Shakespea Your second link is archived already - https://web.archive.org/web/20161014102607/https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=44914
10:29 🔗 Shakespea because I just saved it
10:29 🔗 joepie91 the download may not necessarily be
10:29 🔗 joepie91 and these things are better stored as separate items on IA anyway
10:29 🔗 Shakespea That's a problem as I'm not sure how to get it saved to IA automatically
10:29 🔗 joepie91 Shakespea: create an account, hit "upload
10:29 🔗 joepie91 "*
10:29 🔗 Shakespea My local bandwidth is such that I can't download many ISO's
10:30 🔗 joepie91 right. have a server or something somewhere?
10:30 🔗 Shakespea I am just a normal net user, I don't have VPN or remote servers...
10:30 🔗 Shakespea Something else I'll have to look into
10:31 🔗 Shakespea I agree with you in principle :)
10:31 🔗 joepie91 Shakespea: fwiw, you can always just upload it to IA slowly
10:31 🔗 joepie91 which is better than not at all
10:31 🔗 joepie91 :)
10:31 🔗 Shakespea jeopie91: True... It would be nice if there was a way to get SDK's and downloads archived without needing to do the local downaload step.
10:32 🔗 Shakespea (Firefox doesn't exactly have a 'Save download to remote FTP...." option
10:32 🔗 Shakespea Hmm... Goes off to file a bug report...
10:33 🔗 joepie91 Shakespea: closest thing is archivebot but that'll only work for the wayback
10:33 🔗 joepie91 Shakespea: and what you're describing isn't really possible :P
10:33 🔗 Shakespea joepie91: Does archive team have an FTP server for donations?
10:33 🔗 joepie91 'donations' as in 'data to upload to IA'?
10:33 🔗 Shakespea As in upload to 'dark-archive'
10:34 🔗 joepie91 I don't really understand the question, then
10:34 🔗 joepie91 like, what are you trying to accomplish?
10:34 🔗 Shakespea What I am trying to ask for is a means to tell firefox to tell a remote server to send the file being downloaded to a third party server rather than to save it locally
10:35 🔗 Shakespea So that when Firefox starts a download , the third party server takes over and capture the download, rather than it being saved locally
10:35 🔗 joepie91 Shakespea: that isn't a technical possibility.
10:36 🔗 joepie91 as in, there is no way to do it with a standard FTP server, because it's just not a part of the FTP protocol
10:36 🔗 Shakespea What's the technical limitation?
10:36 🔗 joepie91 this requires explicit cooperation from the systems in question
10:36 🔗 joepie91 and that cooperation isn't there
10:36 🔗 joepie91 (and FXP only works with FTP and only due to a weird design decision in the FTP protocol)
10:37 🔗 joepie91 Shakespea: it's not a 'limitation', it just isn't a thing that FTP software is written to do
10:37 🔗 Shakespea The alternative would be to figure out if there's a way to inform the third party site to iniate an FTP transfer remotely.
10:37 🔗 Shakespea (albiet based on metadata captured from Firefox)
10:37 🔗 joepie91 Shakespea: there's nothing to 'capture', really.
10:37 🔗 joepie91 it's just a URL that results in a file
10:37 🔗 joepie91 that's it
10:37 🔗 joepie91 bunch of HTTP headers
10:37 🔗 joepie91 which is what WARC is for, and what archivebot saves
10:38 🔗 joepie91 but that's of no relevance when you upload something as a separate item on IA
10:38 🔗 Shakespea So technically, the WARC should include the ISO download?
10:38 🔗 joepie91 tl;dr there's archivebot that can archive things on your behalf, and that's about it
10:38 🔗 joepie91 but it doesn't create IA items
10:38 🔗 joepie91 it just adds it to the collective archivebot archives that go into the wayback machine
10:38 🔗 Shakespea I think we may be getting confused
10:39 🔗 Shakespea The issue is how to ensure something that could be downloaded gets archived, without having to save it locally...
10:39 🔗 Shakespea (even when the download is an HTTP/FTP transaction iniated by some sort of script)
10:40 🔗 joepie91 Shakespea: you can't just magically make that happen.
10:40 🔗 joepie91 Shakespea: there needs to be a system somewhere that is set up to do precisely this
10:40 🔗 joepie91 that system is archivebot and it only does it in a very specific way
10:40 🔗 joepie91 that's it
10:40 🔗 Shakespea Ah
10:40 🔗 Shakespea :(
10:40 🔗 Shakespea Bother
10:40 🔗 Shakespea So something get's lost because the tools don;t yet exist...
10:40 🔗 Shakespea Pity
10:40 🔗 * Shakespea out
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10:42 🔗 Shakespea Okay the ISO is in wayback
10:42 🔗 Shakespea :)
10:43 🔗 Shakespea But it's slightly convoluted how to access it :)
10:43 🔗 Shakespea Thanks for your help...
10:43 🔗 Shakespea Also going to file some bugzilla for firefox...
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10:48 🔗 joepie91 Shakespea: right, so I was going to mention: things aren't getting lost "
10:48 🔗 joepie91 gah
10:48 🔗 joepie91 Shakespea: right, so I was going to mention: things aren't getting lost "because tools don't exist" *
10:48 🔗 Shakespea Okay, that was just me possibly over-reacting
10:48 🔗 joepie91 it's just that while archivebot is useful for quickly saving a page or site, it doesn't really make sense to invest time into building such a system for miscellaneous IA uploads
10:48 🔗 joepie91 because it would only fit a very narrow set of usecases
10:48 🔗 joepie91 for a very narrow set of people
10:49 🔗 joepie91 while being very complex to build and maintain
10:49 🔗 joepie91 it's not worth the time, it's easier to just tell somebody to pay $3/month for a VPS and do their archiving from there
10:49 🔗 Shakespea Can wget be configured to do a third party mount?
10:49 🔗 Shakespea Assuming you have VPN setup...?
10:49 🔗 joepie91 what do you mean? I don't think "third party mount" is an existing term
10:50 🔗 Shakespea Server X has a file... Server Y is a third party FTP server. Server Z is me...
10:50 🔗 joepie91 Shakespea: I think you need to spend a bit of time learning about the various protocols and how networks work
10:50 🔗 Shakespea Can wget be invoked such that it transfers from Server X to Server X even though the wget command is invoked on Server Z?
10:50 🔗 joepie91 because that suggestion doesn't really make sense if you understand the protocols involved
10:51 🔗 joepie91 and just wildly suggesting impossible things is going to drain a lot of time and attention from people who can otherwise be busy doing productive things
10:51 🔗 Shakespea I will shut up then
10:51 🔗 joepie91 Shakespea: I'm not suggesting that you shut up, I'm suggesting that you learn ;)
10:51 🔗 joepie91 documentation of HTTP and network stacks is fairly widely available
10:52 🔗 joepie91 even just a high-level understanding of what it's for and how it works, will help answer your question
10:52 🔗 Shakespea joepie91: Okay then
10:52 🔗 joepie91 you don't need to know the nitty gritty details
10:52 🔗 Shakespea Seems I have some reading to do
10:52 🔗 Shakespea And as I've got an adequate answer...
10:52 🔗 * Shakespea away
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16:24 🔗 Frogging https://search.slashdot.org/story/16/10/14/1318244/
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19:40 🔗 Shakespea Good evening
19:40 🔗 Shakespea Anyone know of UK places that will do mass imaging - https://archive.org/post/1064324/old-pc-plus-cds-and-bbc-micro ?
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23:49 🔗 powerKitt Hey! I was wondering if there was a script that could go through a Tumblr tag ( https://www.tumblr.com/tagged/sbarg for example) and output the url of every user that posted in it to a TXT file. I'm an ARG archiver, and it'd really be useful if I could automate the process of finding all the old blogs of players
23:50 🔗 xmc yes we heard you in other channel
23:50 🔗 xmc powerKitt: i am not aware of such a script
23:51 🔗 powerKitt Sorry, I didn't see any responses...
23:58 🔗 xmc there weren't any but that's because nobody who is awake and looking at irc had a positive answer

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