[00:00] btw, archiveteam@archiveteam.org returned "Recipient address rejected: User unknown in local recipient table (state 14)" [00:02] thanks for archiving! [00:06] OK, who's good at github. [00:06] Chit chat with me [00:06] Relax, it'll hit other places on github as well. [00:06] on/besides [00:07] * bayleef` has an account, and has pushed some stuff to a repo and submitted a pull request, but other than that... [00:09] I guess I've githubbed a lot [00:09] I'm about to go home, though, so will be offline for a bit [00:10] SketchCow: feel free to send messages my way if nobody else is around; it'll be a little while before I can respond, though [00:11] hopefully CTA doesn't shut down parts of the train line like they did this morning [00:11] strong winds... at least you're not trying to fly... [00:12] some people say I am, but not quite at that altitude [00:12] throw yourself at the ground and miss [00:12] * bayleef` grins [00:13] i bet it is fun to drive on the mackinac bridge at the moment [00:14] SketchCow: This the POP source? [00:16] yes [00:28] Awesome! What is it you need, just setting up a repo/organization? [00:32] Yeah [00:32] Jordan has an account [00:32] Just no experience with github [00:32] So I can lend his account to someone, with the source, and they can add it in. [00:32] I know github. :) [00:32] I can give advice [00:32] "This is github! I know this!" [00:33] Glad to help if needed. Seems like the room is full of githubbers! [00:33] https://github.com/balr0g [00:33] I also know a bit about github. I haven't yet created my own project, though [00:33] I have 28 repos :o [00:34] i have many repos, but they are forks of other repos [00:34] most of these are forks that I've done stuff with [00:34] some are conversions from svn [00:34] or part of an organization collection that I have access to [00:34] I don't need advice. [00:35] We're going to give people a pile of files in an archive and make it a repo. [00:35] I'd go ahead and do it. [00:35] I'm just afraid of screwing up :p [00:35] Sure, I can do that. Right now or waiting on it? [00:35] ofc I'd want to consult with Tony on the best way of laying out the files. [00:38] wow. creating a repo on github looks pretty darned easy, after all. [00:38] Yeah, p. dang easy. They make it nice'n comfy. [00:38] making a repo is easy [00:38] laying out files in a way that makes sense for Apple ][, may or may not be [00:39] I just had never looked at the process on github, so I had no idea how easy or hard it was [01:10] SketchCow: If it's easier for you, shoot the details to mistydemeo@gmail.com [01:30] awesome [01:30] my state tax refund: $1 [01:31] and they spend a bunch of money to mail you a check? [01:31] nah, I just told them to do direct deposit [01:31] er wtf [01:31] $20 e-file fee [01:31] blah [01:31] yeah [01:33] haha what [01:33] TurboTax added Facebook and Twitter buttons [01:33] I hate this planet [01:34] they did that at least a year ago [01:34] So you can spam your friends with your tax returns? [01:34] there's also a "Backup to MobileMe" button [01:34] A FAT LOT OF GOOD THAT DOES, DOESN'T IT [01:34] actually fuck I wonder if that means we might have some tax returns in the memac grab [01:34] yipdw: You mean, the "Backup to Archive Team" button? :) [01:35] shaqfu: yes, at this point :P [01:36] I should put all my at-risk data on a dying site and let you guys preserve it :P [01:39] hmm, google returns zero results for filetype:*.tax2011 [01:39] either everyone is smart enough to not make that public, or they're filtering it out [01:40] that's not the syntax https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=filetype%3Atax2011 [01:41] hits seem unrelated though [01:41] mistym: looks like I did have some record of some of my lossless testing stuff from awhile back. I forget what the test clip was, though: http://wegetsignal.org/tmp/lossless_sizes.png [01:41] though one of the items in the list is almost certainly not lossless [01:42] DFJustin: oh oops [01:44] hmm [01:45] I had a screenshot somewhere of turbotax offering to post something to facebook from a previous year, but now I can't find it [01:49] Coderjoe: Nice, thanks! [01:50] iirc, those are all video-only encodes [01:51] i think the xvid cq1 was there simply to compare against a lossy format in its least-lossy state [01:51] the x264 ones were using lossless mode [01:54] the downside to the ffv1 is that my (rather old) desktop was not fast enough to play it. ffv2 looks promising, but I didn't rebuild ffdshow with ffv2 support in order to try it out [01:55] ffv1 is REALLY cpu-intensive on decode, yeah. [01:56] ffv2 decodes rather quickly, iirc [01:56] but still isn't included in the latest versions, last I saw [02:15] Yeah, I don't think it's in by default. Probably not for awhile, though the ProRes encoder went from being optional to in by default pretty darn fast. [02:24] i got 176-267 of dl.tv episodes now [02:30] nolan bushnell is on the wasteland 2 wrap up stream: http://www.twitch.tv/inxile_entertainment [03:02] Still up for it, mistym ? Or is it too late? [03:04] SketchCow: Yep, still up for it! [03:17] SketchCow: How much we doing, just the one disk for now? [03:57] Just the one disk. [03:58] But still waiting on the fellow. [03:58] http://i.imgur.com/8Ic9X.png [03:58] That screenshot fills me with glee. [03:59] Has that source been recovered? [03:59] Yes, it just needs some work and we'll have a .zip of textfiles to import into git [04:01] Hoorah [04:01] haw [04:02] "Beware of computer programmers that carry screwdrivers." [04:02] yeah. they might spill it [04:20] "ProDOS" is a magically 80s name. [04:20] (https://twitter.com/#!/textfiles/status/192105057204965378) [04:22] would this full under public domain? [04:24] shhhh [04:24] We're releasing it and have a side of mashed shut up [04:26] i got the first 6 + pilot episode of crankygeeks on archive.org [04:26] still downloading dl.tv [04:27] its the new computer chronies [04:27] it needs to be saved [04:28] luckly it looks like all videos are on on mevio.com [04:31] He's in the zone and finishing this last backup [04:31] Then he'll get me the .zip for you. [04:42] but I ordered the baked shut up... [04:52] Lost my githubber. Who else here is notably familiar with github? [04:52] me [04:54] Great. [05:13] argh [06:58] Anyone else? [06:58] I shot through two. [06:58] Now I need a third [07:18] SketchCow: sill looking? [07:20] No, I have someone on it [07:20] balrog_: [07:21] But he's dealing with a linespace issue [07:21] https://github.com/jmechner/Prince-of-Persia-Apple-II [07:21] Feel free to work with him. [07:21] cool [07:22] hmm [07:23] i see in another channel that he crashed for the night [08:44] SketchCow: ooh awesome [08:44] * yipdw clones [10:26] bit disappointed in the softlayer box [10:26] cant get over 10MB/s uploading w/ sessaw [10:26] multiple threads [10:26] * oli cries [10:28] so many blue threads [10:28] on tracker [10:28] for me [10:28] The upload speed doesn't only depend on your softlayer box, of course. The batcave proxy can only do 50MB/s in total. [10:28] wasted :/ [10:28] http://memac-tamer.heroku.com/ [10:28] how can i get stuff going faster? if it only takes 50mbits then im already taking 30 of that in total [10:29] cause im still having that issue with curl hanging [10:29] Well, 50 megabytes, not megabits. [10:29] yes my bad [10:29] but i have 3 sertver4you systems going [10:29] and the softlayer one [10:30] so ... probably taking up at least half of that myself [10:30] judging by nload [10:36] 112 percent full << lol? [10:36] Is that the mobile me stuff? [10:36] That page is much nicer :O [10:37] it is? [10:37] makes n osense at all [10:39] i have a funny feeling all my seesaw-s3-repeat 's have been wasted and not uploaded anything at all, can you check alard ? :/ [10:40] Are you running normal seesaw besides seesaw-s3? [10:40] no [10:40] not in the same directory [10:40] please tell me that since i started running seesaw-s3-repeat i have actually uploaded SOMETHING [10:40] No, but somewhere else at all? [10:41] yes elsewhere [10:41] on systems with less disk space [10:41] Since if you don't do anything but seesaw-s3, you can just check the tracker. [10:41] You've uploaded 8TB so far. [10:41] which tracker? there are two :/ [10:41] http://memac.heroku.com/ [10:41] does that count both seesaw and the repeat one? [10:41] Yes, that counts everything. [10:42] ok, that's a relief [10:42] :O I did 9gb? nice :D [10:42] The only difference is that the seesaw-s3 updates are batched: when it finishes uploading it sends all usernames to the tracker in one go. So you'll see a number of them appear. [10:42] I'll never have the power you guys did [10:42] but man [10:42] hrrm [10:43] But perhaps we should move this type of discussion to the #memac channel. [10:44] i like it here :D I can watch ;D [10:45] SmileyG: Why don't you join #memac then? [10:45] more channels Â¬_Â¬ [12:37] github++ [12:38] o_O? [12:38] WUT [12:39] n-n-n-n-n-netsplit [12:45] - Running wget --mirror (at least 4662 files)... ERROR (3). [12:45] Error downloading from web.me.com. [12:46] :O [12:46] What happened? [13:58] Coderjoe: the linespace issue was fixed [14:12] I enjoy waking up to find myself in a world where the Prince of Persia source code is on Github. [14:13] morning, mistym :) [14:14] Will Google Drive be going on the deathwatch list immediately upon release? [14:14] Morning balrog_! [14:17] hi folks [14:18] Wait, is Google Drive a storage thing or the self-driving car? For some reason I thought it was the latter.... [14:18] Wyatt: They picked a REALLY bad time naming their cloud service "Google Drive" immediately after a major self-driving car announcement [14:18] Now what are their cars called, "Google Car"? Sounds like a toy. [14:19] Google Autobot. [14:19] Forces Apple or MS to go with Decepticons. [14:21] Definitely MS, Apple wouldn't be *overtly* evil. [14:21] Apple is more like the Portal turret. Sleek, adorable, and also deadly. [14:23] mistym: are you sure about that? [14:23] So Apple would go with Maximals? [14:23] apple are every bit as litigious, awful and fuck-the-customer-just-because-they-can as any other big business [14:24] i honestly don't get the techie hard-on for them, they're a business and if they could make more money out of you by turning you into fertiliser they'd do just that [14:24] winr4r: Yes, but they like to cultivate the image of being hip, ergonomic, etc. [14:24] just like google and microsoft would [14:24] MS would LIKE that image but they can't market their way out of a paper bag. [14:25] But they've cornered the market on paper-bag interiors. [14:25] mistym: in apple's case it'd be like "it's COOL to be fertiliser" and everyone would line up before the shredders [14:26] they're no worse than anyone else, of course, but they're also no less overt [14:31] http://www.thestarphoenix.com/entertainment/books/Oxford+University+Vatican+libraries+digitize+ancient+texts/6458772/story.html [14:33] DFJustin: splendid! [14:55] google isn't hip and cool? [14:55] they have god damn fire poles in their HQ! [14:56] Apples attitude of we are right and everyone else is wrong, stinks of MS, 10 years ago. [14:58] balrog_ph: i see that. any idea about what license it is under? [14:59] Jordan will decide that part [15:00] "The libraries said the digitized collections will centre on three subject areas: Greek manuscripts, 15th-century printed books and Hebrew manuscripts and early printed books." [15:00] argh. why the limitations? upload them all! [15:01] balrog_ph: right. but I was hoping he would have passed on info about license before making the big announcement (which he did last night) [15:02] You know how late it was? [15:02] I posted the code at 3:40am [15:02] :/ [15:04] balrog_ph: http://twitter.com/jmechner/status/192153085362184193 [15:04] wasnt there a photo of IAs recent hdd purchase? cant find it [15:04] yeah there was [15:04] don't know if I saw it here or twitter [15:05] Coderjoe: They told me "we'll fix that later" [15:06] [Wed Apr 11 11:49:14 2012 EDT] DFJustin #archiveteam http://home.us.archive.org/~edward/unloading_truck/ [15:06] cheers [15:06] they're selling all the empty cases now [15:06] yeah :D [15:07] argh. that is one thing i would have liked to have seen completed before everyone started cloning it [15:07] as annoying as licensing and copyright is [15:08] Coderjoe: Github's TOS does state that you grant an implicit license to fork & modify if there is no stated license. [15:09] "[...] by setting your pages to be viewed publicly, you agree to allow others to view your Content. By setting your repositories to be viewed publicly, you agree to allow others to view and fork your repositories." [15:21] do they have a legal definition of what "fork" entails? the law generally isn't friendly about implicit definitions, afaik. does "fork" just mean clone, or does it mean use the github fork feature? does it grant "forkers" the rights to distribute copies? what about people that fork the forks? [15:22] Haven't read the TOS in detail, so not sure if they specify. [15:38] Coderjoe: The currently posted source is incomplete anyway [15:38] You can't build it [15:39] Always impressed what can end up happening when someone ends up with ancient source though. [15:39] Like when someone posted the Mr Nutz 2 Genesis source code. Game was never released, source is from an unfinished version of the game. Couple years later someone recreates the Amiga build environment and releases a ROM assembled from the source. [15:43] More will be posted soon [15:44] This was late at night, remember [15:44] Very late at night. Wish I could have stayed up until it dropped, even if I wasn't in a position to do anything with it! [15:52] waiting for SketchCow to wake up, i sorted most of the stuff he asked me to sort [15:54] 6 left to sort [15:57] mm [15:58] mindless self indulgence made interesting use of some old footage. i think it was reefer madness [15:58] in the video for "Shut Me Up" [15:58] (which was recently uploaded as part of the stage6 content) [16:03] Recently posted on a Joystiq article related to PoP: The copying took place at a "megacopy" party, assisted by digital archivist Jason Scott using various modified computer hardware. We're glad people like Mechner exist who can do things like "write Prince of Persia," and we're glad people like Scott exist who can figure out how to preserve this material for computers that aren't 35 years old. We're here to ... appreciat [16:03] e the effort? We're totally doing our part! [16:27] SketchCow: all disks sorted [16:27] btw if anyone is interested https://twitter.com/#!/tqft9999/googlevoracle [16:28] Hahaha, I love that everyone's remarking on that guy wearing a suit. [16:29] What's this lawsuit about again? Java on Android? [16:29] Yes [16:29] more or less [16:29] Do Google and Oracle even know what this is about anymore? [16:30] This could all have been avoided if only Unladen Swallow had turned out better :( [16:30] Had to scroll down a page to find a tweet about the actual suit (not the one one guy is wearing) [16:30] well since most of Oracle's patents got invalidated, Oracle is playing the "APIs can be copyrighted" card real hard [16:30] which is BAD [16:30] if that's true that royally f***s up software development forever [16:31] since its eternal vendor lock-in [16:31] BYe bye, Wine [16:31] yep [16:31] there will most definitely be appeals [16:38] "Goog atty admits Android has 9 lines of code from Java, but says its out of Android's 15 million lines. Calls it inconsequential, a mistake." Seems like a weird thing to leave in your codebase. [16:38] Wyatt: they took code from Apache Harmony [16:39] this is a civil suit, correct? [16:39] yes, but it's precedent-setting [16:39] Inasmuch as Oracle is capable of civility, [16:40] i'm asking because the comment about a jury. afaik, juries are only criminal cases [16:40] umm no [16:40] I think you're thinking of Small Claims. [16:40] granted, I haven't ever set foot in a courtroom [16:41] I have, for Jury Duty, but I was excused :| [16:41] and the majority of the stuff you might see on tv is criminal cases [16:42] (ignoring the stuff like judge judy, superior court, etc) [16:44] I had a nightmare that I was summoned for jury duty last night... [17:29] So I had a thought I voiced on Twitter. Wonder if the original #PoPsource files on that disk have timestamps? I think it'd be cool to migrate those to the modern vrsions. [17:30] Of course it'd have to be done every time someone modifies something in the repo, but the more historical info about when files were modified that can be preserved, the better. [17:32] that is a splendid idea [17:32] just starting in on the mobileme slurp with seesaw.sh... sorry i'm late to the game. .8Mb upload to the rescue! [17:33] anything i should know about that hasn't made it to the wiki? everything looks really slick and well documented. nice job folks. [17:37] if it's not documented there it's probably because they don't know about it yet [17:37] :) [17:38] What in the world, so thats Prince of Persia and now three demoscene groups releasing source this week. [17:38] Wyatt: i heard about the .kkrieger release [17:39] if that's one of the other three [17:39] winr4r: More than just kkreiger. Farbrausch released ten years worth of code, inclusing Werkkzeug3 [17:39] And then Demopaja. [17:40] And now Conspiracy has released...what, everything? It's a 7MB zip, so... [17:40] Wyatt: excellent [17:55] woah [17:56] i had not heard about the farbeausch releases [17:56] does that also include .the .product? [17:56] and candytron? [17:56] https://github.com/farbrausch/fr_public [17:56] Coderjoe: like woah? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fC8EAQ8xhM [18:00] nothing older than candytron, it appears [18:01] For now. I'm pretty sure ryg mentioned on his blog that Chaos is going to release more stuff now that .theprodukkt gmbh is fully dissolved. [18:01] It's just a matter of relicensing things or removing things. [18:02] though candytron was very impressive. voice synth and all that in 64k. [18:03] Coderjoe: http://fgiesen.wordpress.com/2012/04/15/if-in-doubt-go-to-the-source/ and the accompanying posts in that series. [18:03] "Metaprogramming for madmen" is probably my fav so far. [18:06] something that I found interesting about .the .product was seeing new things added as I got newer, more capable hardware/drivers [18:09] Oh? [18:13] indeed [18:13] Guess who's back! [18:13] We're adding a README/license to the github for prince of persia. [18:13] in the mothereffin house? [18:14] SketchCow++ [18:14] Awesome! [18:14] It will not satisfy most nerds [18:14] Nothing satisfies nerds. [18:14] * mistym included [18:15] Wyatt: the first time I saw it, I was using a TNT or TNT2. I later got a GF2 (iirc) and noticed a few new things in the demo [18:15] NERD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [18:15] erm. sorry. [18:16] Has there ever been a licence that satisfies most nerds? [18:16] No, there never has bee, [18:16] Ever [18:16] Wyatt: WTFPL [18:17] yipdw: "But it doesn't enforce your Freedom!" [18:17] though honestly I like to see GPL used more these days just because it just pisses people off [18:17] for no good reason [18:17] TOO PERMISSIVE [18:18] one of my big goals in life is to make usage of GPLv3 akin to admitting you're a neo-Nazi [18:18] and then slap it on a hugely popular software project [18:18] and watch the Open Source community disintegrate [18:18] yipdw: eh not gonna happen [18:19] which part [18:19] a lot of projects I'm involved with use GPLv3 [18:19] and are happy with it [18:19] oh, I'm not trying to go for everyone, I'm just trying to get sufficient leverage s.t. I can follow up the wreckage with a commit that adds trollface.jpg to the repo [18:20] hi all [18:20] Wyatt: i read "metaprogramming for madmen", that was awesome [18:21] "...can shrink 32-bit x86 code by 300-400 bytes a day, tops." [18:22] I think it's more Jordan doesn't want to speak for things he cant promise. [18:22] SketchCow: Which is 100% reasonable. [18:22] So his readme is purely a "enjoy, don't ask me" [18:22] Like I said on twitter, the ratio of idiots to grateful fans has been very favorable. [18:23] People who want to recompile the source are the people who want to take antique cars out for a spin. [18:23] Maybe, sure, but it's not an insult if that's not currently possible. [18:23] The chance of there being abuse of it is so minimal... [18:23] We were up to 2am converting the files so they could go in (hence no data files yet) [18:23] People will figure it out, I'm sure. [18:24] I can't see many opportunities to exploit 25 year old code for machines rarely seen outside of museums [18:24] Untrue, in this case [18:24] Two reasons. [18:24] #1 Roland G. did some AMAZING code for broderbund, techniques that may still have use [18:24] #2. The code itself uses techniques that may have programming use as well [18:24] All of broderbund's disk protection code is in there too. [18:25] Definitely! I can only imagine the learning opportunities. [18:25] Are those techniques protected under patent law? [18:25] shaqfu: Expired. [18:25] It's been 22 years. [18:25] Gotcha [18:26] Seems like an awesome educational piece, then [18:26] mistym: not sure that's so [18:26] oh never mind, read what you said as "expired by 22 years" [18:26] shaqfu: I can see other applications too. cf. the guy who took the Mr Nutz 2 Genesis source code, set up an Amiga build environment, and successfully built a ROM. Could lead to some interesting game mods, for example. [18:26] The original microprose sim city code is excellent to read [18:26] you're right [18:26] I'm all for examples of badasses 25 years ago doing badass things [18:27] A little hard to read, but the guy who did the original unix port went back, commented and ported to modern linux [18:28] SketchCow: so what, exactly, is the rights situation with the code? [18:29] * winr4r isn't in the "idiot" category, i hope, because i'm very happy the source is out there [18:32] I'm blind so this game means nothing to me, but SketchCow, will the original disk images be made available? Do the files have timestamps? [18:32] Is anyone aware of publicly available datasets of telegrams? I don't even know if records of telegram contents or locations were kept, but I hope so. [18:32] I figured if anyone would know, it would be SketchCow [18:32] Or, anyone I was likely to talk to in the next few weeks [18:33] Telegrams? That's a...curious request [18:33] As private correspondence, I don't think there's a master data set [18:33] sethish: If you'd like I can ask around; mind if I ask what it's for? [18:37] Oh, hold up; I might have something [18:37] Short term goal; I am curating (cleaning up and republishing) historical datatsets that are important [18:39] So I am copying out things like the data used to figure out where cholera came from in the 1850's in london [18:39] Oh, neat [18:39] What data was that? Historical obits? [18:39] medium term goal is to provide some simple visualizations to show the historically important conclusion [18:40] John Snow went around and figured out where people lived who were sick and put it on a map [18:40] and noticed they were more strongly correlated to where people got their water from than from locations that were 'dirty' or 'smelled bad' which were the running theories at the time of what caused cholera [18:41] I don't know of publically available datasets of telegrams, no. [18:41] OK, need github help. [18:41] And your long-term goal is continued preservation/access of interesting data sets? [18:41] What's the easiest way to add a readme [18:41] SketchCow: I think you just upload the readme to the root of the repo. [18:41] SketchCow: can't create files on github, you'll have to pull it down and add it. [18:41] Do you have direct write access? [18:41] THat is, push it. [18:41] I am on as Jordan, so yes. [18:42] Can I do this from the webpage? [18:42] No [18:42] but I can offer you a pull request to create the file [18:42] then you can edit it from the web [18:42] Make it so there's a LICENSE and a README [18:44] sent the readme, I made it a README.mkd if that is ok, it's markdown [18:44] adding a LICENSE now [18:45] I want to be able to have functioning links, is that possible, in the readme [18:45] sent and sent [18:45] that will require markdown [18:45] SketchCow: if you make it something like md or html, yeah [18:45] the syntax is [linktext](url) [18:46] https://github.com/jmechner/Prince-of-Persia-Apple-II/pulls << click merge on those [18:48] SketchCow: want me to add it? [18:50] * mistym loves markdown [18:54]