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00:01
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Start |
http://www.wnd.com/2016/05/california-wants-copyrights-on-everything/ |
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00:07
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00:24
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JW_work |
or for those who don't find wnd an appealing source, here's the press release they cribbed from: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/04/ab-2880 |
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00:51
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Fusl |
asking my question from yesterday <Fusl> is there an irc channel for yuku archive? |
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01:12
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MrRadar |
Fusl: I'm not sure. I've seen discussion of it in this one. Ping: arkiver |
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01:43
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Fusl |
arkiver: copy-pasting what i dumped in here yesterday regarding yuku... https://scr.meo.ws/paste/2016-05-19-03-42-48-jeda5tEL.txt |
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13:29
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blahah |
anyone here interested in archiving the BCC recipes site? |
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13:29
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blahah |
someone has made a clone, and the code is open |
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13:29
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blahah |
but I feel like it would be safer in the archive, and distributed https://github.com/user24/auntiesrecipes |
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13:56
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MrRadar |
We already ran it through Archivebot |
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13:57
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blahah |
nice |
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16:28
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16:28
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Nemo_bis |
SSRN archival https://github.com/paultopia/scholaw/issues/1#issuecomment-220328277 |
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17:01
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schbirid |
https://github.com/user24/auntiesrecipes |
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17:06
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17:44
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ranma |
do you guys rescan things every so often? (E.g. that github) |
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17:53
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MrRadar |
The news grabber constantly monitors over 800 news sites for new articles but otherwise everything we do is pretty much one-off |
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18:05
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18:08
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blahah |
is anyone interested in archiving academic papers? |
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18:08
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blahah |
I know about the PDF sweep which will get stuff that is freely available |
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18:08
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blahah |
what about stuff that is not? |
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18:10
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PurpleSym |
Like scihub? |
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18:11
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blahah |
yes, like that |
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18:12
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blahah |
or generally any non-public papers |
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18:13
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PurpleSym |
Where would you put them? IA would have to take them down pretty quickly. |
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18:14
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blahah |
not sure - I guess a distributed archive would be best |
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18:15
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blahah |
the problem at the moment is that the torrent speeds are terrible because of the routing from russia to EU / US |
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18:17
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blahah |
so currently archiveteam puts everything on the internet archive? |
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18:17
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PurpleSym |
Yes. |
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18:17
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blahah |
I'm interested in where the line is for copyright |
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18:17
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blahah |
basically if someone is upset, they can request a takedown? |
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18:18
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PurpleSym |
That’s how it works right now. |
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18:18
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blahah |
ok |
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18:22
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18:25
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PurpleSym |
Also, your account might be taken down entirely if too many complaints arrive. |
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18:30
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blahah |
I see |
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18:31
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JW_work |
ArchiveTeam has a few things stored off of the Internet Archive (e.g. gittorious, the IA.BAK stuff, seeding of the URLteam results) and we are OK with more. |
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18:31
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JW_work |
But IA provides a very nice host for a lot of the stuff we grab. |
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18:31
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blahah |
are there any other giant hosts? |
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18:32
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JW_work |
what do you mean by "other giant hosts"? |
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18:32
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Frogging |
other hosts that are high capacity like IA, I assume |
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18:33
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JW_work |
There aren't any with similar political purposes, AFAIK. Others with similar capacity include Google, Microsoft, Amazon and the NSA. :-) |
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18:34
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JW_work |
others with similar aims include various national libraries |
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18:35
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Frogging |
google, microsoft, and amazon don't host shit for us :p |
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18:35
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JW_work |
I bet they do, we just may not know it. |
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18:35
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JW_work |
I really really doubt if google doesn't have an impressive fraction of IA's collections quietly sitting on their servers somewhere. |
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18:35
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JW_work |
It's not like they don't have the space. |
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18:45
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blahah |
there are places like CERN that have vast capacity too - they have zenodo for scientific data |
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18:46
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blahah |
yeah I did mean places with high capacity, and I was thinking specifically of places that welcome deposits |
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18:46
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JW_work |
good point |
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18:53
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blahah |
ok so the hypothetical scenario I put to you all is this... |
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18:53
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blahah |
scihub has copied about 50million papers that were previously locked behind a paywall |
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18:53
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blahah |
it's in the region of 50TB of data |
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18:54
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blahah |
if scihub were to be raided or otherwise dismantled in the future, what strategies could they hypothetically use to prevent the loss of all the data |
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18:54
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blahah |
ideas so far include to hide all the pdfs inside images using steganography, and archive them on flickr and other photo stores |
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18:55
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blahah |
or to disguise them as scientific datasets and archive them on scientific data archives |
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18:55
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PurpleSym |
IPFS? |
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18:55
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blahah |
to spread them out in tiny archives to lots of free http static hosts around the world |
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18:55
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JW_work |
both of those seem sensible to me |
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18:55
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blahah |
IPFS is also on the table, but it requires people willing to join the swarm |
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18:56
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PurpleSym |
That’s always the problem with distributed solutions. |
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19:00
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blahah |
any other crazy ideas? |
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19:00
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blahah |
or not crazy |
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19:01
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Frogging |
this seems relevant (though perhaps not useful) http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Valhalla |
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19:02
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Frogging |
it's the same question; "where can we put big things, other than the Archive" |
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19:02
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PurpleSym |
Universities tend to have lots of storage as well. Might be worth asking them to – silently – host the data. |
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19:06
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JW_work |
50TB, at US$100 / TB is $5,000. |
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19:07
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JW_work |
which isn't cheap, but isn't completely unreasonable either |
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19:09
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JW_work |
what does Amazon Glacier charge? |
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19:11
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JW_work |
The basic issue is maintaining the doublethink of "there's this data — I don't know what it is, I can't access it, I certainly don't have any reason to think it is illegal — but if someone happens to want it, sometime in the future, I will keep it for them" |
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19:12
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xmc |
glacier for 50T is USD$350/month => USD$4,200/yr |
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19:13
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midas |
glacier is expensive for downloading data |
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19:14
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PurpleSym |
And 4300$ for retrieval bandwidth. |
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19:17
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MrRadar |
Backblaze B2 is even cheaper than Amazon Glacier at $0.005/GB/month |
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19:21
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midas |
1PB would cost just 60k/year, if we just stuff it full :p |
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19:21
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PurpleSym |
Dedicated box at OVH: 0.008€/GB/month. (12x4TB/Softraid) |
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19:22
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Frogging |
is that supposed to be euros? |
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19:22
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Frogging |
or did you mean dollars |
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19:23
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PurpleSym |
Yes, Euro. |
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19:23
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Frogging |
that'd be $5376.72 USD per year for 50T |
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19:24
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Frogging |
(for comparison's sake) |
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19:24
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PurpleSym |
And dedicated box at Hetzner: 0.003€/GB/month. (15x6TB) |
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19:25
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PurpleSym |
(includes 100TB bandwidth) |
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19:26
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PurpleSym |
~$2000 USD/year for 50T. |
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19:26
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Frogging |
that's not terrible |
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19:27
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PurpleSym |
Note that you can’t get “just” 50T though. It’s all or nothing. |
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19:28
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luckcolor |
how about you upload the encrypted archives on archive.org |
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19:28
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luckcolor |
and then when the site closes you can release the decryption key |
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19:28
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HCross |
#archiveteam-bs |
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19:29
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luckcolor |
agree |
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19:29
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HCross |
WOOP WOOP Off topic |
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19:29
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Frogging |
ok |
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19:31
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luckcolor |
The offtopic alarm has been triggered |
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19:31
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luckcolor |
:P |
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19:33
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Frogging |
blahah: join #archiveteam-bs |
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19:46
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blahah |
sorry was putting kid to bed. I was trying to calculate S3 costs earlier - seemed silly |
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19:46
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blahah |
JW_work: the doublethink is spot one |
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19:46
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blahah |
*on |
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19:46
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luckcolor |
no s3 it's probably not worth it |
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19:46
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blahah |
there are two basic scenarios: someone knowingly hosts the data, or someone hosts it while being ignorant of the contents |
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19:47
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* |
Frogging points at #archiveteam-bs |
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19:47
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blahah |
luckcolor: yeah I realised that eventually |
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19:47
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blahah |
luckcolor: I was thinking along similar lines for encrypted stuff |
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19:47
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JW_work |
blahah: please join #archiveteam-bs and discuss it there, not here |
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19:47
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blahah |
also works with any place that will archive data |
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19:47
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blahah |
ok sorry |
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22:09
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22:09
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incog |
anybody got a scrape of kuro5hin? |
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22:09
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incog |
im coming up blank with the usual searches |
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22:10
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22:12
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incog |
no wayback no cache |
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22:13
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incog |
im looking for the ogg frog zines and a specific article on xanga being a ghetto botnet due to an exploited vuln |
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22:13
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incog |
these were the only places as far as i know they were |
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22:16
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incog |
used to be at http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2004/12/28/161214/43 |
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22:40
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incog |
http://k5.semantic-db.org/diary-slurp/161942--archive-diaries--html-diaries--nested-format.zip |
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22:40
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incog |
found smth |
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22:41
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JW_work |
yeah, I remembered there was something, but couldn't remember the details |
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22:56
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incog |
http://archive.is/mtpf oh here it is |
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23:06
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incog |
still no ogg frog, oh well |
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23:08
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23:11
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incog |
http://atdt.freeshell.org/k5/ |
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23:23
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