| Time |
Nickname |
Message |
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00:05
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00:07
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00:29
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JAA |
WTF, lxml? https://github.com/lxml/lxml/blob/68cf93c4827ea74e46d2aa6809011f96ed9c689a/src/lxml/etree.pyx#L93-L114 |
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00:31
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JAA |
Inherits from MutableMapping, makes it immutable, creates a singleton, deletes the references, then returns that singleton for the 'attrib' attribute of tags which can't have attributes. There has to be a better way than this. :-| |
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00:38
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JAA |
Oh, and even though it's immutable, it's not hashable. Great idea. |
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00:46
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ivan |
what does the existence of cython say about python? |
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00:49
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Flashfire |
Does ftp.pgpi.com respond for anybody? Just checking if it’s just ke |
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00:49
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Flashfire |
Me |
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00:50
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ivan |
yes |
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00:50
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JAA |
ivan: That people use the wrong tool for the job? |
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00:50
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ivan |
well, http://ftp.pgpi.com/ does |
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00:50
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Flashfire |
Not ftp://ftp.pgpi.com though? |
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00:51
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Flashfire |
And the http is just a parked domain |
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00:51
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JAA |
Python is awesome in many ways. Performance is not one of them, and Cython is a workaround for that (though not a proper solution). |
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00:52
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JAA |
Flashfire: Well, if the domain is parked, then obviously the server isn't there anymore. |
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00:52
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ivan |
Flashfire: right |
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00:52
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ivan |
JAA has a good point :-) |
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00:52
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ivan |
maybe historical DNS can find an old IP |
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00:53
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JAA |
Which reminds me that DNSHistory is still not archived. :-| |
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00:53
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JAA |
... and was supposed to shut down over 2 years ago. |
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00:53
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Flashfire |
Dnshistory is dead. Only the homepage exists |
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00:54
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JAA |
Yeah. The data is probably still there, but I guess something on the server died. |
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00:54
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Flashfire |
5xx errors across the board for the rest |
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00:54
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anarcat |
ivan: it says it was first implemented in python |
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00:54
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anarcat |
pypy is actually faster than cpython on a bunch of stuff |
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00:55
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00:57
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Flashfire |
Does anyone get a response on ftp://compaq.com/ |
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00:58
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Flashfire |
Or ftp://ftp.fcc.gov |
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00:58
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00:59
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Flashfire |
Not sure if cause I’m on mobile or they are down |
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01:03
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01:17
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Flashfire |
Someone also check if ftp://ftp.comecloserto.me/ is responding? |
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01:18
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01:21
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01:21
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01:31
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Flashfire |
I decided to make a few edits |
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01:32
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dxrt |
👍 |
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01:36
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Flashfire |
Feel free to check the ones I have listed no response for in the active FTP list in case it’s just because I’m on mobile right now |
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01:39
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dxrt |
compaq not working, fcc working, comecloesrto.me not working Flashfire |
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01:42
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godane |
Flashfire: we at least have a archive of it from 4 years ago : https://archive.org/details/ftp.compaq.com |
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01:43
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Flashfire |
Will add that to the details |
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01:48
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Flashfire |
Anyone get any response from ftp://smc.ssk.ac.th/ |
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01:49
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dxrt |
No. |
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01:50
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Flashfire |
That one appears to have been an old education FTP from what I can find with a brief search |
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01:50
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Flashfire |
ftp://ftp.comecloserto.me/ Appears to have received a hug of death from reddit a year or so ago |
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02:55
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02:56
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Flashfire |
If anyone wants to jumpstart the FTP project please do |
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02:56
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08:52
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Lord_Nigh |
that license mess with the kryoflux... i'm surprised more people didn't know about that. does anyone actually READ the license.txt file, other than lawyers? |
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08:53
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09:09
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eientei95 |
> or the Kryoflux is intended to be used in any [...] preservation/museum capacity. |
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09:09
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eientei95 |
Lord_Nigh: What the actual fuck |
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09:10
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|
Lord_Nigh |
here's the 2012 license: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9g78lpn8oquf34b/Kryoflux%20LICENCE%20from%20Mar%207%202012.txt?dl=0 |
|
09:10
🔗
|
Lord_Nigh |
see jason scott's twitter from about 2 weeks ago as well |
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09:11
🔗
|
Lord_Nigh |
the newer license apparently is 'slightly improved' but still unusuable for preservation/museum use |
|
09:11
🔗
|
Lord_Nigh |
the old license there i believe disallows the user from sharing any images they produce |
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09:11
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Lord_Nigh |
that clause may have been removed in the new license, I'm not sure |
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09:12
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09:13
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Lord_Nigh |
note that SPS does have a commercial licensing program for the kryoflux, but it has the same anti-compete clause in it, and i've heard of at least one, probably two museums who 'drank the kool aid' and are now forbidden from imaging their disks using any other hardware or software than SPS's |
|
09:13
🔗
|
Lord_Nigh |
also their commercial licensing cost is astronomically expensive (it was well over $2500 10 years ago, it is likely significantly more expensive now) |
|
09:13
🔗
|
Lord_Nigh |
and it has or had a yearly licensing fee too |
|
09:14
🔗
|
Lord_Nigh |
the SuperCardPro device is very similar in design to the kryoflux and has none of the myriad legal issues it does |
|
09:15
🔗
|
Lord_Nigh |
although the software could use some more work... the softare seems to be the weakest link with disk imaging products, and is often but not always closed source |
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09:16
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09:16
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eientei95 |
- The SPS philosophy dictates that the technology associated with allowing floppy disk based software to be contained in a preservable form should be provided to "the community" for free (free as in "free beer") to the extent possible. |
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09:16
🔗
|
eientei95 |
+ The SPS philosophy dictates that the technology associated with capturing floppy disk based software should be provided to "the community" for free (free as in "free beer") to the greatest extent possible in order to facilitate digital preservation efforts. |
|
09:18
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|
Lord_Nigh |
examples of open source imaging software are keirf's Disk-Utilities (https://github.com/keirf/Disk-Utilities), discimagecrator and discimagechef (intended for imaging CDs, the latter is written by claunia and better supported and more feature complete), and karsten scheibler's cwtool for driving the catweasel series of hardware (http://unusedino.de/cw/cwtool.html ) |
|
09:19
🔗
|
Lord_Nigh |
and also philpem's magpie for the discferret, although this never reached a really user-friendly state, unfortunately |
|
09:19
🔗
|
Lord_Nigh |
there's also some NASTY stuff SPS did to their competitors which may have led to philpem more or less abandoning the diskferret project |
|
09:20
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|
eientei95 |
DiscImageCreator and DiscImageChef are both "tainted", however, by being associated with VGPC |
|
09:21
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|
Lord_Nigh |
which vgpc? |
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09:21
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|
Lord_Nigh |
oh, i think i see which one |
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09:22
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|
Lord_Nigh |
There must be something i'm missing about how that 'taints' things? |
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09:23
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|
Lord_Nigh |
unless VGPC is tainted by kryoflux and that taint 'spreads' to other projects? |
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09:24
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eientei95 |
I don't see anywhere in the license which excludes preservation/museums |
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09:25
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Lord_Nigh |
the old license, it is: |
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09:25
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09:25
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eientei95 |
Lord_Nigh: In my mind, when a "collective" decides to label one contributor as a paedophile and then basically drive them to suicide, I see anything they promote as "tainted" |
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09:25
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Lord_Nigh |
I'm unaware of this incident. |
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09:26
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Lord_Nigh |
or was this the mudlord thing from like 2 years ago? |
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09:26
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eientei95 |
No, this was from just earlier this year |
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09:26
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09:26
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Lord_Nigh |
where he harassed someone and they killed themselves? |
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09:26
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eientei95 |
Month or two ago |
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09:26
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Lord_Nigh |
i think this is a different incident |
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09:26
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eientei95 |
It was dizzzy who was responsible |
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09:28
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eientei95 |
I mean, they also listen to how MAME is dead from F1ReB4LL |
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09:28
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Lord_Nigh |
so they have a troll (f1reb4ll) who shits on the MAME project? |
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09:28
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Lord_Nigh |
claunia at least is MAME friendly |
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09:28
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eientei95 |
Yup |
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09:29
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Lord_Nigh |
i don't honestly give much of a crap about the others |
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09:29
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eientei95 |
And he does it in the arcade/mame channel too |
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09:29
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09:29
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09:29
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eientei95 |
https://pastebin.com/raw/P0jhsJkA |
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09:32
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09:33
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Lord_Nigh |
eientei95: hmm. that's not trolling at all |
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09:33
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Lord_Nigh |
that's F1ReB4LL being legitamately frustrated with some devs stance on CD emulation and accuracy of cd rips in MAME |
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09:33
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Lord_Nigh |
and he's absolutely right |
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09:34
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09:34
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Lord_Nigh |
R. Belmont is actively hurting the project by putting the brakes on changing the CD format |
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09:35
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Lord_Nigh |
I was hoping that claunia's discimagechef format MIGHT end up replacing the existing format in a new chdman update, but that might be a while off |
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09:35
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|
Lord_Nigh |
and yes the drive emulation would need some fixing to work with the more advanced features of discimagechef but I think it would largely work |
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09:36
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Lord_Nigh |
R. Belmont is annoyed because he wasnts a 'perfect' format "like the Applesauce" to capture exact raw pits/lands on a CD |
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09:36
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Lord_Nigh |
I don't think such a thing is practical |
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09:36
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Lord_Nigh |
for laserdiscs yes, since most laserdisc players have a raw RF out |
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09:36
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Lord_Nigh |
but cd drives do not have any such thing |
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09:38
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schbirid |
wow, thanks for that ripping dump Lord_Nigh ! |
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09:39
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schbirid |
the fuck is VGPC? discimagecreator is from the redump community, isnt it? i always thought it was the gold standard for cd/dvd rips |
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09:41
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Lord_Nigh |
video game preservation collective or something like that |
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09:41
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Lord_Nigh |
they have a discord, which i can't even find |
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09:42
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Lord_Nigh |
now, if someone came up with a device to get raw pits/lands from a practical, easily obtainable CD drive? I'd have no problem using such a device |
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09:42
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schbirid |
https://www.preservegames.org/p/about_21.html sounds fantastic, what is the issue with them (not interested if it is unrelated politics) |
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09:43
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Lord_Nigh |
i don't see anything wrong with them myself |
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09:44
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schbirid |
ok, thanks :) |
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09:44
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09:44
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Lord_Nigh |
if mudlord is involved, he's a pathological serial troll |
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09:44
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Lord_Nigh |
but i don't think he is |
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09:45
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Lord_Nigh |
mudlord is who we have to thank for byuu becoming a recluse over the past decade though |
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Lord_Nigh |
he was mudlord's "prime victim" for a while |
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Lord_Nigh |
actually i think byuu is going by 'they' as a pronoun now |
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Lord_Nigh |
I don't hold that against them, but I occasionally will screw it up |
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Lord_Nigh |
by accident |
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schbirid |
:) |
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Lord_Nigh |
anyway back on topic of floppy imaging stuff |
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Lord_Nigh |
the part of the kryoflux license which disallows preservation use I believe is section 3.a.iv |
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Lord_Nigh |
" (iv) Using the Technology in a governmental and / or educational |
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Lord_Nigh |
institution or whole subsidiaries thereof;" |
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Lord_Nigh |
section (iii) also seems to ban use by non-profits |
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Lord_Nigh |
" (iii) Distribution or use from which any form of income is received |
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Lord_Nigh |
regardless of profits therefrom, or from which any revenue or |
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Lord_Nigh |
promotional value is received, as well as any distribution to or |
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Lord_Nigh |
use in a corporate environment. Use of the Technology to promote |
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Lord_Nigh |
or support a commercial venture is included in this restriction;" |
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Lord_Nigh |
the 'distribution to or use in a corporate environment' part means any images created cannot be used for any corporate purpose |
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Lord_Nigh |
ever, by anyone even not the licensee of the software, after creation |
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Lord_Nigh |
section 3.d.i means it is against the license to use images created with the software to create alternate open or closed source libraries to read said images |
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Lord_Nigh |
sarayan never agreed to this license nor used the software, found images distributed online, and reverse engineered the whole damn image format |
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schbirid |
can software usage even put restrictions on the products created with it? |
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Lord_Nigh |
the week he released it SPS 'mysteriously' decided to release the spec themselves. what a coincidence! |
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schbirid |
or would that be an EULA thing, "i wont do that, pinky swear"? |
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Lord_Nigh |
schbirid: there's a lot of stuff in this license which is either illegal to have in a license in some jurisdictions or a judge would just laugh at |
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schbirid |
i mean, someone could rip, give the rips privately to a friend and that friend has no connection to the software used for ripping |
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schbirid |
then that friend does whatever they want |
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schbirid |
yikes :D |
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Lord_Nigh |
that's what sarayan did, more or less |
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Lord_Nigh |
3.c seems to imply that a full copy of the license must be attached to all images created with the software |
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Lord_Nigh |
which was rarely, if ever, actually done. |
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schbirid |
lolwtf |
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schbirid |
enough IRC for the morning for me ;) |
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Lord_Nigh |
the whole kryoflux license might get thrown out if you find the right judge |
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Lord_Nigh |
ooh they left a BIG loophole though, the termination clause states if you destroy all "the technology" meaning all copies of the software (and presumably the images that you possess) the license immediately ends |
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Lord_Nigh |
but images you do NOT possess anymore (given away online) there isn't a clause that says they survive termination of the parent license |
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Lord_Nigh |
so effectively you can get away with imaging lots of stuff, uploading it somewhere, then deleting the software and images from your computer |
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Lord_Nigh |
hmm maybe not. the second half of the clause, while poorly written, seems to be intended to make it so "any distributees who have received rights to the |
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Lord_Nigh |
Technology through you so long as they are in compliance with the |
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Lord_Nigh |
provisions of this Agreement." |
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Lord_Nigh |
but 'received rights to the technology' is extremely badly worded |
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Lord_Nigh |
that implies ownership, but if something is 'unowned' then they never received rights to it |
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Lord_Nigh |
IANAL |
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Lord_Nigh |
this license is ass though |
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Lord_Nigh |
g'night everyone |
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eientei95 |
Lord_Nigh: Those two sections are still in the license, only bits removed from that section are |
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eientei95 |
(v) Using the Technology to develop a similar application on any platform for commercial distribution, except to the extent this restriction is prohibited by applicable law; or |
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eientei95 |
(vi) Using the Technology in any manner that is generally competitive with a SPS product as defined by SPS, except to the extent this restriction is prohibited by applicable law. |
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Flashfire |
Any comments on the FTP/List cleanup? |
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Kaz |
own up, who broke the tracker |
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Flashfire |
Which one? |
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Kaz |
*the* |
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Kaz |
https://tracker.archiveteam.org/ |
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Flashfire |
Not me |
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JAA |
The URLTeam one (ports 1337/1338) is also broken. |
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Kaz |
anyone got tracker machine access? arkiver /chfoo ? I see no astrid |
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betamax |
Well, after a bit of a delay I've managed to collect together the US midterm discovery I've been doing |
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betamax |
there are now three files: |
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betamax |
https://transfer.sh/lPwzv/facebook-midterm-list.txt |
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betamax |
https://transfer.sh/NZeiw/twitter-midterm-list.txt |
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betamax |
https://transfer.sh/Erdow/midterm-websites-list.txt |
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betamax |
containing the facebook, twitter and campaign sites, respctively |
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betamax |
note that the first two are LARGE: (~150MB) |
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betamax |
there's around 2M tweets and 500K facebook urls |
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betamax |
I'm very busy with uni coursework that I forgot was due in tomorrow, so the time I can devote to this is limited |
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betamax |
when I mentioned this on Friday, possibilities were arechivebot and / or private pipelines |
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betamax |
cc: JAA , PurpleSym ^ |
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betamax |
thoughts welcome |
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PurpleSym |
betamax: I’ll archive the 828 Facebook accounts and 2259 Twitter accounts with a private chromebot instance. But I won’t grab every single tweet/photo/…. Shall I wait until the election is over or do we want to have a copy before the 6th? |
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betamax |
from experience of the UK 2017 election, campaign websites and social media tend to get deleted quite soon after a candidate loses |
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betamax |
particularly for JoeBlogs2018.com-style domains that exist only to win the 2018 midterms |
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betamax |
time dependant, I plan to do a further grab Tuesday evening to get the final few days, then a grab about a week later |
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betamax |
*grab = discovery, not actual saving |
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PurpleSym |
betamax: Alright, I’ll get Twitter/Facebook asap. What about the websites list? Archivebot? |
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betamax |
good question. There's around 6,000 sites, so archivebot could maybe get the homepages, but realistically not all the pages of every site |
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betamax |
are you going to try to get every tweet / facebook url, or should I run those files in archivebot as well? |
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PurpleSym |
No, just the account page with infinite scrolling. Every tweet would take too long. |
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betamax |
is trying it in archivebot a bad idea, or should I just see what happens? |
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PurpleSym |
Twitter/Facebook without recursion: Definitely. Not sure about the campaign websites. |
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betamax |
yeah, I might put the campaign websites in without recusion to get the homepages, then try doing a local grab |
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betamax |
PurpleSym: is 'wget --mirror --page-requisites --warc-file=warc <URL>' a suitable way to download a site in a way that IA can ingest into the wayback later? |
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betamax |
(if they are willing, I'm meaning if this enables it to be done technically) |
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betamax |
I have now started grabbing the campaign sites with the above wget command |
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betamax |
^ PurpleSym |
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