| Time |
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12:31
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12:33
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icedice |
Any recommendations for a reliable 6TB HDD? I'll use in my desktop to store and access files, mostly videos. |
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12:34
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icedice |
I'm thinking about getting a WD Black 6TB 256MB |
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12:34
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icedice |
And I won't RAID the HDD |
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12:35
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ivan |
best deal per GB right now is shucked 8TB WD My Book assuming stripping the warranty + applying tape over 3V lines is OK |
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12:36
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icedice |
Also, how reliable are 6TB HDDs overall? I know that 1.5TB, 3TB, and 8+TB HDDs aren't as reliable as the other capacities. |
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12:36
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icedice |
I ment internal HDD, not external |
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12:37
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ivan |
external drives contain internal drives :-) :-) |
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12:37
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ivan |
backblaze is the place that might have data but I don't think they bought many 6TB |
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12:37
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ivan |
in general the annual failure rate is around 1% now |
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12:38
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icedice |
BackBlaze stats is a joke |
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12:38
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ivan |
there's an 6TB HGST He8 fwiw |
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12:39
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ivan |
still available new as HGST Deskstar NAS |
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12:40
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JAA |
1.5 and 3 TB had some issues, yeah, but I haven't heard about systematic problems on 8+ TB drives. Any source on that? |
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12:41
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icedice |
JAA: A hard drive technician on Overclock.net warned about 8+ TB drives: https://www.overclock.net/forum/20-hard-drives-storage/1634071-warning-about-8tb-drives-cautious-aware-higher-rate-failure-degraded-surfaces.html |
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12:41
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icedice |
Why BlackBlaze's study sucks: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/answers/id-2724690/seagate-hgst.html#r16270047 |
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12:42
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icedice |
They're using consumer hard drives in a server environment |
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12:42
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JAA |
Yeah, Backblaze's data is pretty much useless. |
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12:42
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ivan |
I have a lot of 8TB He8 drives and they're fine |
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12:42
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icedice |
Of course HGST is going to dominate that |
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12:42
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icedice |
ivan: How old are they? |
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12:42
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ivan |
varies, mostly 1-1.5 years |
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12:43
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ivan |
I test them a lot and have not seen bad blocks or whatever |
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12:43
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icedice |
Ok. I'm mostly worried about the long term reliability, so it's too early to draw conclusions from that |
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12:44
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icedice |
The only decent stats on hard drive reliability: https://www.hardware.fr/articles/962-6/disques-durs.html |
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12:45
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ivan |
the "backblaze study sucks" comment you linked is clueless |
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12:45
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ivan |
backblaze loads the drives with data and mostly leaves them alone |
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12:45
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ivan |
also, complaining about stressing the drives too hard? wouldn't you want _more_ room for error in your own environment? |
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12:46
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icedice |
They drives are in a high vibration environment |
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12:46
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icedice |
Which they are not designed for |
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12:46
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icedice |
Of course they're going to fail |
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12:46
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icedice |
The server/NAS drives are the most reliable ones, but they don't have head parking |
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12:47
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icedice |
And they have error recovery control |
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12:47
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ivan |
backblaze is doing it wrong (internet commenter can assume they have excessive vibration?), and yet they fail 1% of the time? |
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12:47
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ivan |
2015 comment is motivated by the large number of 3TB Seagate failures and people wishfully hoping it wouldn't happen to them |
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12:48
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Meroje |
warranty returns stats are worse than backblaze's imho |
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12:49
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Meroje |
I returned none of my ST3000 because why would I want more of these ? |
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12:50
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icedice |
A desktop environment and a server environment are completely different and can't be compared |
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12:50
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ivan |
uh-huh |
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12:51
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Meroje |
yet they get excellent numbers ? |
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12:52
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ivan |
put a bunch of hard drives together into a crappy case at home and you've got vibration too |
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12:52
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ivan |
do a lot of seeks for days, are you "server" now? |
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12:53
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ivan |
anyway the modern drives seem to survive suboptimal conditions just fine |
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12:56
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Meroje |
pretty sure most home cases have way more protection than backblaze chassis |
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12:56
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ivan |
heh probably |
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12:58
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Meroje |
https://www.backblaze.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/blog-60-drives-ooh-aah.jpg |
|
13:00
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ivan |
boy are there going to be a lot of cheap hard drives available when flash finally eats everything |
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13:01
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icedice |
https://www.tweaktown.com/articles/6028/dispelling-backblaze-s-hdd-reliability-myth-the-real-story-covered/index3.html |
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13:03
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ivan |
you're linking to an article by a guy who has basically published Seagate press releases. what do you think the odds are of Seagate feeding him this as well? |
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13:04
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Meroje |
the ST3000 incident was very real |
|
13:04
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ivan |
"HDD Reliability Myth - The Real Story Covered" sounds like something a PR drone would feed |
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13:04
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icedice |
How am I supposed to know what the motivations of the writer of an article is? |
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13:05
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|
icedice |
I just tried to find some article about vibration in BackBlaze's storage pods |
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13:05
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icedice |
Anyway, for the record: Fuck Seagate |
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13:05
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ivan |
well you can form good guesses with inference on the contents and author |
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13:05
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ivan |
"This paints them in a very unforgiving light due to obvious chassis issues, with a misleading annual failure rate of 25.4% that would surely put Seagate out of business, if it were realistic." |
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13:05
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icedice |
Never trusting that brand |
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13:07
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JAA |
"Fuck Seagate" sounds like something someone would say who owned 10 ST3000DM001s, had them fail, and then swore to never, ever buy Seagate drives again. |
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13:07
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JAA |
Modern Seagate drives are fine. |
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13:07
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icedice |
I remember reading a post on Overclock.net from someone who's brother works at Seagate and the brother had warned him to "not buy Seagate right now", or something like that |
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13:07
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icedice |
I don't trust Seagate |
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13:09
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icedice |
10.00% RMAs for Seagate Desktop HDD 6TB and 6.78% RMAs for Seagate Enterprise NAS HDD 6TB is not ok |
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13:09
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JAA |
Neither do I. I don't trust any other company either. That's why I have drives from multiple brands and backups. |
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13:09
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JAA |
Where are those numbers from? |
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13:10
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icedice |
Yeah, I'm planning on getting a Glyph BlackBox Pro 6TB eventually to use for backups |
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13:10
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icedice |
https://www.hardware.fr/articles/962-6/disques-durs.html |
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13:11
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JAA |
Sample size of 100 to 200 drives. Okay then... |
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13:13
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JAA |
In fact, all models for which they report a failure rate (ok, RMA rate) of over 3 % have such a small sample size. So yeah... |
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13:22
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icedice |
I'd be all for trying HGST though, but I don't think they have head parking |
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13:23
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icedice |
And I think all of their 6TB HDDs are sever/NAS drives, which means that they probably have error recovery control |
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13:27
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JAA |
Yeah, I don't think there are any consumer drives from "HGST". |
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13:28
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JAA |
I put quotes around that because HGST is just a brand of WD, several WD drives are actually rebranded HGST drives (e.g. WD Reds 8+ TB), and the HGST brand is being phased out. |
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13:38
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ivan |
https://www.hgst.com/products/hard-drives mobile drives might be consumer enough |
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13:38
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13:41
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JAA |
Not 6 TB though. |
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13:48
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icedice |
Yeah |
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13:48
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icedice |
If I was using RAID I'd probably use HGST or WD Gold |
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13:48
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icedice |
But since I'm not I'll probably go for a WD Black 6TB 256MB |
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13:49
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icedice |
I was also considering Toshiba X300 6TB, but that one is apparently loud af |
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13:50
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icedice |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlpyF8anf8A&t=1m29s |
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13:51
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kiska |
So this is mostly anecdotal but I work with the NSW Department of Education and Training on casual basis. We purchased 12 Seagate Exos x12 12TB helium drives from Seagate themselves for a pilot test |
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13:51
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kiska |
Within 6 months we had 7 of those 12 drives fail completely |
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13:52
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13:56
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kiska |
btw this is the model: ST12000NM0027 |
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14:14
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14:25
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14:27
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14:40
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bakJAA |
Colosolutions pls |
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14:51
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astrid |
i run a raid5 of three different brands of 8T |
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14:51
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astrid |
lightly loaded |
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14:51
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astrid |
about a year now |
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14:51
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astrid |
ok, six months. |
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14:52
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astrid |
no errors yet reported by zfs; i've got 4.6T of data in it |
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14:58
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15:25
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15:26
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15:26
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15:27
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18:24
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19:01
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20:47
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20:47
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21:22
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21:35
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ivan |
JAA: want to own grab-site? I'm bored of it |
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21:36
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Flashfire |
Hey Ivan can grabsite be configured to upload to FOS or directly to the IA |
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21:38
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ivan |
you can't upload your grab-site WARCs to FOS because I believe SketchCow wants ArchiveBot WARCs |
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21:38
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ivan |
I can link you to an uploader for uploading to IA |
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21:40
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ivan |
https://gist.github.com/ivan/079530350ac94851d581b55b1d372440 you may have to make changes, good luck |
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21:42
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JAA |
ivan: I would like to merge grab-site with ArchiveBot eventually; that would make maintaining it essentially trivial since it would be a by-product of maintaining ArchiveBot (which likely won't go away for a while). As for taking grab-site over, I've never used it, so not sure how much sense that makes. (I always used plain wpull.) |
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21:43
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ivan |
oh ok I didn't realize |
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21:44
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ivan |
you just seemed like the only person doing some wpull programming |
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21:45
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JAA |
Yeah, that's true. |
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21:45
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JAA |
I should pick it up again. Haven't worked on it in over half a year. |
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21:45
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JAA |
Getting it stable enough for a version 2.1.0 that is actually usable is the goal. |
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21:46
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ivan |
grab-site does a bunch of stuff to avoid thinking about all the wpull arguments one might want to archive a website. if you have different opinions, maybe it can be salvaged and adapted to your preferences. |
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21:48
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JAA |
I just found that I had to write custom code anyway in 99 % of the cases where I couldn't just throw it into ArchiveBot. |
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21:48
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ivan |
it sounds like your archiving is of the sort where you actually try to archive it properly |
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21:48
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ivan |
mine is the kind where I just toss in websites and hope for the best |
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21:49
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JAA |
Heavily scripted sites, special ignores/filters that depend on the parent URL, stuff like that. |
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21:49
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JAA |
Yeah, I try to grab it as close to the real traffic from a browser as feasible, essentially. |
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21:50
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JAA |
Well, if I care enough. There are definitely cases where I just throw it into ArchiveBot and hope it works. |
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21:51
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JAA |
If I care enough and have time for it. |
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22:42
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