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01:30
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JesseW |
HCross: ack, will look |
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01:32
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JesseW |
ok, should be resolved now |
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14:00
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Shakespea |
Hi Is this site archived? - Live for 20 years bbut has a VAST swathe of old support material - http://www.mdgx.com/ :) |
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14:06
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14:11
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14:18
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joepie91 |
I am starting to hate ISO more by the day |
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14:19
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joepie91 |
(the organization) |
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14:19
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Shakespea |
joepie91: Standards too pricy for new entrants? |
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14:20
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Shakespea |
(I hear this about so called "British Standards" as well) |
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14:23
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joepie91 |
Shakespea: it's not about pricy, it's about the fact that they aren't openly available *at all* |
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14:23
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dashcloud |
joepie91: if you don't need the ratified version, there's almost always a draft floating around for free. Otherwise, they do suck. If you're really lucky, another standards group has ratified that standard and made it available |
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14:23
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joepie91 |
Shakespea: so there's ISO 9660, which is freely available as ECMA-119 |
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14:23
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joepie91 |
but the 2013 amendment is *not* |
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14:23
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joepie91 |
and costs $25 |
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14:24
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joepie91 |
for a few changed sentences |
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14:24
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joepie91 |
fucking ridiculous. |
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14:24
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joepie91 |
dashcloud: nope |
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14:24
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joepie91 |
already looked |
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14:24
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Shakespea |
joepie91: Standards which are a legal requirment should be open for inspection :) |
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14:24
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joepie91 |
ISO 9660:1988/Amd.1:2013 |
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14:24
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joepie91 |
Shakespea: not a legal requirement, but good luck building anything to do with CD-ROMs without having those standards handy |
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14:24
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joepie91 |
any standard should be openly available full stop |
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14:25
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Shakespea |
joepie91: Standards organisation do still have to cover costs |
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14:25
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Shakespea |
But in principle I agree that closed standards aren't standards but guidelines |
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14:25
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joepie91 |
Shakespea: when somebody becomes a hitman, your first response isn't "well he has to put bread on the table" either |
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14:25
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dashcloud |
Shakespea: you may be interested in the work Carl Malamud and public.resource.org are doing along those lines |
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14:25
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joepie91 |
it's "being a hitman is unacceptable!" |
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14:25
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joepie91 |
no different here |
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14:25
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joepie91 |
yes, they have costs |
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14:25
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joepie91 |
but 1) that is not my problem |
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14:25
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joepie91 |
and 2) it does not excuse behaviour that is harmful to society |
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14:25
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Shakespea |
dashcloud: I'm aware of that as well |
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14:26
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joepie91 |
let them find a way to cover costs that does NOT lock up important knowledge from the public |
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14:26
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Shakespea |
I found them when trying to configure the correct colors of railway signs for a train-sim |
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14:26
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Shakespea |
in a drawing program :) |
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14:26
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Shakespea |
You would think you would be able to find out what colour an important industrial sign should be? Right? |
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14:27
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Shakespea |
For one sign it would have cost me about 200 GBP for one color reference XD |
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14:27
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dashcloud |
joepie91: if you'd really like that standard, I'm happy to send you $25 to cover the cost there (although I suspect cost isn't really why you haven't gotten a copy of it already) |
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14:27
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Shakespea |
What was even more upseting was that the standard mentioned was obselete annyway |
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14:28
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joepie91 |
dashcloud: in this case it sort of is (I'm not paying $25 for a diff! I have more important shit to put my money towards), but my complaint regarding its closedness exists regardless of the cost :) |
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14:29
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Shakespea |
joepie91: Standards should be "open" for the public to inspect. |
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14:29
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Shakespea |
Open source hasn't killed software consultancy |
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14:29
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Shakespea |
Open Data hasn't caused the collapse of government depts through transparency |
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14:30
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Shakespea |
And if I keep talking , I'll hit the flood limit here :( |
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14:31
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Shakespea |
(Also when you have to go to a Chinese Website to find a standard, your locla public library doesn't because they can't afford a subscription, something is very very wrong) |
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14:31
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14:32
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joepie91 |
dashcloud: moment, I'm going to check something |
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14:36
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joepie91 |
dashcloud: I've sorta kinda found a copy |
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14:36
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joepie91 |
http://pismotec.com/cfs/iso9660-1999.html |
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14:36
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joepie91 |
this claims to be the 1999 edition |
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14:36
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joepie91 |
but it contains the changes listed in a preview version of the 2013 amendment |
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14:36
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joepie91 |
(as in, all the changes I could see in that preview are present in the "1999" version) |
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14:39
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dashcloud |
yay! |
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14:47
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Aoede |
Has there been any effort to archive video game mods? |
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14:47
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Aoede |
Sites like nexusmods.com |
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14:50
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14:51
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arkiver |
Aoede: any sites like that one going down? |
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14:52
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14:52
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Aoede |
arkiver: Not as far as I know, but a lot of the content probably isn't mirrored anywhere |
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14:55
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14:55
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arkiver |
Aoede: it might be worth it to save that content |
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15:02
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Aoede |
Yeah |
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15:06
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15:13
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joepie91 |
man |
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15:14
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joepie91 |
this CD-ROM spec is a great example of how NOT to do technical writing |
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15:14
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joepie91 |
unbelievable |
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15:23
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Shakespea |
Aoede: Doomworld was I think on DeathWatch |
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15:24
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Shakespea |
So some sites might be being archived, not sure about others more generallly.. |
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15:24
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Shakespea |
(and of course there are mods in systems like STEAM, which I'm not sure are easily archived as such) |
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15:25
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Shakespea |
Aoede: https://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-general/73690-serious-time-doomworlds-host-is-shutting-down/ |
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15:25
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Shakespea |
Hmm |
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15:26
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Shakespea |
And -http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Atomicgamer |
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15:26
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Aoede |
Hmm |
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15:27
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Shakespea |
So not DeathWatch but certainly worth keeping the vitals updated :) |
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15:32
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Aoede |
Mostly I'm just worried they will shutdown without notice |
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15:32
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Aoede |
Other than that you guys probably get it <3 |
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15:33
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Shakespea |
Aoede: I don't like being called a guy |
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15:33
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Shakespea |
I still have to earn that title :) |
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15:33
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Aoede |
Sorry :p |
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15:33
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Shakespea |
No worries |
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15:38
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godane |
so i'm at 930k items now |
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16:12
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joepie91 |
"The Volume Partition Descriptor can be used to logically divide the volume into smaller volume partitions, although ISO 9660 does not specify how to do this, only that it can be done." |
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16:12
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joepie91 |
~specs~ |
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16:13
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VADemon |
and you're supposed to pay for this :) |
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16:29
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Shakespea |
VADemon: And presuambly the other standard that tell you how you can partition |
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16:29
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Shakespea |
XD |
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17:08
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joepie91 |
VADemon: the technical writing in the entire spec is far sub-par |
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17:09
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joepie91 |
VADemon: |
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17:09
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joepie91 |
"The first Logical Block of each File Unit shall have a Logical Block Number which is the lowest Logical Block Number in the Logical Sector that contains that Logical Block." |
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17:09
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joepie91 |
"An Interleave Gap shall comprise the set of Logical Blocks that are within an Extent and the Logical Block Numbers of which lie between the last Logical Block Number of a File Unit and the first Logical Block Number of the next File Unit, if any, in the sequence." |
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17:32
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17:46
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18:13
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19:13
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19:14
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19:17
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VADemon |
only lawyers can decrypt these kinds of texts, imho |
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19:26
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19:28
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19:35
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19:37
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19:40
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19:44
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yipdw |
Aoede: yes, there are plenty of people making copies of those things |
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19:44
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yipdw |
case in point |
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19:44
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yipdw |
http://archive.fart.website/archivebot/viewer/job/dpoch |
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19:44
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yipdw |
hell http://archive.fart.website/archivebot/viewer/domain/www.nexusmods.com |
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19:46
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yipdw |
when researchers living on the Moon in the 27th century try to figure out why Earth is a blasted hellscape, they will have a hard time figuring out why, but at least they'll be able to install a slick UI into Skyrim |
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19:54
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Frogging |
hah |
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20:10
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20:55
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SketchCow |
They'll know why |
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20:57
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22:11
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23:00
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