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09:22
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JAA |
Ooh, TIL that Python 2 will *finally* reach EOL on 2020-01-01. It's about time. |
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phuzion |
JAA: and yet, it will remain in use for another century. |
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14:14
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tyzoid |
There're already forks/alternate interpreters for python that say that they'll continue supporting it beyond 2020 |
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14:14
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tyzoid |
2020 is just EOL for the standard python interpreter |
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14:21
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JAA |
Good enough for me. |
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astrid |
geez. some people cannot just let go. |
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15:46
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schbirid2 |
it's like they're frozen |
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15:59
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arkiver |
I´ve been doing a lot in Python 2, and didn´t start doing much with Python 3 until recently (1.5 years or so) |
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16:00
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arkiver |
The biggest advantage of Python 3 is how it now handles encoding |
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16:01
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arkiver |
I would not want to go back to Python 2 |
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16:13
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JAA |
Yeah, that's definitely the elephant in the room, but I also strongly prefer the exception handling, new-style classes without inheriting from object explicitly, and proper division of Python 3. |
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16:13
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JAA |
And range and map being generators. |
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16:51
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17:11
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ivan |
I recommend trying a language with pattern matching and protocols/traits and macros for a few months and seeing if Python still looks like an acceptable language |
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17:30
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JAA |
ivan: Which languages are you thinking of? |
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17:34
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ivan |
Clojure, Elixir, Rust, but plenty of other languages that I'm less familiar with like Haskell |
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17:35
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ivan |
if you come to expect those three things (or more) the big differences between the new options are polytyped vs unityped http://theorangeduck.com/page/defence-unitype and GC/runtime vs no GC/runtime |
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17:41
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ivan |
I've been using Elixir for a few years but I'm looking at Rust again now that it's more mature and I desire less runtime |
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17:49
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JAA |
Yeah, I have zero experience with those languages. I also lack the motivation to try out a new language currently, to be honest. |
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17:51
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JAA |
And one thing I really like about Python (which is also briefly touched on in that article you linked) is its clean basic syntax. It looks like pseudo-code, forces you to reveal the structure of the code through the indentation, and there is no begin/end spam around code blocks. |
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17:52
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JAA |
I'm sure there are other languages out there that would satisfy this as well, but that's definitely a big advantage of Python in my opinion. |
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18:01
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ivan |
one of things you get from working in a language with a good type checker is a feedback loop that tells you if you refactored or used something wrong before your program blows up at runtime |
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18:01
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ivan |
you can often just make some crazy change you want and keep fixing compiler errors until it works |
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18:03
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ivan |
as programs scale up that can be a killer feature that outweighs clean-looking code |
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18:05
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ivan |
the other thing you get is being able to fit a lot more data into memory because you've got structs instead of hashmaps everywhere |
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18:05
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18:07
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ivan |
(I restricted "good type checker" to polytyped languages there because the ones that get bolted on like typescript and mypy are not so great) |
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18:34
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JAA |
I agree, (proper) type checkers can be very useful. |
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18:36
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JAA |
The memory (and, in at least some cases, computational) efficiency point is very dependent on what you do. I didn't have to care about this too much in any of my recent projects - except in one case, where I ended up implementing a Python extension in C. |
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18:46
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JAA |
I also just had to think of something semi-related: I once read about how we should really just completely reconsider the way we write code because the current way is very error-prone and can never (?) guarantee that the code actually does what it claims to do (i.e. there is no way to prove its correctness in the general case). So instead of writing (more or less directly) machine code, we should |
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18:46
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JAA |
write complete specifications and let the computer generate the machine code from that. There's a name for this concept, but I can't remember it right now. |
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18:53
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tyzoid |
Genetic Coding, IIRC |
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18:53
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tyzoid |
that said, your tests need to be *very* specific. |
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18:54
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tyzoid |
otherwise it'll likely be horribly insecure |
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18:54
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tyzoid |
In general, good code does what it's designed to do quickly and efficiently |
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18:54
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tyzoid |
Secure code does what it's designed to do, and only what it's designed to do. |
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