#archiveteam-ot 2019-12-21,Sat

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02:06 🔗 pnJay wonder if you can use amazon giftcards for AWS
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03:18 🔗 kpcyrd hrhr
03:19 🔗 kpcyrd I've heard you can use prepaid credit cards but never verified it
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04:29 🔗 ivan TIL of the nitter twitter frontend from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21848468
04:29 🔗 ivan https://nitter.net/
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12:04 🔗 jodizzle Nice. I've been using no JS twitter, but this might be better.
12:16 🔗 jodizzle Scratch "might", it's definitely better.
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15:17 🔗 Frogging I guess Twitter archiving is a bit more of a pain now that they put tweets with replies behind a login wall
15:17 🔗 Frogging they've been doing that for a long time, but yeah
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16:49 🔗 JAA Frogging: You mean https://twitter.com/USER/with_replies I guess? Those can still be found through the search, which also avoids the stupid limit of 3200 tweets on the profile page (but unfortunately doesn't find retweets).
16:51 🔗 Frogging JAA: Yeah, that.
16:51 🔗 Frogging Good to know that about the search
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21:49 🔗 ivan https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/edhzsv/bestbuy_wd_easystore_14tb_shucked/
21:51 🔗 ivan so much speculation about whether the 5400 RPM drives could run at 7200 RPM :-)
21:55 🔗 JAA :-)
21:55 🔗 JAA I volunteer to play around with a few to test it. :-P
22:01 🔗 Raccoon Why stop at 7200 RPM??
22:02 🔗 ivan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Digital_Raptor
22:04 🔗 ivan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFM1kp_E03E&t=3m40s
22:07 🔗 JAA Meh, 15k rpm disks are/were a thing as well.
22:08 🔗 JAA Seagate Cheetah for example.
22:09 🔗 Raccoon the Atari 2600 5200 and 7800 were also things. they would have made for better RPMs I'm betting.
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22:10 🔗 Myself haha, that's me commenting in that thread
22:12 🔗 Raccoon hi Chris
22:12 🔗 Myself I don't personally care for high RPM drives; I miss the old 3600's, they were nice and quiet. Wish I cound underspin a 5400 even further :P but I have a feeling the heads woud fly so low I'd need to seismically isolate the poor thing.
22:12 🔗 Raccoon I too bought the lower speed Maxtors on purpose.
22:13 🔗 JAA Yup, heat was one reason why I went with Reds instead of Red Pro.
22:13 🔗 Myself Quantum Bigfoot, anyone? The last of the 5.25" platters.
22:14 🔗 Myself What do y'all do for storage? I'm a pleb with a secondhand Drobo that I occasionally throw rust into.
22:16 🔗 ivan shuck He8, tape over the reset pins, mkfs.xfs
22:17 🔗 ivan so uh 'nixos on a computer' with some nfs exports and apache
22:17 🔗 Raccoon I buy a couple of these whenever they dip to $89/ea every few months. 5TB came out in September. I prefer offline shelf storage. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07X41PWTY/
22:18 🔗 Raccoon hoping to find out if they still hold data in 30 years
22:19 🔗 ivan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QcMpPyUzlQ nice 15K RPM sounds
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22:19 🔗 Raccoon comes at like a 20% premium versus shucked disks.
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22:19 🔗 Myself Thinking the heliums won't, unless you store them in a helium chamber for most of those years. It's gonna diffuse out. We'll see!
22:20 🔗 Raccoon are they putting helium in 2.5" drives? i dunno.
22:20 🔗 Myself I don't know, actually! If not yet, probably soon.
22:20 🔗 ivan hard drives are not for holding data for 30 years
22:20 🔗 Raccoon ivan: not for, but can do
22:21 🔗 Raccoon until we get those optical petacubes they keep promising
22:21 🔗 Myself I just booted up a 2002-era WD1200JB for grins. Now to recover the password..
22:21 🔗 Myself I've got a handful of magneto-optical media and drives, I should store something on them and write down the date.
22:22 🔗 Raccoon fill it with 0x55 or 0xAA then scan it every so often
22:23 🔗 Myself 230MB is hardly impressive, but it should be nice and stable.
22:23 🔗 Myself longevity of the drive mechanism is much more in question
22:23 🔗 Raccoon I remember them promising optical petabyte cubes back in the 90's, before bluray lasers.
22:24 🔗 Raccoon "the size of a sugar cube"
22:27 🔗 Myself Yup, holographic information storage is always "just around the corner".
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22:28 🔗 Raccoon not even sure it qualifies as holographic, necessarily. just lasers through a CCD with an index laser that amplifies and burns at that given slice
22:30 🔗 Raccoon then i may be misunderstanding the tech. it's been some some decades since the revolutionary discovery
22:30 🔗 endrift HVDs are long dead too
22:30 🔗 endrift they died last decade
22:30 🔗 endrift when people stopped using optical media in favor of flash for a lot of stuff
22:31 🔗 Raccoon "to prove it works, this segment of video was recorded live and was played back from the cube"
22:31 🔗 Myself So annoyed that Sony never made a MiniDisc Mavica camera.
22:32 🔗 Raccoon i just want some optical format that lasts 500 years and doesn't require spooling.
22:32 🔗 endrift I wonder how terrible M-Disc is
22:33 🔗 endrift it claims to last for 1ka but I have no idea how durable it actually is
22:39 🔗 JAA If you want DVDs, yeah, look into M-Discs. If you want BDs, don't bother with them.
22:42 🔗 Myself Why's that?
22:43 🔗 JAA Standard DVDs use organic dyes, which aren't very stable in the long term. M-Discs replaced them with inorganic dyes that last much longer.
22:43 🔗 JAA Standard BDs already use inorganic dyes and are typically rated for hundreds of years.
22:44 🔗 Myself Ahh, so paying more for an m-disc doesn't buy you much..
22:44 🔗 JAA Yup
22:44 🔗 Myself Maybe physical construction? I remember early CD-R's "rotting" when the layers would separate. I wonder how BDs compare to M-disc BDs in that regard.
22:45 🔗 JAA The tests I've seen didn't really show any differences unless you literally threw them into boiling water.
22:45 🔗 JAA So yeah, might be slightly more durable in some very extreme scenarois.
22:45 🔗 JAA scenarios*
22:45 🔗 Myself Ahh. And we all know, you have to put them into lukewarm water and then slowly increase the temperature, otherwise they jump out.
22:46 🔗 JAA But overall, the ridiculously higher price isn't really worth it.
22:46 🔗 Myself Makes sense!
22:46 🔗 JAA Chances are there won't be any BD drives anymore in a few decades anyway.
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22:47 🔗 JAA "Store and forget about it" just doesn't work with digital data at all. You need to stay on top of new technology at least every decade anyway, otherwise you're going to have a hard time if you ever want to recover it.
22:49 🔗 Myself Yup. What'd be nice is a standard.... "filesystem" might not be quite the right word ... something like Parchive perhaps ... that would allow you to automatically repair corrupted data as you do that copy-to-new-media. There are lots of ways to do that, but they all seem to be niche software last maintained in 2006
22:49 🔗 endrift "Why can't I access my HFS data anymore?"
22:50 🔗 Myself instead of leaving that up to the filesystem/raid/whatever, which will invariably cock it up and render the whole thing unreadable
22:50 🔗 Myself and which leaves the data unproted in-flight to the new media
22:51 🔗 Myself (see, there was a corruption between my brain and keyboard, because the word "unprotected" didn't have a checksum.)
22:52 🔗 Frogging Verify before and after?
22:53 🔗 ivan I see that someone is archiving a lot of Twitter
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23:17 🔗 SketchCow yes
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23:54 🔗 Myself Okay, so a lot of ISPs do evil shit like DNS "helping" for invalid domains, http session hijacking (to tell me about upcoming maintence, how sweet!), and apparently malware filtering too, which I've just heard about for the first time.
23:55 🔗 Myself I think I've opted out of every bit of that crap that I can, but I wonder, is there a test suite to be sure? Say, this-is-always-malware.example.com/testmyshit.html
23:55 🔗 Myself like an HTTP version of Eicar, I suppose
23:57 🔗 JAA By "malware filtering", I mean a "feature" that "protects" people from accessing domains known to be associated with malware. I've never seen it before myself because I've always been with proper ISPs, but I've heard about it.
23:58 🔗 JAA OpenDNS and Quad9 have this, for example. (Quad9 also offers an "unprotected" DNS server that doesn't.)
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