| Time |
Nickname |
Message |
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00:11
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00:22
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00:42
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joepie91 |
Spring: it's saving if you try to ensure that no matter what happens, it is not lost. |
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00:42
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joepie91 |
Spring: current availability doesn't change that |
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00:42
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joepie91 |
in fact, when something is not available anymore, that usually means you're too late |
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00:45
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00:45
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00:52
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Spring |
what differentiates the archive from a torrent site then within that definition? |
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00:53
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Spring |
there are countless rare records but I haven't seen them pop up on the archive |
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00:53
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Spring |
on the other hand torrent sites frequently have them |
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00:54
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Spring |
or rather link to them, which is a bit different anyway |
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01:00
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01:01
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01:13
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joepie91 |
Spring: the purpose of the Archive is to ensure that things are preserved, regardless of whether they are (or can be) made publicly visible |
|
01:13
🔗
|
MrRadar |
Spring: As a registered library the IA has special exemptions from normal copyright (for example they can crack games for emulation purposes), though as far as I know that doesn't extend to streaming/offering for download entire copyrighted works without permission |
|
01:13
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Spring: ie. the purpose is preservation over distribution, it just so happens that distribution is a great way to improve preservation |
|
01:14
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|
joepie91 |
Spring: the Archive will also remove public access to things that they receive complaints about, but will not remove the actual data |
|
01:15
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|
joepie91 |
which means that once they go out of copyright (if ever...) access can be offered again, and that if the possibilities for the Archive to provide access change from a legal perspective (eg. further exceptions or laws changing), the same can happen |
|
01:15
🔗
|
joepie91 |
plus, they host the materials, rather than just pointing at them - torrents are not archives |
|
01:15
🔗
|
joepie91 |
in other words, the beter question is "what similarities, if any, do torrent sites and IA have" |
|
01:15
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|
joepie91 |
:p |
|
01:15
🔗
|
joepie91 |
better* |
|
01:16
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|
MrRadar |
Fun fact: the IA will download torrents if you upload a .torrent file |
|
01:16
🔗
|
Spring |
yeah, was more a question about the legality more than anything but it seems there's an entire non-publicly visible archive of works |
|
01:17
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|
JW_work21 |
they equivocate about what happens with the non-public stuff (for good reason, it keeps the lawyers away) |
|
01:17
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Spring: there is |
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01:17
🔗
|
joepie91 |
or well |
|
01:17
🔗
|
joepie91 |
as far as I know anyway |
|
01:17
🔗
|
joepie91 |
lol |
|
01:18
🔗
|
joepie91 |
I'm not an IA employee, so :P |
|
01:19
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|
JW_work21 |
there are levels of visibility. For example, the underlying WARC files for the Wayback Machine are not downloadable, but their exact sizes (and hash values) are available. |
|
01:20
🔗
|
joepie91 |
JW_work21: hm. they are? |
|
01:20
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
yes. for example: |
|
01:21
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
https://archive.org/metadata/26_0_20060618045741_crawl25-c |
|
01:21
🔗
|
joepie91 |
huh. useful |
|
01:21
🔗
|
dashcloud |
joepie91: how else would the Internet Archive census thing work? |
|
01:21
🔗
|
Spring |
do the Archive accept/collect physical media of films, music, etc or are they happier with digitized forms? |
|
01:22
🔗
|
joepie91 |
JW_work21: any way to determine what WARC file a given page on the wayback came from? |
|
01:22
🔗
|
joepie91 |
dashcloud: I haven't looked at it much |
|
01:22
🔗
|
joepie91 |
:p |
|
01:22
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
not yet afaik |
|
01:22
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
there are plans to add that, I think |
|
01:22
🔗
|
joepie91 |
JW_work21: I've had some cases in the past where that would've been useful, even if not providing direct access to the WARC |
|
01:22
🔗
|
joepie91 |
can't recall what it was though |
|
01:23
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Spring: I'd imagine that depends on the quality of the digitized form |
|
01:23
🔗
|
Spring |
as a Blu-Ray for example would be 20-50GB which is fairly huge for just one piece of content |
|
01:23
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
Spring: they greatly prefer digitalized versions (as they are much easier to handle), but will accept physical media also (and the best alternative is to digitalize it yourself, then send them both) |
|
01:23
🔗
|
Spring |
as for archiving purposes I'd assume they'd prefer the best version |
|
01:24
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
dashcloud: the existing census does not include the non-downloadable files. |
|
01:24
🔗
|
joepie91 |
JW_work21: I'd imagine that wouldn't be the case if eg.the digitized version is of poor quality (think compressed to shit with divx) and no ready ability to digitize it better? |
|
01:24
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
my new one (which I *will* upload soon) *does* include them. |
|
01:24
🔗
|
joepie91 |
JW_work21: where physical would be preferable |
|
01:24
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|
dashcloud |
glad to hear that |
|
01:25
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
joepie91: I think I lost the thread of conversation slightly here. Clarify? |
|
01:26
🔗
|
joepie91 |
JW_work21: say that Spring had two versions of a given movie: a poor-quality 320p divx-compressed digital version, and a physical blu-ray version - with no hardware to digitize the blu-ray to a higher-quality format |
|
01:26
🔗
|
joepie91 |
JW_work21: then surely donating the physical copy to IA would be preferred? |
|
01:26
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
regarding wayback WARCs, some of the associated files *are* downloadable, e.g. https://ia801803.us.archive.org/12/items/26_0_20060618045741_crawl25-c/26_0_20060618045741_crawl25-c_symlinks.txt_meta.txt |
|
01:28
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01:29
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
joepie91: I think the order of preference would be: 1) Get someone else to digitalize the blu-ray at higher quality, then donate both the disk and the higher quality one to IA ; 2) Donate both the disk and the lower-quality copy to IA ; 3) Donate just the disk to IA ; 4) Donate just the lower-quality copy. |
|
01:30
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
I'm not sure why anyone would make it down to option 4, though — as if they are willing to donate the disk, uploading a copy of the lower-quality rip should be easy enough. |
|
01:30
🔗
|
joepie91 |
fair enough |
|
01:30
🔗
|
joepie91 |
cc Spring |
|
01:30
🔗
|
Spring |
Must be grind cataloging user-submitted files, but also probably rewarding in its own way. |
|
01:30
🔗
|
joepie91 |
Spring: also, don't worry about space |
|
01:30
🔗
|
joepie91 |
:p |
|
01:31
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
Yeah, 3rd-party cataloging of uploaded files is … very limited, currently. |
|
01:31
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
That's something they are hoping to get to later (and it's still certainly feasible outside of IA's infrastruture, i.e. on Wikipedia or elsewhere). |
|
01:36
🔗
|
kyan |
Whenever i see something about Live365 I think they're talking about Microsoft |
|
01:37
🔗
|
kyan |
sounds like Live.com + Office365 |
|
01:41
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
Among the public information about wayback crawls is what the focused crawls were, e.g. https://archive.org/details/tumblr.com-20120307-002229 |
|
01:41
🔗
|
kyan |
Are there plans to fix the logo display on IA's homepage? The text on either side of the 🏛 , and the big Wayback Machine logo, are both displayed using bitmap graphics |
|
01:41
🔗
|
kyan |
while everything else is vector. |
|
01:43
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
IDK |
|
01:43
🔗
|
JW_work21 |
send a note to info@ |
|
01:45
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
heh, just noticed 'the best of procol harum' compilation omits "A Whiter Shade of Pale" |
|
01:45
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
must not have gone by units sold |
|
01:45
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
(over 10 million singles) |
|
01:47
🔗
|
kyan |
I hope it has "A Salty Dog" on it anyway, that's my favorite song by them |
|
01:47
🔗
|
kyan |
also Conquistador's good |
|
01:47
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
^mine too :D |
|
01:47
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
and you listed my third favorite too |
|
01:48
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
I think #2 might be Good Captain Clack |
|
01:48
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
a bit of an oddity |
|
01:48
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
but I like it a lot |
|
01:49
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
oh, actually, I'd put Quite Rightly So above that |
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01:51
🔗
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01:51
🔗
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kyan |
I just listened to Good Captain Clack. That's certainly different |
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01:52
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
damn, actually I'm conflicted between quite rightly so and shine on brightly |
|
01:52
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
anyway, top 5 for sure. now I feel like the Monty Python spanish inquisition |
|
01:52
🔗
|
kyan |
I don't know either of those :3 |
|
01:52
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
they're from their second album, Shine On Brightly |
|
01:52
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
where do you know Procol Harum from, kyan? |
|
01:52
🔗
|
kyan |
I'm litsening to Quite Rightly So |
|
01:52
🔗
|
kyan |
Got a cd by them somewhere |
|
01:53
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
I was introduced by an aging co-worker where I used to work repairing speakers and stuff |
|
01:53
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
the 'best of' record just got to A Salty Dog :D |
|
01:53
🔗
|
kyan |
Greatest Hits album or something. I don't remember most of the songs on it though, but I remember not really liking A Whiter Shade of Pale |
|
01:53
🔗
|
kyan |
I absolutely love A Salty Dog |
|
01:53
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
AWSOP is okay, but I don't think it deserved the popularity it got. A Salty Dog is magnificent |
|
01:54
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
in a just world that would've been a huge hit |
|
01:54
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
:P |
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01:56
🔗
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02:01
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02:02
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Spring has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
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02:02
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wyatt8740 |
actually, I definitely prefer "Shine on Brightly" to "Quite Rightly So" |
|
02:03
🔗
|
|
Specular is now known as Spring |
|
02:03
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
just had to listen again |
|
02:03
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
:) |
|
02:42
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
'If you do not know what ROBOTS.TXT is and you run a site... excellent. If you do know what it is and you have one, delete it. Regardless, Archive Team will ignore it and we'll delete your complaints, just like you should be deleting ROBOTS.TXT. ' from the wiki |
|
02:42
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
plus several million points |
|
02:43
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
the worst bit of archive.org is how if a domain changes hands the new robots.txt retroactively hides all past results |
|
02:43
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
*crawls |
|
02:44
🔗
|
dxrt |
ridiculous |
|
02:45
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
sometimes its fun to find unlisted pages because they're explicitly listed in a robots.txt |
|
02:46
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
alias wget='wget -e robots=off' |
|
03:07
🔗
|
Spring |
on occasion a site will have an alternate address that IA has crawled, without a robots restriction, but it's rare |
|
03:07
🔗
|
Spring |
usually it doesn't have the same number of pages crawled, either |
|
03:10
🔗
|
Spring |
wyatt8740, Nordstrom had a curious robots.txt last year: http://wayback.archive.org/web/20150227000040/http://shop.nordstrom.com/robots.txt |
|
03:13
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
first I notice that it appears to be interpreted as HTML |
|
03:13
🔗
|
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Spring has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
|
03:13
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
is that the curious bit? |
|
03:13
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
MIME type weirdness? |
|
03:13
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
oh dear god |
|
03:13
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
read the actual robots list |
|
03:14
🔗
|
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03:14
🔗
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wyatt8740 |
spring: ROFL |
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03:15
🔗
|
wyatt8740 |
hard to believe this is real... |
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03:20
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03:21
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03:24
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joepie91 |
uh... lol |
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05:47
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06:03
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06:11
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06:14
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06:14
🔗
|
JesseW |
https://blog.archive.org/2016/02/11/internet-archive-does-windows-hundreds-of-windows-3-1-programs-join-the-collection/ <- awww, that's *my* childhood! cool :-) |
|
06:19
🔗
|
JesseW |
Yay, Glider! https://archive.org/details/win3_Glider40 |
|
06:22
🔗
|
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06:24
🔗
|
JesseW |
And https://archive.org/details/win3_JezzBall ! |
|
06:25
🔗
|
JesseW |
And https://archive.org/details/win3_MileBone ! |
|
06:25
🔗
|
JesseW |
And https://archive.org/details/win3_PipeDr3x ! |
|
06:26
🔗
|
JesseW |
WTF is this: https://archive.org/details/win3_Rod3x |
|
06:26
🔗
|
Spring |
wait, hold up. Glider had a Windows version? |
|
06:27
🔗
|
JesseW |
Apparently :-) |
|
06:27
🔗
|
Spring |
used to play the Mac demo version endlessly :p |
|
06:29
🔗
|
JesseW |
I played it quite a lot too |
|
06:29
🔗
|
JesseW |
and https://archive.org/details/win3_TileTrib ( un-registered version :-) ) |
|
06:30
🔗
|
JesseW |
and https://archive.org/details/win3_Warhead ! |
|
06:36
🔗
|
JesseW |
and https://archive.org/details/win3_BANGBANG |
|
06:37
🔗
|
JesseW |
and Block Breaker : https://archive.org/details/win3_BLCE12 ! |
|
06:40
🔗
|
SketchCow |
Are you... |
|
06:40
🔗
|
SketchCow |
Are you going to post a link to every item in that collection |
|
06:42
🔗
|
JesseW |
Hardly every one -- just the ones I personally played as a child and am delighted to find available. |
|
06:46
🔗
|
JesseW |
and there's one particular one I'm looking for, but I only remember what it /looked/ like, not the title ... |
|
06:47
🔗
|
midas |
and it looked like? |
|
06:47
🔗
|
JesseW |
https://archive.org/details/win3_COLUMNS <- I reimplemented this in Python as one of my earliest programming efforts. It was a PITA to get the combining logic right. |
|
06:48
🔗
|
JesseW |
midas: It was a grid of squares, with passageways between. You were a spaceship, firing on ... something else. |
|
06:48
🔗
|
JesseW |
Pretty plain graphics. |
|
06:48
🔗
|
JesseW |
But very memorable, at least to me. |
|
06:56
🔗
|
JesseW |
and good old https://archive.org/details/win3_LANDER |
|
07:03
🔗
|
JesseW |
This is really impressive -- https://archive.org/details/win3_STARS_ -- this is *very* complex game, and I bet there is still an active player community around it. |
|
07:03
🔗
|
* |
ersi glares |
|
07:03
🔗
|
JesseW |
ersi: Are you glaring at me? |
|
07:04
🔗
|
* |
ersi glares more intensively |
|
07:04
🔗
|
* |
JesseW still can't tell what direction ersi is glaring in |
|
07:06
🔗
|
Spring |
can't get these to run in-browser |
|
07:06
🔗
|
JesseW |
Spring: what browser, what OS? |
|
07:07
🔗
|
Spring |
Firefox v46 (Dev), Windows 8.1 |
|
07:08
🔗
|
Spring |
it gets to the DosBox logo with the red background, then black. |
|
07:08
🔗
|
JesseW |
Hm. Works for me on Debian wheezy, with Iceweasel (i.e. Firefox) 38.6 |
|
07:09
🔗
|
Spring |
does it use any third party cookies? |
|
07:09
🔗
|
JesseW |
I don't think so. |
|
07:09
🔗
|
JesseW |
How much memory do you have? |
|
07:09
🔗
|
Spring |
8GB |
|
07:09
🔗
|
JesseW |
eh, should be plenty. |
|
07:09
🔗
|
JesseW |
<shrug> IDK |
|
07:10
🔗
|
JesseW |
https://archive.org/details/win3_WINROLL <- should probably be in the productivity collection, not games |
|
07:12
🔗
|
JesseW |
Wow, the one I was thinking of ****IS**** there: https://archive.org/details/win3_AFORCE |
|
07:13
🔗
|
Spring |
woah, so much spam in the recent categories. |
|
07:13
🔗
|
* |
Spring hopes IA have a decent spam filter |
|
07:13
🔗
|
JesseW |
yeah, it's a constant problem |
|
07:14
🔗
|
Spring |
there should be like a swipe left/right queue for mods :p |
|
07:19
🔗
|
JesseW |
there would have to be more mods first :-) |
|
07:19
🔗
|
JesseW |
they have a beta program to provide a flagging button |
|
07:30
🔗
|
Spring |
tried the button, is there any visual feedback to show it's been flagged? |
|
07:30
🔗
|
JesseW |
I don't think so. |
|
07:30
🔗
|
vitzli |
it stays red |
|
07:30
🔗
|
JesseW |
And if you could, please also email in the URLs you tag with it. |
|
07:30
🔗
|
JesseW |
to info@archive |
|
07:31
🔗
|
Spring |
hmm, not staying red here. |
|
07:32
🔗
|
Spring |
got it working now, disabled uBlock |
|
07:32
🔗
|
Spring |
JesseW, how would I go about doing that? |
|
07:32
🔗
|
JesseW |
the button or the programs? |
|
07:33
🔗
|
JesseW |
Spring: just send an email to info@archive.org listing the URLs of the spam items you found. |
|
07:33
🔗
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Spring |
I see. Just flagging some 'Step By Step Investment And Business: Learn, Invest And Make Money!' type images |
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JesseW |
Yeah, there are lots |
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Spring |
they make it somewhat easier by all including blue text in the thumbnails :) |
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Spring |
at least this batch |
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Spring |
almost without exception they feature a 'LEARN MORE' text and button graphic |
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Spring |
can't believe I flagged over 150 results, but every little bit helps |
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PurpleSym |
SketchCow: Is there a way to contribute data to the Malware/Win3.1 archives? |
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etiquetteYes |
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HCross |
NewsBuddy is back people! |
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vitzli |
yay, awesome, thank you! |
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schbirid |
called it http://www.factmag.com/2016/02/11/soundcloud-financial-report-44m-losses/ |
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ersi |
Ouch |
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ersi |
Also.. lol, >40% increase in salary |
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schbirid |
"about 12 hours worth of audio were being uploaded every minute" |
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ersi |
wonder how many €/hour are spent |
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schbirid |
:> |
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arkiver3 |
Gravitational waves detected!! |
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MrRadar |
Yay! (I don't know what those are...) |
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schbirid |
proof that your mom exists |
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vitzli |
and it's her farts |
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schbirid |
yumm, soundcloud has country restrictions |
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hawc145 |
FYI: OVH having technical issues |
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xmc |
ersi: that's €6200 per hour of company, or about 8.5 eur spent per hour of audio uploaded |
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HCross |
Can whoever is running newsbuddy atm please identify themselves, otherwise I am going to kick the nick out of both the channels |
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arkiver |
schbirid: Gravitational waves probably don't prove MrRadar's mom exists |
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arkiver |
I basically proves Einstein was right |
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arkiver |
and it gives a great tool or feature astronomical esearch |
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arkiver |
If the technology of detecting gravitational waves improves it's possible to easily detect object which can't be seen by electromagnic radiation |
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arkiver |
For example dark matter |
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JW_work2 |
How did this spammer get through? Did they look up the secret word, or what? http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=User:Samayanews&curid=6434&action=history |
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xmc |
maybe they made an account before we added antispam |
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Sanqui |
nope |
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Sanqui |
http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Special:Log/Samayanews |
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xmc |
hm, indeed |
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JW_work2 |
I mean, it's probably a site we want to dump into Newsgrabber, but... |
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HCross |
yes. JW_work2 can you do a PR on it? |
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JW_work2 |
eventually, sure |
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nickname_ |
How would you use youtube-dl to download json info from soundcloud? |
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joepie91 |
nickname_: moment |
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joepie91 |
nickname_: alias ytdl="youtube-dl --title --continue --retries 4 --write-info-json --write-description --write-thumbnail --write-annotations --all-subs --ignore-errors --merge-output-format mkv -f 'bestvideo+bestaudio/best' $1" |
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joepie91 |
I *think* that would cover soundcloud json stuff also |
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joepie91 |
but not sure |
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joepie91 |
(because of --write-info-json) |
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joepie91 |
that's my general youtube-dl alias to get the highest-quality version of All The Things |
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nickname_ |
too bad windows doesn't have alias... |
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nickname_ |
But thank you |
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joepie91 |
nickname_: you can just use the flags manually, I literally just copypasted it out of my bashrc |
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joepie91 |
:p |
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MrRadar |
nickname_: Use a bat file instead |
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nickname_ |
ik |
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nickname_ |
(I know.) |
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MrRadar |
Put the command followed by %* which will expand to all of the arguments to the batch file |
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nickname_ |
Like this youtube-dl --write-info-json --write-description --write-thumbnail --add-metadata %* |
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MrRadar |
Yeah |
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MrRadar |
Then you can pass additional parameters to the batch file (like the URL to download) |
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MrRadar |
And they'll pass through to youtube-dl |
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joepie91 |
mind that when using youtube-dl for *video* sites, you need the format specifier in my line above |
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joepie91 |
"best" only looks for the best combined format, which is not necessarily the best format you can obtain |
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joepie91 |
for some video sites (eg. youtube) there's often separate video and audio tracks that are both higher quality than the highest-quality combined |
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joepie91 |
version |
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nickname_ |
Okay |
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joepie91 |
the /best is to fallback for sites that don't have separate audio/video tracks |
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joepie91 |
the --merge-output-format is generally needed to deal with those separate tracks, but requires ffmpeg/libav P |
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joepie91 |
:P* |
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nickname_ |
I'll start uploading to archive.org |
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joepie91 |
otherwise it'll just dump a separate audio and video file in your dir |
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nickname_ |
I'm using yt-dl for soundcloud |
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MrRadar |
joepie91: At least in recent versions it will automatically merge them (as long as you have ffmpeg or libav) |
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MrRadar |
Without a separate parameter |
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MrRadar |
If the formats are both MPEG or both WebM formats it will merge them to .mp4 or .webm; otherwise it merged to .mkv |
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joepie91 |
MrRadar: oh, it didn't do that before, so not sure |
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arkiver |
IA is now down to 180 TB |
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joepie91 |
...? |
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joepie91 |
arkiver: freespace? |
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arkiver |
yeah |
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arkiver |
almost out |
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arkiver |
last time they added 2.6 PB, so I hope for something like that again |
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HCross |
oops |
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nickname_ |
Here's a graph of IA's used space |
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nickname_ |
https://archive.org/~tracey/mrtg/du.html |
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nickname_ |
Here's a graph of IA's free space: https://archive.org/~tracey/mrtg/df.html |
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JW_work21 |
what's the difference between FILL and FILLNEW? |
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nickname_ |
I don't know...? |
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ersi |
here's a picture of a donut: http://www.withsprinklesontop.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/DSC_0406x900.jpg |
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swebb |
That looks like a really good donut. |
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ersi |
it does |
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JW_work21 |
Everything is better with a picture of a donut |
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swebb |
https://media.riffsy.com/images/4585114d8e85229117ca3d5b4f4da7a9/raw |
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xmc |
my morning was improved by the presence of a donut |
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swebb |
That free space graph looks like my home free space graph, but with much larger numbers. :) |
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xmc |
"shit, disk is full, time to delete some things" |
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swebb |
Yea, I know. |
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swebb |
or "shit, how much are new drives at best buy?" |
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swebb |
I missed out on that $90 5TB drive deal. :( |
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joepie91 |
or "shit, out of drive bays" |
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swebb |
out of drive bays, out of usb ports, ... |
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JW_work21 |
Hm, I don't seem to be able to save pages at archive.org with the /save/ now feature… strange. |
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JW_work21 |
It'd probably be nice if someone grabbed all the pages and graphs under http://archive.org/~tracey/mrtg/ on a, say daily (or even hourly) basis, and just kept all of them. Could be nice historical/trend data. |
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