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03:57
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03:57
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mib_0n6by |
Howdy - if I know of a website that is going down relatively soon, who do I talk to to possibly preserve it? |
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03:58
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03:59
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Ctrl-S |
us i guess |
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03:59
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Ctrl-S |
what website is it? |
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04:01
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04:01
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Atluxity |
talk in channel, that way more people can get involved if need be |
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04:02
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Atluxity |
also, greetings! and thanks for showing up |
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04:04
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mib_0n6by |
Sorry |
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04:04
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mib_0n6by |
kb.berkeley.edu |
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04:05
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Atluxity |
do you think it requires a lot of storage? |
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04:05
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mib_0n6by |
Mostly text and few images. |
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04:05
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Atluxity |
looks like mostly text |
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04:05
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mib_0n6by |
No large files. |
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04:06
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Atluxity |
looks like a job for archiveteambot |
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04:06
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Atluxity |
do you agree Ctrl-S ? |
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04:06
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Ctrl-S |
I have no idea |
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04:06
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Atluxity |
ah, ok |
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04:07
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Ctrl-S |
https://kb.berkeley.edu/page.php?id=23247 |
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04:07
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|
mib_0n6by |
Hmm? |
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04:07
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Ctrl-S |
https://kb.berkeley.edu/page.php?id=23243 |
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04:07
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|
Ctrl-S |
might be sequential numbering for articles? |
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04:08
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|
mib_0n6by |
It is, but updates to articles are not. |
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04:08
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|
mib_0n6by |
And there are a number of subsites. |
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04:08
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|
Atluxity |
I have added the site to a bot used for archiving |
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04:09
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|
Ctrl-S |
sine it's a university hosting it, might we be able to ask the admins about archiving it locally? |
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04:09
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Atluxity |
mib_0n6by: do you know when it will go offline? |
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04:09
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|
mib_0n6by |
Relatively soon. |
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04:09
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|
Ctrl-S |
might be able to mail a HDD? |
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04:09
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mib_0n6by |
Ctrl-S: it is a UCB page hosted by the University of Wisconsin. |
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04:10
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|
mib_0n6by |
Easier to simply grab a copy as the entire site shouldn't be that large. |
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04:10
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Ctrl-S |
I'm pretty clueless about these matters |
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04:10
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mib_0n6by |
Trust me when I say that the site is small enough to just grab as opposed to waiting on the University to provide a copy. |
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04:11
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mib_0n6by |
(which would be a low priority and would likely take longer than just wgetting the whole thing.) |
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04:11
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Atluxity |
yeah |
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04:11
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|
Atluxity |
local copy if often not the best choice |
|
04:12
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|
mib_0n6by |
Archiving the site sooner is better than not. |
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04:12
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|
Atluxity |
I have added the site to an archiveing bot |
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04:13
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|
mib_0n6by |
Thank you :) |
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04:13
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|
Atluxity |
and thank you |
|
04:13
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|
Ctrl-S |
any other sites/subsites you know of that might be in need of archiving? |
|
04:14
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|
mib_0n6by |
From the University? |
|
04:14
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|
Ctrl-S |
anywhere really |
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04:14
🔗
|
mib_0n6by |
I contacted Jason Scott a while ago about a private torrent site. |
|
04:15
🔗
|
mib_0n6by |
berkeley.edu is undergoing a complete site redesign soon, which means everything currently there may no longer be available or completely broken in a few months (this is for the main site only, departmental subsites are a different affair.) |
|
04:16
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|
Ctrl-S |
I guess that means *.berkely needs archiving |
|
04:16
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|
mib_0n6by |
Unknown ETA on the site change... |
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04:16
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04:17
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|
mib_0n6by |
How do you guys handle overlap with the Archive.org WayBackMachine? |
|
04:17
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|
pikhq_ |
mib_0n6by: Whaddya mean, overlap? When possible the stuff we save gets shoved on there. |
|
04:18
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|
Ctrl-S |
My understanding is that anything that these guys arcive gets shoved onto archive.org if at all possible |
|
04:19
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|
Atluxity |
aren't we the voulunteer guirilia warriors of archive.org? Acting by ourself, but hope we do archive.org's biddings |
|
04:19
🔗
|
Ctrl-S |
we're just a bit more aggressive/proactive at fetching stuff |
|
04:19
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|
mib_0n6by |
Overlap... They have their own web spiders for I guess more casual site grabs. Guess you guys pull full sites and if it is a current / recent copy, they wouldn't have the depth nor record of it at that time anyway. |
|
04:19
🔗
|
mib_0n6by |
Ya... |
|
04:19
🔗
|
mib_0n6by |
Forget you guys are a rogue branch of bad asses ;) |
|
04:19
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|
Atluxity |
:D |
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04:19
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|
Ctrl-S |
They use outdated systems like robots.txt |
|
04:20
🔗
|
Atluxity |
robots.txt are made for one thing, to be archived |
|
04:20
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|
Ctrl-S |
exactly |
|
04:20
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|
Ctrl-S |
also to point out interesting things |
|
04:20
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|
pikhq_ |
Eh, robots.txt aren't "outdated". Just completely at odds with archiveteam. |
|
04:20
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|
pikhq_ |
Though I suppose understandable archive.org listens to them; probably makes their legal standing rather less white-knuckle. |
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04:20
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|
Atluxity |
altought they sometime point to redirect loops :\ |
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04:20
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|
Ctrl-S |
it was invented when robots could actually overload sites |
|
04:21
🔗
|
mib_0n6by |
Robots.txt was always a sign in the road and not even a legally binding one at that. |
|
04:21
🔗
|
Ctrl-S |
or break networks |
|
04:21
🔗
|
pikhq_ |
Yeah, but having an easy "just opt out" thing probably significantly reduces the random crazies. |
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04:21
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mib_0n6by |
It doesn't stop you guys :P |
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04:21
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|
pikhq_ |
(no accounting for insanity though.) |
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04:22
🔗
|
pikhq_ |
mib_0n6by: Yeah, but what're they gonna do, sue a bunch of random folks? |
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04:22
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|
Ctrl-S |
in a bunch of random countries |
|
04:22
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|
pikhq_ |
Who may or may not be identifiable. |
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04:22
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|
mib_0n6by |
Does robots.txt have any legal basis? At worst you guys are running a friendly DDOS archive attack. |
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04:22
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|
Ctrl-S |
and will probably invode the streisand effect if bothered |
|
04:23
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|
pikhq_ |
You gotta *really* piss off a big company to get that sort of wide-scatter individual lawsuit going. |
|
04:23
🔗
|
pikhq_ |
mib_0n6by: Not really, though I suspect in a court of law you could at least *argue* that a lack of robots.txt is equal to saying "hey, do whatever you want". |
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04:23
🔗
|
Ctrl-S |
it'd probably be cheaper to just give us the drives the data is on than to sue us |
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04:24
🔗
|
mib_0n6by |
When was any company actually reasonable? |
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04:24
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|
Ctrl-S |
never, but they like money a whole lot |
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04:24
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pikhq_ |
Now, I suppose there's a chance that Yahoo! does that the next time they bring down a service. |
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04:24
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mib_0n6by |
They don't care about things such as culture heritage, memory and understanding history though. |
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04:25
🔗
|
Ctrl-S |
Bad PR&have to pay lawyers |
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04:25
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mib_0n6by |
Ya... Yahoo! is still working through the bad press from shutting down geocities /sarcasm. |
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04:26
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Ctrl-S |
>Have to pay lawyere. >PAY |
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04:27
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mib_0n6by |
That assumes that corporations are a thinking beast that have morals, values and cares. |
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04:28
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|
mib_0n6by |
Much less ones that align with you. |
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04:28
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|
Ctrl-S |
they care about getting more money |
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04:28
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mib_0n6by |
Which preserving a cultural heritage obviously allows them to collect. |
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04:29
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|
Ctrl-S |
i mean there is a financial downside to lawsuits |
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04:29
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Ctrl-S |
they don't give one shit about culture |
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04:30
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04:33
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kyan_ is now known as kyan |
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04:36
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balrog |
!a http://www.reddit.com/r/frc/ --phantomjs |
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04:36
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|
balrog |
oops |
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04:41
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yipdw |
I was going to say that archiveteam projects can be construed in the US as a violation of the CFAA if a website's ToS has anti-DoS provisions |
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04:41
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|
yipdw |
but the CFAA is so broad, fuck it |
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04:42
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yipdw |
I'm sure there's a way you can construe that law so that you can get arrested for typing |
|
04:47
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Ctrl-S |
I believe we'd probably not be worth suing, and the EFF would be all over the case |
|
04:48
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|
Ctrl-S |
Police would consider it not worth their time, since we are always careful to not overload the site |
|
04:49
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|
Atluxity |
police? do they get involved when lawsuit? |
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04:49
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|
Atluxity |
or maybe you thought two different scenarious |
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04:50
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|
Ctrl-S |
yes |
|
04:50
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|
Ctrl-S |
either a lawsuit or contacting the feds over that law |
|
04:51
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Atluxity |
I actually have access to a pretty good legal fund and a great lawyer if I was to be targeted... but doubt it very much |
|
04:58
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yipdw |
I usually bring up the lawsuit line in a "psh who cares" fashion |
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04:58
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yipdw |
it's roughly on the same level of concern as jaywalking, and far less dangerous |
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04:58
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Ctrl-S |
p. much |
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04:59
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yipdw |
between getting hit with Stephen Heymann or getting hit with a car I'll take Heymann |
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04:59
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yipdw |
at least you can damage Heymann |
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04:59
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yipdw |
oh right I have +o |
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05:00
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yipdw |
woop woop woop off topic siren |
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05:10
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05:26
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StartAway is now known as Start |
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05:29
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06:07
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06:34
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07:12
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SketchCow |
YEAH |
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07:13
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SketchCow |
My MS-DOS thing has finished |
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07:13
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SketchCow |
All the booting verified, and the script that hit the Mobygames site now does a great job |
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18:05
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StartAway |
http://vstreamers.com |
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18:05
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StartAway |
"Website will be shutting down day January 15th." |
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18:06
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StartAway |
the site looks to be a clone of old youtube |
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18:06
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arkiver |
looks like they have less then 6000 videos |
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18:09
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StartAway |
i'll get to work on the site structure |
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18:10
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StartAway |
got any ideas for an irc channel name? |
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18:10
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arkiver |
StartAway: ok, I'll start with the scripts for vstreamer |
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18:11
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18:11
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midas |
10x409 pages arkiver |
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18:11
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arkiver |
Yes |
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18:11
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midas |
rather small |
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18:11
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arkiver |
21 channel pages |
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18:11
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arkiver |
midas: yeah, less then 6000 videos |
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18:11
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midas |
maybe we can run it through the bot? |
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18:12
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arkiver |
those videos are not linked to from the html |
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18:13
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arkiver |
probably some post somewhere (haven't checked yet) |
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18:14
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midas |
oh well, it should be easy to grab |
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18:14
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midas |
(size wise that is) |
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18:14
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arkiver |
yeah |
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18:14
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arkiver |
I already found the videos |
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18:14
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arkiver |
should be doable |
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18:20
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Start |
would #destreamers be a good name for the irc channel? |
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18:24
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arkiver |
that would do I think |
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18:27
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Start |
ok |
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Start |
with vstreamers shutting down, i'd place zippcast on a watchlist |
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19:34
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Start |
zippcast has shut down multiple times in the past and reappeared without any content that was previously there |
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21:14
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brook |
Hi |
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21:15
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brook |
can anyone help me out? I want to archive this wiki http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?PrinciplesObjectivesAndGoals |
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21:16
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brook |
could I get +v to try the bot on it? |
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21:19
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brook |
anyone have some input, suggestions? |
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21:26
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chfoo |
you can get an idea of how many links are in the wayback machine by using this link: http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://c2.com/* and there's an index of archivebot's crawls of c2.com: http://archive.fart.website/archivebot/viewer/job/xdufx |
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21:28
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chfoo |
and you can search the chat logs at http://archive.fart.website/bin/irclogger_logs to see why it was aborted |
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21:29
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21:29
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brook |
it looks like the log is password protected |
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21:30
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brook |
im not too interestedin why it stopped the archive anyway |
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21:30
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brook |
I want to make a offline image/mirror of the site |
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21:30
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brook |
archive.org says it has 117,838 urls |
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21:31
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21:34
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chfoo |
oh, if you want a personal archive, you can try setting up and customize archivebot for yourself, grab it with wget/wpull/httrack/heritrix, or ask someone else to do it |
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21:36
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brook |
thre's 35k pages and it wants a delay time of 30 seconds per get. So if I got 30 people to help me we could do this in 10 hours |
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21:36
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schbirid |
that defeats the purpose of the 30s wait |
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21:36
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brook |
I tried on my own but the delay time was too low and it stopped giving me the pages after a bit |
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21:37
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schbirid |
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?search=* says ~40k pages |
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21:38
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brook |
ah so there's a lot of pages! |
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21:41
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brook |
Ill email him about it again, but he ignored me before |
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21:41
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brook |
maybe I got spam filtered |
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21:44
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brook |
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?DownloadWiki no I think he ignores me on purpose |
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21:45
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schbirid |
i'll give it a try |
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21:46
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balrog |
> The only person who can tell you why it isn't available is its creator, WardCunningham, and he appears unwilling to do so. |
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21:46
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balrog |
lol |
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21:46
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brook |
he's got a new wiki project on so if it doesn't go well he might do something dodgy with this site to force people onto his new page |
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21:46
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balrog |
I think it's unlikely |
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21:46
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brook |
im not judging hIm but ive seen other people do this |
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21:48
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schbirid |
wget is running |
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21:48
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balrog |
schbirid: what delays? |
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21:49
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balrog |
I'd also use random wait |
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21:49
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brook |
can you pause and resume wget? |
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21:49
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schbirid |
30 |
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21:49
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brook |
since it has many pages I was worried about that and wrote my own script |
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21:49
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schbirid |
you can ctrl-z |
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21:49
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brook |
ah ok cool |
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21:49
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chfoo |
there's this list of pages if you havent seen it yet: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?search=$ |
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21:50
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brook |
there is also http://c2.com/cgi/wikiList |
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21:50
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brook |
hopefully these two have the same stuff on them |
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21:50
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balrog |
"36855 pages found out of 36857 titles searched" |
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21:50
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schbirid |
oh nice |
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21:50
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* |
schbirid cancels |
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21:51
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balrog |
let me see how many lines there are in the second |
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21:53
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schbirid |
eww, it has google analytics |
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21:53
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schbirid |
i am doing a wget -i on the urls |
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21:53
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schbirid |
will forget and find the files in 4 days or so |
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21:53
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schbirid |
good night :) |
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21:54
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brook |
you should grep for 'The WikiWiki Server Can not Process Your Request' every so often |
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21:54
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brook |
if you see this you need to wait a bit and redownload it |
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21:54
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balrog |
brook: does it return an appropriate http response code in that case? |
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21:55
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brook |
i don't know |
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22:44
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balrog |
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WikiArchive -- LOL |
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23:05
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godane |
SketchCow: all 2006 episodes of the believers voice of victory is uploaded now |
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Nemo_bis |
Did someone use https://pypi.python.org/pypi/wget ? |
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