#archiveteam-bs 2016-02-13,Sat

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02:07 🔗 snape Haven't tried it yet, but Backblaze sent an email today promoting FUSE support for B2, if anyone's interested: https://github.com/sondree/b2_fuse Looks very much beta, but...
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02:29 🔗 Sk1d is the current load on the FOS server better?
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02:34 🔗 kyan Sk1d, I don't think so, since ArchiveBot has 17 completed jobs stuck waiting to be uploaded :P
02:35 🔗 kyan unless you mean the load going into it, in which case I have no idea :3
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02:36 🔗 Sk1d yeah im currently waiting to upload som finished fotolog jobs since a couple of hours (cant get a rsync)
02:40 🔗 yipdw so I decided to move some services to docker containers with the idea that it'd reduce my attack surface, and then a docker-engine update came in, shut down all containers, and now they won't start again due to some aufs shit
02:40 🔗 yipdw who needs attackers when system updates will do the job
02:40 🔗 xmc hahahah
02:41 🔗 joepie91 lol
02:41 🔗 joepie91 yipdw: sidenote: Docker does not provide secure isolation
02:41 🔗 joepie91 nor is it meant to
02:41 🔗 joepie91 it's for isolating shit from accidental conflict
02:41 🔗 yipdw well even in that case
02:41 🔗 yipdw who needs accidental conflicts when system updates will do the job
02:41 🔗 joepie91 hehe
02:41 🔗 joepie91 well you did kind of ask for it...
02:41 🔗 joepie91 :P
02:42 🔗 joepie91 yipdw: ref http://iops.io/blog/docker-hype/
02:42 🔗 yipdw it works fine for me as a dev tool, I like it when I have to install a gazillion things so I can run a css compressor or whatever
02:43 🔗 yipdw and now somehow bitlbee is disconnecting at regular intervals and argh goddamnit I should never have updated anything adkjfjfsjf
02:43 🔗 joepie91 I find that this issue is basically non-existent in Node-land
02:43 🔗 joepie91 well
02:43 🔗 joepie91 not the installing a gazillion things
02:43 🔗 joepie91 but the issues that usually result from it
02:44 🔗 joepie91 (you still install a gazillion things, you just don't have to deal with a gazillion resulting problems)
02:44 🔗 phuzion `pip -r requirements.txt` aka lmao you just broke 9 things on that system
02:45 🔗 joepie91 yes, I don't like pip
02:45 🔗 joepie91 precisely for that reason
02:45 🔗 yipdw feh
02:45 🔗 * yipdw goes to go cook something
02:45 🔗 joepie91 there's something worse though
02:45 🔗 yipdw at least my stove won't fuck up if I put a new fucking pan on it
02:45 🔗 joepie91 distros trying to package Node.js modules as distro packages....
02:45 🔗 * joepie91 sighs
02:46 🔗 yipdw NOT UNTIL THEY PUT A CHIP IN THE BURNER
02:46 🔗 joepie91 YES LET'S SHOEHORN A NESTED DEPENDENCY MODEL INTO A FLAT DEPENDENCY MODEL, I AM SURE THAT THAT WILL TURN OUT WELL
02:46 🔗 phuzion the new RFID skillet by Martha Stewart
02:46 🔗 joepie91 lol
02:47 🔗 phuzion *only pairs with certain stovetops, universal stovetop adapter can be purchased for $199.95
02:47 🔗 phuzion DRM for your skillet.
02:47 🔗 joepie91 phuzion: the verification server for the stovetop adapter will be taken down after 10 years though, because RFID skillet use has dropped too much for it to still be worthtwhile
02:48 🔗 joepie91 so now all remaining skillets will cease to work
02:48 🔗 phuzion right?
02:50 🔗 joepie91 I... what the fuck
02:50 🔗 joepie91 this code I am looking at right now
02:50 🔗 joepie91 frontend code adds a 'job' entry to Firebase
02:51 🔗 joepie91 which is then picked up by a 'command delegator' server side
02:51 🔗 joepie91 and pushed to a beanstalk job queue server
02:51 🔗 joepie91 which is then picked up by a job worker
02:51 🔗 joepie91 which-- what the fuck is going on here?
02:53 🔗 joepie91 oh and memcached fits into that picture somewhere as well
02:53 🔗 joepie91 why there are three things doing approximately the same thing, I have no idea
02:54 🔗 vitzli what is Firebase?
02:55 🔗 joepie91 vitzli: trust me, you do not want to know
02:55 🔗 joepie91 vitzli: but I will tell you anyway
02:56 🔗 joepie91 vitzli: basically JSON-storage-as-a-service that is operated by Google, pretends to be a database, and has such mindbogglingly poorly organized documentation that it can take hours to answer a simple question
02:56 🔗 joepie91 vitzli: oh, did I mention that it's designed to have clients talk direcly to it so that you "don't need a backend server"? then you get fun 'security rules' like this: https://github.com/webhook/webhook-server-open/blob/master/security.json
02:56 🔗 yipdw I like that architecture, it's like having bureaucrats push around paper
02:57 🔗 vitzli yay, my eyes bleed
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02:57 🔗 joepie91 vitzli: and if you really want to have brain go kasplode, look at the answers to the question "how do I verify e-mail addresses" here: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17723195/is-there-any-way-to-do-email-confirmation-for-firebase-user-creation-and-or-pass
02:57 🔗 joepie91 because, y'know, for such a common web task, it's clearly a good sign when the answers include such terms as "workaround"
02:57 🔗 * joepie91 face through desk
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02:58 🔗 joepie91 this is like, the peak of irresponsible architecture design in startup fuckery
02:58 🔗 joepie91 you couldn't satirize it better than the original
02:58 🔗 joepie91 okay, </rant>
03:00 🔗 yipdw I got a better one for you
03:00 🔗 yipdw *** Error in `bitlbee': double free or corruption (fasttop): 0x00007f9fc642cf90 ***
03:00 🔗 yipdw done
03:00 🔗 yipdw I dunno why but these sorts of problems in communication software really annoy me
03:00 🔗 vitzli joepie91, so it's Firebase->command delegator->beanstalk->worker, right?
03:01 🔗 joepie91 vitzli: ha, no, if only it were that easy
03:01 🔗 joepie91 vitzli: more like client->Firebase->command delegator->memcached+beanstalk->worker
03:01 🔗 joepie91 vitzli: this is the excuse: https://github.com/webhook/webhook-server-open/blob/master/libs/commandDelegator.js#L3-L8
03:02 🔗 * joepie91 mumbles something about tool choice
03:02 🔗 vitzli maybe they want to replace command delegator part or something
03:02 🔗 joepie91 nope, see the comment
03:02 🔗 vitzli yeah, reading
03:03 🔗 joepie91 it looks to be three iterations of "okay, we've picked a new tool. oh, this one doesn't fully solve the problem either, let's add another..."
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03:03 🔗 yipdw command delegator is an awesome name
03:03 🔗 yipdw the "NO YOU DO IT" object
03:03 🔗 joepie91 hahaha
03:03 🔗 joepie91 I am so tempted to rename it to noYouDoIt now
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03:04 🔗 yipdw I mean I assume this code had a good reason to come into existence, but the name is pretty good
03:06 🔗 joepie91 yipdw: it gets better: https://github.com/webhook/webhook-server-open/blob/master/libs/commandDelegator.js#L128
03:06 🔗 joepie91 ( https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=noneya )
03:07 🔗 yipdw oh nice
03:07 🔗 joepie91 (I'm slightly amused, actually - this code isn't -that- bad, it just has some very very questionable architectural choices0
03:07 🔗 joepie91 )*
03:08 🔗 joepie91 (I still don't understand exactly what memcached is supposed to prevent...)
03:10 🔗 joepie91 // Make sure identifier is legal memcached string I guess
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03:12 🔗 yipdw on a different note, jackfruit with onion, lime, cumin, and sea salt is pretty awesome
03:15 🔗 kyan that sounds gooood
03:15 🔗 joepie91 yipdw: but does it fit in a Firebase?!
03:15 🔗 joepie91 :P
03:15 🔗 yipdw joepie91: no keep your filthy software out of my damn food
03:15 🔗 snape The matter of sustenance is clearly a hardware problem...
03:16 🔗 joepie91 heh
03:16 🔗 yipdw i'm sure you could fit soylent into a firebase
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03:21 🔗 ndiddy whenever someone mentions soylent it reminds me of this
03:21 🔗 ndiddy http://robrhinehart.com/?p=1331
03:21 🔗 ndiddy it's an insane man's journey to only live on dc through the most retarded means possible
03:24 🔗 yipdw I dunno if I'd call Rhinehart "insane" or "retarded", those have pretty specific meanings
03:24 🔗 yipdw I am not a fan of his worldview though
03:25 🔗 ndiddy he throws away his clothes instead of washing them
03:25 🔗 ndiddy I have not set foot in a grocery store in years. Nevermore will I bumble through endless confusing aisles like a pack-donkey searching for feed while the smell of rotting flesh fills my nostrils and fluorescent lights sear my eyeballs and sappy love songs torture my ears. Grocery shopping is a multisensory living nightmare. There are services that will make someone else do it for me but I cannot in good conscience force
03:25 🔗 ndiddy a fellow soul through this gauntlet.
03:25 🔗 ndiddy that's the most pretentious shit i've ever heard
03:26 🔗 ndiddy "I think it was a bit presumptuous for the architect to assume I wanted a kitchen with my apartment and make me pay for it"
03:30 🔗 snape If he thinks grocery shopping is a multisensory nightmare, all I can say is he should never use public transit in any city anywhere. Ever.
03:30 🔗 joepie91 well, I've given up and opened an issue asking why memcached is even part of the stack
03:32 🔗 ndiddy snape, he doesn't drive a car
03:32 🔗 ndiddy he only uses uber
03:32 🔗 snape Can't in good conscience force people to buy his groceries, but being his personal chauffeur is fine, eh? Hm...
03:34 🔗 ndiddy yeah
03:34 🔗 pikhq And constantly orders clothes hand-made in China.
03:34 🔗 pikhq Rather than doing laundry.
03:35 🔗 ndiddy seems more like he's pushing his carbon footprint onto others rather than actually making an effort to reduce it
03:35 🔗 joepie91 I feel like the guy has the right goals and the right motivation... but missed some crucial bits of logic along the way
03:35 🔗 joepie91 precisely that
03:35 🔗 pikhq Yeah. Some elements of what he does *actually* reduce carbon footprint, but others are at best shuffling it around.
03:35 🔗 joepie91 "Thanks to synthetic fabrics it takes less water to make my clothes than it would to wash them, and I donate my used garments."
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03:36 🔗 pikhq (I'm mostly thinking of his using solar power feeding a lead acid battery and DC powering low-power-use electronics. That actually has an effect!)
03:38 🔗 ndiddy i love how he's above shopping at grocery stores but loves getting custom clothing made at chinese sweatshops
03:39 🔗 snape Or he could just, say, shop at thrift stores, but they can be indecorously stimulating to the fragile unique snowflakes of the world, I suppose...
03:39 🔗 joepie91 ndiddy: to be fair, there's not much clothing that isn't made at chinese sweatshops
03:39 🔗 joepie91 or bangladese(?) sweatshops
03:39 🔗 joepie91 etc
03:39 🔗 pikhq It's the constantly ordering it rather than washing clothes bit that's highly ironic.
03:39 🔗 ndiddy he could buy it at goodwill or something if he wants to minimize his footprint
03:39 🔗 joepie91 sure, just saying that the "sweatshop" argument is a bit weak :)
03:40 🔗 pikhq Especially as you *can* get high efficiency washers that use not much water. :)
03:40 🔗 joepie91 it's a bit like complaining about buying electronics from China - in the end, good luck finding electronics that aren't
03:40 🔗 ndiddy my nes was made in japan
03:40 🔗 joepie91 from the last decade, I mean
03:40 🔗 joepie91 :p
03:41 🔗 joepie91 China has become the factory of the world
03:42 🔗 snape Hey, there's a thriving electronics manufacturing industry in India, and their products sometimes even occasionally work as intended...
03:42 🔗 ndiddy joepie91, my unicomp keyboard was made in the us
03:43 🔗 snape Buckling spring master race
03:43 🔗 ndiddy ^
03:44 🔗 snape To be fair the design is going on, what, thirty years old now, or something.
03:45 🔗 ndiddy so is their equipment
03:45 🔗 ndiddy that's why mine's a bit rough around the edges
03:45 🔗 pikhq I anticipate in the coming years we'll see more electronics manufacturing done outside of China (for reasons similar to why electronics manufacturing shifted to China in the first place).
03:48 🔗 snape Come to think of it, I have an SSD (Silicon Power) that's "made in the USA". All the parts are from Asia, naturally. And the SMART output makes no sense... but go 'murica.
03:49 🔗 joepie91 lol
03:49 🔗 joepie91 also, fun friday evening question
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03:50 🔗 joepie91 why is it that the counterargument to "abolish the patent system" is consistently "but what about medical R&D, that's expensive", even though almost nobody making that argument actually *knows* how much medical R&D costs?
03:50 🔗 joepie91 makes you wonder...
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03:51 🔗 pikhq Even if the patent system made sense for medical R&D... Wouldn't that just be an argument to restrict its scope to the areas where it does make sense?
03:52 🔗 joepie91 pikhq: that's precisely the discussion not to have
03:52 🔗 pikhq Hmm?
03:52 🔗 joepie91 (see also: how the copyright and patent systems got so corrupted in the first place)
03:53 🔗 joepie91 scope creep.
03:53 🔗 joepie91 you give some people magical hammers, suddenly everybody wants magical hammers, for three times as long
03:53 🔗 pikhq Mind you, I think the current patent system is so fundamentally busted that even *if* the underlying idea makes sense the only thing that's sane to do with it is toss it in the bin.
03:53 🔗 joepie91 pikhq: sure, but the point being - why is medical R&D singled out?
03:54 🔗 joepie91 why do you consider it a proposition valid-sounding enough to even consider assuming it to be true?
03:54 🔗 joepie91 what made our collective consciousness contain "medical R&D is expensive" even though nobody has the data?
03:54 🔗 joepie91 where does this come from?
03:54 🔗 pikhq Ah. Because pharm companies have spent a lot of effort spreading that meme.
03:54 🔗 joepie91 but how? where?
03:55 🔗 pikhq Hmm.
03:55 🔗 joepie91 pikhq: see, that's the interesting meta-question
03:55 🔗 snape Rather conveniently, in pretty much every medical patent-infringement lawsuit, I expect...
03:55 🔗 joepie91 pikhq: because what you've just said is also more and more commonly held a belief
03:56 🔗 joepie91 ie. it is penetrating the collective consciousness the same way "medical R&D is expensive" has
03:56 🔗 joepie91 but... similarly, who actually knows where and how "pharma companies spent a lot of effort spreading that meme"?
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03:56 🔗 pikhq "Clearly" the aliens are behind it. (but on a more serious note, I'm curious where that meme came from in the first place? It seems odd, now that I think about it and can't think of any particular evidence in favor of it.)
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03:57 🔗 joepie91 pikhq: it's been one I've been wondering about for a while, and nobody seems to really know
03:58 🔗 joepie91 either of those two, by the way
03:58 🔗 pikhq Probably have a better time thinking about it if I wasn't computing through a migraine right now.
03:58 🔗 joepie91 hehe
03:59 🔗 joepie91 on a more pragmatic note - the often overlooked point in the "medical R&D is expensive" argument, is that abolishing patents will also make collaboration possible (and even desirable, logical) and thus *reduce* those very R&D costs
04:00 🔗 joepie91 that are supposedly the reason for its existence
04:00 🔗 snape Mm, I think you're overlooking the profit-by-exclusivity argument implicit there.
04:01 🔗 pikhq snape: Oh, we know it's there, we just don't care because that's an unconvincing one.
04:02 🔗 joepie91 lol
04:02 🔗 joepie91 also, blah, hackerspace opening in 9 hours
04:02 🔗 joepie91 I should probably start thinking about sleep and such trivialities
04:03 🔗 joepie91 on which note, if anybody here is in NL.... https://www.pixelbar.nl/2016/01/21/join-our-opening/
04:03 🔗 pikhq Alas, NL is a continent away.
04:09 🔗 joepie91 fuckssake
04:10 🔗 joepie91 railroad maintenance works
04:10 🔗 joepie91 why
04:10 🔗 joepie91 :|
04:10 🔗 joepie91 the new site of the Dutch railways is snazzy and all: http://www.ns.nl/reisplanner/#/?vertrek=Dordrecht&vertrektype=treinstation&aankomst=Rotterdam%20Blaak&aankomsttype=treinstation&tijd=2016-02-13T13:30&type=aankomst&onbeperktReizen=false
04:10 🔗 joepie91 but it's not really clear whether those trains will all be running or not
04:11 🔗 joepie91 blah whatever
04:11 🔗 joepie91 let's just hope that they will
04:13 🔗 joepie91 night
04:14 🔗 vitzli goodnight joepie91
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10:04 🔗 yipdw I had no idea https://github.com/fog/fog/tree/master/lib/fog/internet_archive
10:04 🔗 yipdw this seems kinda cool
10:05 🔗 yipdw functionally I don't know if it's better than ia upload but having a layer that abstracts e.g. AWS, IA, and Azure is kinda fun
10:05 🔗 yipdw well not Azure, maybe other clouds
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10:53 🔗 joepie91 clowns*
11:07 🔗 joepie91 "The uTorrent team has introduced a new ad-free version of the popular file-sharing client. Users can now buy a yearly $4.95 subscription to download the latest torrents without being subjected to ads. The new client is part of an experiment to optimize the user experience."
11:07 🔗 joepie91 "experiment to optimize the user experience"
11:08 🔗 joepie91 oh yes, because making people pay for a thing that they previously got for free to avoid getting ads and malware stuffed in their face, is "optimizing the user experience"
11:08 🔗 joepie91 fuck off
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11:14 🔗 msgctl Hey, I've been wondering whether any of you is archiving Library Genesis. Just how big is it? >100TB?
11:20 🔗 schbirid2 ~20 was a number i once heard
11:20 🔗 SimpBrain there's several sections of it
11:21 🔗 schbirid2 joepie91: paying for piracy \o/
11:21 🔗 SimpBrain just grabbed 0-10000 numbered torrents and they are 35gb
11:22 🔗 schbirid2 comics are probably huge
11:22 🔗 SimpBrain and there's 1.4million books in 1 section
11:22 🔗 SimpBrain and fiction is 1.545.000
11:23 🔗 schbirid2 check their forums maybe for mirroring info
11:23 🔗 schbirid2 or just get all torrents and parse their metadata
11:26 🔗 joepie91 schbirid2: that too, but I just get sick of marketers abusing the term/concept "user experience" to mean "how to force people into doing the thing we want them to do because it benefits us"
11:28 🔗 SimpBrain decent usenet will have libgen copy aswell
11:30 🔗 schbirid2 joepie91: A FRIENDLY REMINDER FROM GOOGLE!
11:30 🔗 msgctl I've been thinking about getting all of libgen just for fun. Have you tried Seagate's 8TB shingled disks in raid1 for your archives?
11:31 🔗 msgctl BTW, I'm new to EFnet. Does efnet.xs4all.nl work on your side?
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11:34 🔗 schbirid2 efnet loves to fail
11:35 🔗 SimpBrain better to use the round robin address
11:35 🔗 SimpBrain it'll pass you onto a good server
11:36 🔗 SimpBrain irc.efnet.org ?
11:36 🔗 SimpBrain irc.efnet.net
11:38 🔗 msgctl >TLS handshake failed
11:39 🔗 msgctl I don't even.
11:39 🔗 msgctl I'll figure it out later.
11:40 🔗 dxrt Yeah I've found several servers that supposedly support SSL don't actually work
11:40 🔗 dxrt It's a real shitshow the servers
11:42 🔗 joepie91 EFNet: You're Lucky When It Works(tm)
11:44 🔗 HCross Yea. Im thinking of putting newsbuddy in freenode too
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12:08 🔗 arkiver IA is down to 156 TB now
12:08 🔗 arkiver free space ^
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14:07 🔗 arkiver reading https://archive.org/post/1052100/enough-is-enough-thousands-of-worthless-uploads
14:08 🔗 arkiver This Noah 8-? has been around for a long time, always irritating
14:08 🔗 arkiver Doesn't understand what a library is and hates automated uploads
14:09 🔗 arkiver Must love what we do
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14:19 🔗 vitzli library genesis size on January 3, 2016: https://paste.ee/p/mQU1G (total size at least 51 TiB, no data on comics)
14:22 🔗 schbirid2 :O
14:26 🔗 vitzli those numbers are file sizes reported by .torrent files (except of 1 file in r_ section which is a duplicate with 3 less files than its copy). Real size - only admins and mirror ops know
14:27 🔗 SmileyG Kenneth, if you would create a description of your automatic uploading process it would be very helpful.
14:27 🔗 SmileyG Please feel free to imagine any reason for that request. It may be the total destruction of the multiverse or the immediate enlightenment of the all beings with the ability to perceive their surroundings no matter what form their energy is in a present. I have not decided.
14:27 🔗 SmileyG I do like sprinkles on my ice cream.
14:27 🔗 SmileyG i lold
14:30 🔗 SmileyG https://archive.org/details/gamekings_mini well this should be movies??
14:31 🔗 SmileyG https://archive.org/details/opensource?and[]=subject%3A%22TwitchTV%22 all these should
14:33 🔗 SmileyG I don't see to have any/the right admin rights to move them
14:34 🔗 SmileyG I do have item mgr access to make dark/undark but doesn't list anything about moving to different collections
14:35 🔗 SmileyG Maybe it bein a tar is the issue too :/
14:39 🔗 schbirid2 whoa you can undark? :O
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15:27 🔗 SmileyG schbirid2: yus
15:27 🔗 SmileyG but only for certain collections or something
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15:56 🔗 vitzli Soundcloud updated Terms of Use
15:57 🔗 vitzli unlawful -> offensive
15:57 🔗 vitzli introduced new app Soundcloud Pulse
15:58 🔗 vitzli oops, offensive-> unlawful
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18:12 🔗 GNUtoo-i1 hi, is #internetarchive the right channel for archive.org? It's for some upload related issues.
18:19 🔗 JW_work2 Eh, this channel is more likely to have people in it (and it's publically archived), unlike #internetarchive
18:20 🔗 JW_work2 What's your issue? (I'm not likely to be able to help, but others may)
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18:43 🔗 godane SketchCow: i'm up to 2008-05-18 of kpfa
18:50 🔗 i0npulse arkiver: who is Noah8-? just some dude?
18:54 🔗 i0npulse in relation to your post about that ia thread a few hours ago
18:54 🔗 i0npulse also, its cool that user Kenneth Udut uses Excel 2000
18:54 🔗 i0npulse so do i ;D
18:54 🔗 i0npulse its low on RAM
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20:41 🔗 Sk1d i am getting: rsync: change_dir "/home/*/archiveteam/fotolog-grab/data/14552811563114734bf95b7b53-66/" failed: No such file or directory (2)
20:43 🔗 Sk1d full error log here: http://pastebin.com/mp9jajvv
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22:41 🔗 MrIdea ok, so i just read about the whole thing on scihub and the "lawsuit" against it from Elsevier, couldn't we more or less mirror it to the internet archive? seems like a repeat of what Aaron Swartz was doing
22:43 🔗 MrIdea from what i've read, Elsevier basicly puts a paywall on what should be free research(for the most part),and that most academics won't even go there anymore
22:43 🔗 MrIdea so maybe this could make a good warrior project?
22:49 🔗 MrIdea SketchCow: your thoughts?
22:51 🔗 MrIdea another thing, i'm sure at least some of the papers on there are on archive.org as well, so to reduce the amount we get, maybe scan(or what ever is better) for science papers hosted on scihub and see if there on ia, if so, move on to the next job
22:58 🔗 schbirid2 sci-hub ~= libgen
22:58 🔗 schbirid2 at that size looking for dupes would be pointless
22:58 🔗 schbirid2 i kinda assume that a copy libgen is already kept but no idea
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23:01 🔗 MrIdea schbirid2: but it is not just libgen, they also have keys for paywall shit like jstor and the like
23:03 🔗 SimpBrain libgen is currently available as torrents and a copy on usenet
23:03 🔗 SimpBrain is scihub data stored anywhere for copying?
23:05 🔗 MrIdea SimpBrain: i'm not sure
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23:06 🔗 MrIdea i just know that maybe getting was is not in libgen and is behind the paywalls like jstor would be the main goal
23:12 🔗 schbirid2 MrIdea: anything that sci-hub gets ondemand goes into libgen afterwards
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23:27 🔗 kyan Anyone have a ignoreset for joomla calendar dates? Like before 1900 and after 2050 or something?
23:27 🔗 kyan (if not i can write one, but figured I'd ask)
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