#archiveteam-bs 2016-05-23,Mon

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Time Nickname Message
00:00 🔗 phillipsj I think IA asks for forgiveness rather than permission. They do stop publishing material subject to take-down requests.
00:04 🔗 phillipsj I like the "personal study" exemption myself, but I am not sure US Copyright law has that. (Education may be close.)
00:07 🔗 hook54321 Your account could have the ability to upload stuff removed though, right?
00:48 🔗 xmc probably
00:52 🔗 hook54321 ^
00:53 🔗 hook54321 Unless you know an admin really well then maybe.
00:53 🔗 hook54321 not
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01:15 🔗 VADemon_ Is there a reliable way to capture twitch.tv streams? VLC almost works but as soon as there's a minor lag/delay the capture is stopped
01:16 🔗 VADemon_ Hm, maybe restarting console-only VLC version as soon as it exits is the way to go, but does anyone have experience/better ideas?
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01:17 🔗 hook54321 VADemon_: I wish I knew a reliable way to capture streams in general... Youtube, Netflix, Hulu, etc.
01:18 🔗 VADemon_ Netflix/Hulu streams are surely DRMed, there's no easy way for them
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01:40 🔗 hook54321 What if we just recorded the packets it's sending?
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02:34 🔗 phillipsj hook54321, you woyuld then have to store the decryption keys, which is apparently an act worse than copyright infringement :P
02:35 🔗 phillipsj 'Circumvention of an effective technological measure'
02:43 🔗 phillipsj Hook: I though one one reason not to ignore ad analytics: AD blocker-blockers are becoming popular. Though it is not clear that a crawl would not just trigger them anyway.
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03:11 🔗 Ducky_ phillipsj: a lot of those use js though
03:11 🔗 Ducky_ I haven't seen an anti-adblocker that runs without js
03:11 🔗 Ducky_ happy to be proven wrong though
03:47 🔗 ranma <hook54321> VADemon_: I wish I knew a reliable way to capture streams in general... Youtube, Netflix, Hulu, etc.
03:47 🔗 ranma i'm assuming the scene just FRAPS nutflix
03:47 🔗 ranma or fraps-like software
03:47 🔗 ranma because i see dropped frames and it drives me nuts
03:48 🔗 ranma can rtmpdump be used to capture non-DRM'd stuff?
03:49 🔗 hook54321 ranma: I almost always refuse to use screen capturing software for videos. I was talking about actually getting the packets.
03:49 🔗 hook54321 and saving them
03:50 🔗 ranma are the streams RTMP?
03:50 🔗 ranma http://stackoverflow.com/questions/25974635/getting-youtube-live-event-rtmp-url-and-stream-name
03:51 🔗 hook54321 Netflix streams? I doubt it. They are probably use some proprietary stuff.
03:51 🔗 ranma i'm assuming youtube is immune to downgrading the SSL?
03:52 🔗 ranma considering gmail uses forward secracy
03:53 🔗 ranma i don't know what all SSLStrip can strip
03:58 🔗 pikhq hook54321: Netflix streaming isn't all that proprietary, at least when rendered through recent browsers. There, it's MPEG DASH with the HTML 5 DRM stuff.
03:58 🔗 pikhq At least in principle I think you could reverse engineer a lot of it and use the browser's DRM blob as a decryption oracle.
03:59 🔗 Ducky_ ranma, why not MITM the tls?
03:59 🔗 Ducky_ disable cert chefcking
04:01 🔗 ranma i'm sure if it were easy, the scene would have figured out how to do it
04:02 🔗 Ducky_ youtube-dl
04:02 🔗 ranma they so very much like to proper each other
04:02 🔗 Ducky_ https://rg3.github.io/youtube-dl/
04:03 🔗 ranma the friday night nuke wars are amusing to watch. once or twice
04:03 🔗 Ducky_ Are we talking youtube or netflix
04:04 🔗 pikhq I was referring to Netflix.
04:04 🔗 pikhq ranma: Yeah, true -- I imagine I'm missing something there.
04:04 🔗 Ducky_ The CDM for EME is closed though
04:04 🔗 hook54321 Know if there's a way to automatically have youtube-dl download certain videos when they become available?
04:04 🔗 Ducky_ script?
04:05 🔗 Ducky_ Let me ask someone about netflix though
04:05 🔗 pikhq Ducky_: Closed, sure. There's no reason it has to be open source for the approach I'm describing: I'm literally suggesting that someone find it inside a browser and use it as a black box.
04:05 🔗 pikhq Which, though not the easiest thing ever, should be *possible*.
04:06 🔗 Ducky_ I wonder if they use the HDCP bypass?
04:06 🔗 Ducky_ or crack
04:07 🔗 Ducky_ didn't the keys get leaked
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04:08 🔗 pikhq Worse, HDCP is horribly misdesigned such that all possible HDCP keys are mathematically correlated, so with relatively simple mathematics on a very small handful of data streams from HDCP supporting devices one can derive every *possible* HDCP key.
04:08 🔗 hook54321 what are we waiting for then? xD
04:09 🔗 pikhq (and, as such, HDCP is effectively broken wide open)
04:10 🔗 hook54321 ugh! why do tumblr jobs take so long? :/
04:11 🔗 pikhq I suppose it's not that surprising though; the crypto system is pretty broken even by the standard of DRM schemes. 56-bit keys = "really, why even bother?"
04:11 🔗 murk if you're just straight wgetting against tumblr, they have sometimes thousands of profile images on each one that are all on different hosts.
04:11 🔗 Ducky_ looking over some posts on a site a frequent I see mentions to hdcp stripping
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04:12 🔗 murk pikhq: 56bit seems awfully like export safe.
04:12 🔗 pikhq Yup!
04:12 🔗 hook54321 murk: I think I had it use PhantomJS, does that make a difference?
04:13 🔗 pikhq Oh, no wonder. HDMI predates the significantly relaxed cipher export regulations in the US.
04:13 🔗 Ducky_ it does?
04:13 🔗 pikhq It uses 56-bit keys because it's an export grade cipher.
04:13 🔗 pikhq HDMI 1.0 was released in Feb. 17, 2000.
04:14 🔗 pikhq Shortly before the regulations were loosened.
04:15 🔗 murk not that the strength of the keys really matters much, if you have absolutely no cryptographic weakness there's always going to be an analog hole. all HDCP does is make the consuming of "legitimate" media significantly worse than anything else.
04:15 🔗 pikhq Typical of DRM, really: limit significantly the rights of consumers, while doing only trivial things to the pirates that are claimed to be the targets.
04:15 🔗 Ducky_ ^
04:16 🔗 hook54321 do fonts from http://fonts.googleapis.com/ really need to be included when archiving a site?
04:16 🔗 murk trivial things? it makes consuming purchased media *worse*.
04:16 🔗 pikhq murk: "To the pirates".
04:16 🔗 pikhq That is to say, if you were already going to be making or consuming illegal copies it's at worst a minor inconvenience.
04:17 🔗 pikhq It only makes things worse for everyone else.
04:17 🔗 murk yep.
04:18 🔗 murk makes the experience worse for ~everybody in the hopes that nobody will be able to break the scheme in some way, which is totally and utterly illogical.
04:19 🔗 pikhq It's only illogical if your primary goal is to stop piracy.
04:19 🔗 pikhq The primary goal seems to be to reduce consumer rights.
04:20 🔗 pikhq Not the stated goal to be sure, but if we look at what is actually *done* we're forced to conclude that's what is actually wanted out of it all.
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05:30 🔗 yipdw oh, that's handy: alt+{up,down} in CLion scrolls between function definitions
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11:50 🔗 hook54321 Help!!! How do I tell if my ear drum is ruptured!!???
12:05 🔗 midas can you hear me?
12:13 🔗 hook54321 ...
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12:25 🔗 Atluxity poke something sharp into your ear
12:26 🔗 Atluxity if you rupture your ear drum
12:26 🔗 Atluxity then it was not ruptured
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12:43 🔗 HCross2 Or just annoy Jason and make him scream
12:58 🔗 hook54321 -_-
12:58 🔗 hook54321 Any serious advice?
12:59 🔗 Atluxity got see a doctor
12:59 🔗 Atluxity *go
12:59 🔗 Atluxity and stop asking randoms on IRC for health advice
12:59 🔗 Atluxity :P
13:00 🔗 hook54321 eh
13:08 🔗 Sanqui so I threw http://www.nic.funet.fi/ into archivebot but it's a little bigger than I anticipated
13:08 🔗 Sanqui and that's even though I put ignores on linux mirrors and such
13:08 🔗 Sanqui thoughts? should I abort
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13:13 🔗 HCross2 hook54321: need us to archive your ear?
13:57 🔗 hook54321 HCross2: only if you can add bacon
13:59 🔗 Sanqui you're lucky this is -bs
14:01 🔗 hook54321 ik
14:03 🔗 hook54321 !d dhndja6dnup1lcqsd9oozjlt9 200 300
14:03 🔗 Sanqui almost
14:03 🔗 hook54321 !delay dhndja6dnup1lcqsd9oozjlt9 200 300
14:03 🔗 hook54321 ...
14:03 🔗 hook54321 oh oops
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14:24 🔗 joepie91_ yes hello from Iceland
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14:31 🔗 hook54321 Hello
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16:09 🔗 phillipsj pikhq HDMI is objectively worse than the *real* single-cable AV standard: SDI. It uses coax instead of many twisted pairs. That cable should be cheaper mass-produced, and you can have longer cable runs. But you can't Patent coax to enforce the HDMI.
16:11 🔗 phillipsj er, that should be "...enforec the HDCP."
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16:20 🔗 * phillipsj is also bitter about the MMC card redesign. The were *so close* to an ideal floppy replacement, and they go and add DRM (CPRM with device revocation)
16:21 🔗 phillipsj They used a weird Interface they could patent there too.
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17:02 🔗 arkiver Noah 8-? made some new posts https://archive.org/details/movies&tab=forum
17:03 🔗 arkiver I'm famous! :)
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17:09 🔗 hook54321 arkiver: you might want to look at the dodear.com job...
17:09 🔗 arkiver delayed.
17:10 🔗 hook54321 lol, Was that why it was timing out? :P
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17:23 🔗 arkiver "This 'arkiver' hasta have permission to upload such a multitude - - - But why?" by Noah 8-?
17:24 🔗 xmc lol wat
17:24 🔗 arkiver https://archive.org/post/1057361/an-upload-every-18-seconds-for-nine-hours-or-2100-in-a-single-day
17:24 🔗 arkiver :P
17:24 🔗 xmc congratulations btw
17:25 🔗 xmc you failed the turing test?
17:25 🔗 xmc or passed?
17:25 🔗 arkiver Noah sees me as an automated uploader
17:26 🔗 xmc sounds like you use a script, i guess
17:26 🔗 xmc idk
17:26 🔗 xmc some people think small
17:26 🔗 arkiver Haha
17:26 🔗 j91_2go careful, don't interact with the trolls
17:26 🔗 xmc some small thinkers think everyone should think small
17:26 🔗 arkiver Yeah
17:28 🔗 arkiver Some nie collections are being uploaded of TV channels and organizations
17:28 🔗 arkiver for example https://archive.org/details/cattvvt?sort=-publicdate
17:29 🔗 arkiver lol, review from Noah on one of them https://archive.org/details/CAT-TV_WBTN_Present_-_Bennington_Select_Board_Candidates_Forum
17:29 🔗 xmc that's uh, not a very good video tbh
17:29 🔗 xmc :P
17:29 🔗 arkiver haha
17:30 🔗 arkiver https://archive.org/details/MAUMS_Patriot_Challenge_Brief_-_5_11_16
17:30 🔗 arkiver there we go, better example
17:31 🔗 hook54321 I have to ask, why is the archivebot limited to 33 jobs at once?
17:31 🔗 HCross server capacity
17:31 🔗 xmc because that's the number of pipelines that people have set up
17:31 🔗 j91_2go Noah seems to like morse code
17:31 🔗 xmc if you want to contribute server space, you can add a couple to that
17:31 🔗 j91_2go xmc: what is the latest estimate on resources-required-per-pipeline>?
17:31 🔗 xmc usually idk, about 3-10 pipelines per server depending
17:32 🔗 xmc i'm not super knowledgeable about archivebot
17:32 🔗 j91_2go and how desired are additional pipelines? eg. is there a different bottleneck to keep in mind?
17:32 🔗 j91_2go ah
17:32 🔗 xmc extra archivebot pipelines are always welcome
17:32 🔗 j91_2go well, open question for anybody reading
17:32 🔗 j91_2go if I have concrete numbers, I can look into trying to get a beefy dedicated box
17:32 🔗 xmc keep in mind, you need to be able to promise months of uptime, because some jobs run for a long time and we don't have resume capabilities
17:32 🔗 j91_2go if I can make the costs work out
17:32 🔗 j91_2go yes, I know
17:32 🔗 j91_2go <- joepie91
17:32 🔗 j91_2go :p
17:32 🔗 xmc ah
17:32 🔗 Sanqui why didn't the plan to turn warriors into backup archivebot pipelines work out?
17:33 🔗 j91_2go (blame efnet's stupid nick length limit)
17:33 🔗 xmc heh. i think the usual approach is to keep adding pipelines to a box until it starts to near its limits?
17:33 🔗 xmc Sanqui: we don't have resume in archivebot yet
17:33 🔗 j91_2go xmc: point is, if I know the numbers, I can see whether it's worth it to invest into a cheapo beefy box for the long term
17:33 🔗 hook54321 I would contribute some of my high school's internet bandwidth, but they use OpenDNS. :(
17:33 🔗 xmc if an archivebot job can be sliced into pieces, then yes it would be good for warrior
17:33 🔗 xmc j91_2go: mmm, yeah
17:34 🔗 j91_2go like, I can probably pull off a deal somewhere
17:34 🔗 j91_2go with a bit of negotiation
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17:35 🔗 j91_2go stupid wifi
17:36 🔗 j91_2go [17:34] <j91_2go> like, I can probably pull off a deal somewhere
17:36 🔗 j91_2go [17:34] <j91_2go> with a bit of negotiation
17:38 🔗 xmc yeah it got thru
17:40 🔗 hook54321 j91_2go: have you heard of IRCCloud
17:40 🔗 Sanqui or znc...
17:41 🔗 hook54321 are there any public znc servers?
17:42 🔗 xmc hook54321: j91_2go is very experienced at irc
17:45 🔗 j91_2go I have a ZNC, it has about 2 years worth of PMs that I don't feel like dealing with
17:45 🔗 j91_2go so meh :P
17:47 🔗 xmc lol
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18:09 🔗 hook54321 did the max number of jobs just change?
18:15 🔗 Sanqui I don't even know where you're getting the number from
18:15 🔗 Sanqui it varies
18:22 🔗 hook54321 Varies based on what?
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18:32 🔗 Atluxity on how many people are engaged
18:32 🔗 Atluxity on how sturdy the target is
18:33 🔗 Atluxity if there is a rate limiter
18:33 🔗 Atluxity how big each item is
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19:30 🔗 hook54321 I can't tell why the thinkinclusive.us job is grabbing tons of flickr images. :/
19:37 🔗 schbirid think inclusive
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21:11 🔗 ranma is that where they're storing the images on their site, hook54321?
21:11 🔗 ranma I think you can embed an album into a website
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21:17 🔗 godane i'm going after etonline.com sitemap
21:17 🔗 godane *video sitemap
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21:35 🔗 dashcloud pikhq: not that it matters currently, but you shouldn't assume HDMI 2.0+ are permanently broken- HDMI 1.4 and earlier that should be a safe assumption, but I'm not sure if the leaked key actually works with HDMI 2.0 (because that adds 4K stuff, and I can't see the industry pass up an opportunity to re-key for that)
21:38 🔗 pikhq They changed the crypto for HDCP 2.x, but still managed to bungle it.
21:38 🔗 pikhq Just with a different problem.
21:39 🔗 xmc smooth
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22:37 🔗 dashcloud if you really need to capture from an HDCP device, I hear the HD Fury line of products works surprisingly well there
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23:52 🔗 ranma isn't the latest version not broken?
23:54 🔗 pikhq ranma: It is broken.
23:54 🔗 pikhq Though the exact details of how to broken aren't publicly revealed, you can buy an HDCP 2.2 stripper.
23:54 🔗 j91_2go whee, shitty DRM schemes
23:55 🔗 ranma ah
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23:56 🔗 ranma I guess I didn't read that part of the wiki when I was troubleshooting my projector that is having hdcp issues
23:57 🔗 ranma because the expense of the fury isn't an option at the moment (PJ is a cheap LED Pico PJ)

irclogger-viewer