| Time |
Nickname |
Message |
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00:04
🔗
|
JAA |
jason0597: I think throwing HDDs into cold storage for 10 to 20 years will end in data loss unless you use very high redundancy. |
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00:06
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jason0597 |
JAA: why is that? |
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00:06
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JAA |
Also, there's not only aging (e.g. lubricant drying out) to consider but also the interface. I know I'd have a hard time trying to read any IDE drive nowadays. Although the hardware for that is pretty easy to get even nowadays, it's still something to keep in mind. SATA won't stay around forever. |
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00:07
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|
JAA |
If you want cold storage for a few decades, look into tapes. |
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00:07
🔗
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JAA |
They're designed for exactly that use case. |
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00:07
🔗
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JAA |
LTO is typically rated for 30 years storage in a cool and dry location. |
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00:08
🔗
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jason0597 |
i thought about tape but the equipment to read/write to it is quite expensive and it only makes sense if you have tens of terabytes to store |
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00:09
🔗
|
JAA |
Personally though, I'd never go the full "time capsule" route. Instead, I'd make sure from time to time (e.g. once per year) that the data is still intact. And keep multiple copies so it's possible to recover if one goes bad. |
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00:09
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JAA |
Yeah, that's true. |
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00:09
🔗
|
jason0597 |
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seagate-Barracuda-internal-silver-ST2000DM006-x/dp/B01ICLGJF8/ref=sr_1_3?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1546387768&sr=1-3&keywords=2tb+hard+drive |
|
00:09
🔗
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jason0597 |
was thinking of a couple of these |
|
00:10
🔗
|
JAA |
If you do check on the data once per year or every few years, you can also plan ahead when you see things like interface changes and migrate in time instead of having to hunt down ancient hardware later. |
|
00:10
🔗
|
jason0597 |
true |
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00:10
🔗
|
benjins |
Have newer file systems like btrfs been tested for long-term storage? |
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00:12
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00:13
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jason0597 |
on another note, is there some standardised way to archive an entire youtube channel? (videos, descriptions, ratings, comments, etc) |
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00:13
🔗
|
hook54321 |
benjins: how long has btrfs been around? |
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00:14
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benjins |
Like 5-10 years? |
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00:14
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hook54321 |
Then at a maximum it has been tested for 5-10 years. |
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00:15
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benjins |
ha, true |
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00:16
🔗
|
hook54321 |
However, I doubt many institutions that deal with extremely important data have adopted it. |
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00:22
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|
JAA |
Btrfs was first released almost 10 years ago. Linux 2.6.29 in March 2009 according to Wikipedia. |
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00:23
🔗
|
JAA |
I wouldn't be terribly worried about not being able to read from Btrfs in a decade or two, but I'd still stick to ext* for such storage probably. |
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00:24
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|
JAA |
Btrfs and ZFS obviously have the huge advantage of being able to detect bit rot. You'd have to deal with that manually when using more or less any other file system. |
|
00:25
🔗
|
JAA |
So it comes down to "will I be able to pop a disk with Btrfs written today into a machine in a decade and read from it?". |
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00:25
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kode54 |
had someone who followed me on Mastodon, their only post thus far had been a question about a Dropbox replacement |
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00:25
🔗
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hook54321 |
My concern with it is that it hasn't been around as long, so I'm thinking it might be more likely to have bugs. |
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00:25
🔗
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kode54 |
apparently, Dropbox for Linux only supports ext4 now, for dumb reasons |
|
00:26
🔗
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kode54 |
(it wants xattrs, and doesn't know how to expect those on any other fs) |
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00:26
🔗
|
JAA |
hook54321: Oh sure, there might be bugs. But the on-disk format is stable since a few years ago, so it should be possible to read a Btrfs file system for decades to come. |
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00:26
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kode54 |
said person was reporting how Dropbox refuses to work with their encrypted ext4 |
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00:27
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hook54321 |
Oh. Hmm. I mean like, I've seen stuff been considered stable... until another bug is found in it. |
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00:27
🔗
|
* |
hook54321 shrugd |
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00:27
🔗
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kode54 |
I was going to suggest NextCloud, but then they'd need their own server to host it |
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00:27
🔗
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hook54321 |
*shrugs |
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00:27
🔗
|
JAA |
Yeah, right. Still, I'd be surprised if that meant it would be impossible to mount old file systems, even if there are bugs in the on-disk format or something like that. |
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00:28
🔗
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hook54321 |
Ah |
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00:30
🔗
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kode54 |
FS drivers usually include support for several, if not all, old versions going forward, if only for read support |
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00:30
🔗
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kode54 |
if they don't intend to support old writing, they'll provide a means to upgrade the FS data that needs upgrading |
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00:31
🔗
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kode54 |
ZFS handily notifies you if your storage is missing any new functionality and offer to let you upgrade to match your current system software |
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00:31
🔗
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kode54 |
I don't know what Btrfs does in that regard, as I haven't been using that for very long |
|
00:51
🔗
|
JAA |
Well, there's this: https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/FAQ#How_do_I_upgrade_to_the_2.6.31_format.3F |
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00:52
🔗
|
JAA |
And also this: https://btrfs.wiki.kernel.org/index.php/Status#On-disk_format |
|
00:53
🔗
|
JAA |
"If a backward compatibility is not possible to maintain, a bit in the filesystem superblock denotes that and the level of incompatibility (full, read-only mount possible)." |
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00:53
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JAA |
As expected :-) |
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00:54
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00:58
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02:30
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02:39
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paul2520 |
I setup a warrior on a spare laptop. Set it to run on ArchiveTeam's choice. Has been running for ~3 hrs with "No item received." from the wiki, the best I can tell is that my IP might be blocked due to my ISP? |
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02:41
🔗
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paul2520 |
I'll let it run overnight & check back in the morning. |
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02:41
🔗
|
Flashfire |
paul2520 Switch to url team |
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02:41
🔗
|
Flashfire |
The current project is out of items |
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02:49
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02:51
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Kaz |
fixed |
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02:52
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02:57
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JAA |
So Twitter launched the redesign they were testing a few months ago (July according to my logs), it seems. Or at least I get that redesign currently. Now they also have a fucking "join Twitter now!!!" thing that pops up when you scroll down. Meh... And of course it breaks snscrape. |
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02:59
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03:03
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JAA |
They also send weird invalid HTML now (no closing </body> and </html> tags) and use React. Depends on the UA though; you get a different response with curl. |
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13:20
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paul2520 |
thanks Flashfire / Kaz. Looks like it's been running for url team |
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13:21
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paul2520 |
this is exciting -- glad I can be using that machine for something & contributing to the work y'all do! |
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13:21
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Kaz |
glad it's working now, cheers for letting us know! |
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