#archiveteam-bs 2019-07-03,Wed

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16:15 🔗 Raccoon When using youtube-dl to grab videos, especially from youtube, I recommend using the following setting since the default config is no good for a proper archive.
16:16 🔗 Raccoon # Download best video formats that are 1080p or smaller. Prefer mp4/m4a(aac), mp4/mp3, webm/webm(opus), otherwise whatever you can get.
16:16 🔗 Raccoon -f bestvideo[height<=?1080][ext=mp4]+bestaudio[ext=m4a]/bestvideo[height<=?1080][ext=mp4]+bestaudio[ext=mp3]/bestvideo[height<=?1080][ext=webm]+bestaudio[ext=webm]/best[height<=?1080]/best
16:17 🔗 Raccoon by default, youtube-dl incorrectly mixes mp4/webm(opus) into a sloppy .mkv file that should be set on fire.
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16:17 🔗 Raccoon the devs insist they won't fix this.
16:38 🔗 ivan_ Yeah the mkv is not good as it won't play in any browser
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16:50 🔗 luckcolor Raccoon: i mean isn't the MKV just a container with the original sources packaged?
16:51 🔗 luckcolor it does make sense as it doesn't transcode anything and keeps the original sources, for normal replay on a end device it is i would say a good solution
16:51 🔗 luckcolor ofc browsers most likely don't have mkv container support so yeah
16:51 🔗 luckcolor would AVI be different though?
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17:05 🔗 Raccoon luckcolor: from a purist / archivist point of view... mp4 video streams should only be paired with aac or mp3 audio. webm video streams should only be paired with webm audio. mixing these formats serves no purpose except to elimiate the amount of hardware that can playback these cockup formats
17:06 🔗 Raccoon not even youtube will mix mp4 with webm on their website
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17:07 🔗 Raccoon if you have a lot of videos downloaded with youtube-dl already, you might work through downloading them again correctly
17:08 🔗 luckcolor i mean if youtube-dl downloads the highest bitrate for video in format x and audio in format y i don't see the issue
17:08 🔗 Raccoon you can't compare bitrates between m4a and webm. it's unrelated.
17:09 🔗 Raccoon the objective is to use proper file formats and not mish-mash containers that can't be played back in 80 years
17:10 🔗 JAA But another objective is preserving it at the best quality possible. So what do you do if an MP4 has the best video and an Opus stream has the best audio?
17:10 🔗 Raccoon mp4/m4a or mp4/mp3 or webm/webm and you'll not piss everyone off in 80 years
17:10 🔗 luckcolor i mean
17:10 🔗 JAA (Disregarding for a second how you determine what's the "best".)
17:10 🔗 luckcolor VLC can play them just fine
17:10 🔗 Raccoon opus doesn't even have the best audio
17:10 🔗 Raccoon aac is a much better encoder
17:10 🔗 Fusl 'what if'
17:10 🔗 luckcolor blame youtube i guess
17:11 🔗 Raccoon nothing to blame youtube. blame youtube-dl
17:11 🔗 luckcolor i mean a fileformat support can just be implemented
17:11 🔗 JAA Replace the codecs I mentioned above with whatever other "incompatible" combination you think fits then...
17:12 🔗 Raccoon if you want to see how fucked up it is, take your mkv videos on a USB stick to walmart and see how many display TVs will play it
17:12 🔗 Raccoon then use the config I posted above and try it
17:12 🔗 JAA Yeah, because TVs are known to have real high-quality software on them.
17:12 🔗 Fusl youtube-dl --download-archive "/strada/ydl.log" -i --add-metadata --all-subs --embed-subs --embed-thumbnail --match-filter "playlist_title != 'Liked videos' & playlist_title != 'Favorites'" -f
17:12 🔗 Fusl "(bestvideo[vcodec^=av01][height>=1080][fps>30]/bestvideo[vcodec=vp9.2][height>=1080][fps>30]/bestvideo[vcodec=vp9][height>=1080][fps>30]/bestvideo[vcodec^=av01][height>=1080]/bestvideo[vcodec=vp9.2][height>=1080]/bestvideo[vcodec=vp9][height>=1080]/bestvideo[height>=1080]/bestvideo[vcodec^=av01][height>=720][fps>30]/bestvideo[vcodec=vp9.2][height>=720][fps>30]/bestvideo[vcodec=vp9][height>=720][fps>30]/best
17:12 🔗 Fusl video[vcodec^=av01][height>=720]/bestvideo[vcodec=vp9.2][height>=720]/bestvideo[vcodec=vp9][height>=720]/bestvideo[height>=720]/bestvideo)+(bestaudio[acodec=opus]/bestaudio)/best" --merge-output-format mkv -o "%cd%/%%(playlist_uploader)s/%%(playlist)s/%%(playlist_index)s - %%(title)s - %%(id)s.%%(ext)s" "${@}"
17:13 🔗 Fusl this is mine
17:13 🔗 luckcolor Just grab a copy of lvc and you'll be fine for the next 80 years
17:13 🔗 luckcolor or ffmpeg
17:13 🔗 Raccoon if you want your archive to be accessable to poor mongolian-indian-africans using 30 year old televisions that were donated to them
17:13 🔗 Raccoon you'll care
17:13 🔗 Raccoon library 101
17:13 🔗 JAA I care about accessibility as much as I care about quality.
17:14 🔗 Raccoon mkv is just a sloppy zip file that some codecs happen to read
17:14 🔗 Raccoon let's avoid using it
17:14 🔗 JAA Arguably even less, actually. Because as long as the best signal is preserved, it can always be transformed into something accessible.
17:14 🔗 Fusl from https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/c6fh4x/after_hoarding_over_50k_youtube_videos_here_is/
17:14 🔗 JAA But if you only store the worse signal to begin with...
17:15 🔗 Raccoon but aac is always the better signal than opus
17:15 🔗 Raccoon encoder / decoder comparison rankings
17:16 🔗 luckcolor what about webm
17:16 🔗 Raccoon perhaps it's just a higher bitrate to compensate for crappiness
17:16 🔗 Raccoon webm is opus
17:17 🔗 luckcolor i mean that's what youtube uses for 4k videos
17:17 🔗 Raccoon look for the article where the guy re-encodes all the different audio formats 1000 times over, and gives a subjective rating of how terrible each one is and why
17:18 🔗 luckcolor atleast that's what i see it use i've seen i'ìve only looked at a handfull of videos
17:18 🔗 Raccoon youtube makes both formats available
17:18 🔗 Raccoon unless they don't now. I don't really 4k
17:18 🔗 JAA It all depends on the encoder settings. Always.
17:19 🔗 luckcolor @JAA isn't then bitrate a good measurement value?
17:19 🔗 JAA Maybe within the same codec, but otherwise no.
17:19 🔗 luckcolor right
17:19 🔗 Raccoon I don't even 60fps unless there's a specific high speed subject/object to track.
17:20 🔗 Raccoon 30 is a better cinematic framerate
17:20 🔗 ivan_ 50k YouTube videos eh
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17:20 🔗 JAA For example, Opus bitrates are always lower than e.g. MP3 ones, simply because Opus is better/more efficient at encoding the signal.
17:20 🔗 Fusl ivan_: shhhhh
17:20 🔗 Fusl shush!
17:21 🔗 ivan_ Oh link tells me how to not get the Liked videos
17:21 🔗 luckcolor Raccoon: you can't say though that if i a video is rendered in 60 fps has worse quality though
17:21 🔗 luckcolor same coded settings ofc
17:21 🔗 luckcolor *codec
17:21 🔗 Raccoon luckcolor: no. but worse portability and hardware compatability
17:22 🔗 Raccoon depends on if the video really necessitates 60fps
17:22 🔗 luckcolor i was talking in a general sense but sure
17:22 🔗 Raccoon sure
17:22 🔗 JAA So you don't care about quality at all?
17:22 🔗 Raccoon actually, there is one condition about quality
17:23 🔗 Raccoon 60 fps is a lower quality than 30 fps in the cinematic arts
17:23 🔗 Raccoon when and where 30 fps creates a familiar fantasy-like viewing experience
17:23 🔗 Raccoon as in 24/30 frame film
17:24 🔗 Raccoon it looks awkward and weird when filmed and played at 60
17:24 🔗 JAA That doesn't make any sense.
17:24 🔗 Raccoon never film a fiction fantasy adventure at 60
17:24 🔗 JAA If all other encoder settings are equal/adjusted accordingly, the higher framerate video will have more information in it than the lower one.
17:24 🔗 Raccoon er, don't play it back at 60
17:24 🔗 JAA Assuming appropriate source material, of course.
17:24 🔗 schbirid films stored on vinyl are best anyways
17:24 🔗 ivan_ There's 4K content on YouTube that makes sense to grab at 4K
17:25 🔗 Raccoon not all 4k is 60 fps though, is it
17:25 🔗 ivan_ E.g. train cab views
17:25 🔗 luckcolor Raccoon ofc it isn't
17:25 🔗 Raccoon I don't know what youtube's rules are
17:25 🔗 ivan_ Right
17:26 🔗 ivan_ Also pretty sure opus is better than AAC
17:26 🔗 Fusl MP3 all the things
17:26 🔗 Raccoon is mp4 also better than webm video?
17:26 🔗 Fusl but you really know whats best?
17:26 🔗 Fusl FLAC
17:27 🔗 schbirid blue bits
17:27 🔗 luckcolor @Fusl: Good old GLORIOUS flac
17:27 🔗 Raccoon blue bits?
17:27 🔗 Raccoon sexually frustrated bits?
17:27 🔗 Fusl i store all my music in flac :P
17:27 🔗 schbirid no, bits colored blue. you can see the difference there
17:28 🔗 ivan_ Racoon: might depend on the source content and resolution because VP9 and h264 behaviors vary and YouTube has pushed bitrate down for both
17:28 🔗 luckcolor @Fusl: unfortunately not all music is released equally most is lossy
17:28 🔗 luckcolor thanks for yt
17:28 🔗 luckcolor and spotyloss
17:28 🔗 Fusl i buy my music in WAV and RIFF format
17:28 🔗 luckcolor right
17:28 🔗 Raccoon luckcolor: yes DAD
17:28 🔗 luckcolor what DAD
17:29 🔗 luckcolor why
17:29 🔗 Raccoon digital to analog to digital
17:29 🔗 Raccoon ie, BMG music CDs
17:29 🔗 Raccoon rather than DDD
17:29 🔗 luckcolor i mean you only converto to digital once
17:29 🔗 Raccoon no
17:29 🔗 luckcolor yeah if you're copying a CD or vynyl that is
17:29 🔗 Raccoon they would take digital tape, use analog equipment, to drop onto digital disc
17:29 🔗 Raccoon because they were fuck tards
17:30 🔗 Raccoon rather than reading it digital, and printing it
17:30 🔗 Raccoon D.A.D.
17:31 🔗 simon816 I've downloaded 700GB of videos with bestvideo[height <=? 1080]+bestaudio/best[height <=? 1080]/best have I done this wrong? :p
17:31 🔗 schbirid no wonder modern music is so bad
17:31 🔗 luckcolor fortunally i don't listen to CD's then
17:31 🔗 luckcolor best to listen to a steaming hot flac
17:31 🔗 luckcolor directly from the DAW
17:31 🔗 luckcolor >:D
17:31 🔗 luckcolor @Fusl:
17:34 🔗 Raccoon JAA: apparently there are a good dozen or so videos like this one on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAp5-dndYAE
17:35 🔗 Raccoon espousing that 24 is better than 60 fps in film
17:38 🔗 schbirid text is also more readable if lines are not longer than 80 characters
17:39 🔗 schbirid you are arguing about an aspect of film making
17:39 🔗 luckcolor Raccoon: you should read the comment section of the video too
17:39 🔗 schbirid which is quite irrelevant if one cares about archiving the best possible or most "complete" version of any video
17:39 🔗 Raccoon luckcolor, sure. but I will tend to agree with the 'motion blur' familiarity and emersion principle
17:40 🔗 Raccoon schbirid: naa, i was arguing against people using 60 except where needed. as far as archiving goes, you can't even select 30 on sites or videos that utilize 60 to start
17:40 🔗 Raccoon unless you drop to 480
17:41 🔗 luckcolor i would say it all comes down to what you are doing
17:41 🔗 luckcolor be it codec, resolution, bitrate, FPS
17:41 🔗 Raccoon agreed. context sensitive
17:41 🔗 luckcolor sure you can argue that movies are made in 24 FPS
17:41 🔗 luckcolor but can also be made in 60 FPS
17:42 🔗 Raccoon here, just watch this segment for 30 seconds. https://youtu.be/nAp5-dndYAE?t=162
17:42 🔗 Raccoon summarizes my point there
17:45 🔗 schbirid isnt exactly that part debunked by the pinned, first comment
17:46 🔗 luckcolor i don't know if motion blur is what makes anything more realistic
17:46 🔗 luckcolor like it sure is a part but same goes for other things
17:46 🔗 luckcolor also schbirid: yeah
17:47 🔗 Raccoon debunked? he's talking about head movements and cheap video games. he doesn't exactly disagree with the science behind the demonstration conducted in the video
17:48 🔗 Raccoon even the nomansky example is a pretty irrefutable example of how high framerate makes a fantasy reality look fake.
17:49 🔗 Raccoon plastic
17:49 🔗 schbirid yes, youtuplainer videos tend to nicely illustrate their arguments
17:49 🔗 schbirid what's your point anyways
17:50 🔗 Raccoon It'll be intersting if Disney releases a Star Wars in 60 fps. Just sayin'
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17:53 🔗 luckcolor again it comes down to what you're doing be it a movie, a game won't be more immersive just because you set it at 24 FPS you can actually notived the difference betwhen 30 and 60 fps in a game
17:53 🔗 luckcolor and still when it comes to archival grabbing the highest rsolution and quality for audio and video is the way to go
17:54 🔗 luckcolor i'm sure youtube does mix and match codecs when playing videos when you select highest quality
17:54 🔗 luckcolor the entire reason they do have the option is to provide support to different browsers/devices and offeren different quality and bitrates
17:57 🔗 luckcolor taske this video for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bey4XXJAqS8
17:57 🔗 luckcolor on my machine if i set it to 4K it uses both for audio and video the opus codec
17:58 🔗 luckcolor i just tried to set it to 720p and this time instead it used mp4 for video and opus for audio
17:58 🔗 luckcolor even if the video does have a 720p webm encode avilable
17:59 🔗 luckcolor you can check this yourself by right clicking on the video and clocking on "show statistics"
18:00 🔗 luckcolor and comparing the codec names with what youtube-dl -F prints out on the same video
18:00 🔗 luckcolor *cliking
18:02 🔗 luckcolor so i guess if youtube does it why can't youtube-dl do the same
18:02 🔗 luckcolor Raccoon: and with that i leave you
18:05 🔗 Raccoon but think of the inner mongolians who won't be able to watch mkv files on their donated used 30 year old Emerson televisions.
18:06 🔗 luckcolor they can go take a copy of the MKV grab a copy of ffmpeg and conver the video
18:06 🔗 luckcolor or use VLC on any of those android tv sticks that cost literally nothing
18:07 🔗 luckcolor and still if you wanted to just give an mp4 to them you can
18:07 🔗 luckcolor just you have to do that thing with ffmpeg on the mkv
18:07 🔗 Fusl 24/30/60/120 fps: i can literally /see/ the stuttering in 30 fps movies and tv shows, hence i never really watch movies unless they can be interpolated to 60 fps, same goes with youtube videos: https://svp-team.com/ is a good software for this that i'm happily paying for and does a very good job of not making me dizzy watching these kind of videos
18:10 🔗 Fusl also, i spent tens of thousands of dollars on a pc so that it doesn't dip below 90 fps during games or else they are not enjoyable
18:10 🔗 Fusl see. higher fps /does/ matter for some people
18:11 🔗 Raccoon wow. you should get your head examined. literally, to figure out your super-human optic nerve system
18:13 🔗 Raccoon does most fluorescent and LED lighting give you migraines?
18:13 🔗 schbirid fusl their head, you your brain
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18:13 🔗 Fusl Raccoon: they do
18:14 🔗 Raccoon only some do for me, esp if they're starch white blue light.
18:14 🔗 Fusl LED isn't as bad anymore as it used to be
18:14 🔗 Fusl the philips hue ones are especially good at not doing 50hz flickering
18:14 🔗 Raccoon I can't handle lighting over 5000K
18:15 🔗 Raccoon everything becomes somewhat monochromatic to me
18:15 🔗 Fusl oh that, yeah. i hate those white blue colored lights they use in e.g. hospitals, clinics, dentists, doctors, etc.
18:15 🔗 Fusl hence i hate going there
18:15 🔗 Raccoon schools.
18:15 🔗 Raccoon i had to sit next to a window growing up
18:17 🔗 Fusl dark theme all the things. my entire linux setup is dark themed and all websites i visit have the dark theme configured if they offer one or i use stylus to do that, sometimes even doing them myself like this one: https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/72431/tutorial-use-a-dark-theme-on-let
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