[03:11] hey [03:11] berlios is going down [03:11] is there a channel for that yet? [03:13] o [03:13] someone emailed already, awesome [03:14] perfinion: dunno if there's a channel [03:14] well if the email comes through there isnt really a project needed [03:14] true :) [03:15] it'd be good to get ForgePlucker finished, though [03:15] wassat? for sourceforge? [03:15] scraper written by esr for anything derived from sourceforge, yes [03:17] _the_ esr? [03:18] yes [03:18] nice [03:18] ironically, he started the project because berlios went down for a few days [03:18] oh thats what that quote above was from [03:18] yea [03:18] makes more sense now [03:18] heh [03:21] do we have any idea how big sf is ? [03:21] it seems like that one would be a challange [03:23] could be [03:23] not sure how big it is [03:31] sourceforge is on the Fire Drill page http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Fire_Drill [03:31] but i don't know about any active effort towards a live mirror [03:35] oh i dont think we need a live mirror [03:35] just mirror it every few months again [03:40] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCPlczI3k-c [03:40] so a delayed live mirror [03:40] I can't help but imagine a large wodden trunk with those legs [03:41] wooden [04:07] SketchCow: I hope you heard about BerliOS [04:07] basically, it's time to mirror it [04:07] we've been talking about it [04:07] ok [04:07] we need a list of project names [04:07] you can't scrape the site for that? [04:08] presumably [04:08] and we need to work on ForgePlucker; it doesn't save everything yet [04:08] well we have only two months [04:08] balrog: well actually the *first* step is emailing them, which has been done. but then preparations to grab stuff should be done just in case. [04:09] this is Fraunhofer. They said there isn't enough financial support from the community [04:09] I don't count on them changing the closing date [04:11] balrog: oh i mean they've been emailed about providing data to archive.org themselves [04:11] ahh. [04:11] which is easier then a bunch of people downloading it [04:12] yeah [04:12] if they won't then we gotta dl [04:12] I hope someone gets to mac.com / me.com stuff though [04:12] Apple set a June 2012 deadline [04:12] and there's quite a lot [04:12] hmm i haven't heard about that [04:12] balrog: they're deleting it, not transitioning? [04:12] they're not transitioning the idisk and webspace stuff [04:13] http://www.apple.com/mobileme/transition.html [04:13] db48x: btw for project names: http://sourcewell.berlios.de/index.php?by=Name&cnt=0 [04:13] "iWeb publishing" -- not available [04:13] db48x: cnt=10, cnt=20, etc [04:13] What happens to the iWeb sites that I’ve published to MobileMe? [04:13] You will be able to continue publishing iWeb sites to MobileMe through June 30, 2012, even after moving to iCloud. With iWeb you can easily move a site published to MobileMe to another web hosting service and you should do so before that date. Please read this article for details. [04:13] balrog: oh yeah, abandoned sites could get deleted. that wouldn't be good. [04:13] yup [04:15] I'm just reminding people, so everyone doesn't try pulling it all at the deadline [04:16] if people were to start now, then it's likely it would all be pulled by the deadling [04:16] deadline* [04:16] balrog: is there anything about mac.com / me.com on the wiki? [04:16] doubt it. [04:16] nope [04:16] that would be good to have if there isn't, esp if it's been known for a while [04:17] db48x: this is the last page afaict: http://sourcewell.berlios.de/index.php?by=Name&cnt=5440 [04:17] it's been known since july [04:17] balrog: hmm yeah. there needs to be a page and stuff on that then [04:18] arrith: if you don't mind doing it, please go ahead. I wish I had more time :/ [04:18] one thing i'm worried about is all the stuff not directly part of a project that's on berlios.de [04:18] arrith: like? [04:18] balrog: i'll see what i can do [04:18] ok, thanks! [04:18] FYI [04:18] the idisk stuff isn't directly scrapable. there are tricks to do it though. [04:19] balrog: everything in the sidebar on the left of the homepage of http://berlios.de that isn't the sourcewell [04:19] balrog: anything you could write up and pastebin, i'll put on the wiki if you want [04:19] I mentioned it before, and someone here produced a script that got xml of the idisk stuff [04:19] I'm about to leave, unfortunately [04:19] ah alright [04:19] also, can't that be whetted? [04:19] wgetted* [04:20] the berlios.de or idisk? [04:20] since probably yes to both [04:20] the berlios.de [04:20] idisk, not directly [04:20] ah [04:20] some tricks will have to be used [04:20] well someone has to do it with the hdd space and bandwidth capable [04:20] hopefully people on the AT qualify [04:20] try http://homepage.mac.com/mac_vieuxnez/FileSharing16.html for example [04:22] balrog: http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Deathwatch [04:22] mentions "iweb". is very short, but at least it's not totally unknown. [04:22] ok. [04:23] well "may shut down" isn't really the case, it's more like "most likely will shut down" [04:25] yeah, should be edited [04:25] should be under Pining for the Fjords not pre-emptive [04:25] balrog: do you know of any public announcement of the iweb / mac.com / me.com stuff? [04:25] arrith: yeah, that web page is pretty clear [04:25] http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4597 [04:25] the announcement was at the 2011 WWDC keynote [04:25] they just left iWeb/mac.com/me.com out of iCloud [04:26] anyway on that page, there's a chart [04:26] "MobileMe Service: iWeb Publishing / iDisk" — "Available in iCloud: No" [04:26] see it? [04:26] and "your service has been extended through June 30, 2012, at no additional charge. After that date, the MobileMe service will no longer be available." [04:26] yeah [04:27] I think that's pretty lcear [04:27] clear* [04:31] hrm, berlios is more complicated than I realized [04:32] ForgePlucker only handles developer.berlios.de, really [04:32] sourcewell is related though [04:33] compare http://sourcewell.berlios.de/appbyid.php?id=3545 with http://developer.berlios.de/projects/eskil/ [04:35] there is a lot of stuff :/ [04:35] there are also the bug trackers [04:36] bbl night [04:36] later balrog [04:37] oh [04:37] sourcewell seemed to be where the hosted projects were, if they have a different system for each that's pretty wild [04:38] sourcewell is only announcements, it seems [04:38] similar to Freshmeat [04:39] developer is where you would actually host a project, with a source code repository, mailing list, bug tracker, etc [04:39] ah, good to know [04:40] i assumed those entries were linking to the actual project pages but i did not check [04:44] http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=BerliOS [04:45] progress :) [04:49] yes :) [04:50] * db48x edits [04:50] some stuff about that esr tool might be good [04:50] just in case you get hit by a bus :P [04:50] so people know it exists, and where the git fork/clone is hosted, etc [04:56] was etherpad ever archived? (the content, not the source code) [04:59] yes [04:59] early days of archiveteam :) [05:01] ah good [05:01] balrog: http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=MobileMe [05:02] oh, didn't see that [05:02] every time i think the Archive Team hasn't heard of something, turns out there's a page on the wiki for it! [05:02] balrog: yeah took me a while to find [05:02] or to think of going to it [05:02] nothing about idksk though [05:02] idisk8 [05:02] idisk**** [05:02] yeah, or iweb [05:02] well kind of iweb, just doesn't mention iweb specifically [05:02] iWeb is the same as homepage.mac.com / web.me.com [05:02] iDisk isn't [05:06] right [05:10] Back [05:11] SketchCow: wb, BerliOS and MobileMe seem to be the items of the day [05:11] I see that. [05:11] I endorse all of them [05:11] good to hear [05:13] hm people seem to mix up "Pre-emptive Alarmbells" and "Pining for the Fjords" a lot on the Deathwatch page [05:13] That said, I think BerliOS has the greatest chance of us getting it. [05:14] SketchCow: I have a contact who is involved in Sun stuff and was in contact with schily among others [05:14] will ping him [05:17] anyone mind if i put "Pining for the Fjords" above "Pre-emptive Alarmbells" ? [05:17] since i think people mistake higher on the page for more important [05:17] in terms of how close to death a site/service/etc is [05:19] uh oh [05:20] Message from syslogd@celebdil at Sep 30 22:19:25 ... [05:20] kernel:[775613.112111] Stack: [05:20] Message from syslogd@celebdil at Sep 30 22:19:25 ... [05:20] kernel:[775613.112136] Call Trace: [05:20] kernel:[775613.112359] Code: 1f 44 00 00 f0 81 07 00 00 00 01 c9 c3 55 48 89 e5 0f 1f 44 00 00 b8 00 00 01 00 f0 0f c1 07 0f b7 d0 c1 e8 10 39 c2 74 07 f3 90 <0f> b7 17 eb f5 c9 c3 55 48 89 e5 0f 1f 44 00 00 8b 07 89 c2 c1 [05:20] mk i'll use my best judgment. feel free to revert if people don't like it. [05:20] it's still working as a router though, which is funny :) [05:20] db48x: that's not good [05:20] heh nice [05:20] brb, gonna bounce it [05:21] it's too wedged to reboot nicely [05:34] arrith: Try it as an experiment. [05:34] SketchCow: alright [05:42] i put a note on Talk:Deathwatch about it so it can be reverted if my hypothesis isn't correct [05:57] sheesh: http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=BerliOS#Site_Organization [05:59] BerliOS Developer has some nice features (ie Git support), but the rest of that stuff is just dead weight [06:03] * db48x yawns [06:04] maybe tomorrow I'll be able to check out the ForgePlucker source code [08:22] * DreamSale Offers Great Electronics Sale! Prices are reduced up to 50%! Laptops, PDAs, Tablet PCs and more only at X Laptops Co, Ltd. Check us out at http://XLaptops.net [08:28] b& [08:46] wooo [08:46] just did a bunch of kinda tedious wiki stuff [08:47] awesome :) [08:47] whoa [08:47] that is rather a lot [08:48] ty [08:48] i do things in bursts. like some kind of ADD hummingbird. this is my night on the AT wiki. [08:48] :) [08:48] right, one good thing for the wiki would be to get a template for {{Yes}} and {{No}} so they get autocolored green and red [08:48] I just did a bunch of edits on openstreetmap while insomniaing [08:49] nice [08:49] http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=37.90038&lon=-122.06128&zoom=16&layers=M [08:49] {{Yes}} is way easier than style="background: lightgreen" | Yes [08:50] hrm [08:50] esp if there are hundreds [08:50] and there are hundreds of wikis that should be in that table.. someday [08:50] I think that macro would have to include part of the table cell markup [08:50] but I'm all for it [08:51] yeah i'm really not sure how wikipedia does it. but somehow putting {{ }} around "Yes" and "No" colorizes them. i tried it on the AT wiki just to see what would happen and it became a broken link to Template:Yes [08:51] so maybe if i edited Template:Yes with whatever it needs it would work.. [08:51] yep [08:52] edit the Template:Yes on wikipedia and see what it does [08:52] yeah i was just going to try to find that [08:52] might just be able to copy them over in their entirty [08:52] entirety [08:53] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Yes [08:53] fancy table [08:53] lots of macros there [08:53] {{yes|Sure}} would be neat. so instead of "yes" maybe "good", "bad", "okay" for green/red/yellow [08:54] then if something is "good" it can be marked as such [08:54] yea [08:55] i should've looked into this before doing it manually hah [08:56] ah well [08:56] heh :) [09:04] you know what'd be rad [09:05] having ((SavedOn:a date)) colorize depending on how long ago that date was [09:05] oooh [09:05] dont mean to throw you off, just bikeshedding [09:05] that's a good idea [09:06] no curlies on me phone keyboard but i think you got the idea [09:06] yeah hm. would need to pick a gradient and the gradient might vary depending on how long you want the range to be. 0-3 weeks, 0-6 months, etc [09:07] ((Yes:2011-09-26)) could at least be sortable [09:07] sorting and red/green is a good first approximation [09:07] I'd do {{downloaded:2011-10-1}} [09:08] sure, whatever [09:09] but getting the date in allows us to do fancy shit later [09:09] yea [09:09] if people agree on a default date range/span, a "downloaded" template would work. otherwise it'd be {{downloadedtype1:2011-10-01}} [09:10] yyyy-mm-dd, fuck everything else. [09:11] oh i didn't mean format, just like how soon should it go from 'green' to 'red' (or whatever the colors are) [09:11] 3 weeks, 6 months, etc [09:11] oh hm [09:12] i'd see that potentially differing. unless people agree on a default, then there can be variants for less common use cases [09:12] downloaded:slow:2011-09-28 [09:12] it can be refined as we go along [09:12] slow, med, fast. [09:13] put the date first, so that the speed can be added later :) [09:13] (how fast it becomes useful to reget) [09:13] sure [09:14] a listerine-like tool (from the google video stuff) that reports to an archive team server each downloaded time then say a bot could update the wiki would be neat also [09:14] hmmmm [09:14] Infrastructure [09:23] one thing also [09:23] generally, at least the way wikipedia does it i think, is when something regularly changes they have a bot edit the page, rather than having a changing thing [09:24] that's retarded [09:24] this is just math [09:24] hah. it's 'using the wikiplatform' [09:24] er 'wikimedia platform' [09:24] it creates meaningless history changecruft [09:24] yeah.. there is that [09:24] yea [09:24] * chronomex versioning nazi [09:24] i think as a result people end up looking at only non-minor revisions [09:25] no i hear you, i'm with you on that just i'm also not a fan of javascript [09:25] some kind of javascript could probably change color, that'd be clientside [09:25] whine whine whine [09:25] the other thing i thought of is some kind of serverside php thing [09:25] it's like 4 lines [09:25] join the 21st century [09:25] well i mean if js is off then it doesn't work [09:25] hah pssh [09:25] then you get dates [09:25] no worries mate! [09:26] STILL SORTABLE [09:26] well, php might work, but that gets into the level of some kind of medawiki plugin [09:26] this is bikeshedding [09:26] yeah the thing should be sortable [09:26] javascript rocks [09:27] well i'd prefer keeping it serverside myself, but i can't say i know how to write mediawiki plugins [09:27] sorting mediawiki tables 1) is easy 2) uses js [09:27] :) [09:27] use half a webbrowser, get half an internet [09:27] alas, when I enabled it on the Friendster page it was flaky [09:27] seems fair to me! [09:27] ehh right. since that'd be kind of hard to do without js [09:28] still haven't investigated that [09:28] but a dynamic color, not necessarily [09:28] investigate and report back please. [09:28] * chronomex bedtime :) [09:29] mk, g'nite [09:29] later chronomex [10:24] So how is warrick for scraping caches to reconstruct something? [10:26] Well your IP gets a 12 hours ban from Google after about 30 minutes [10:26] so its really really slow [10:27] and I don't think it can scrape IA at the moment [10:28] Yeah, doesn't look like it. :/ But it _does_ shuffle through Yahoo and MSN^wBing's caches too and it takes no effort. [10:28] Yahoo has dropped their cache API [10:28] Oh, entirely? [10:28] Doh. [10:29] and Bing seems broken too (I have never successfully saved anything through it) [10:30] Hmm, well it looks like it managed to get a little bit at least. [13:04] What? [15:34] morning, all [15:36] SketchCow: if BerliOS doesn't get back to you, you could try contacting Jörg Schilling [15:40] that's do older irc logs exist? [15:40] (I know they're on my now-inaccessible box) [16:11] anyone? :/ [16:25] balrog: IRC logs of #archiveteam? There are some on http://badcheese.com/~steve/atlogs/ [16:25] those are too new [16:26] I think you can change the date to get earlier logs. [16:26] e.g. http://badcheese.com/~steve/atlogs/?chan=archiveteam&day=2011-09-01 [16:26] yeah but not early enough [16:26] I'd prefer to grep over them though [17:24] i have logs from ~week 1 of #archiveteam [17:25] fyi [17:26] no joins/parts after the first few weeks but i do /names every once in a while [17:31] chronomex: can you grep -i them for MobileMe or idisk? [17:31] I know I mentioned something some months ago and my logs are offline and inaccessible atm [17:31] if only you had backups! [17:31] bbot_: that's not the issue [17:31] the motherboard died [17:32] backups also are "offline and inaccessible" :D [17:33] currently I'm waiting for a new board [17:35] /EFNet/#archiveteam.2010-11-08.log:16:23 @sungo if you're talking about the apple dotmac/mobileme stuff. they're just moving everything over to the new d [17:35] irrc [17:35] /EFNet/#archiveteam.2011-06-25.log:22:54 balrog apple's MobileMe [17:35] /EFNet/#archiveteam.2011-06-25.log:23:13 balrog underscor: hack up a script that you feed addresses to and that downloads all files for mobileme :D [17:36] /EFNet/#archiveteam.2011-06-27.log:04:31 alard Added a new page to the wiki about MobileMe (with a small script for downloading public.me.com): http://w [17:36] iveteam.org/index.php?title=MobileMe [17:36] /EFNet/#archiveteam.2011-08-11.log:12:08 alard Hey, would it be a good idea to start downloading stuff from mac.com / mobileme? [17:36] /EFNet/#archiveteam.2011-08-11.log:13:41 alard Also: the MobileMe scripts are ready. They work for me, but if anyone else wants to try them, I more than [17:36] e your views. :) [17:36] /EFNet/#archiveteam.2011-08-11.log:13:41 alard http://archiveteam.org/index.php?title=MobileMe [17:36] /EFNet/#archiveteam.2011-08-11.log:14:09 @yipdw alard: re: MobileMe archiving -- do you know of a way we can grab a username set? [17:36] /EFNet/#archiveteam.2011-09-02.log:13:45 <@alard> And to do a few test runs of the scripts I've written. (See the wiki: http://www.archiveteam.org/index. [17:36] im on my phone in bed so this kinda sucks [17:37] no mentions of idisk or mobileme before 2011-06 [17:38] chronomex: that's that [17:38] someone posted a url to an XML dump of idisk [17:38] 2011-06-25 [17:38] you want me to go shase it down? [17:39] yeah. [17:39] it's pretty important [17:39] :/ [17:39] or wait a minute [17:39] ok 1sec [17:41] ok [17:42] ok please do [17:43] hm im not seeing it [17:44] :/ [17:44] weird! [17:44] well I think underscore was the one to do some [17:45] 1sec [17:47] http:/gir.seatlewireless.net/~chronomex/atirc/ [17:47] look for youself [17:47] cannot find server [17:47] spelling spelling [17:47] http://gir.seattlewireless.net/~chronomex/atirc/ [17:48] oops ;) [17:48] 403 [17:48] ach [17:49] go [17:49] got it [17:51] hrmmmmm ok [17:52] hi [17:54] ok, homepage.mac.com is quite different. [17:55] we should archive multimania, free.fr: they are some of the biggest web hosters [17:56] free.fr is important because they could go away [17:58] I also found a php script like archive.org [18:00] but it's untranslated and hasn't been updated since 2009: http://codingteam.net/project/archiveur [18:02] I also have a blog cloner which is translated and heavily updated, and don't need a database: http://sebsauvage.net/streisand.me/index.html