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JAA_ is now known as JAA [17:13] *** HP_Archiv has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) [17:18] *** AlsoHP_Ar has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [17:55] *** simon816 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [17:56] *** kiska has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [18:01] *** AlsoHP_Ar has joined #archiveteam-bs [18:31] *** riking___ has joined #archiveteam-bs [18:32] *** riking___ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [18:44] *** riking___ has joined #archiveteam-bs [18:55] *** simon816 has joined #archiveteam-bs [18:58] *** kiska has joined #archiveteam-bs [19:51] *** AlsoHP_Ar has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [20:07] *** HP_Archiv has joined #archiveteam-bs [20:08] *** qw3rty has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [20:12] *** qw3rty has joined #archiveteam-bs [20:24] *** HP_Archiv has quit IRC (Leaving) [20:27] *** HP_Archiv has joined #archiveteam-bs [20:32] *** riking___ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [20:47] Let's Encrypt: "Hey, lets set fairly short expiration dates for all our certs and then get mad when software actually follows expiration dates we set." [20:47] stickingrodinbicyclespokeswhileridingit.png [21:03] *** riking___ has joined #archiveteam-bs [21:12] *** benjinsmi has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [21:12] Except that's not at all what happened, but whatever. [21:15] superkuh: It's the root CA certificate that cross-signed LE since 2015 that expired. And because people are using old unmaintained versions of SSL libraries that don't handle cross-signed certificates correctly (because they fail if any of the certs they find is expired rather than checking whether there is at least one valid chain to a trusted CA), they get issues. surprised_pikachu.png [21:15] *** benjinsmi has joined #archiveteam-bs [21:49] You can say LE's only a player and blame it on the CA game, but that's the point. The CA system is complex to implement and breaks constantly if you don't replace your entire software world every 5 years. And that's fine for commercial and institutions. But there's nothing wrong with a human running old software and denying that many do it doesn't make it not happen. [21:50] Pushing TLS everywhere makes these commercially necessary problems everyone's problems. [21:51] Well, TLS everywhere only. [21:55] I mean, there are even workarounds for people who want to keep shooting their feet. From what I've read, if you're using OpenSSL 1.0.2, all you need to do is remove the expired CA cert from and add the proper LE CA cert to the trust store, and then things will keep working even though you're using ancient, unmaintained, known insecure software. [22:00] Also, I'm not denying that people run old software. I don't have any issue with it, so long as they don't complain about issues it inevitably causes. I even do that myself in some cases. It's still a bad idea in general though. [22:09] it is not about old libraries, but old CA bundles that do not get updated and rot over time [22:10] ca bundle should have the same "deployment" path as tzdata f.e. [22:14] *** HP_Archiv has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [22:16] Well, it's both. [22:16] But yes. [22:24] ISRG Root X1 was added to Debian's ca-certificates almost five years ago. DST Root CA X3 (the expired one) is still in at least Mozilla's CA cert DB. [22:25] So if you don't have the ISRG cert, yeah, squarely your fault. [22:25] And if you do and it's failing, it's because you have an old library. [22:25] ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ [22:27] that's a good summary [22:33] *** riking___ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [22:45] *** pnJay_ has joined #archiveteam-bs [22:53] *** riking___ has joined #archiveteam-bs [22:53] *** riking___ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [22:53] *** pnJay_ has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [23:10] *** riking___ has joined #archiveteam-bs [23:13] *** pnJay_ has joined #archiveteam-bs