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00:55
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aloo_shu |
hi |
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00:56
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aloo_shu |
read my rant onnyhe main channel, I suppose |
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00:57
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aloo_shu |
on the* |
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00:57
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aloo_shu |
[continued] |
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00:57
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JAA |
As far as I can see, we didn't archive any of that, and the site is excluded from the WBM. :-| |
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00:57
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aloo_shu |
just was getting there |
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00:57
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aloo_shu |
shame on them |
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00:59
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aloo_shu |
they're spamming ppl for donations bragging about how important they are for justice, and are helping this particular business conceal a lie |
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01:00
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aloo_shu |
I was hoping you'd know of other sources |
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01:01
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JAA |
When did .org disappear? |
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01:04
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aloo_shu |
full background story can be studied in this (properly archved) blog: https://opencouchsurfing.org |
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01:04
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aloo_shu |
the switch in status ocurred in 2012 |
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01:05
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aloo_shu |
org redirected to com for a while, possibly still does |
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01:06
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aloo_shu |
server switch was in 2014, since the old server was all a proper own codebase, the coders of which, opensource enthousiasts, had all run away |
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01:06
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Frogging |
Where's the codebase now? |
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01:07
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aloo_shu |
who knows |
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01:07
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Frogging |
it was open source, I assume? |
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01:07
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Frogging |
Not on GitHub or anything? |
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01:07
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aloo_shu |
somewhere on a hdd nailed to the wall in casey fenton's toilet |
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01:08
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aloo_shu |
it wasn't, and the first volunteer coders smelled a rat when in appx. 2007, they were being asked to sign non-disclosure agreements |
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01:09
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Frogging |
it was not open source? |
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01:09
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aloo_shu |
I wouldn't be surprised if opensource bits were used, but afaik, no |
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01:10
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Frogging |
I see |
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01:10
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aloo_shu |
I think that blog I linked, is searchable |
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01:12
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aloo_shu |
dan hoffer and especially casey fenton didn't lack charisma, and a good part of the income from donations and 'member verification' got re-invested into coding camps with an attractive atmossphere |
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01:14
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Frogging |
You could try searching other archive sites like archive.is, archive.today (not sure if I got that right) |
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01:14
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aloo_shu |
couchsurfing never *could* possibly become a non-profit, because they didn't have an elected board, nor did they have the intention to have one.. |
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01:14
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aloo_shu |
taking note |
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01:15
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JAA |
archive.is and archive.today are the same thing, but yeah, you can try. Not sure if it already existed in 2012 though. |
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01:15
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aloo_shu |
just was to ask |
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01:15
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aloo_shu |
would the website have had a section on general web archives? |
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01:16
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Frogging |
What do you mean? |
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01:17
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aloo_shu |
it is having sections on software, this, that, does it have a section with links to wbm and sites with the same functionality? |
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01:17
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aloo_shu |
can't say I've looked around thoroughly. using elinks on a small device, too.. |
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01:18
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Frogging |
Well, there's this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Web_archiving_initiatives |
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01:18
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Frogging |
as well as your favourite search engine |
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01:18
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Frogging |
but there aren't a great many large-scale public web archives |
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01:18
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aloo_shu |
found it |
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01:19
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01:20
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aloo_shu |
bit hidden under 'further reading' |
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01:20
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Frogging |
Can you link what you found? I'm curious |
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01:21
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Frogging |
oh you're talking about the Archive Team website |
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01:22
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Frogging |
I thought you were referring to archive.org. My mistake |
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01:22
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aloo_shu |
https://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Recommended_Reading#Online_Archives_of_Interest I think it is |
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01:37
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aloo_shu |
archive-it has this https://wayback.archive-it.org/all/20121103053106/http://www.couchsurfing.org/group_read.html?gid=2372&post=13590954 , but it is already having the new footer , 'a socially responsible B corp' |
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01:39
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aloo_shu |
but 'made at the internet archive' already left little hope, if it's the inernet archive who have complied with couchsurfing's wishes to hide their history |
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01:40
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aloo_shu |
couchsurfing is and was a multi-million member community, ofc it got crawled all over |
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01:41
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Frogging |
For what it's worth, I think archive.org complies with anyone who requests to have their URL excluded, so it's not like they made a special exception just to conspire with the owners of that particular site |
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01:42
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aloo_shu |
probably it's even possible to research the deadline before which wbm refuses to show pages from the couchsurfing.org domain |
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01:42
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Frogging |
AFAIK, if it's excluded from the WBM, no snapshots will be accessible. |
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01:42
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Frogging |
but archive-it.org doesn't share that exclusion list |
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01:43
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Frogging |
it's a different site entirely |
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01:43
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aloo_shu |
ok, that's an interesting piece of information, that wbm will generally comply w/ exclusion requests |
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01:43
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01:45
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aloo_shu |
contrasts a bit with archive.org's self-presentation, but now I'd have to dig for the wording of year old fundrising campaigns |
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01:45
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01:45
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aloo_shu |
-raising even |
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01:47
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Frogging |
The Wayback machine crawler obeys robots.txt, and site owners can e-mail the Archive to have their sites excluded. |
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01:47
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aloo_shu |
with CS it clearly was the latter |
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01:47
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01:47
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Frogging |
Though I think the robots.txt handling is a bit more complicated because there were issues with domain squatters putting up restrictive robots.txt files that caused site archives to stop working |
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01:48
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Frogging |
not sure if/how IA addressed that |
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01:48
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Frogging |
https://blog.archive.org/2017/04/17/robots-txt-meant-for-search-engines-dont-work-well-for-web-archives/ |
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01:51
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aloo_shu |
CS community had had a large debate when the owners mode user profiles searcheable, it resulted in making it an opt-out, then an opt-in feature. This was before the footer changed from non-profit forever to b-corp, so there've been scores of user profiles searcheable, and ofc the public part of the site, which was eager to grow and be visible |
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01:52
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01:55
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aloo_shu |
it's most definitely not a robots.txt issue, CS was and is searcheable, the owners do have a clear motivation for concealing how the footer was looking before 2012. WBM search requests into old couchsurfing.org explicitely state (or did state) that the blocking had been requested |
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01:56
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01:57
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Frogging |
no, it's not a robots.txt exclusion in this case. In such cases it would say that in the error message |
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01:57
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aloo_shu |
good to know that it need not be an intentional complicity, but it is remaining an effective one |
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01:58
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JAA |
I was going to add it to https://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=List_of_websites_excluded_from_the_Wayback_Machine, but heh, it's already mentioned. :-) |
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02:00
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aloo_shu |
if archive.org's policy is as you said, it effectively means if you want to conceal the past of your business, you can. Quite substantially limits its reach |
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02:01
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Frogging |
I don't know the nuances of the policy or its rationale, so I can't really give an opinion |
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02:04
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aloo_shu |
JAA: and that's where the archiving business is getting tricky, cuz if that list of excluded sites would include specific alternative sources, where existing, it would double as a fishy site owner's guide to bullying targets, but that's an inevitable part |
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02:06
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JAA |
Yep |
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02:06
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aloo_shu |
but good for raising awareness that you're having a list of sites excluded from wbm in the first place |
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02:09
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aloo_shu |
one approach for outmaneuvering couchsurfing, could be their own press archive. I'll explain: |
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02:13
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hook54321 |
Frogging: from what I've gathered, essentially most of their crawlers still, by default, follow robots.txt (which I think is probably wise for them, so crawls are less likely to get out of control), but pages can't get removed simply by their being an entry in the site's robots.txt |
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02:13
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hook54321 |
Save Page Now ignores robots.txt https://twitter.com/MarkGraham/status/1113503847228395521 |
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02:15
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JAA |
Makes sense, since SPN is not a robot but a manual thing. |
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02:15
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aloo_shu |
many have been big papers and TV stations of all nations who've gladly given CS free publicity - goon a couchsurfing trip, stay for free, film it, and sell tge story to the BBC, what could be better, CS' PR team would assist you. If only one of those big players, or theyr contrubiting journalists, could be convinced that they've made a fool of themselves and assisted in planned goodwill mining, |
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02:15
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aloo_shu |
they might be motivated to do an in-depth re-visiting of the topic |
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02:15
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aloo_shu |
go on* |
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02:16
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aloo_shu |
and a handful typos more |
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02:18
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hook54321 |
i wish IA were a little bit more strict about what they allow people to exclude |
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02:18
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aloo_shu |
so do I |
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02:19
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aloo_shu |
but I wonder how political support is for tgat |
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02:19
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aloo_shu |
that |
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02:19
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aloo_shu |
or legal |
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02:29
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aloo_shu |
on and off, there's talk of a 'right to be forgotten', and while that idea is gaining traction, there's little campaigning for the right to remember & prove - precisely why I was happy to learn of your existence today |
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SketchCo1 |
PurpleSym: Yes |
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SketchCow |
https://archive.org/details/permanentrecordcnunredacted |
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SketchCow |
Edward Snowden's autobiography, Chinese translation, where he found out the publisher, against his wishes, had censored/redacted tons of pages, so he put out unredacted versions, and I was contacted to mirror at IA. |
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betamax |
anyone able to help track down an obscure 90s file from a long-lost FTP archive? |
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betamax |
this stems from a discussion on HackerNews I had with the author of an Eliza-style HyperCard stack |
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betamax |
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22288720 |
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betamax |
(I manage the HyperCard stacks collection on archive.org so am always on the lookout for obscure stacks) |
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betamax |
it was in the Info-Mac archives, in the "app" directory and called "professor-x.hqx" |
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betamax |
unfortunately it seems to have been deleted from several of the newer info-mac archives, and subsequently isn't in: https://archive.org/details/info-mac-archive |
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betamax |
Anyone know of a good way to download all reddit posts by a single user? I looked on GitHub but all the ones I found were old and didn't work anymore (or required Windows) |
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atphoenix |
betamax, I don't know if it is even possible. I thought I read somewhere about an API limit of 1000 posts. I know when I've tried searching for specific older posts I made on Reddit, the post search (on 3rd party sites) comes up blank. |
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atphoenix |
https://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Reddit mentions "As of March 26, 2013, users can only see up to 1,000 posts and comments on a profile page." |
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betamax |
ah. is there a way to get the 1000, then? |
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er1sian |
peertube.video is going down soon and I believe it should be archived. (1) Is this the right place to ask about it? (2) are other archivists likely to help me understand how to *best* archive the site? Owner has not replied to attempts to contact them. |
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er1sian |
Soon = end of Feb |
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Frogging |
reddit also limits the number of posts that will display in a subreddit. I don't know if the API allows further access, but if not, then reddit is essentially un-archivable |
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Frogging |
without search engines or other link gathering methods |
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Frogging |
I think twitter is also broken in this way, at least from the browser point of view. |