[00:07] *** BlueMaxim has joined #archiveteam-bs [00:14] *** Coderjoe has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [00:24] *** Coderjoe has joined #archiveteam-bs [00:27] Do You Know This Person Outside of Facebook? [00:27] Friend requests are for connecting with people you know well, like classmates, friends, family and coworkers. Please don’t send this friend request unless you know this person personally. [00:52] [23:36] joepie91: "Please, don't re-use the same password to «fool» the robot while restoring your password...several people have done that" arrrrgh [00:52] ? [00:57] it's a quotation from the github thing about credentials getting commited to public repos [00:57] :P [01:13] oh [01:13] lol [01:13] I missed that [01:13] (I'd only read the draft version, before it was published0 [01:13] )* [01:14] *** nickname has joined #archiveteam-bs [01:24] *** bwn_ has joined #archiveteam-bs [01:26] *** yipdw has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [01:27] *** yipdw has joined #archiveteam-bs [01:28] *** xXx_ndidd has joined #archiveteam-bs [01:28] *** ndiddy has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [01:30] *** bwn has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [01:31] CatButts, http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/247144 [01:31] not sure if you've seen this [01:32] *** bwn__ has joined #archiveteam-bs [01:37] *** bwn_ has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [01:43] nickname: ok :P [01:43] *** sag47 has joined #archiveteam-bs [01:43] I attempted connecting via irssi. [01:43] There doesn't seem to be an IRC client endpoint for chat.efnet.org [01:45] youtify was a music player that would take youtube videos, soundcloud and some other one (I forget) and play them in a nice UI [01:45] The repo is still there, but the hosted version is gone [01:45] this? https://github.com/youtify/youtify [01:45] yes [01:45] Okay... so what does that have to do with spotify? [01:45] it's easy to download from youtube or soundcloud. [01:46] It PLAYS music [01:46] ummm so does Spotify [01:46] it's downloading that I'm talking about [01:46] Spotify uses DRM to protect their streams [01:46] and searches it and lets you make multi-service platform playlists [01:47] youtube streams are free, all you need is youtube-dl.org [01:47] Right [01:47] That's my point [01:47] youtify doesn't work on DRM enabled content. [01:47] I think it may have supported pandora [01:47] Okaaaay, so why bother? Just download the youtube videos, soundcloud tracks, pandora tracks, etc. and stick them in a playlist locally [01:47] Please hold, I have to connect and disconnect [01:47] *** nickname has left [01:48] And for downloading non-DRM streams it could be used. But so could firebug in Firefox or web developer tools in chrome. See the network tab when playing videos or music. [01:48] *** nickname has joined #archiveteam-bs [01:48] back [01:48] resend: And for downloading non-DRM streams it could be used. But so could firebug in Firefox or web developer tools in chrome. See the network tab when playing videos or music. [01:48] What did I miss [01:48] youtube-dl is great [01:48] * joepie91 is lost [01:48] resend: Okaaaay, so why bother? Just download the youtube videos, soundcloud tracks, pandora tracks, etc. and stick them in a playlist locally [01:48] Those are easy to download [01:48] Disk space and time [01:49] what is the point of this discussion again? [01:49] Why download it when its right there? [01:49] (serious question) [01:49] joepie91: we started this conversation in #archiveteam and moved it here. [01:49] Oh, so it's just a playlist maker [01:49] ahh. [01:49] It plays music from YT, Soundcloud, and Pandora? (I think) [01:49] sag47: FYI, peerflix is what popcorn time uses [01:49] for streaming... (hahahahaha) [01:49] Have to let things buffer with streaming [01:50] unless you've got fast internet [01:50] anyhow. [01:50] if you miss youtify [01:50] just set it up/ [01:50] Peerflix: The backbone of piracy since 2014 [01:50] ?* [01:50] Seems popcorntime is down. [01:50] yes [01:50] First I've heard of it. [01:50] It's been dead since YTS/YIFY diead [01:50] *died [01:50] In other words, streaming is completely useless for me [01:50] well [01:50] semi-dead [01:50] Depends on what type of movies you stream. [01:50] torrent search still works absolutely fine [01:50] as does the rest of popcorn time [01:50] If you stream open movie projects then you're good. [01:50] just not the fancy gallery [01:50] but the Spotify downloader is useful for me. [01:50] (hence my suggestion of blender foundation movies) [01:51] Given that Spotify has a lot of music that youtube, soundcloud, torrents, etc. don't have [01:51] sag47: I honestly doubt that anybody here really cares about leggality [01:51] Downloading is for those who have 5TB SSDS, streaming is for those with 250GB laptops that can't hold even an iso [01:51] legality* [01:51] I have a 256GB laptop [01:51] Maybe not, but I generally do. A personal choice, really. :) [01:51] (and several TBs of external hard drives) [01:51] also, 250GB? come on [01:51] I ran on a 34GB HDD [01:51] for months [01:51] My previous laptop was 30gb [01:52] I have a 12TB data store that I use for projects. [01:52] Oh I DL music, only when I like it and it is (usually) free [01:52] Though I recently moved so it's out of my reach in storage ;.; [01:52] * joepie91 just downloads torrents in streaming mode [01:52] * nickname sits in corner with 1tb usb drive [01:52] * joepie91 looks at 4TB USB3 drive [01:52] Yeah but if I can't reach it; it basically doesn't exist :-/ [01:53] Well, a lot of the music I want isn't available through MP3 download sites, YouTube, torrents, Usenet, etc. [01:53] rutracker! [01:53] joepie91, to me? [01:53] (I know, rutracker isn't complete) [01:53] sshhh usenet [01:53] kyan: half-seriously, yes [01:53] rutracker has a ton of stuff that's hard to find elsewhere [01:53] Yeah, I use it for a lot of things [01:53] What's rutracker? [01:53] Ah a site [01:53] This is IRC! Everything is logged [01:53] sag47: "private" Russian music torrent site [01:53] *** JesseW has joined #archiveteam-bs [01:53] but I'm talking about the hard to find stuff [01:53] where with "private" I mean you need to register an account [01:53] lol [01:54] xD [01:54] no ratios or any of that dumb crap [01:54] joepie91, they've gone fairly public [01:54] oh, they have been for years [01:54] magnet links are available without registtration now [01:54] really? [01:54] how so? [01:54] yep [01:54] Anybody connected to chat.efnet.org using a chat client other than the web? I'd like to use irssi but don't know the domain/port of the IRC server. [01:54] I mean, I know that they've been having censorship drills [01:54] Please hold, I have to connect and disconnect [01:54] so maybe they just went "fuck it, in the crosshairs now anyway" [01:54] *** nickname has left [01:55] *** nickname has joined #archiveteam-bs [01:55] back [01:55] What occured? [01:55] joepie91: example: http://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3890927 [01:55] sag47: look on the efnet site [01:55] Why DC nickname? [01:55] *occurred [01:55] interesting [01:55] Also there's a massive torrent of all their torrents out now [01:56] so if you want to set up your own rutracker [01:56] META TORRENTS [01:56] ha [01:56] fat chance [01:56] are the best [01:56] sag47: what continent? [01:56] US, I'm looking at their site now. err North America [01:56] https://archive.org/details/4F059E20CDA1306BF48F1337F23C89FC452A7040 has them all [01:57] .title http://www.zdnet.com/article/if-you-have-nothing-to-hide-heres-where-to-send-your-passwords/ [01:57] joepie91: If you have 'nothing to hide', here's where to send your passwords | ZDNet [01:57] Archive.org: Hiding piracy with educational material since ???? [01:57] irc.choppa.net on 9999 seems pretty stable and supports ssl [01:58] *choopa [01:58] yeah, oops [01:58] choopa choppa / hipaa hippa [01:58] Hippo [01:58] *** sag47_irs has joined #archiveteam-bs [01:59] welcome [01:59] yay [01:59] I connected via irc.efnet.pl [01:59] python booleans [01:59] kyan: excellent. the torrent for that crashed my client... [01:59] what client? [01:59] joepie91: are you being sarcastic? [01:59] :P [01:59] qBittorrent. [01:59] no [01:59] lol [01:59] Oh okay [02:00] excellent, then, because you can download over http? [02:00] crap [02:00] no wait really, what client? [02:00] running out of space again.. [02:00] nickname: qBittorrent... [02:00] That's a good client [02:00] * joepie91 looks for stuff to clean up [02:00] Huh, but it's crashy with big torrents? [02:01] Not for me then... [02:01] joepie91: if you're on Windows you could use something like ccleaner. [02:01] no, just this one torrent [02:01] but it works now [02:01] * kyan has a quarter-terabyte torrent running now... [02:01] sag47_irs: not on Windows, and I strongly doubt that CCleaner would matter here even in the slightest. [02:01] It's no fancy command line ultimate customization client, but its no uTorrent [02:01] Linux? [02:01] yes. [02:01] Distro? [02:01] openSUSE [02:02] y u no point linux [02:02] Nice, I liked it when I used it. Though, I had a hard time with yast at times. [02:02] *Why *you *don't you use *? [02:02] "Download CCleaner for free - the world's leading PC Cleaner and Optimization Tool." HAHAHA yep, it'll Optimize your computer for being in a botnet, I'll bet [02:02] What is yast? [02:02] kyan: CCleaner is (or at least, was) legitimate software [02:02] yast is the package manager, and I do use Linux. [02:02] kyan: but it's not going to help here [02:03] It's still legit. [02:03] But apt-get is fine [02:03] Along with decrapifier and a number of other softwares. [02:03] A trialware computer cleaner? No chance I'm installing that [02:03] (not that I'm on Windows anyway) [02:03] It's not that bad... [02:03] trialware? [02:03] Some of them you have to be careful about install options, though. Or just use Linux ;) [02:03] *** VADemon has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [02:03] ... wow, okay then [02:03] so apparently ccleaner is no longer freeware [02:03] well, fuck that [02:04] You can still get copies from filehippo. [02:04] https://www.piriform.com/ccleaner [02:04] Of older freeware versions. [02:04] they have both [02:04] Bleachbit is the only thing I'll use [02:04] yes, ie. not freeware [02:04] I'm stuck on the ugly, horrible, disgusting, bug-ridden, backdoor-trodden, backlash-starting, privacy-hole-covered, Windows [euphemism-ing] 10 [02:05] Libre, and works on Windows and Linux [02:05] brb connecting and disconnecting [02:05] *** nickname has left [02:05] *** nickname has joined #archiveteam-bs [02:05] wtf is nickname doing [02:05] nickname: wtf are you doing [02:05] lol [02:05] I use web chat, and it doesn't auto scroll for new messages and thus my replies are delayed [02:05] kyan: libre link? [02:05] nickname: so, don't use webchat? [02:05] * sag47_irs curious [02:05] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BleachBit [02:05] LibreOffice [02:05] is greater then [02:05] OpenOffice [02:05] * joepie91 stares [02:05] ...wut? [02:06] I mean, it is, but... [02:06] nickname: this doesn't really have anything to do with the topic at hand.. [02:06] yeah i know sorry [02:06] I think I'm getting confused haha [02:06] Then again, this is -bs [02:06] Now we need #archiveteam-bs-bs [02:06] any of you guys/gals develop software? [02:07] yes. [02:07] We're clogging the waste tube... [02:07] somewhat [02:07] free software or just at work? [02:07] I often hack things together for myself [02:07] stick em on github [02:07] or both :) [02:07] Yeah, I do a lot of that. [02:07] I throw html in a blender [02:07] sag47_irs: both - I only develop open-source software, whether paid or unpaid [02:07] but they're not exactly professionally done, given that I'm largely self-taught at programming [02:07] That's pretty nice. [02:08] blah. I need more storage space.. [02:08] A friend of mine works for Canonical. They're 99% open source. [02:08] * joepie91 considers whether he really needs 208 gigs of porn [02:08] I am about 50% open/closed. [02:08] sag47_irs: meh, Canonical. [02:08] My stuff is licensed under the NGPL (Not A G-you-know-what License) [02:08] I'd rather be 100% open. [02:08] don't remind me of zeitgeist [02:08] * nickname shudders [02:08] nickname: wut? [02:08] Gotta pay bills. [02:09] sag47_irs: the two are not mutually exclusive [02:09] joepie91: better watch it again to be sure. See you in a few days. [02:09] I agree. [02:09] Zeitgeist is the spyware of sorts in ubuntu, which is made canonical [02:09] *made by [02:09] aaaaaaaaa: lol [02:09] However, not all companies embrace it and I'm not in to free lancing. [02:09] brb [02:09] *** nickname has left [02:09] zeitgeist is not exactly spyware [02:09] as such [02:09] *** nickname has joined #archiveteam-bs [02:09] .... [02:09] joepie91, you only work on open source, or libre software? http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.en.html [02:09] nickname: please just get a proper client, this is starting to get somewhat irritating [02:09] no [02:10] yes [02:10] I am not going to repeat everything every 5 minutes [02:10] nickname: you on Linux or Mac? [02:10] Windows :( [02:10] brb [02:10] Pidgin - it's an IRC client. [02:10] kyan: open-source. the GPL is what is missing the point, really. [02:11] brb [02:11] *** nickname has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed) [02:11] Why? What's wrong with the GPL? [02:11] kyan: it forces people to share something rather than to not share something, which is still force - and in the end, it doesn't even accomplish the stated purpose, and only gets in the way of other open-source projects [02:12] kyan: the big parasitic corps can afford to say "whatever" and just use GPL software whether abiding by the license or not [02:12] Maybe... but I think it's important to require sharing stuff [02:12] kyan: but in the meantime open-source projects have the biggest issues merging in third-party code because of license conflicts [02:12] kyan: no, it isn't. [02:12] kyan: it's important to ENCOURAGE sharing stuff. [02:12] which is an entirely different goal that is accomplished through entirely different means [02:13] * sag47_irs finds license convos fascinating [02:13] (I'd really like a license that: requires attribution for derivative works, requires derivative works to be published under the same license, requires the works to be legally copiable freely, and requires the source to be made available when the software is made available as a service) [02:13] the parasitic entities will ignore licenses anyway, so you're not winning anything by requiring sharing under the same license. [02:13] it's the exact same story as for DRM. [02:13] nice on paper, can't work in practice [02:13] Hmm [02:13] Ability to enforce is key to anything on paper. [02:13] The corporations that violate the licenses should be sued into oblivion, obviously [02:13] kyan: and you're thinking of the AGPL, I'm pretty sure. [02:13] kyan: and they won't, because lawsuits cost money. [02:14] Yes, that's what I usually license my software under [02:14] Depends, I like the GPL v2. [02:14] It saved a project (Magical Jelly Bean Software) from being forced into closed source. [02:14] Yes, but I think the government should be in charge of the lawsuits [02:14] sag47_irs: [citation needed] [02:14] kyan: let's not. [02:15] Sure [02:15] kyan: you are aware that the GPL is a legal hack to work around copyright, right? [02:15] http://ekeyfinder.sourceforge.net/index.php?lang=en&page=about [02:15] yep! [02:15] Why not? If the government sued the asses off everyone that violates free software licenses, what's bad about that [02:16] kyan: so how do you think it's going to help to get governments to sue people for infringement? [02:16] kyan: because a government CANNOT sue for free licenses alone [02:16] Recover Keys owner tried to force me to shut down the project but I had full legal rights to keep it up via the GPL v2. [02:16] Why can't it? [02:16] kyan: they would have to sue for ALL infringement [02:16] and now everybody's fucked [02:16] kyan: because you can never get such a law passed [02:16] without infuriating quite literally all of industry [02:16] So? I don't really care if industry's infuriated... [02:16] which means it gets watered down to "all copyright infringement" [02:16] and now everybody is worse off [02:16] ... [02:16] Also, GPL preserves copyrights, that's incorrect. [02:16] kyan: what you care about is irrelevant [02:16] it doesn't decide what laws get passed or how [02:16] The Linux Kernel is licensed under GPL v2 as well. [02:17] And anyway, along with that, I would get rid of all laws preventing copying [02:17] and require that all documents be made public and archived [02:17] sag47_irs: I don't see what the ekeyfinder case has to do with the GPL. [02:17] Linus torvalds attributes success to it (I'll have to look up the interview where he stated it). [02:17] sag47_irs: and the GPL *uses* copyright, it doesn't *preserve* it. [02:17] Also: If it's irrelevant what I care about, then why are we talking? [02:17] The GPL guarantees rights to copy and share (like many licenses). [02:18] kyan: because if you try to get something like this pushed into law, it will get watered down to the point where everybody gets fucked [02:18] I doubt that that this conversation is going to have substantial implications for the state of the world [02:18] I was able to continue hosting the original GPL copies of MJB. [02:18] kyan: can't the same be said about every discussion? [02:18] sag47_irs: this is unrelated to the GPL. [02:18] *** nickname has joined #archiveteam-bs [02:18] Looser license would have opened me up to more risky litigation from Recover Keys. [02:18] sag47_irs: every major open-source license is irrevocable. [02:18] no. [02:18] back [02:18] that is wrong. [02:18] now on ugly mibbit [02:18] Yeah, but your argument is apparently that "if I want something that's impractical, than it's an idea not worth voicing" [02:19] kyan: no. my argument is that if you want something that is only ever going to be implemented in a way that makes things worse, it is not wise to push for it [02:19] Keep in mind I'm not for or against license choices. Just observing the pros/cons. [02:19] Oh boy arguing [02:19] in conversation or otherwise [02:19] Hmmm. [02:19] sag47_irs: yes, and I'm just telling you that the supposed "benefit" you are talking about is in no way exclusive to the GPL or even copyleft licenses in generall [02:19] it is almost a default part of any open-source license [02:19] Why would it only be implemented that way? If the entire governmental system were replaced, then I'd think it would be pretty useful. [02:19] permissive, copyleft, and anything inbetween [02:19] *** bwn__ has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [02:20] And anyway, I think it's perfectly good to argue for things in conversation [02:20] kyan: if the entire governmental system were replaced to the point where industry does not decide the laws, we wouldn't have copyright. [02:20] Best license is NGPL (Not-a-g-you-know-what [Less Then Or Equal To] General Public License) [02:20] Yes, but it is a part of the GPL. [02:20] kyan: thus defeating the point of the discussion AND the purpose of the GPL [02:20] NGPL? no [02:20] Huh? [02:20] But what I don't understand is if all copying is legal, then why would the government give two cares about it suing people over copying? [02:20] Oh sorry [02:20] And the GPL protections afforded me to keep it open. [02:20] sag47_irs: and every other license, which makes it pointless to point at the GPL specifically [02:20] sag47_irs: ANY open-source license would have done so. [02:20] this is not an inherent benefit of the GPL [02:21] I think you're missing the point. Choosing an appropriate license is good for a project. But by saying the GPL is entirely bad is misguided. [02:21] * joepie91 sighs [02:21] No, if we didn't have copyright, in my ideal world, the government would require everything to be published and archived freely, and punish anyone who doesn't do that. [02:21] xyz v3 goes against xyz v3 YAAH YAAH [02:21] sag47_irs: I'm not missing the point. I'm contradicting your points. [02:21] In that situation, the GPL would be completely unnecessary [02:21] sag47_irs: and you are failing to list any benefits of the GPL [02:21] sag47_irs: and the one you did list, ended up being invalid [02:21] How so? I feel we've been in agreement this entire time. [02:21] sag47_irs: if you feel that the GPL is useful for something, then tell me WHAT it is useful for [02:21] don't just tell me that I don't understand [02:22] Legality is weird, deal with it [02:22] kyan: requiring publication is a bad idea. [02:22] Hmm, let me retry then. [02:22] joepie91: Hmm, I disagree [02:22] The GPL has a place as a license where you want to keep your work open and share-able. [02:22] There are other open source licenses that do similar things. [02:22] sag47_irs: it doesn't, because it doesn't work like that in practice. [02:22] And afford similar protections. [02:22] sag47_irs: it's only useful on paper. [02:23] No, the Linux Kernel is a prime example. [02:23] how is it>? [02:23] I'm not trying to convince you to use it. [02:23] that's not an answer to my question. [02:23] I'm just saying I feel it has a place in the world and that I occasionally use it. [02:23] how is the Linux kernel a prime example? [02:23] answer the question instead of just repeating your assertion [02:24] It is a prime example because the sharing attributes of the Linux Kernel propagated the project source into what it is today. [02:24] sag47_irs: can you provide a source for that? [02:24] Anyway, a long time ago, I was pointing out that Spotify is the only free way to get a lot of music (generally the music that most people don't know about or like). That's why it's useful to have a Spotify DRM removal tool for offline listening. [02:24] Look at this license: https://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=8eQNH6fe [02:24] nickname: that's not an open-source license. [02:24] joepie91: https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/COPYING?id=refs/tags/v4.4-rc3 [02:24] it also looks horribly invalid. [02:24] kyan: I'm afraid that train left the station long ago. [02:25] sag47_irs: what about it? [02:25] You asked for a source. [02:25] Yes, but I wanted to finish my rant :P [02:25] What license is it then? [02:25] Are you saying the Linux Kernel is not a successful project? It's success is the prime example. [02:25] sag47_irs: I'm asking for a source for your assertion that the Linux kernel is what it is today because of the license. [02:25] you have not provided such a source. [02:25] s/It's/Its/ [02:25] sag47_irs: no, I am not. I'm saying that you have not proven your assertion that it's because of the license. [02:25] (and frankly, I very strongly doubt that you can) [02:26] how long has this rant been going on [02:26] yeesh [02:26] This conversation is going to cause more effort than it's worth so I'll leave it at that. I'm not interested in a holy war. [02:26] sag47_irs: my point being to not make these kind of assertions unless you can PROVE causation [02:26] it doesn't help anybody [02:26] the waste is really flowing from the pipe [02:26] If you want to understand it better I suggest you research it more. [02:26] and doesn't make you draw correct conclusions [02:26] sag47_irs: bullshit. [02:26] sag47_irs: you make the assertion, you provide the evidence. [02:26] I've done my research and those are the conclusions I've come to. You don't have to trust them. [02:26] sag47_irs: then you have not done your research correctly [02:26] because you've failed to support your assertion [02:26]