#archiveteam-ot 2018-08-20,Mon

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09:22 ๐Ÿ”— JAA Ooh, TIL that Python 2 will *finally* reach EOL on 2020-01-01. It's about time.
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14:10 ๐Ÿ”— phuzion JAA: and yet, it will remain in use for another century.
14:14 ๐Ÿ”— tyzoid There're already forks/alternate interpreters for python that say that they'll continue supporting it beyond 2020
14:14 ๐Ÿ”— tyzoid 2020 is just EOL for the standard python interpreter
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14:21 ๐Ÿ”— JAA Good enough for me.
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14:54 ๐Ÿ”— astrid geez. some people cannot just let go.
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15:46 ๐Ÿ”— schbirid2 it's like they're frozen
15:59 ๐Ÿ”— arkiver Iยดve been doing a lot in Python 2, and didnยดt start doing much with Python 3 until recently (1.5 years or so)
16:00 ๐Ÿ”— arkiver The biggest advantage of Python 3 is how it now handles encoding
16:01 ๐Ÿ”— arkiver I would not want to go back to Python 2
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16:13 ๐Ÿ”— JAA Yeah, that's definitely the elephant in the room, but I also strongly prefer the exception handling, new-style classes without inheriting from object explicitly, and proper division of Python 3.
16:13 ๐Ÿ”— JAA And range and map being generators.
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17:11 ๐Ÿ”— ivan I recommend trying a language with pattern matching and protocols/traits and macros for a few months and seeing if Python still looks like an acceptable language
17:30 ๐Ÿ”— JAA ivan: Which languages are you thinking of?
17:34 ๐Ÿ”— ivan Clojure, Elixir, Rust, but plenty of other languages that I'm less familiar with like Haskell
17:35 ๐Ÿ”— ivan if you come to expect those three things (or more) the big differences between the new options are polytyped vs unityped http://theorangeduck.com/page/defence-unitype and GC/runtime vs no GC/runtime
17:41 ๐Ÿ”— ivan I've been using Elixir for a few years but I'm looking at Rust again now that it's more mature and I desire less runtime
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17:49 ๐Ÿ”— JAA Yeah, I have zero experience with those languages. I also lack the motivation to try out a new language currently, to be honest.
17:51 ๐Ÿ”— JAA And one thing I really like about Python (which is also briefly touched on in that article you linked) is its clean basic syntax. It looks like pseudo-code, forces you to reveal the structure of the code through the indentation, and there is no begin/end spam around code blocks.
17:52 ๐Ÿ”— JAA I'm sure there are other languages out there that would satisfy this as well, but that's definitely a big advantage of Python in my opinion.
18:01 ๐Ÿ”— ivan one of things you get from working in a language with a good type checker is a feedback loop that tells you if you refactored or used something wrong before your program blows up at runtime
18:01 ๐Ÿ”— ivan you can often just make some crazy change you want and keep fixing compiler errors until it works
18:03 ๐Ÿ”— ivan as programs scale up that can be a killer feature that outweighs clean-looking code
18:05 ๐Ÿ”— ivan the other thing you get is being able to fit a lot more data into memory because you've got structs instead of hashmaps everywhere
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18:07 ๐Ÿ”— ivan (I restricted "good type checker" to polytyped languages there because the ones that get bolted on like typescript and mypy are not so great)
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18:34 ๐Ÿ”— JAA I agree, (proper) type checkers can be very useful.
18:36 ๐Ÿ”— JAA The memory (and, in at least some cases, computational) efficiency point is very dependent on what you do. I didn't have to care about this too much in any of my recent projects - except in one case, where I ended up implementing a Python extension in C.
18:46 ๐Ÿ”— JAA I also just had to think of something semi-related: I once read about how we should really just completely reconsider the way we write code because the current way is very error-prone and can never (?) guarantee that the code actually does what it claims to do (i.e. there is no way to prove its correctness in the general case). So instead of writing (more or less directly) machine code, we should
18:46 ๐Ÿ”— JAA write complete specifications and let the computer generate the machine code from that. There's a name for this concept, but I can't remember it right now.
18:53 ๐Ÿ”— tyzoid Genetic Coding, IIRC
18:53 ๐Ÿ”— tyzoid that said, your tests need to be *very* specific.
18:54 ๐Ÿ”— tyzoid otherwise it'll likely be horribly insecure
18:54 ๐Ÿ”— tyzoid In general, good code does what it's designed to do quickly and efficiently
18:54 ๐Ÿ”— tyzoid Secure code does what it's designed to do, and only what it's designed to do.
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