| Time |
Nickname |
Message |
|
00:21
🔗
|
|
Stilett0 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
00:25
🔗
|
|
Stiletto has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
00:38
🔗
|
|
abartov__ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 1230 seconds) |
|
00:38
🔗
|
|
abartov__ has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
00:39
🔗
|
|
mgrytbak has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
|
00:39
🔗
|
|
_niklas has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
|
00:39
🔗
|
|
_niklas has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
00:40
🔗
|
|
pie_[bnc] has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
00:41
🔗
|
|
pie_ has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
|
00:41
🔗
|
|
Lord_Nigh has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
|
00:41
🔗
|
|
Gfy has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
|
00:41
🔗
|
|
Gfy has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
00:42
🔗
|
|
antomati_ has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
00:42
🔗
|
|
Meli-sama has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
00:43
🔗
|
|
Lord_Nigh has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
00:43
🔗
|
|
brayden has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) |
|
00:45
🔗
|
|
klg_ has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
01:14
🔗
|
|
Doranwen has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) |
|
01:39
🔗
|
|
Lord_Nigh has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
01:40
🔗
|
|
britmob has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
01:40
🔗
|
|
Jake has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
01:40
🔗
|
|
paul2520 has quit IRC (Write error: Broken pipe) |
|
01:41
🔗
|
|
endrift has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
01:41
🔗
|
|
paul2520 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
01:41
🔗
|
|
endrift has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
01:42
🔗
|
|
asdf01011 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
01:42
🔗
|
|
systwi_ has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
01:42
🔗
|
|
Arcorann_ has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
01:42
🔗
|
|
Jake has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
01:42
🔗
|
|
sembiance has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
01:42
🔗
|
|
sembiance has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
01:42
🔗
|
|
asdf01011 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
01:42
🔗
|
|
britmob has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
01:44
🔗
|
|
klg has quit IRC (se.hub efnet.portlane.se) |
|
01:44
🔗
|
|
Meli has quit IRC (se.hub efnet.portlane.se) |
|
01:44
🔗
|
|
Laverne has quit IRC (se.hub efnet.portlane.se) |
|
01:44
🔗
|
|
antomatic has quit IRC (se.hub efnet.portlane.se) |
|
01:45
🔗
|
|
systwi has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
01:45
🔗
|
|
systwi_ is now known as systwi |
|
01:46
🔗
|
|
Arcorann has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
02:33
🔗
|
|
brayden has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
03:04
🔗
|
SketchCow |
Oh hey JAA |
|
03:04
🔗
|
SketchCow |
I had someone come out of nowhere and asked why Hackint and not this other thing |
|
03:04
🔗
|
|
Larsenv has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC 1.8.0 - https://znc.in) |
|
03:05
🔗
|
SketchCow |
"I have the vague question: Why Hackint and not OFTC?" |
|
03:05
🔗
|
SketchCow |
Me: Because JAA, who does a lion's share of work, prefers HACKINT |
|
03:05
🔗
|
SketchCow |
Me: But it seems many people prefer "Not EFNet" |
|
03:06
🔗
|
SketchCow |
That is all |
|
03:06
🔗
|
SketchCow |
Maybe you have a reason for Hackint over OFTC. |
|
03:11
🔗
|
|
Larsenv has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
03:22
🔗
|
|
abartov__ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
|
03:22
🔗
|
|
abartov__ has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
03:54
🔗
|
|
qw3rty__ has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
03:59
🔗
|
|
wyatt8740 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
03:59
🔗
|
|
wyatt8740 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
04:01
🔗
|
|
qw3rty_ has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
05:43
🔗
|
|
Lord_Nigh has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
08:10
🔗
|
|
Laverne has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
09:20
🔗
|
|
DFJustin has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
|
09:21
🔗
|
|
DFJustin has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
09:34
🔗
|
JAA |
SketchCow: Essentially, there wasn't much if any discussion about OFTC. Yeah, that's also a good network as far as I know. At the risk of splitting hairs, their focus is FOSS development, so hackint's purpose (hacker culture) seems a bit closer to AT's main mission. Also, hackint staff has been very welcoming from the start, and I'm not sure if we could expect the same from OFTC (~4 times larger, |
|
09:34
🔗
|
JAA |
different mission). For example, hackint is willing to raise the channel join limit for us if needed, which is not something I'd expect on larger networks. |
|
10:10
🔗
|
|
godane has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
10:29
🔗
|
Raccoon |
I will remark that hackint does show an impressive growth for a fledgling irc network, going by netsplit.de stats. |
|
10:30
🔗
|
Raccoon |
That doesn't make me any less confused why people think it's necessary to move. |
|
10:31
🔗
|
JAA |
Mostly the red points here: https://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=User:JustAnotherArchivist/hackint_vs_EFnet |
|
10:32
🔗
|
Raccoon |
those are the negative points? |
|
10:33
🔗
|
JAA |
Unless you're masochistic, yes. |
|
10:33
🔗
|
Raccoon |
yeah, the TLS issues are quite unforgivable |
|
10:34
🔗
|
JAA |
And that list doesn't even include that the web chat thing breaks frequently and isn't fixed for weeks (making our IRC less accessible to newcomers) and some other things. |
|
10:35
🔗
|
JAA |
I elaborated a bit on other downsides to EFnet on https://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Talk:Move_Archiveteam_to_Hackint |
|
10:35
🔗
|
Raccoon |
all the points about nick/topic length limits and individual server diversity and sovereignty are things that racists, communists and fascists complain about. EFNet is a melting pot. |
|
10:36
🔗
|
JAA |
Not sure if serious or trolling. |
|
10:36
🔗
|
Raccoon |
so-so |
|
10:36
🔗
|
JAA |
Well, let's cut out the trolling then. |
|
10:37
🔗
|
Raccoon |
it's also so-so true though. how can server individualism, diversity, strengths and weaknesses set people off so strongly |
|
10:37
🔗
|
Raccoon |
each bring something to the table |
|
10:38
🔗
|
JAA |
Because it breaks shit, in particular regarding the different channel join limits and TLS configs etc. |
|
10:39
🔗
|
Raccoon |
I did acquiesce on TLS |
|
10:39
🔗
|
JAA |
You have your client configured to use TLS and join 25 channels. You get booted from the network because it's having one of its issues again, you reconnect, and suddenly you only get joined into 20 of the chans because that's the new server's limit, or you don't reconnect at all due to TLS. |
|
10:39
🔗
|
Raccoon |
tor is a technical hurdle given abuse |
|
10:40
🔗
|
JAA |
Yes, one that hackint has solved. |
|
10:40
🔗
|
Raccoon |
indeed |
|
10:40
🔗
|
Raccoon |
freenode's solution is to require a user to register with services (a solution efnet can't use) to at least add speedbumps to abuse |
|
10:41
🔗
|
Raccoon |
how does hackint throttle abusing tor? |
|
10:41
🔗
|
JAA |
Yes, and register without Tor, compromising the user's privacy. |
|
10:42
🔗
|
JAA |
I haven't seen much abuse through Tor on hackint so far, but there are good means in place to e.g. ban all unregistered Tor users easily. |
|
10:43
🔗
|
Raccoon |
so hackint is protected by its infancy and obscurity, which is a plus if you look at it that way |
|
10:44
🔗
|
Raccoon |
if the owner dies of covid tomorrow, how many months before the network desolves? |
|
10:44
🔗
|
JAA |
There isn't a single owner. |
|
10:44
🔗
|
JAA |
It's operated by a few people from different CCC chapters. |
|
10:45
🔗
|
Raccoon |
that's good. |
|
10:45
🔗
|
JAA |
Whereas I have no fucking clue who even operates EFnet anymore, if anyone. |
|
10:46
🔗
|
Raccoon |
a loose affiliation |
|
10:46
🔗
|
JAA |
Yeah, the servers users connect to are obvious, but the hubs? |
|
10:46
🔗
|
Raccoon |
sadly freenode was set up as a monarch under the brand of being a non-profit. now it's just a for-profit monarch |
|
10:47
🔗
|
Raccoon |
and the just king was killed while riding his bicycle, leaving it in the hands of some random (girlfriend)? |
|
10:47
🔗
|
JAA |
No idea about profits, but there are a number of other issues with freenode anyway. |
|
10:48
🔗
|
Raccoon |
freenode now belongs to that one VPN. PIR? |
|
10:49
🔗
|
JAA |
PIA/London Trust |
|
10:49
🔗
|
Raccoon |
^ |
|
10:49
🔗
|
JAA |
Yeah, as I said, there are many issues with Freenode. |
|
10:51
🔗
|
Raccoon |
But I value the strenght of EFNet's loose affiliation agility and resilience to time. Several of the other old networks are just amazon AWS and probably one dude running it all himself |
|
10:53
🔗
|
Raccoon |
(which does make it easier to make every server an identical clone, all with the same settings) |
|
10:55
🔗
|
Kaz |
resilience to time? shit, this thing doesn't even have resilience to a slight network blip |
|
10:56
🔗
|
Raccoon |
Kaz: Do you remembr the conversation you were having during the last blip? I already forgot. |
|
10:56
🔗
|
Raccoon |
But I'm still here 22 years later. |
|
10:56
🔗
|
JAA |
Stable performance over time! It's always been shit! |
|
10:56
🔗
|
Kaz |
hackint gives us a platform that _works_, we don't have to build extra tools around it |
|
10:56
🔗
|
Raccoon |
JAA, heh |
|
10:56
🔗
|
Kaz |
nobody should need to micromanage ops in a channel, I've lost count of the amount of channels we've lost due to unstable servers/netsplits/etc |
|
10:57
🔗
|
Raccoon |
> permissive policy (anything legal per German and Dutch laws is allowed) |
|
10:57
🔗
|
Kaz |
efnet doesn't pass the "if I send a message, I'm pretty sure other people will see it" test, which is a pretty low bar |
|
10:57
🔗
|
Raccoon |
isn't German law extremely critical about content involving illegal thoughts and illegal speach |
|
10:57
🔗
|
Raccoon |
with some pretty draconian rules defining both |
|
10:57
🔗
|
Kaz |
is that a question or a statement |
|
10:58
🔗
|
Raccoon |
yes/no |
|
10:58
🔗
|
JAA |
As long as you don't spout Nazi bullshit, you're good. |
|
10:58
🔗
|
Kaz |
because you're trying to make it one, because the other puts the burden of proof on you. |
|
10:58
🔗
|
Raccoon |
would archiving a site that was shut down by the German government be an unlawful activity? |
|
10:58
🔗
|
|
jshoard has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
10:58
🔗
|
JAA |
No, why would it? |
|
10:58
🔗
|
Raccoon |
Because you're interfering with government |
|
10:58
🔗
|
JAA |
Besides, discussing about the archival sure wouldn't. |
|
10:59
🔗
|
JAA |
Except you're not? |
|
10:59
🔗
|
Raccoon |
Coordinating a conspiracy group meant to usurp government intervention |
|
10:59
🔗
|
Kaz |
if I drive my car, by definition I am causing damage to the road (over time) and therefore interfering with government |
|
10:59
🔗
|
JAA |
A 'site shut down by the government' means the government banned operating the site, not accessing it. |
|
10:59
🔗
|
Raccoon |
to take information off the internet |
|
11:00
🔗
|
JAA |
Cf. linksunten |
|
11:00
🔗
|
Raccoon |
Kaz: the government designed road repair policy specifically to repair the damage you made with your tax dollars, because you asked them to |
|
11:01
🔗
|
Raccoon |
They also invented illegal thought and speech policies to protect the public from bad ideas |
|
11:01
🔗
|
Raccoon |
Make no mistake, the ideas themselves are considered to be bad and unlawful under German law |
|
11:01
🔗
|
JAA |
Where are you from, Raccoon? |
|
11:01
🔗
|
Raccoon |
not just the domain name or the hosting company. |
|
11:02
🔗
|
Raccoon |
JAA: I'm worldy! |
|
11:04
🔗
|
Raccoon |
That would be my concern anyways. If activities on the network are subject to German law, then the activities engaged there must not attempt to coordinate against and usurp government intervention |
|
11:05
🔗
|
Kaz |
how is that different to any other network |
|
11:05
🔗
|
Kaz |
if I get arrested (UK) I don't think I can use 'yeah but I was planning this all of efnet and it's legal there' as a defence |
|
11:06
🔗
|
Raccoon |
Kaz: You shut one efnet server down, nobody cares. If the German government complains to the King of EFnet, nobody cares. |
|
11:06
🔗
|
Raccoon |
You're not asked to leave the network. |
|
11:07
🔗
|
JAA |
It's interesting that you only talk about Germany and ignore the fact that ~half of hackint is hosted in the Netherlands. |
|
11:07
🔗
|
Raccoon |
I don't know about Dutch laws as much |
|
11:07
🔗
|
JAA |
Well, you don't seem to know too much about German ones either. |
|
11:08
🔗
|
Raccoon |
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ |
|
11:09
🔗
|
Kaz |
at the end of the day, nobody's forcing you to come to hackint. If you want to discuss things that you feel are so important that the german government are going to come after you, maybe you need to find somewhere better to do it anyway |
|
11:09
🔗
|
Kaz |
May I suggest screaming into a pillow |
|
11:10
🔗
|
Raccoon |
Nooo! I was so set on that becoming an important aspect of my life, too! |
|
11:17
🔗
|
|
godane has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
11:17
🔗
|
Raccoon |
I wonder why SketchCow doesn't just set up an efnet.textfiles.com server, longer topic length, no channel join limits, and everyone here can connect to it to be isolated from netsplits |
|
11:18
🔗
|
Raccoon |
they'd let him link easy peasy |
|
11:18
🔗
|
JAA |
If you figure out who 'they' are in the first place. |
|
11:19
🔗
|
Raccoon |
yeah |
|
11:19
🔗
|
JAA |
And it says somewhere that server applications are only accepted when there is a need in a particular region, i.e. the current servers can't handle the load. |
|
11:19
🔗
|
JAA |
And it'd introduce a single point of failure. |
|
11:19
🔗
|
JAA |
And it'd add more stuff to our already undermaintained infrastructure. |
|
11:19
🔗
|
JAA |
And it wouldn't solve the services issue. |
|
11:19
🔗
|
Raccoon |
i mean, it's just a ratbox server. set it and forget it |
|
11:20
🔗
|
JAA |
Yes, that's EFnet in a nutshell and why it sucks so much. |
|
11:21
🔗
|
Raccoon |
i still think that's its strength. but my values are reflective of a bygone era, or just observation over time |
|
11:21
🔗
|
Raccoon |
anyway, later on |
|
11:22
🔗
|
JAA |
Yeah, the late 80s when you didn't really have to worry about much on the internet and could run everything unsecured (hence why the IRC protocol didn't have authentication mechanisms for ages). |
|
11:23
🔗
|
|
BlueMax has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
|
12:43
🔗
|
|
Jonboy345 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) |
|
13:41
🔗
|
|
VerifiedJ has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
13:54
🔗
|
|
wyatt8740 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
13:55
🔗
|
|
wyatt8740 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
14:02
🔗
|
|
Wingy4 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
14:05
🔗
|
|
Wingy has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
14:06
🔗
|
|
Wingy4 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
14:10
🔗
|
|
Wingy has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
14:13
🔗
|
|
Wingy has quit IRC (Client Quit) |
|
14:13
🔗
|
|
Wingy has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
14:15
🔗
|
|
RichardG_ has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
14:21
🔗
|
|
RichardG has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 496 seconds) |
|
15:22
🔗
|
SketchCow |
The hard part of me running an IRC server is getting all the blood off it after I shoot myself |
|
15:24
🔗
|
SmileyG |
Is that before or after massacaring the users? |
|
15:25
🔗
|
SketchCow |
You know, anytime anyone talks to Racoon for an extended period of time, it's like you're playing Zelda and one of your hearts went away |
|
15:27
🔗
|
SketchCow |
I think your answer, JAA, is perfect. |
|
15:28
🔗
|
|
SmileyG is now known as Smiley |
|
15:29
🔗
|
Smiley |
Like other things from the 80's, such as clippy, they should all go away? |
|
15:30
🔗
|
JAA |
:-) |
|
15:50
🔗
|
prq |
SketchCow I'm pretty sure I saw you in that movie that just came out about action park. |
|
15:50
🔗
|
Arcorann_ |
Clippy was introduced in Office 97 |
|
15:55
🔗
|
SketchCow |
Yes, that was me. |
|
16:02
🔗
|
|
Arcorann_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
|
16:30
🔗
|
Smiley |
yeah but he couldn't start working til he was 16... |
|
16:31
🔗
|
|
BnAboyZ has quit IRC (Quit: The Lounge - https://thelounge.github.io) |
|
18:09
🔗
|
|
TC01 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
18:52
🔗
|
|
TC01 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
18:56
🔗
|
|
britmob_ has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
19:05
🔗
|
|
merami has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
19:46
🔗
|
|
semisimpl has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
19:49
🔗
|
|
lennier2 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
19:51
🔗
|
|
lennier1 has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) |
|
19:51
🔗
|
|
lennier2 is now known as lennier1 |
|
20:39
🔗
|
|
wyatt8740 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
20:40
🔗
|
|
wyatt8740 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
21:34
🔗
|
|
logchfoo4 has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection) |
|
22:16
🔗
|
|
Wingy6 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
22:17
🔗
|
|
Wingy has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
22:17
🔗
|
|
Wingy6 is now known as Wingy |
|
22:42
🔗
|
|
VerifiedJ has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) |
|
22:54
🔗
|
|
semisimpl has quit IRC (Quit: semisimpl) |
|
22:59
🔗
|
|
jshoard has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) |
|
23:02
🔗
|
|
Arcorann_ has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
23:11
🔗
|
|
Terbium has quit IRC (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.) |
|
23:20
🔗
|
|
Pixi has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) |
|
23:26
🔗
|
|
RichardG_ is now known as RichardG |
|
23:30
🔗
|
|
Pixi has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
23:37
🔗
|
|
BlueMax has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
23:44
🔗
|
|
Wingy7 has joined #archiveteam-bs |
|
23:46
🔗
|
|
Wingy has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) |
|
23:46
🔗
|
|
Wingy7 is now known as Wingy |