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01:10
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kpcyrd |
boring: we're running out of ipv4 addresses. hot: we're running out of twitter handles |
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01:13
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* |
kpcyrd suggesting #TwitterIsFull, although there's probably a channel already |
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01:21
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01:22
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Video |
i just found a web server that has a lot of linux-related mirror files |
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markedL |
really, I don't want one. https://medium.com/@N/how-i-lost-my-50-000-twitter-username-24eb09e026dd |
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11:22
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magus_bgf |
Is anyone here working on actually restoring websites, rather than just archiving? |
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11:31
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12:10
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12:17
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JAA |
magus_bgf (if you read logs): We don't even really have enough time to deal with saving the stuff, so generally, nobody here restores things. Besides, our archives all go into the Wayback Machine, which usually provides at least a somewhat usable display. |
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12:49
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markedL |
Internet Trash Heap did a little playback |
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12:52
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prq |
I have restored one or two websites. it isn't a very scalable endeavor. |
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12:55
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JAA |
Yeah, probably takes more effort than the archival. |
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12:56
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JAA |
The best route is to improve the playback in pywb and similar tools. And of course the WBM, but the code isn't open, so that has to be done by IA staff. |
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12:57
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prq |
I have thought about running my own pywb instance for stuff I archive. |
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12:57
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prq |
this one job I started weeks ago is still going. :/ |
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12:58
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JAA |
Hehe, try months. Hell, we have an ArchiveBot job that has its first anniversary in a few days. |
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12:58
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prq |
I feel like there's several optimizations I could make to this one job that would help immensely-- run a different wget command for different parts of the tree |
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12:58
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12:58
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prq |
does that mean that job has been running in the same exact process for a year? |
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12:58
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JAA |
Yeah, another reason why wpull is better than wget: it has parallelism. |
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12:58
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prq |
or is it a distributed job that's been running on multiple machines? |
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12:59
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JAA |
Single process on one machine. |
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12:59
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prq |
wow |
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12:59
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prq |
yeah, I want to do OS maintenance on the machine this job is running on. :/ |
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12:59
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JAA |
Distributed recursive crawling is a tricky problem. |
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12:59
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prq |
indeed it is. |
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12:59
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JAA |
First you have coordination, but that's easily solvable with a central URL database. |
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12:59
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prq |
I feel like it should be very doable with a queue |
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13:00
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prq |
rabbitmq or even redis |
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13:00
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JAA |
But then you run into sessions and cookies tied to IP addresses etc. |
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13:00
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JAA |
And it gets messy very quickly. |
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13:00
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prq |
right-- many sites don't tie cookies to an ip. the ones I care about for this sphere of concern I have don't. |
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13:01
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JAA |
Well yeah, it can work very well for individual sites, but doing it for the general case is hard. |
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13:01
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JAA |
It's why ArchiveBot isn't distributed in that sense. |
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13:01
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prq |
so opting in to a strategy that favors one ip vs not would be ideal. |
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13:01
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prq |
and I could still run a distributed crawl, but put them all behind the same NAT'd wan ip |
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13:01
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prq |
or run 100 threads on the same machine |
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13:02
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prq |
or whatever |
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13:02
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JAA |
Well yes, if you have the right tool for it. |
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13:02
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JAA |
wget doesn't have any way to share its URL queue. wpull is single-threaded and doesn't handle DB locking at all. Not sure about other tools. |
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13:03
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JAA |
Also, going highly parallel from a single IP only works if there are no rate limit issues. |
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13:03
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JAA |
That year-long AB job I just mentioned has to go slow because otherwise the server collapses. |
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13:06
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kiskaWee |
Which one is it? The gamefaq one? |
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13:06
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JAA |
mozdev.org |
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13:06
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kiskaWee |
Oh xD |
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13:08
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markedL |
queue management is something I really want all tools to have different strategies for |
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13:09
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markedL |
wget is probably the most entrenched example |
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13:09
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prq |
yeah, it sounds more and more like the ability to pick a strategy would be ideal. |
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13:09
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prq |
the job I'm doing seems to have *maybe* some mild ratelimiting, but it seems to be applied unevenly. |
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13:09
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13:11
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prq |
some sections of the site I could generate every URL for easily without relying on the wget crawl mechanism. |
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13:12
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prq |
looking at their robots.txt, they seem to disallow some stuff that ought to be captured. weird. |
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13:14
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kiskaWee |
23:17:35 |
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13:14
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kiskaWee |
<@JAA>magus_bgf (if you read logs): We don't even really have enough time to deal with saving the stuff, so generally, nobody here restores things. Besides, our archives all go into the Wayback Machine, which usually provides at least a somewhat usable display. |
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13:14
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kiskaWee |
Oh xD |
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13:14
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13:19
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magus_bgf |
@kiskaWee thanks |
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13:19
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magus_bgf |
shame to hear that, of course |
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13:20
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JAA |
magus_bgf: There was a bit of a discussion after that message above, check the logs: https://archive.fart.website/bin/irclogger_log/archiveteam-ot?date=2019-11-27,Wed |
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13:20
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13:20
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JAA |
(Well, just a few sentences about that question.) |
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13:20
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markedL |
WBM is not super performant but is decently stable . It would be hard to beat that combination |
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13:22
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markedL |
if I wanted to "fix" something, I'd be curious whether tampermonkey to improve the playback on certain grabs but still from WBM |
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13:23
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JAA |
That could work except for the security issues. |
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13:25
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13:26
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JAA |
Well, shit: https://bugs.python.org/issue36338#msg355322 |
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13:26
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13:26
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13:26
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13:26
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13:27
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13:28
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JAA |
Er, wrong channel. |
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13:30
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magus_bgf |
Read the log, too, thank you. IA is great of course, but I'd like to do better than "somewhat usable". |
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13:32
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JAA |
Yeah, and I'm sure many people would be willing to work on that if it were possible. |
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13:32
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JAA |
But I doubt the WBM code is going to be released anytime soon, if ever. |
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13:33
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JAA |
Based on my tests and from what I've heard, pywb works significantly better than the WBM for JavaScript-heavy playback. |
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13:33
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JAA |
But for some things, you'll always need some sort of fix scripts that remove or mangle certain URL components. |
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13:33
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JAA |
For example, if the current timestamp is included in a URL. |
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13:34
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JAA |
*Maybe* it's possible to build an archival browser that records and plays back any JS API calls that aren't constant. |
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13:35
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JAA |
But that would be a *lot* of work obviously. |
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13:36
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JAA |
Plus you'd need to use that patched browser for playback because you can't override many of those APIs dynamically. |
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13:37
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markedL |
you mean same URL that gives 2 different results? |
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13:38
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JAA |
No, I mean "cache busting" parameters like https://example.org/something?time=1574861908 |
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13:39
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JAA |
Common for example for JSON API requests launched from jQuery. |
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13:39
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JAA |
(I think the parameter is _ there.) |
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18:01
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markedL |
oh, the opposite. 2 urls that look different that should be the same. |
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