#archiveteam-bs 2014-06-18,Wed

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Time Nickname Message
00:10 πŸ”— dashcloud I'm sorry I haven't read the "proper" distro list- could you link me to it?
00:12 πŸ”— SN4T14 Haha, there's no list, really. :p
00:14 πŸ”— SN4T14 Look at Arch if you want rolling releases (no "versions" of the distro, you just run an update command and you're on the newest version, and it's always the newest version of it, as opposed to an old version that only recieves bugfixes)
00:14 πŸ”— SN4T14 Or you could go with Ubuntu if you want a hand-holding, user-friendly distro
00:16 πŸ”— SN4T14 Or finally, you could use Debian, which is rock-solid, and widely used, with documentation on pretty much anything you'd ever think of doing.
00:17 πŸ”— SN4T14 Also Debian and Ubuntu have a lot more packages available than Arch, so that's another thing to consider
00:39 πŸ”— joepie91_ dashcloud: only on desktop
00:39 πŸ”— joepie91_ and it's great for that
00:40 πŸ”— joepie91_ wouldn't recommend it for server
00:40 πŸ”— JohnnyJac So, just to make ABSOLUTELY SURE... now that I have the tools, I can start picking FTP sites from the Github project and downloading them, then tarring them and sending them to the Internet Archive?
00:40 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: opensuse /is/ a proper distro
00:40 πŸ”— joepie91_ :P
00:40 πŸ”— JohnnyJac ^
00:40 πŸ”— joepie91_ one that doesn't continuously break like ubuntu does >.>
00:40 πŸ”— * JohnnyJac is running Warrior on openSUSE 13.1
00:41 πŸ”— joepie91_ JohnnyJac: I suppose, but you'll want to join #effteepee
00:41 πŸ”— SN4T14 joepie91, pfft, fuck OpenSuSE
00:41 πŸ”— joepie91_ that's where FTP stuff is discussed
00:41 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: cause?
00:41 πŸ”— JohnnyJac Right-o
00:41 πŸ”— SN4T14 :p
00:41 πŸ”— JohnnyJac Yeah, why?
00:41 πŸ”— joepie91_ inb4 "because it's not Arch"
00:41 πŸ”— joepie91_ :P
00:41 πŸ”— JohnnyJac Hahaha!
00:41 πŸ”— SN4T14 Why use a smaller distro when there's larger ones?
00:42 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: why use a larger distro when there's smaller ones?
00:42 πŸ”— joepie91_ that's a non-argument :P
00:42 πŸ”— joepie91_ (and I believe I already mentioned at least one reason - plus it's debatable which distros are small and which ones are large)
00:42 πŸ”— JohnnyJac Well, not necessarily. It's only a non-argument if size is the only factor being considered.
00:43 πŸ”— JohnnyJac Err.
00:43 πŸ”— JohnnyJac Yeah.
00:43 πŸ”— SN4T14 larger = more documentation, packages, and more idiots asking questions that solve your problems. :p
00:43 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: wrong
00:43 πŸ”— joepie91_ largely related to culture around the distro
00:43 πŸ”— joepie91_ not to size
00:43 πŸ”— SN4T14 bigger = more people = more issues = more of what I mentioned
00:43 πŸ”— joepie91_ still wrong :P
00:44 πŸ”— joepie91_ it entirely depends on the culture around the distro, as I said
00:44 πŸ”— joepie91_ despite opensuse having a noticeably less vocal usergroup than eg. ubuntu, the build service has packages for just about everything
00:44 πŸ”— JohnnyJac Truth be told, I have never had issues finding answers for openSUSE issues.
00:44 πŸ”— joepie91_ there are forums with quick responses to just about anything
00:44 πŸ”— SN4T14 Yeah, and the culture is always "better ask questions" unless you're running fucking Red Star. :p
00:44 πŸ”— joepie91_ and everything is very well documented on the wiki
00:44 πŸ”— joepie91_ so I'm really not sure where you're seeing an issue
00:45 πŸ”— joepie91_ unless, of course, you weren't seeing an issue, and simply extrapolating that since you hear about opensuse less, there must thus be less support :P
00:45 πŸ”— JohnnyJac That's how I feel. There may be fewer Google hits, but when I find an answer, it is quality and just works. And that is only when I have issues.
00:45 πŸ”— SN4T14 ^ Just like my experience with Debian, Ubuntu, and Arch
00:45 πŸ”— SN4T14 Except without the "fewer google hits" part
00:45 πŸ”— JohnnyJac Ubuntu I have the same opinion of. I run Ubuntu server, too.
00:46 πŸ”— JohnnyJac Can't say anything about Arch. Never got as far as to run it.
00:46 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: do you know what the opensuse software search is?
00:46 πŸ”— SN4T14 Why Ubuntu server? Why not Debian? The entire appeal of Ubuntu is a user-friendly version of Debian
00:46 πŸ”— joepie91_ (I should note that Arch is excellent in that it apparently has so many issues that every conceivable problem with a Linux distro is covered on the forums)
00:46 πŸ”— joepie91_ (>_>)
00:46 πŸ”— SN4T14 joepie91_, an in-browser alternative to aptitude search <whatever>
00:47 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: ... no, not really
00:47 πŸ”— SN4T14 That's literally what it is
00:47 πŸ”— SN4T14 https://software.opensuse.org/search
00:47 πŸ”— SN4T14 Massive search bar
00:47 πŸ”— SN4T14 For packages
00:47 πŸ”— joepie91_ no, it's not what it is
00:47 πŸ”— joepie91_ and this shows a problem with your assessment of opensuse
00:48 πŸ”— SN4T14 Then what is it?
00:48 πŸ”— joepie91_ because what you're missing is that, while aptitude search or apt-cache search only searches through your configured repositories, opensuse software search actually searches the /entire/ build service including home repositories
00:48 πŸ”— joepie91_ which has an absolutely massive amount of packages for just about anything imaginable
00:48 πŸ”— joepie91_ even if they're not in your configured repositories
00:48 πŸ”— joepie91_ it's the AUR of suse
00:49 πŸ”— * joepie91_ twiddles thumbs
00:49 πŸ”— * joepie91_ waits for SN4T14 to finish entering stuff in software search in the hope that it will find no results
00:50 πŸ”— SN4T14 Yeah, and according to Wikipedia, that's *smaller* than Debian's repo, 40400 packages for OpenSUSE, and 48610 packages for Debian
00:50 πŸ”— JohnnyJac #archive-bs - 'Dis be war, yo.
00:50 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: ... you are aware that you're looking at the package count for the official repositories, yes?
00:50 πŸ”— joepie91_ not the user repos?
00:50 πŸ”— joepie91_ nor the extra repos?
00:51 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: go ahead, enter a package name in software search
00:51 πŸ”— joepie91_ anything you don't expect to be in official repos
00:52 πŸ”— SN4T14 https://software.opensuse.org/package/perl-Teamspeak?search_term=teamspeak
00:52 πŸ”— SN4T14 lol
00:52 πŸ”— SN4T14 first try
00:54 πŸ”— joepie91_ I don't think you can actually host that on OBS
00:54 πŸ”— joepie91_ given that it's prop
00:54 πŸ”— SN4T14 Skype is on there, that's proprietary
00:55 πŸ”— SN4T14 Also, I prefer to know where my packages come from, and that the software in the repo is properly managed, not from any old repo, there's a reason you can't just go "Hey <distro> developers! Mind adding my repo?"
00:55 πŸ”— joepie91_ only in a few user repos, with a note saying "install from skype.com", so I don't think those are /supposed/ tp be there :P
00:55 πŸ”— joepie91_ to *
00:56 πŸ”— joepie91_ um, easy solution: you pick a repo with a recent version if no official / extra repos exist
00:56 πŸ”— SN4T14 See, that's exactly the reason why you shouldn't just include EVERY REPO EVER, now you have a version of Skype that's 15 years out of date. :p
00:56 πŸ”— garyrh looks like rawporter will be around 12GB
00:56 πŸ”— joepie91_ and if it's really not being updated, and you need a package, you fork the OBS project and update it
00:56 πŸ”— joepie91_ I run a decent number of things from user repos, and they're maintained just fine
00:56 πŸ”— joepie91_ again, culture
00:57 πŸ”— SN4T14 No, if no official/extra repo exists, I prefer to avoid the security risk, and manually downloading it, I don't want someone accidentally adding an old version of OpenSSL to their repo and making me vulnerable to heartbleed
00:57 πŸ”— joepie91_ you are aware that official/extra repo maintainers are not inherently trustale?
00:57 πŸ”— joepie91_ trustable *
00:58 πŸ”— joepie91_ (and honestly, the number of things that cannot be found in official/extra repos is /very/ limited)
00:58 πŸ”— SN4T14 There's more trust there than any old repo, since you can add a custom version of OpenSSL to your repo, but you can't change the official repo's OpenSSL without being the maintainer.
00:59 πŸ”— SN4T14 Same with debian, because it has a bigger official repo
00:59 πŸ”— joepie91_ debatable
00:59 πŸ”— joepie91_ I strongly doubt that extra repos are included in that count
00:59 πŸ”— joepie91_ and your remark is missing the point
01:00 πŸ”— joepie91_ (and no, you can't just "add a custom version of openssl to your repo", there's a vendor lock by default)
01:00 πŸ”— SN4T14 What do you mean vendor lock?
01:00 πŸ”— joepie91_ if you install a package from source A, and source B offers a newer version, then it doesn't magically upgrade to the one from source B
01:01 πŸ”— joepie91_ if you have openssl installed from official repos, it won't magically install it from a user repo
01:01 πŸ”— SN4T14 Got a source for that?
01:02 πŸ”— SN4T14 Because Debian doesn't do that: 'apt-get' defaults to something along the lines of "highest package version wins".
01:02 πŸ”— joepie91_ um, my own usage of opensuse for years?
01:02 πŸ”— joepie91_ you have to explicitly authorize a vendor change
01:02 πŸ”— joepie91_ even if a newer package is specified as a dep of a to-be-installed package
01:02 πŸ”— joepie91_ it will never quietly change vendor
01:03 πŸ”— joepie91_ I'll even make a screenshot for you
01:03 πŸ”— joepie91_ moment
01:05 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: http://owely.com/9SWZxj
01:05 πŸ”— joepie91_ there
01:05 πŸ”— joepie91_ I tried to downgrade VLC to a version from a different source
01:06 πŸ”— garyrh also, http://en.opensuse.org/SDB:Vendor_change_update
01:06 πŸ”— SketchCow SN4T14: Thanks again, screenshotter is definitely helping.
01:06 πŸ”— SketchCow https://archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3Aapple_ii_library_games&sort=-publicdate&page=16
01:06 πŸ”— SN4T14 SketchCow, no problem, happy to help. :)
01:06 πŸ”— SketchCow We just added the ability to show small screenshots next to items in search
01:07 πŸ”— garyrh wow, that's cool!
01:07 πŸ”— SketchCow Click on an item and the screenshot is an animated gif showing you random captures from the software's operation.
01:08 πŸ”— SN4T14 joepie91_, that screenshot does not scream "security issue!" in any way, that looks like a dependency issue, which 99% of users will click through without thinking
01:08 πŸ”— * joepie91_ wonders when we'll get pornsite-style mouse-over GIFs
01:08 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: that's kinda besides the point :P
01:09 πŸ”— joepie91_ and it usually /isn't/ a security issue
01:09 πŸ”— SN4T14 Keyword being "usually"
01:09 πŸ”— joepie91_ it also only triggers when you try to change vendor
01:09 πŸ”— joepie91_ not when you update
01:09 πŸ”— joepie91_ because by default it won't switch repos when updating
01:09 πŸ”— SN4T14 Until one guy, someone with a popular repo gets hacked, and now you have 5000 people running a backdoored version of OpenSSH
01:10 πŸ”— joepie91_ and that is not the case for official/extra repos how exactly?
01:10 πŸ”— SN4T14 Those are probably secured by someone half-competent, and the people that maintain your packages are semi-trustworthy
01:10 πŸ”— joepie91_ [citation needed]
01:11 πŸ”— SN4T14 [that goes next to whatever you want a citation for]
01:11 πŸ”— joepie91_ the reality is that the majority of people, /including/ those in supposedly authorative positions, suck balls at security
01:11 πŸ”— joepie91_ yeah, or under
01:11 πŸ”— joepie91_ "those are probably secured by someone half-competent"
01:11 πŸ”— joepie91_ I have not seen any evidence of this
01:11 πŸ”— joepie91_ and have only seen evidence to the contrary
01:11 πŸ”— joepie91_ that is; everybody sucks at security, not just hobbyists
01:11 πŸ”— SN4T14 That's because you only see evidence to the contrary
01:12 πŸ”— SN4T14 You don't see "Debian repos DIDN'T get hacked today" in the news
01:12 πŸ”— * joepie91_ hums captain obvious tune
01:12 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: I'm not just talking about repos
01:12 πŸ”— joepie91_ I'm talking about security policy
01:12 πŸ”— joepie91_ which is kinda something I get to deal with on a daily basis
01:12 πŸ”— joepie91_ >.>
01:13 πŸ”— SN4T14 Your manual is missing a passive-agressiveness clause.
01:13 πŸ”— joepie91_ no, this is just being annoyed
01:13 πŸ”— joepie91_ I have a very strong dislike for "arguments" that are purely based in unfounded "common knowledge"
01:13 πŸ”— joepie91_ especially where it concerns important topics like security
01:14 πŸ”— SN4T14 You can call it whatever you want, "* joepie91_ hums captain obvious tune" is passive agressiveness
01:14 πŸ”— joepie91_ no, it was me ridiculing [03:11] <SN4T14> That's because you only see evidence to the contrary
01:14 πŸ”— joepie91_ as that's literally what I just said
01:14 πŸ”— joepie91_ and I'm getting quite annoyed with where this conversation is headed
01:14 πŸ”— SketchCow Boys, boys, mom loves you equally
01:14 πŸ”— JohnnyJac XD
01:14 πŸ”— garyrh heh
01:15 πŸ”— SketchCow I have two machines playing endless Apple II games and programs and screenshotting them
01:15 πŸ”— SketchCow It's time to celebrate
01:15 πŸ”— SketchCow rawporter was a speed bump
01:15 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: you have to understand that the claims you're making now are claims that I hear on an almost-daily basis, from a never-ending stream of people, who never seem to realize that said claims don't have a basis in reality and appear to be completely false
01:15 πŸ”— SketchCow justintv was hilarious
01:15 πŸ”— JohnnyJac I thought this was #linuxfanboyswar.
01:15 πŸ”— joepie91_ my tolerance for it dries out over time
01:16 πŸ”— JohnnyJac I got Warrior running for Justin.TV, but in the last four days.
01:16 πŸ”— SN4T14 joepie91_, you can't seriously think that you can trust bob the amateur programmer as much as a distro maintainer...
01:16 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: you can't seriously think that you can't
01:16 πŸ”— joepie91_ in both cases, you have nfi who this person is
01:16 πŸ”— joepie91_ you have nfi what their security policies are
01:16 πŸ”— SN4T14 Sure, a distro maintainer is not a security expert, but ol' Bob doesn't even know common mistakes you can make
01:16 πŸ”— joepie91_ and so on, and so on
01:17 πŸ”— joepie91_ and you know that how?
01:17 πŸ”— joepie91_ how can you assess the knowledge of somebody you don't know, have never talked to?
01:17 πŸ”— joepie91_ how do you know that "Bob doesn't even know common mistakes you can make"? have you quizzed him about them?
01:17 πŸ”— joepie91_ how do you know that the distro maintainer /does/ know those things?
01:17 πŸ”— SN4T14 ...This is a fictional, plausible character to support my point, if you want to attach a [citation needed] sign to that, I don't even know how to respond.
01:18 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: if you're going to make up a worst-case character, then that's not really going to be a very good point
01:18 πŸ”— joepie91_ "amateur maintainers suck because this fictional amateur maintainer I just made up sucks"
01:18 πŸ”— joepie91_ that holds no water
01:19 πŸ”— joepie91_ I mean, sure, in your fictional scenario you are absolutely right
01:19 πŸ”— SN4T14 A worst-case character? So now you're changing your opinion just to try to prove me wrong? That's just ridiculous.
01:19 πŸ”— joepie91_ the problem is that there's absolutely no evidence that your fictional scenario resembles reality in any way
01:20 πŸ”— joepie91_ no, I don't think you understand what I mean
01:20 πŸ”— joepie91_ you just made up a character that "doesn't even know common mistakes you can make"
01:20 πŸ”— joepie91_ that's a worst-case character
01:21 πŸ”— joepie91_ and again, there's no evidence that your fictional scenario resembles reality, so I'm not sure why you're even bringing it up, unless you plan on proving that your fictional scenario /does/ resemble reality
01:21 πŸ”— SN4T14 Your entire argument has been "everyone is an idiot and has no clue about security" and I literally took a typical one of those peopel
01:21 πŸ”— SN4T14 people.*
01:21 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: I'm not sure what part of "you're making up a fictional scenario to prove a real-world point and you can't do that" is unclear to you? :|
01:21 πŸ”— SN4T14 And now you're contradicting that point by saying that my fictional character doesn't exist
01:21 πŸ”— * joepie91_ sighs
01:21 πŸ”— joepie91_ when I say "most people have no clue about security"
01:21 πŸ”— joepie91_ I am talking about _people_
01:22 πŸ”— joepie91_ not about _amateur maintainers_
01:22 πŸ”— joepie91_ and "people" /includes/ "distro maintainers"
01:22 πŸ”— joepie91_ your entire fictional scenario makes no sense
01:22 πŸ”— SN4T14 But not amateur maintainers, according to you
01:22 πŸ”— * joepie91_ sighs
01:22 πŸ”— joepie91_ that is not what I said, nor what I claimed
01:22 πŸ”— SN4T14 My fictional scenario revolves around your point that "most people have no clue about security"
01:22 πŸ”— joepie91_ no, your fictional scenario revolves around "here's a clueless amateur and a distro maintainer that does know his shit"
01:23 πŸ”— SN4T14 Most people implies that the average person is one of them
01:23 πŸ”— JohnnyJac On another note, can't believe TrueCrypt is dead. Wow.
01:23 πŸ”— joepie91_ which has nothing to do with what I said
01:23 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: how about we throw this entire fictional scenario in the bin
01:23 πŸ”— joepie91_ because we're going in circles
01:23 πŸ”— joepie91_ and this is a waste of time
01:23 πŸ”— SN4T14 Yeah, fuck it, this is tiring, it's really just personal preference. :p
01:24 πŸ”— JohnnyJac May BRB. Rebooting. Whole drive encryption on new laptop time
01:25 πŸ”— SN4T14 So, SketchCow, you were saying? :p
01:41 πŸ”— SN4T14 SketchCow, looks like there's only about 2 and a half pages of games left.
01:52 πŸ”— SketchCow Which where what.
01:52 πŸ”— SN4T14 Everything from here: https://archive.org/search.php?query=collection%3Aapple_ii_library_games&sort=-publicdate&page=21 to the end of page 23.
01:53 πŸ”— SketchCow Oh, I see.
01:53 πŸ”— SketchCow Sort of.
01:53 πŸ”— SketchCow That's everything from batch one, in "games"
01:53 πŸ”— SN4T14 Ah, there's more stuff to do?
01:53 πŸ”— SketchCow There are more batches, there are more genres
01:53 πŸ”— SketchCow applications, educational, compilations
01:53 πŸ”— SketchCow And then machines beyond apple ii
01:53 πŸ”— SketchCow In fact, dozens
01:53 πŸ”— SketchCow No, this is going to be half a million software packages.
01:53 πŸ”— SketchCow So yeah, thanks
01:54 πŸ”— SN4T14 So you'll want that third maching soon? :p
01:54 πŸ”— SketchCow At some point.
01:54 πŸ”— SN4T14 machine*
01:54 πŸ”— SN4T14 Okay, just let me know.
01:58 πŸ”— SketchCow You might as well give it to me soon, no doubt I'll get the other two whirring and get bored and want a third one attacking
01:59 πŸ”— SN4T14 Haha, okay, I'll PM you the details
02:02 πŸ”— SketchCow https://ia902508.us.archive.org/30/items/a2_Adventure_Teacher_5_1986_Crackophils_Gang/screenshot_33.jpg
02:03 πŸ”— SN4T14 KILROY WUZHERE
02:07 πŸ”— SN4T14 ohhdemgir.... Why is there a DHCP server running on Arc02?
04:15 πŸ”— yipdw what the fuck happened in here
05:50 πŸ”— SketchCow Two nerds got into a fight.
05:50 πŸ”— SketchCow I appreciate them both
05:51 πŸ”— SketchCow But yeah, my two dobermans, Nipsey and Russell, decided to fight over a linux bone
05:51 πŸ”— SketchCow Nobody died
06:01 πŸ”— yipdw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmTUW-owa2w
06:01 πŸ”— yipdw oh
06:10 πŸ”— SketchCow That is great
06:10 πŸ”— SketchCow Watching it
06:11 πŸ”— yipdw yeah, I love this
06:12 πŸ”— SketchCow I can give you a similar thing to listen to.
06:13 πŸ”— SketchCow https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SaFTm2bcac
06:16 πŸ”— yipdw oh cool
06:16 πŸ”— yipdw the first place I heard of the Amen Break was Ishkur's guide, so it's nice to see more
06:23 πŸ”— midas urgh, thats alot of backlog im not going to care about
06:44 πŸ”— yipdw heh, I guess more in the "cool youtube video" category
06:44 πŸ”— yipdw how ink is made: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fypi6dAJB8E
07:13 πŸ”— exmic my eyes seem to have stopped working
07:13 πŸ”— exmic this is worrying
07:13 πŸ”— exmic similarly worringly, I'm still on the net
07:16 πŸ”— yipdw jacked in
08:03 πŸ”— garyrh https://archive.org/details/this_is_phil_fish
08:15 πŸ”— yipdw nice
09:43 πŸ”— midas ^5 SketchCow
09:43 πŸ”— midas btw, awesome GTI
11:50 πŸ”— ohhdemgir SN4T14, dhcp server, arc02 FUCK KNOWS!
14:32 πŸ”— midas DHCP snooping enabled, solves ALL the issues
15:22 πŸ”— SN4T14 'morning
15:27 πŸ”— SN4T14 ohhdemgir, you should probably shut down that DHCP server. :p
15:31 πŸ”— ohhdemgir SN4T14, didn't start it, nothing to do with me, been running since day 1, nope.
15:39 πŸ”— SN4T14 ohhdemgir, you're the one managing Arc02. ;)
15:40 πŸ”— ohhdemgir penises
15:41 πŸ”— SN4T14 online.net has the best support
15:41 πŸ”— SN4T14 "Again i can't be more clear that what i said in previous post"
15:41 πŸ”— SN4T14 The reply before that started with "I'm sorry but i can't be more clear than before"
15:41 πŸ”— SN4T14 And the one before that ended in "I can't be more clear than that"
15:42 πŸ”— SN4T14 And every time, I've rephrased what I've said, read it over to make sure there's no confusion, and try to get some answers. >.>
16:06 πŸ”— joepie91_ https://torrentfreak.com/putlocker-rebrands-as-firedrive-user-files-remain-intact-140215/
16:07 πŸ”— joepie91_ it's a bit sad that more-or-less piracy sites are better at reorganization without data loss than presumably legitimate services
16:07 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: lol
16:08 πŸ”— SN4T14 ;_;
16:08 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: perhaps this is the point where you stop being polite and say "I want X and Y"
16:40 πŸ”— SN4T14 joepie91_, they won't meet my demands because they won't acknowledge the issue(s).
16:49 πŸ”— midas SN4T14: and what is the issue?
16:50 πŸ”— SN4T14 midas, they broke their "sales terms" (ToS) in ~4 places.
17:38 πŸ”— midas nice
17:42 πŸ”— SketchCow https://ia902500.us.archive.org/7/items/a8b_Airline_1985_Ariolasoft_DE/screenshot_00.jpg
17:47 πŸ”— midas is that in a game SketchCow ?
17:47 πŸ”— midas i need to play that. now.
17:50 πŸ”— midas damnit, i need a gamepad of some sorts
17:50 πŸ”— yipdw XBox 360 controller
17:51 πŸ”— joepie91_ midas: ha
17:51 πŸ”— joepie91_ I have a gamepad
17:51 πŸ”— joepie91_ ... but chrome doesn't treat its input correctly :(
17:52 πŸ”— midas 3-2 win for the Netherlands!
17:52 πŸ”— SN4T14 midas, https://archive.org/details/a8b_Airline_1985_Ariolasoft_DE
17:52 πŸ”— midas all thanks to SketchCow's orange GTI
17:52 πŸ”— SN4T14 In-browser emulation: https://archive.org/stream/a8b_Airline_1985_Ariolasoft_DE/Airline_1985_Ariolasoft_DE.atr?module=a800&scale=2
17:53 πŸ”— joepie91_ midas: please keep soccer out of my IRC thank you
17:53 πŸ”— midas SN4T14: i know, i need a gamepad to play
17:53 πŸ”— * joepie91_ is going to intentionally call it soccer now
17:53 πŸ”— SN4T14 midas, fuck that. :p
17:53 πŸ”— * joepie91_ grabs his gamepad
17:53 πŸ”— midas joepie91_: i will not! besides, only the yanks dont call it football
17:54 πŸ”— SN4T14 ^
17:54 πŸ”— midas because they have a different game that you dont play with feet but still needs to be called "foot"ball
17:54 πŸ”— yipdw not true, in Japanese it's pronounced sakka
17:54 πŸ”— yipdw </pedantry>
17:54 πŸ”— midas :p
17:54 πŸ”— joepie91_ lol
17:55 πŸ”— midas thats because they loose alot, they sakka at it
17:55 πŸ”— midas :p
17:55 πŸ”— joepie91_ that game does a lot of nothing for me
17:56 πŸ”— joepie91_ :(
17:56 πŸ”— JohnnyJac I played from 2nd grade to my junior year of high school. I sucked the enitre time, mind you.
17:56 πŸ”— SN4T14 midas, lose* a lot*
17:56 πŸ”— SN4T14 ;)
18:04 πŸ”— midas thanks :+
18:06 πŸ”— tephra SketchCow: pulled out some 100 year old books, maps and photographs from the recycling bin yesterday. Is that something the archive can save if I send it to them?
18:09 πŸ”— SketchCow Yes
18:10 πŸ”— tephra awesome, thanks
18:16 πŸ”— joepie91_ SketchCow: is there a scanning center in NL, btw?
18:17 πŸ”— joepie91_ that is, one that accepts book contributions
18:18 πŸ”— joepie91_ I see entire boxes full of (old) books being thrown out here on paper collection day, and it'd be nice if I could just scoop those up and have somebody drive them to a scanning center
18:18 πŸ”— joepie91_ (this seems to be a disproportionately common practice in this city, for some reason)
18:18 πŸ”— midas thats because your city is on fire most of the time
18:20 πŸ”— joepie91_ lol
18:20 πŸ”— joepie91_ I think it's on fire /because/ of those boxes of books
18:20 πŸ”— joepie91_ books burn pretty well
18:20 πŸ”— midas i wouldnt know, never sat fire to a city using books before
18:20 πŸ”— midas :p
18:21 πŸ”— JohnnyJac I remember thinking this was neat... http://www.diybookscanner.org/
18:23 πŸ”— SN4T14 Onto a different topic, how large do you guys think a day's worth of public Pastebin pastes are?
18:23 πŸ”— midas ask JohnnyJac
18:23 πŸ”— midas err joepie91_
18:23 πŸ”— midas he scrapes pastebin
18:23 πŸ”— SN4T14 joepie91_, how big is it?
18:23 πŸ”— JohnnyJac I was like... what? I don't know a damned thing about most things.
18:24 πŸ”— joepie91_ midas: http://rtvdordrecht.nl/nieuws/woning-jaar-gesloten-om-hennepkwekerij/
18:24 πŸ”— * joepie91_ facepalms
18:24 πŸ”— joepie91_ and um
18:24 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: let me check
18:26 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: stats being generated
18:26 πŸ”— joepie91_ please hold :P
18:27 πŸ”— joepie91_ JohnnyJac: let me show you something more awesome, sec
18:28 πŸ”— joepie91_ JohnnyJac: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlOQuuLYavY
18:29 πŸ”— godane i'm uploading episode 509 of tekzilla
18:29 πŸ”— SN4T14 joepie91_, what is this, an ad from the 90s?
18:30 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: maybe, but just watch it :P
18:31 πŸ”— SN4T14 shitty music, really zoomed-in camera panning aimlessly, on-screen text instead of people speaking, etc.
18:31 πŸ”— joepie91_ look at the device being shown
18:31 πŸ”— joepie91_ that's a pretty nifty book scanner
18:32 πŸ”— SN4T14 I am, I'm just making fun of their video. :p
18:32 πŸ”— joepie91_ :P
18:32 πŸ”— joepie91_ anyway, it uses suction / air blowing
18:32 πŸ”— joepie91_ for the page movement
18:32 πŸ”— joepie91_ which is pretty clever
18:32 πŸ”— joepie91_ and lets it scan just about anything without damage
18:33 πŸ”— JohnnyJac That is awesome. Better than manually flipping the pages with the DIY scanner. Hahaha!
18:33 πŸ”— SN4T14 ...Until the suction tears off a page from a super-fragile book. :p
18:33 πŸ”— midas or crushes a page
18:33 πŸ”— joepie91_ doubtful
18:33 πŸ”— joepie91_ when correctly calibrated :P
18:35 πŸ”— JohnnyJac That was my first thought, too.
18:35 πŸ”— JohnnyJac But, honestly, if we have a super-fragile book.
18:35 πŸ”— JohnnyJac I don't think this would be the device taking care of it.
18:35 πŸ”— SN4T14 joepie91_, did you figure out how big a day's worth of Pastebin is?
18:36 πŸ”— JohnnyJac It would likely be handed off to restoration/preservation specialists, and they would have specific methods for digitizing it. Depending upon book age, material composition, etc.
18:37 πŸ”— SketchCow No scanning center in NL
18:37 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: it's still counting
18:37 πŸ”— joepie91_ SketchCow: aw, shame
18:38 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: you're getting a historical daily paste collection size since late november last year or so
18:38 πŸ”— joepie91_ lol
18:38 πŸ”— joepie91_ with a gap in there somewhere because my scraper was blocked (and later mysteriously unblocked)
18:50 πŸ”— SN4T14 joepie91_, I think you forgot to upload the scraper to Github: https://github.com/joepie91/pastebin-scrape
18:54 πŸ”— joepie91_ :P
18:54 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: switch branch
18:54 πŸ”— joepie91_ also
18:54 πŸ”— joepie91_ re-counting
18:54 πŸ”— joepie91_ my SSH conn broke
19:00 πŸ”— * midas bangs head while ruby compiles
19:00 πŸ”— midas i might end up with a concussion
19:03 πŸ”— SN4T14 midas, stop being silly and switch to Python. :p
19:04 πŸ”— midas i know :<
19:04 πŸ”— midas im fixing this STUPID idea my work had
19:04 πŸ”— midas "lets use clip bucket, it looks like youtube!"
19:04 πŸ”— SN4T14 To use Ruby? :p
19:04 πŸ”— midas need to install flvtool
19:04 πŸ”— midas needs ruby 1.8.3
19:04 πŸ”— midas rubyforce is down.
19:05 πŸ”— midas forGe
19:05 πŸ”— SN4T14 apt-get install ruby
19:05 πŸ”— SN4T14 :D
19:05 πŸ”— midas centos doesnt carry 1.8.3 anymore afaik
19:05 πŸ”— SN4T14 apt-get uninstall centos && apt-get install debian
19:05 πŸ”— SN4T14 :D
19:06 πŸ”— midas didnt check, just went, oh fuck, we need to compile this and this.
19:06 πŸ”— midas if only SN4T14
19:06 πŸ”— midas IF only
19:06 πŸ”— SN4T14 And are you sure it doesn't just require 1.8.3 and up?
19:06 πŸ”— midas nope
19:06 πŸ”— midas last supported is 1.8.3
19:06 πŸ”— SN4T14 It specifically needs 1.8.3? >.>
19:06 πŸ”— midas ...
19:07 πŸ”— midas "seems like a great plan this clipbucket, midas can fix that!"
19:08 πŸ”— SN4T14 Their website looks like a 90s web dev tried to modernize the website
19:08 πŸ”— SN4T14 >.>
19:08 πŸ”— SN4T14 Huh, "modernize" is actually a word. :p
19:09 πŸ”— SN4T14 joepie91_, you really should start using tmux (or screen if you're a peasant :p)
19:10 πŸ”— joepie91_ it's running in screen now
19:11 πŸ”— joepie91_ .....
19:11 πŸ”— joepie91_ curl: (55) Send failure: Broken pipe
19:11 πŸ”— joepie91_ fuck that
19:11 πŸ”— joepie91_ ffs
19:11 πŸ”— joepie91_ fine, no piping to sprunge then
19:14 πŸ”— DFJustin midas: good thing we archived rubyforge then :P http://web.archive.org/web/20140513230711/http://files.rubyforge.vm.bytemark.co.uk/
19:14 πŸ”— midas true :p
19:29 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: http://sprunge.us/bWOI
19:30 πŸ”— SN4T14 Is that all uncompressed?
19:30 πŸ”— joepie91_ (I'm probably missing pastes atm, really need to look into this)
19:30 πŸ”— joepie91_ yes
19:30 πŸ”— joepie91_ it's not all that much
19:30 πŸ”— joepie91_ :P
19:30 πŸ”— joepie91_ so yeah, seems roughly 500MB per day
19:30 πŸ”— SN4T14 Yeah, but suddenly it dropped down massively
19:30 πŸ”— joepie91_ SN4T14: that's when my scraper was blocked
19:31 πŸ”— joepie91_ and it seems to now be getting some parts
19:31 πŸ”— SN4T14 But it's still now only getting ~200MB per day
19:31 πŸ”— joepie91_ but not all of it
19:31 πŸ”— joepie91_ yes, I wasn't done talking yet
19:31 πŸ”— joepie91_ lol
19:31 πŸ”— SN4T14 Ah
19:31 πŸ”— joepie91_ haven't had time to fix it
19:31 πŸ”— godane so looks like its Autsim Pride Day today: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autistic_Pride_Day
19:31 πŸ”— SN4T14 Is that really something you should feel proud of?
19:32 πŸ”— godane i don't
19:32 πŸ”— godane i just found out about it on reddit
19:32 πŸ”— SN4T14 Like, I have nothing against autistic people, but "pride" feels like the wrong word
19:32 πŸ”— godane my thought exactly
19:32 πŸ”— joepie91_ I find "pride" to be a dubious concept in most contexts
19:32 πŸ”— joepie91_ no different for eg. "gay pride"
19:33 πŸ”— joepie91_ I mean, by all means go crazy with a festival in a city
19:33 πŸ”— joepie91_ but wtf does that have to do with pride
19:33 πŸ”— godane there is also World Autism Awareness Day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Autism_Awareness_Day
19:34 πŸ”— godane i have the cnn student news episode that talked about that
19:34 πŸ”— SN4T14 godane, does it have an organziation that pockets most of the donations, too? :p
19:35 πŸ”— godane i think Autism Speak
19:36 πŸ”— SN4T14 JohnnyJac, your internet is dying
19:36 πŸ”— godane anyways this episode from CNN Student News about autism day: https://archive.org/details/student.news.2008.04.02.cnn
19:36 πŸ”— SN4T14 JohnnyJac, fix your internet!
19:36 πŸ”— SN4T14 >.>
20:10 πŸ”— joepie91_ http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/29401/centralnic-buys-domain-name-registrar-internet-bs
20:10 πŸ”— joepie91_ well fuck this
20:14 πŸ”— joepie91_ SketchCow, the clown makes another victim: http://beta.slashdot.org/story/203503
20:15 πŸ”— Smiley and fucking shitty backup policy
20:16 πŸ”— joepie91_ yup
20:17 πŸ”— SN4T14 "We don't need backups, Amazon does all that for us!"
20:25 πŸ”— midas i wouldnt be supprised if there was no DDoS to start with
20:25 πŸ”— midas more a "hey, im going to clean up this s3 bucket. oops."
20:26 πŸ”— midas or any "durr, im using cloud i no bakup hurr"
20:28 πŸ”— SN4T14 rm -rf /etc "Hey, Bob, I deleted your et cetera folder because we needed some space!"
20:29 πŸ”— garyrh "nothing important in there, right bob?"
20:29 πŸ”— yipdw to be fair, offline backup is something a lot of companies don't do; this one is just newsworthy because it involved nerds
20:30 πŸ”— SN4T14 yipdw, you wouldn't even need offline backup, just set up another AWS account and do daily snapshots to Amazon Glacier
20:30 πŸ”— joepie91_ yipdw: offline backup isn't even required
20:30 πŸ”— joepie91_ as long as it's write only
20:31 πŸ”— joepie91_ (that is, on the access level of the server pushing the backup)
20:31 πŸ”— yipdw ok, so I used "offline backup" incorrectly
20:31 πŸ”— yipdw whateer
20:31 πŸ”— SN4T14 "Write only" being no-modify, also. ;)
20:31 πŸ”— joepie91_ your server should only be able to push backups, not delete/change/retrieve/etc
20:31 πŸ”— yipdw point is that backup isn't high on the list for a lot of companies, end
20:31 πŸ”— yipdw no fucking distro wars again
20:31 πŸ”— joepie91_ sure, and neither is security or ethics or a million other things that are /supposed/ to be high in priority list
20:31 πŸ”— yipdw hopefully this will raise awareness a bit
20:32 πŸ”— joepie91_ because lolmoney
20:32 πŸ”— SN4T14 yipdw, way too small-scale to raise awareness
20:32 πŸ”— yipdw it's on pedant central
20:33 πŸ”— yipdw I'm sure that helps
20:33 πŸ”— SN4T14 Even Adobe leaking their shittily-protected (yes, that's now a word) password database won't be enough to get people to use proper password storage
20:33 πŸ”— joepie91_ to be fair
20:34 πŸ”— joepie91_ there's now a collective "STOP USING MD5 AND SHA1" movement going on in PHP land
20:34 πŸ”— joepie91_ not that I'm entirely happy about the bcrypt recommendation, but okay
20:34 πŸ”— yipdw when will PHP move to PBKDF2, then bcrypt, then scrypt
20:34 πŸ”— yipdw oh they skipped ahead heh
20:34 πŸ”— joepie91_ yipdw: bcrypt is natively supported, and has been for some time
20:34 πŸ”— joepie91_ pbkdf2 is natively supported from >=5.5
20:35 πŸ”— joepie91_ scrypt is not natively supported, but pure PHP implementations exist
20:35 πŸ”— joepie91_ as does a C implementation iirc
20:35 πŸ”— joepie91_ the problem wasn't so much in support
20:35 πŸ”— yipdw libscrypt heh
20:35 πŸ”— joepie91_ as it was in culture
20:35 πŸ”— yipdw sure
20:35 πŸ”— SN4T14 yipdw, fuck those in-between things, just go straight to scrypt
20:35 πŸ”— yipdw always the case
20:35 πŸ”— joepie91_ similar to mysql_
20:35 πŸ”— joepie91_ PDO has been around for a good time
20:35 πŸ”— joepie91_ but only in the past 1-2 years it gained traction
20:35 πŸ”— joepie91_ that is, /real/ traction
20:36 πŸ”— yipdw SN4T14: not sure why you're telling me this, I don't maintain php
20:36 πŸ”— yipdw heh
20:36 πŸ”— SN4T14 Also, web devs should check this page for changes every month and update their shit: https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Password_Storage_Cheat_Sheet
20:36 πŸ”— joepie91_ also, SN4T14, the caveat with scrypt is that it's had relatively little review
20:36 πŸ”— SN4T14 yipdw, probably because you said "move to PBKDF2, then bcrypt, then scrypt"
20:36 πŸ”— yipdw SN4T14: it's a joke
20:38 πŸ”— yipdw it's like being at any Comic-Con
20:38 πŸ”— yipdw heh
20:39 πŸ”— SN4T14 ...Is that an insult?
20:46 πŸ”— RedType 2.1 Do not limit the character set and set long max lengths for credentials
20:46 πŸ”— RedType 2.2 Use a cryptographically strong credential-specific salt
20:46 πŸ”— RedType it's depressing that we have to have that on the list
20:47 πŸ”— SN4T14 Haha, you should meet my bank
20:47 πŸ”— SN4T14 6-10 letter passwords, upper- and lowercase letters only
20:49 πŸ”— joepie91_ RedType: does it suggest bcrypt?
20:49 πŸ”— joepie91_ because that'd be kinda hilarious, given that all implementations quietly cut off input after 70 chars
20:49 πŸ”— joepie91_ lol
20:49 πŸ”— joepie91_ or 80 or w/e
20:49 πŸ”— SN4T14 joepie91_, it suggests PBKDF2, bcrypt, and scrypt, depending on your use-case
20:50 πŸ”— RedType joepie91_: if you have to HAVE TO HAVE TO have a limit, i'm pretty sure that 80 characters is okay. i mean, "okay" in a specific sense of the word in that if i see that i wont run screaming from your application
20:51 πŸ”— exmic yes
20:51 πŸ”— exmic 50 characters is a nice long password
20:51 πŸ”— joepie91_ RedType: sure, you wouldn't
20:51 πŸ”— joepie91_ somebody else might
20:51 πŸ”— joepie91_ which is kinda the problem
20:52 πŸ”— joepie91_ people have differentt methods of creating passwords
20:52 πŸ”— joepie91_ added problem is that the cutting off happens /quietly/
20:52 πŸ”— RedType joepie91_: the fact that it
20:52 πŸ”— RedType nm you beat me
20:52 πŸ”— RedType i was going to say that quiet is the problem
20:53 πŸ”— joepie91_ :P
20:53 πŸ”— joepie91_ ref http://pastebin.com/2Kyh8VXn
20:53 πŸ”— joepie91_ confirmed that other implementations do the same
20:54 πŸ”— exmic nice.
20:55 πŸ”— godane i'm brute forcing nbc clips for news eve 1999
20:55 πŸ”— godane *New Years Eve 1999
20:56 πŸ”— SN4T14 Speaking of hashes doing weird things, PBKDF2-HMAC does something similar-ish: http://mathiasbynens.be/notes/pbkdf2-hmac
22:30 πŸ”— yipdw heh, there are some weird grammatical lapses in Apple Developer docs
22:30 πŸ”— yipdw e.g. https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/AVFoundation/Reference/AVAsset_Class/Reference/Reference.html#//apple_ref/occ/instp/AVAsset/duration
22:31 πŸ”— yipdw "If providesPreciseDurationAndTiming is YES the absolute precision, at whatever processing cost that entailsҀ“and cost can be significant for certain media formats, such as .mpg."
22:32 πŸ”— SN4T14 Sounds like Apple outsources their dev team. :p
22:33 πŸ”— joepie91_ http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/28h3z6/us_government_accidentally_reveals_private/
22:33 πŸ”— joepie91_ "oops"
22:34 πŸ”— exmic from the url I was hoping the next word was "keys"
22:34 πŸ”— exmic boooring
22:34 πŸ”— yipdw joepie91_: it's okay, we all delete recalled emails in America
22:34 πŸ”— joepie91_ exmic: disappointing click
22:34 πŸ”— joepie91_ yipdw: hehehe
22:37 πŸ”— yipdw I saw a "Recall" email once at my old job
22:37 πŸ”— yipdw it was really funny
22:38 πŸ”— yipdw because if you're not using Exchange (and we were all supposed to, but we stubbornly kept on accessing the mail servers via IMAP) all it does is say "So-and-So Fucked Up"
22:39 πŸ”— yipdw I was surprised that that's all it did; certainly it would be possible to e.g. also delete the email from the IMAP store
22:39 πŸ”— yipdw but hey, Exchange
23:07 πŸ”— godane so i found the mother load of nbc news 2000 clips it looks like
irclogger-viewer