| Time |
Nickname |
Message |
|
00:22
🔗
|
|
xcalibur has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
00:26
🔗
|
godane |
i'm now maybe on my 23rd tape |
|
00:52
🔗
|
|
Stilett0- is now known as Stiletto |
|
01:23
🔗
|
|
RichardG_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
|
01:23
🔗
|
|
midas has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
01:23
🔗
|
|
midas_ is now known as midas |
|
01:23
🔗
|
|
RichardG has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
01:23
🔗
|
|
atomicthu has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
01:26
🔗
|
|
atomicthu has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
01:26
🔗
|
|
xcalibur has quit IRC (xcalibur) |
|
01:26
🔗
|
|
midas2 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
01:35
🔗
|
godane |
i'm on my 24th tape now |
|
01:35
🔗
|
|
schbirid2 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
01:36
🔗
|
godane |
i'm capturing a 1989 30 minute screensaver |
|
01:37
🔗
|
godane |
its called Illumination and its a visual music video |
|
01:39
🔗
|
|
schbirid has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
02:01
🔗
|
|
Stiletto has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) |
|
02:06
🔗
|
|
dashcloud has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
02:07
🔗
|
|
dashcloud has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
02:23
🔗
|
|
pizzaiolo has quit IRC (Quit: pizzaiolo) |
|
02:24
🔗
|
|
Atros has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) |
|
02:36
🔗
|
|
Stilett0- has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
02:57
🔗
|
|
atrocity has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
03:22
🔗
|
|
Atros has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
03:24
🔗
|
|
atrocity has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
03:50
🔗
|
godane |
another tape i have is also upload here: https://diva.sfsu.edu/collections/sfbatv/bundles/189054 |
|
03:51
🔗
|
godane |
my tape is longer then that and is the commercial tape |
|
04:07
🔗
|
|
jspiros has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 492 seconds) |
|
04:08
🔗
|
|
jspiros has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
04:24
🔗
|
|
Sk1d has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 194 seconds) |
|
04:30
🔗
|
|
Sk1d has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
05:06
🔗
|
godane |
so found a odd tape |
|
05:07
🔗
|
godane |
i thought i may have hawaii beneath the surface but its music guys audition tapes or something |
|
05:20
🔗
|
|
tuluu has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
07:11
🔗
|
|
arkhive has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
08:05
🔗
|
godane |
so i think nasa at work is really a moonwalk one movie but in the classroom series |
|
08:30
🔗
|
|
kepler45 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
08:54
🔗
|
|
kepler45 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
09:58
🔗
|
|
Jonison has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
10:19
🔗
|
|
pizzaiolo has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
11:18
🔗
|
|
brayden_ has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
11:18
🔗
|
|
brayden has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
|
11:18
🔗
|
|
swebb sets mode: +o brayden_ |
|
11:18
🔗
|
|
brayden_ is now known as brayden |
|
11:25
🔗
|
|
godane has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
12:12
🔗
|
|
ajshell1 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) |
|
12:16
🔗
|
|
rocode has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
12:33
🔗
|
|
ajshell1 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
12:46
🔗
|
|
rocode has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
13:56
🔗
|
|
BlueMaxim has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
|
13:56
🔗
|
|
xcalibur has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
13:56
🔗
|
|
xcalibur has left |
|
14:58
🔗
|
|
Asparagir has quit IRC (Asparagir) |
|
15:00
🔗
|
|
Mateon1 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
15:00
🔗
|
|
Mateon1 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
15:22
🔗
|
|
Jonison has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
|
15:46
🔗
|
jspiros |
wah, AIM is being shut down at the end of the year |
|
15:56
🔗
|
joepie91 |
hey look: https://twitter.com/ABenMcCloskey/status/916314913630445569 |
|
15:56
🔗
|
joepie91 |
somebody got arrested for using a VPN that "doesn't log" |
|
15:56
🔗
|
joepie91 |
or well, not 'for' exactly, but rather that's how they found him... |
|
16:15
🔗
|
|
dd0a13f37 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
16:16
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
joepie91: So did it keep logs? |
|
16:22
🔗
|
|
pizzaiolo has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
16:23
🔗
|
|
pizzaiolo has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
17:18
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
Fuck, I just realized something |
|
17:19
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
oops wrong channel |
|
17:49
🔗
|
joepie91 |
dd0a13f37: yep! :) |
|
17:49
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
Where is the evidence of this? |
|
17:50
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
It looks incredibly vague to me, is there more context in the pdf? |
|
17:58
🔗
|
joepie91 |
dd0a13f37: it's right there in the screenshot of the PDF |
|
17:59
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
No, "determine that their service was accessed" is way too vague |
|
18:00
🔗
|
joepie91 |
dd0a13f37: and how would they determine that without logs, exactly? |
|
18:01
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
They could keep logs on the web frontend (e.g. billing) without logging it on the VPN service |
|
18:01
🔗
|
joepie91 |
which is better how exactly? |
|
18:01
🔗
|
joepie91 |
this is arguing on irrelevant technicalities |
|
18:02
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
Completely different things |
|
18:02
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
Keeping UID <-> real IP mappings, I don't care about |
|
18:02
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
UID <-> VPN IP is the bad logging |
|
18:03
🔗
|
joepie91 |
dd0a13f37: I'm getting the distinct impression that you don't *want* to understand the point here, so that you can continue pretending that VPNs that claim "no logs" are secure. |
|
18:03
🔗
|
joepie91 |
dd0a13f37: read the actual damn screenshot, and the PDF that's associated with it. |
|
18:03
🔗
|
joepie91 |
how do they get from " |
|
18:04
🔗
|
joepie91 |
how do they get from "oh this guy is using a VPN" to "oh this is his own IP" without a real IP <--- .... ---> VPN IP mappinmg? |
|
18:04
🔗
|
joepie91 |
they don't, therefore there is such a mapping |
|
18:04
🔗
|
joepie91 |
how do you obtain such a mapping? |
|
18:04
🔗
|
joepie91 |
through logs |
|
18:04
🔗
|
joepie91 |
this is not rocket science |
|
18:04
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
I'm reading the pdf right now, yes, but judging from the screenshot it could just have been using VPN IP for personal gmail |
|
18:04
🔗
|
joepie91 |
.... |
|
18:05
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
Yes, the screenshot doesn't make it clear |
|
18:06
🔗
|
joepie91 |
okay, I give up |
|
18:06
🔗
|
Frogging |
joepie91: I'm "not authorized to view these tweets" apparently |
|
18:06
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
Look at page 18, will you? |
|
18:07
🔗
|
Frogging |
oh now it's working |
|
18:07
🔗
|
Frogging |
that was odd |
|
18:07
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
Lin criticized the tweet, saying "There is no such thing as a VPN that doesn't keep logs. If they can limit your connections or track bandwidth usage, they keeps logs." |
|
18:10
🔗
|
Frogging |
dd0a13f37: the excerpt doesn't say they got his UID, it says they were able to determine that it was the same UID that accessed his personal email |
|
18:11
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
Ah yes I see, I got to it now |
|
18:11
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
It still doesn't make sense though |
|
18:12
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
Look at p24-25, it they'd have logs that section wouldn't be there |
|
18:13
🔗
|
Frogging |
which section number ml |
|
18:13
🔗
|
Frogging |
-ml |
|
18:14
🔗
|
Frogging |
It really does sound like they keep logs, at least enough logs to link together different actions by the same customer |
|
18:15
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
It does, but it's still unclear |
|
18:15
🔗
|
Frogging |
whatever opsec they claim to be doing in order to not have records, they are not in fact doing since they have records |
|
18:15
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
Section 45-55 |
|
18:15
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
45-46* |
|
18:16
🔗
|
Frogging |
okay that's on page 20 |
|
18:16
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
But that could be the customer records since they already had his identity at that point |
|
18:16
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
page 24 pdf 23 paper |
|
18:17
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
"Use of Overlapping Service Providers" - if they kept logs they'd have more definitive evidence. |
|
18:18
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
His opsec was quite shit, so it really seems like another case of "user hiding behind tor unmasked" |
|
18:20
🔗
|
Frogging |
regardless, it clearly says that PureVPN records were used in the evidence. In section 52 which was screencapped in the tweet |
|
18:21
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
Yes, but not which ones. Keeping it from the billing records is fine, that's not malicious nor very dangerous. |
|
18:21
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
We can safely rule out real IP <-> VPN IP, so either that or they're deliberately being misleading for some reason |
|
18:21
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
[the police] |
|
18:23
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
"Our servers automatically record the time at which you connect to any of our servers. From here on forward, we do not keep any records of anything that could associate any specific activity to a specific user." |
|
18:23
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
https://www.purevpn.com/privacy-policy.php |
|
18:25
🔗
|
Frogging |
"PureVPN was able to determine that their service was accessed by the same customer from two originating IP addresses" and they go on to specify what addresses those were |
|
18:25
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
Yes, this is congruent with their privacy policy. |
|
18:25
🔗
|
Frogging |
so they keep records of what IP addresses their server was accessed from and can link them with specific customers |
|
18:26
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
Yes, that's true. That doesn't mean they log the outbound IPs used, which is the sensitive information |
|
18:26
🔗
|
Frogging |
I expect a company that builds their marketing on "we don't keep logs" to not keep logs of my IP address |
|
18:26
🔗
|
Frogging |
on either side of the VPN |
|
18:27
🔗
|
Frogging |
it's misleading at best |
|
18:27
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
They do seem shady, but there's nothing in there that goes against their privacy policy. Good VPNs don't have this problem, that's true. |
|
18:28
🔗
|
Frogging |
it may not technically violate their privacy policy but the claims of not keeping records are still misleading |
|
18:28
🔗
|
Frogging |
which if anything is at least a lesson to read the fine print |
|
18:29
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
Sure. But if his opsec wouldn't have been bad otherwise, the VPN alone wouldn't have exposed him. |
|
18:29
🔗
|
Frogging |
not that you can necessarily trust the privacy policy anyway |
|
18:30
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
They don't seem to have a proper one actually |
|
18:30
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
(a legal one) |
|
18:35
🔗
|
dd0a13f37 |
Compare this to https://www.mullvad.net/blog/2017/1/13/clarifying-our-no-logging-policy/ |
|
18:42
🔗
|
|
dd0a13f37 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds) |
|
18:58
🔗
|
|
ajshell1 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) |
|
19:05
🔗
|
|
godane has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
19:06
🔗
|
|
godane has quit IRC (Client Quit) |
|
19:06
🔗
|
|
godane has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
19:35
🔗
|
godane |
so there is tape called 'looking for trouble' |
|
19:35
🔗
|
godane |
it is a short film with no audio |
|
19:55
🔗
|
|
Pixi has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
20:14
🔗
|
|
Asparagir has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
20:29
🔗
|
|
Asparagir has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 600 seconds) |
|
20:40
🔗
|
|
ajshell1 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
20:52
🔗
|
odemg |
and? |
|
20:53
🔗
|
godane |
i'm doing The Who 1981-03-28 tape |
|
20:54
🔗
|
godane |
it was when there in germany |
|
20:57
🔗
|
|
Asparagir has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
20:57
🔗
|
|
svchfoo1 sets mode: +o Asparagir |
|
21:02
🔗
|
|
Asparagir has quit IRC (Asparagir) |
|
21:04
🔗
|
|
Asparagir has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
21:04
🔗
|
|
svchfoo1 sets mode: +o Asparagir |
|
21:05
🔗
|
godane |
so you may get some more germany news at the end of that concert tape |
|
21:07
🔗
|
odemg |
sound :D |
|
21:12
🔗
|
|
K4k_ has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
21:12
🔗
|
|
K4k_ has quit IRC (Client Quit) |
|
21:17
🔗
|
|
K4k_ has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
21:17
🔗
|
|
K4k_ has quit IRC (Client Quit) |
|
21:19
🔗
|
godane |
the concert tape has sound |
|
21:20
🔗
|
godane |
it was just the 'Looking for Trouble' tape that had no sound |
|
21:25
🔗
|
Stilett0- |
seeing the AIM coverage reminded me |
|
21:25
🔗
|
|
Stilett0- is now known as Stiletto |
|
21:25
🔗
|
Stiletto |
I used to use Prodigy rather than Compuserve or AOL. One thing they came up with towards the end was a "offline bulletin board browser" which archived messages to your HDD. |
|
21:26
🔗
|
Stiletto |
it's very unlikely people still have the files they archived with this. But I just found a few. |
|
21:27
🔗
|
Stiletto |
Of course, I wasn't the completionist I am now, and mostly just archived messages and boards that interested me |
|
21:28
🔗
|
Stiletto |
who knows, maybe someone could set up a message to appeal to anyone who still had these archives and see if anyone showed up with them |
|
21:29
🔗
|
Stiletto |
similarly to Google's appeal for published USENET archive disks back in the day |
|
21:29
🔗
|
Stiletto |
I doubt AOL or Compuserve made similar utilities but you never know |
|
21:29
🔗
|
Stiletto |
I don't really know what research has been done in this space so far |
|
21:32
🔗
|
Stiletto |
anyhow, I believe the tool was called "Bulletin Board Manager" and anyone with it still intact should have a cache of messages on their hard drive |
|
21:34
🔗
|
Stiletto |
it's a shame there aren't more archives of those days |
|
21:37
🔗
|
Stiletto |
or maybe it was called "Bulletin Board Note Manager" |
|
21:51
🔗
|
|
K4k has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.6) |
|
21:51
🔗
|
|
K4k has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
22:01
🔗
|
|
K4k has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.7.1) |
|
22:02
🔗
|
|
K4k has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
22:05
🔗
|
|
K4k has quit IRC (Client Quit) |
|
22:11
🔗
|
dashcloud |
Stiletto: Someone worked on a tool to extract stuff from offline Prodigy folders- I think I heard about it from Benj Edwards |
|
22:24
🔗
|
JAA |
Anyone interested in archiving blogs hosted at wordpress.com? I believe I just found a method for discovering all or at least very many of those (including ones hosted on their own domain). |
|
22:26
🔗
|
|
Boppen has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 194 seconds) |
|
22:41
🔗
|
|
Boppen has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
23:57
🔗
|
|
BlueMaxim has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
23:58
🔗
|
Stiletto |
dashcloud - from Benj? great, thanks |
|
23:58
🔗
|
godane |
so i had to german attack warsaw tapes |
|
23:58
🔗
|
Stiletto |
I probably still have the Prodigy Bulletin Board Note Manager utility extracted to a folder, need to dig on an old HDD to see |
|
23:59
🔗
|
Stiletto |
thanks for letting me know dashcloud |
|
23:59
🔗
|
godane |
one without tape code and one with tape code in video |