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godane |
uploaded: https://archive.org/details/Sharp_Understanding_Video_1983_VHSRip |
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godane |
i'm up to 478k items |
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godane |
i'm on a roll today |
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05:42
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JesseW |
wyatt8750: So, as I was saying about archiving options... |
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05:42
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xmc |
you're overthinking this |
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05:42
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xmc |
point archivebot at it |
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05:42
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xmc |
unless it's huge |
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05:42
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wyatt8750 |
it's not _huge_. |
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05:42
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wyatt8750 |
just large |
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05:42
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wyatt8750 |
(by my standards) |
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05:42
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JesseW |
eh, I feel it's worthwhile to blather out the various options, if not for this particular case, then for other ones. |
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05:42
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wyatt8750 |
the biggest thing is probably complete scans of some atari service manuals |
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05:43
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JesseW |
Certainly pointing archivebot at it is the easiest, for sure. |
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05:43
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wyatt8750 |
1.5GiB |
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05:44
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wyatt8750 |
xmc: I'll need voice on archivebot then |
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05:44
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xmc |
done |
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05:44
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wyatt8750 |
tyvm |
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05:46
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JesseW |
I think the three main options are: direct upload to an IA item, Wayback Machine save/ feature, and #archivebot. Anything else (that ends up with the content on IA) that people can think of? |
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06:18
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swebb sets mode: +o bzc6p |
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06:18
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bzc6p |
So you're calling 1,5 GB _large_ |
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06:18
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bzc6p |
in 2015 |
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06:19
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bzc6p |
for ArchiveTeam |
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06:19
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wyatt8750 |
not large for archiveteam |
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06:19
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wyatt8750 |
but large for a text-only site :\ |
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06:19
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wyatt8750 |
a personal text-only site |
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06:19
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bzc6p |
Well, I've heard from another person too the wget web.archive.org/save/ stuff, but I'm not sure that's technically perfectly okay |
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06:20
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bzc6p |
I'm not sure what links the page returned to wget has... |
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06:20
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bzc6p |
Might be probably okay though. |
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06:20
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wyatt8750 |
I wasn't trying to do that. I was thinking I'd wget localhost on my site, and then transfer the files without all the movies & stuff. |
|
06:21
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bzc6p |
I prefer WARCing and then uploading. Wget (or wpull) is perfect for that. You should have a command with well-chosen ooptions and then that can be reused every time when saving a website. |
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06:22
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JesseW |
bzc6p: WARCing and uploading won't get it in the Wayback Machine, though. |
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06:22
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bzc6p |
It should. One day. |
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06:22
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dan- |
WARCing and uploading, then pinging someone in here to add it to the collection*? |
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06:23
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JesseW |
it's a trust issue -- /save/ and #archivebot are trusted to have honestly went out and got the real page. A WARC from some random person ... isn't. |
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06:24
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bzc6p |
So the "direct upload to an IA item" involves uploading stuff directly (filtered), wgetting or wpulling the stuff and uploading, or doing the second with WARCing. |
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06:24
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wyatt8750 |
a WARC from the site owner, uploaded from the IP of the server itself, isn't? |
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06:24
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wyatt8750 |
or a WARC of the server, on the server itself? |
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06:24
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wyatt8750 |
:p |
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06:24
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bzc6p |
I think there are no more options. |
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06:26
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bzc6p |
Well, SketchCow just came up with an idea of creating WARCs from unwarced stuff. Trust issue. |
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06:26
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bzc6p |
You're right, however. |
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06:26
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JesseW |
wyatt8750: either of those still could be different from what a 3rd-party (which /save/ and #archivebot are) gets when it asks for the page. |
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06:27
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wyatt8750 |
only thing I can think of that would be different is my page that tells you your user agent :p |
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06:27
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wyatt8750 |
anyway, it's all getting crawled I guess |
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06:27
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bzc6p |
Someone I know mailed the IA about his uploaded warcs, and first he was replied that IA doesn't ingest user uploaded warcs. |
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06:27
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JesseW |
yeah, I heard that too |
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06:27
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bzc6p |
Then they said one day they might. |
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06:28
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JesseW |
If a clearer way of showing provance was available, then it would certainly make sense. |
|
06:28
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|
JesseW |
(and I think that's a intended feature in the new Wayback Machine) |
|
06:29
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bzc6p |
Indeed, it's a rela problem to keep the Wayback Machine credible. WARCs are too easy to manipulate. |
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06:29
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wyatt8750 |
signed WARC files? |
|
06:30
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|
JesseW |
wouldn't help. |
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06:30
🔗
|
wyatt8750 |
well, I guess self-signed warcs aren't useful either |
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06:30
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|
wyatt8750 |
:p |
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06:30
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|
JesseW |
signing only tells you it hasn't changed since it was signed; that's not what's in question |
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06:30
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|
wyatt8750 |
hm |
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06:30
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|
bzc6p |
Or the WM could pop up a banner like "This page was saved by a third party and we don't take responsibility about its credibility". |
|
06:33
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|
bzc6p |
Thank God ArchiveTeam has become a reliable source. (One who is really bad could manipulate the little WARCs he saved before rsyncing, so it's not 100% safe either.) |
|
06:33
🔗
|
JesseW |
Don't thank God -- thank SketchCow. ;-) |
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06:34
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JesseW |
bzc6p: that's made (slightly) harder by checks that the warrior code uploaded has an expected hash, IIRC. |
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06:34
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|
bzc6p |
Also, WARCing stuff is not useless even is IA doesn't inject them into Wayback Machine: *you* can always inject it to an other instance of the Wayback software. E.g. create an alternativ archive. Also, it helps restoring a static (or even a bit of dynamic) version of the website! |
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06:34
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JesseW |
s/warrior code uploaded/warrior code doing the uploading/ |
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06:35
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wyatt8750 |
a clever bastard website could alter its content if it detected an archiver user agent |
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06:35
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JesseW |
bzc6p: absolutely. |
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06:35
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|
JesseW |
wyatt8750: some do |
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06:35
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|
wyatt8750 |
yeah, and it maddens me. |
|
06:35
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|
wyatt8750 |
:p |
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06:35
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JesseW |
eh, that's what user-agent spoofing is for |
|
06:36
🔗
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wyatt8750 |
Worst was when I tried to wget a PDF from atariage and they claimed I was crawling because wget user agent, threatening to block my IP if I continued |
|
06:36
🔗
|
wyatt8750 |
thinking about running `alias wget=wget --user-agent=''` |
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06:36
🔗
|
wyatt8750 |
(in my bashrc) |
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06:37
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bzc6p |
Netscape Navigator 4.08 – I'd like to see the face of the admin looking though the logs |
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06:37
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wyatt8750 |
lol |
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06:38
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wyatt8750 |
I run seamonkey so I'm not quite that strange. But I do basically run navigator |
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06:39
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bzc6p |
JesseW: I don't know what part of the script is checked and the WARC itself is checked. I saw some lines about it in the code, but I'm not an expert. What is sure I often change a bit in the code, that is number of retries, and I doesn't seem to have been rejected. |
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06:40
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bzc6p |
wyatt8750: a last stand is always the GoogleBot |
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06:41
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JesseW |
The check may only be in the warrior version, not the standalone. |
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06:41
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wyatt8750 |
'2015-11-01T06:01:39+00:00 ArchiveTeam ArchiveBot/20150715.01 (wpull 1.2.1) and not Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/42.0.2311.90 Safari/537.36' |
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06:41
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wyatt8750 |
yay its logging |
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06:41
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JesseW |
ah, neat. |
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06:42
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wyatt8750 |
(must have hit my agent.php page, the only page that makes a log of any kind -_-) |
|
06:43
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JesseW |
I'd like to contribute an archivebot pipeline, but I'm still getting my feet under me maintaining a home server, so I'm less than enthused about trying to maintain one off in a datacenter somewhere (and I don't think running an archivebot pipeline off my home IP is a good idea. :-) ) |
|
06:44
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wyatt8750 |
I've got two servers. One's my desktop PC I do things on, and the other one is an IBM netburst 3.6ghz xeon server (xseries 236) that I got free. |
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06:44
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bzc6p |
Depends on the ISP, but the only main bottleneck is maybe the upstream |
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06:44
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wyatt8750 |
Been planning to transfer everything to the IBM server, but too lazy. |
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06:45
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vitzli |
nice heater |
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06:45
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JesseW |
bzc6p: it's more sharing the IP address -- I don't want my normal traffic getting mixed with the reputational damage of an archivebot pipeline. |
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06:45
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wyatt8750 |
In a dorm where I don't control heating and have an entire wall made of glass I need it -_- |
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06:46
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bzc6p |
What damage? It's a heoric act! :) |
|
06:47
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vitzli |
I would take one or two if I had an opportunity |
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06:47
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JesseW |
bzc6p: various websites getting archived feel differently. :-/ |
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06:47
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JesseW |
we don't call it a DPOS for nothing... |
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06:47
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wyatt8750 |
vitzli: the server? yeah, it's nice. Also it's my only way to read data off of SCSI drives |
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06:49
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bzc6p |
You're right. It's me who speaks easily. I found some websites whose archival – in may pace – takes a lifetime, so I can saturate my bandwidth continously, knowing wgat I archive. – Now that you say, it's indeed not that comfortable running an ArchiveBot node from home. |
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06:56
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JesseW |
hm. slightly confused by some of your wording there -- but I agree with the point. |
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06:57
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JesseW |
And, BTW, thank you VERY MUCH for your work on archiving Hungarian sites. We should be so lucky to have people doing similar work for other countries/languages. |
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schbirid |
lol, _mv_ing ~300G of files around takes 3 hours on the 8tb disk. i thought it would instantaneous like on normal ones. derp |
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Kazzy |
schbirid: you got one of those 8tb seagates? |
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godane |
i'm starting to upload more of metro.co.uk |
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godane |
turns out i still had about 3 months from 2009 saved but was not uploaded yet |
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godane |
also note that there is not site map urls for 2009-11-28, 2009-12-19, and 2009-12-20 |
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schbirid |
Kazzy: yea |
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schbirid |
that's one sexy rss feed http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01drwny/episodes/downloads.rss |
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godane |
schbirid: use --content-disposition for the mp3s |
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godane |
you will get better file names |
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joepie91 |
godane: ... why the hell is that not a default |
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schbirid |
afaik some servers serve shit with it |
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schbirid |
it's not perfect |
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schbirid |
but i almost always use it |
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joepie91 |
I've never seen it done wrong |
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joepie91 |
browsers have it as a default too |
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joepie91 |
lol |
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midas |
joepie91: you there? |
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SketchCow |
OH LOOK IT IS MIDAS |
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SketchCow |
Madis, you maniac |
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midas |
It's me, I'm near Dordrecht and need joepie91s address :-p |
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SketchCow |
Message him |
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schbirid |
if it is really urgent, i have it but not sure if i may share it |
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midas |
Picking him up for meeting |
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schbirid |
arkiver: you in contact with joepie atm? |
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SketchCow |
On my way to thing |
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SketchCow |
Good luck kids |
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xmc |
i hope you have an exciting talk |
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JesseW |
"Introducing Quizes, Contents and Spiders." from https://archive.org/stream/creativecomputing-1984-04/Creative_Computing_v10_n04_1984_Apr#page/n79/mode/1up |
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JesseW |
Because all quizzes are better with spiders... :-) |
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HCross |
Anyone got a link to SketchCow's stream? |
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JesseW |
HCross: the live stream appears to be delayed by some hours. |
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HCross |
ah |
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JesseW |
it is currently "live streaming" the previous panel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw7SqY4BWKk |
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JesseW |
which is interesting enough, but not SketchCow. :-) |
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JesseW |
http://impakt.nl/festival/2015-festival/schedule/memory-of-technology/memory-of-technology-x-future/ |
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HCross |
not quite "live" |
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JesseW |
not exactly, no. :-) |
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swebb sets mode: +o aaaaaaaaa |
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HCross |
JesseW, its live now. "And blank usually means fuck off" Sketch Cow 2015 |
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JesseW |
? |
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JesseW |
link? |
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achip |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNuatsqF9GY |
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JesseW |
humph. |
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JesseW |
sorry I missed this one. |
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JesseW |
missed the first part |
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HCross |
JesseW, you can rewind |
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JesseW |
ah, neat |
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aaaaaaaaa |
finally, I've been looking at "Please stand by for 10+ minutes" |
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aaaaaaaaa |
err, "please stand by" for 10+ minutes |
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myself |
Is there any archival value to having the *actual audio* of 80s-era data casettes? Or just get the encoded bits and call it good? |
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JesseW |
myself: what do you mean "actual audio"? The physical object? |
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myself |
JesseW: like, digitize it into wav/flac/mp3/whatever? Or don't save the modulated form and only save the demodulated data? |
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swebb sets mode: +o aaaaaaaaa |
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* |
JesseW /topic Archive Team: After Five Years, You'd Think We'd Know What We're Doing | <SketchCow> Porn? YEP! |
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aaaaaaaaa |
isn't it six years now? |
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