#archiveteam-bs 2020-01-31,Fri

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00:53 🔗 godane so i got more netguide magazines scanned today
01:04 🔗 atphoenix astrid, we are now asking restricted (private) groups to accept us if they are willing to have a public archive created
01:05 🔗 astrid ah cool
01:05 🔗 atphoenix most of them accept, some reject
01:05 🔗 atphoenix I put together a detailed message that I give to groups that want more info
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03:40 🔗 godane latest scans : https://www.patreon.com/posts/digitize-for-01-33600913
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04:05 🔗 JamesLARC Good evening! I am a moderator from a Yahoo group that received a membership request earlier today by one of the archivists. Another of our moderators was not paying attention to the information in the join request and approved the request without realizing the connection with archiveteam. We would prefer our content not to be made public. Can we please request that any data from the LARCMD group please be deleted?
04:05 🔗 JamesLARC I emailed the specific archivist who joined our group, and their auto-reply email directed me here. Thank you all for any assistance you can provide.
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04:43 🔗 atphoenix Hi JamesLARC it doesn't look like the email account in question is currently a member of your group
04:44 🔗 atphoenix Please consider making your own private backups before Yahoo does their purge.
04:50 🔗 JamesLARC i sent a follow-up email from the account that i use in that group. i already backed up the group's data. thanks
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06:36 🔗 Lord_Nigh oh boy, blizzard's new content creation policy applies to ALL blizzard games
06:36 🔗 Lord_Nigh so you can't get around it by editing maps in classic warcraft 3 vs warcraft 3 remastered
06:39 🔗 Lord_Nigh the new policy gives blizzard 100% IP ownership (or an irrevocable exclusive license to the content if ownership cannot be legally transferred due to local laws) of all custom maps and content created, and forbids creating copies of those maps in any other game
06:39 🔗 Lord_Nigh I have two words to say about that policy:
06:39 🔗 Lord_Nigh FUCK. THAT.
06:40 🔗 Lord_Nigh it applies to old warcraft 2 as well
06:40 🔗 Lord_Nigh etc
06:43 🔗 Lord_Nigh Alexstarfire on arstechnica comments section says "They found the quickest way to lose their creative community. "
06:43 🔗 Lord_Nigh amen
06:44 🔗 Lord_Nigh nobody's gonna touch that shit with a 10 foot pole now
06:44 🔗 Lord_Nigh blizzard just made every game they ever created a toxic legal minefield
06:45 🔗 thuban1 'hurr dbur i'm blizzard and i'm mad that i didn't get around to jumping on dota for ten years. i have decided to remedy the fact that i don't make any money off my mods by making sure that there will never be any mods to make money off of'
06:45 🔗 Lord_Nigh yep!
06:45 🔗 Lord_Nigh also a similar thing happened more recently with valve's dota2 mod "auto chess"
06:46 🔗 Lord_Nigh the auto chess guys made a deal with epic games to make an exclusive epic port on an entirely new engine
06:48 🔗 Lord_Nigh so valve created dota underlords (much like blizzard did after they lost Dota, they created heroes of the storm)
06:48 🔗 Lord_Nigh although from what i understand, dota underlords at least was an almost 100% identical clone of auto chess
06:49 🔗 Lord_Nigh while that wasn't the case with HotS
07:01 🔗 Lord_Nigh and drodo games is still updating auto chess on dota2 engine anyway
07:02 🔗 Lord_Nigh so valve creating their own fork (Which i think has diverged by now) seems a bit knee-jerkist
07:10 🔗 odemgi_ JAA, Igloo https://huds.tf/ "HUDS.TF is closing down."
07:31 🔗 atphoenix the policy won't affect players who aren't afraid to bend the rules, use things like FSGS and older versions of Warcraft II and Starcraft.
07:32 🔗 atphoenix folks that aren't tied to battlenet
07:37 🔗 Ryz Time to loot those countless Warcraft III fansites and all those map goodies~ oo;
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09:37 🔗 JAA odemgi_: Already running in AB.
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10:12 🔗 darkskiez I'm trying to use yahoo-group-archiver, i have my T/Y cookies, but it fails with yahoogroupsapi.NotFound. Not sure what else to try
10:12 🔗 darkskiez its a group on uk.groups.yahoo.com / @yahoogroups.co.uk if that matters.
10:15 🔗 JAA darkskiez: #pythons-attack-y! is the channel for that.
10:17 🔗 darkskiez Thanks
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19:28 🔗 atphoenix this may be -BS or -OT. But I can see it forcing us to scramble more. https://www.engadget.com/2020/01/31/s230-repeal/
19:29 🔗 atphoenix "Wave goodbye to the comment section of the internet."
19:32 🔗 atphoenix "The end result, however, is that any website that relies on user-generated content, from YouTube through to Goodreads, is in trouble."
19:35 🔗 Frogging "Former Vice President Joe Biden told The New York Times that, if elected, he would see the law "revoked, immediately.""
19:35 🔗 Frogging uhh
19:35 🔗 Frogging why?
19:36 🔗 nicolas17 "It's been suggested that withdrawing s230 will be less problematic now because it's possible to automate much of the content moderation" yeah that will work so well... o_o
19:42 🔗 atphoenix That has worked delightfully well on YT. Demonetizing countless small players.
19:44 🔗 atphoenix user commented "I wouldn't mourn the demise of Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter, however." I wouldn't either...but the content loss would be enormous. Google+ was peanuts comparatively.
19:45 🔗 atphoenix I'd mourn content loss. Not the platforms.
19:46 🔗 Frogging user review sites would be a loss
19:46 🔗 atphoenix forums are already in trouble
19:47 🔗 atphoenix small user-gen sites are in trouble
19:48 🔗 anon has joined #archiveteam-bs
19:48 🔗 anon Good evening
19:48 🔗 anon Can I ask questions about the Internet Archive here? I know this is not an official IA channel, but I imagine you are familiar with and invested in the platform.
19:49 🔗 Frogging just ask
19:49 🔗 anon Does the Internet Archive censor pages?
19:49 🔗 anon I know they sometimes mark pages as blocked or so
19:49 🔗 Frogging No
19:49 🔗 Frogging They do not edit the contents of the archive
19:49 🔗 anon That's curious
19:50 🔗 anon I came across an article, which made a claim that this had happened
19:50 🔗 Frogging (someone can chime in and correct me, but I'm fairly certain this does not happen)
19:50 🔗 Frogging what's the article?
19:50 🔗 anon It isn't censored wholesale, that's the odd thing. Just an old revision.
19:51 🔗 anon https://medium.com/@jiangzhuoer/infrastructure-funding-plan-for-bitcoin-cash-131fdcd2412e So this is the article
19:51 🔗 nicolas17 I don't see such claim
19:51 🔗 Frogging I don't see the Archive mentioned in there
19:52 🔗 anon No, that article is censored
19:52 🔗 anon https://archive.is/https://medium.com/@jiangzhuoer/infrastructure-funding-plan-for-bitcoin-cash-131fdcd2412e here it is on archive.is, with more history
19:52 🔗 anon Here is the article claiming censorship: https://www.ccn.com/hash-war-looms-as-bitcoin-cash-tax-drama-explodes/
19:52 🔗 anon "Strangely, the archive of the original on Wayback Machine has also been removed."
19:53 🔗 anon And here is an article: https://read.cash/@shadow-kwh/bch-dev-fund-a-response-from-an-opposing-mining-group-see-update-inside-4397e64b
19:53 🔗 anon It links to a web.archive.org capture of the censored article. The capture doesn't exist.
19:53 🔗 anon So either they made up the claim that the article had been captured and nobody else put it through archive.org
19:53 🔗 anon or the IA is engaging in silent censorship
19:54 🔗 nicolas17 I see the page on the web archive just fine
19:54 🔗 anon Yes, but you don't see the historical revision.
19:55 🔗 atphoenix That article is from Jan 22. When do you believe there were earlier saved copies at IA?
19:55 🔗 anon There was allegedly a capture done on Jan 23
19:55 🔗 anon There is this link: https://web.archive.org/web/20200123082358/https://medium.com/@jiangzhuoer/infrastructure-funding-plan-for-bitcoin-cash-131fdcd2412e
19:55 🔗 anon 2020-01-23 08:23:58
19:56 🔗 anon Either this link is made up (unlikely, since if so anyone who clicked it could have saved it)
19:56 🔗 anon or the IA is censoring
19:56 🔗 nicolas17 I don't know what you mean by "since if so anyone who clicked it could have saved it"
19:56 🔗 Frogging atphoenix: I think it's that the only snapshot on the WBM is from the 28th
19:56 🔗 atphoenix no. technical failures are not censorship. https://twitter.com/MarkGraham/status/1220501487241060352
19:57 🔗 atphoenix IA Save Page Now has been having trouble.
19:57 🔗 Frogging ah, I see
19:57 🔗 anon nicolas17: If I go to web.archive.org/X/website and it doesn't exist, it asks me if I want to save
19:58 🔗 Frogging If you put in a URL with a timestamp for which there isn't a snapshot, it redirects to the closest one
19:58 🔗 atphoenix last week at exactly that time there were MANY issues with Save Page Now
19:58 🔗 anon Right, and if none exist, it asks you if you want to save
19:58 🔗 Frogging but it sounds like that feature is having technical difficulties
19:59 🔗 Frogging so maybe that's why
19:59 🔗 anon so if someone wants to fake having archived a page, anyone who clicks it can archive it
19:59 🔗 nicolas17 note that the article on ccn.com was published on January 27
19:59 🔗 anon atphoenix: Someone on twitter says that issue is resolved.
19:59 🔗 anon But it's the same one? Captures disappearing after the fact?
20:00 🔗 nicolas17 the tweet says the issue for that particular aggregateiq website is fixed
20:00 🔗 Frogging anon: There are reports on the forums as recent as 2 days ago of it still having issues https://archive.org/post/1105568/archiving-problems
20:00 🔗 atphoenix if you've ever run a complex system, and had to recover from certain failures, you know that transactions can be incomplete. Sometimes transactions are lost.
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20:01 🔗 anon Then that settles it. Will the pages be available eventually?
20:02 🔗 Frogging They should be once they fix it
20:02 🔗 Frogging I think.
20:02 🔗 atphoenix To maintain integrity transaction rollback may happen with certain kinds of filesystems and databases in response to various failure situations.
20:02 🔗 anon I'm no expert, but shouldn't that cause the opposite issue? Newer captures disappearing, but old ones staying?
20:02 🔗 Frogging (assuming it didn't get lost, but from the Twitter discussion there it sounds like the missing snapshots can be found again)
20:03 🔗 anon Last in first out sort of thing
20:03 🔗 Frogging who knows
20:03 🔗 Frogging since we don't know the architecture of the system it's anyone's guess
20:03 🔗 atphoenix I don't know of any case where IA has intentially pulled a record without a trace. Marked certain sites as 'excluded'? Yes. Been bitten by domains being taken over by domain squatters that play games with robots.txt? Tes.
20:04 🔗 atphoenix Tes -> Yes
20:04 🔗 Frogging In some cases, URLs can be excluded by request of their owners, but that would show an "this URL has been excluded" message
20:06 🔗 atphoenix It's always good to have multiple copies. Even of stuff on IA. I have been known to submit in parallel things to archive.is and WBM because sometimes one captures the site better than the other. Or one completely fails to capture.
20:06 🔗 Frogging (and it would not look as if there were some snapshots available but not others)
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20:08 🔗 atphoenix The CCN article is making assumptions about IA that do not stand up. That in turn raises red flags about the rest of their narrative. But that is going into -ot territory.
20:13 🔗 atphoenix and anon is gone
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21:11 🔗 JAA Regarding user-generated content, the big players will be able to absorb legal changes like that to some degree. The real issues are smaller platforms, which don't have the resources (technologically and personnel) to deal with that. So it effectively strengthens the position of the big companies.
21:11 🔗 JAA Also, IA questions -> #internetarchive
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