[00:10] Senji: enterprise grade backups are entirely different price range, yea [00:10] the 100PB number is a bit arbitrary, as it assumes a lot of redundancy the system being super unreliable by itself [00:11] Senji: if we just assume 100% reliability its still something to the tune of 20pb. IA estimate is $2M/PB/eternity. [00:12] so we're talking about 40M $ in terms of raw market cost for iabak [00:14] I think our figures work out closer to $1M/PB/etermity; but.... [00:14] the eternity thing is the keyword here, as it assumes constant rotation of failing media [00:15] tapes dont last that long. [00:15] eternity figures simply assume cost of storage gets cheaper over time (15%, at ever slightly decaying rate matching current sigmoid trend) [00:15] We still achieve 90% recovery from tapes written in the 1960s and not stored by idiots :-D [00:16] (Data recovery and transcription is our _main_ business, archiving is a more recent secondary thing) [00:16] but yea, i can see how tapes could definitely have an edge [00:16] then again, thats modern super-dense tapes [00:16] which kinda push the limitis same way hard drives do [00:16] floppies from the 60s can be read by hand and magnetic probe [00:17] Our $25/TB figure is based on last generation tapes and updating them every two generations [00:18] We have some hand-built hardware for reading 5-track VAX tapes that has to be lovingly operated every few years when one of our customers finds a box at the back of warehouse somewhere :-D [00:18] Senji: $25/TB is not bad at all [00:18] thats definitely very competetive compared to jurry rigged consumer hw [00:19] i mean $10/TB is roughly the price you get a used 1/2TB drives for [00:19] and thats used drives, which definitely have far more reliability issues compared to tape [00:20] I think thats cheaper than I can get them here in the UK :-D [00:21] Senji: so youre saying the tapes are fairly cheap on their own [00:21] one needs just super expensive gear to read/write those? [00:22] And you either need really expensive robots or lots of man hours [00:22] Both of our robots are second hand and still cost six figures of dollars [00:22] theres no need for real librarian robot [00:22] just one which takes pile of tapes, take one, put in recorder, pull it, throw on another pile [00:23] no need for random access as usual tapebots do [00:23] We don't keep most of our tapes in the robots; but it saves a lot of time being able to shove them in once a week rather than every few hours [00:24] We have little baby 10-18 tape robots for transcription work; but that's often like 50GB/tape so even so an operator has to change the robot every few hours [00:24] yea [00:24] i can see viability only if the tape is 1TB+ [00:24] preferably to the tune of 10TB [00:24] 50GB is laughable, its cheaper to go optical unless that tape costs few cents each [00:24] We're using 1TB tapes for our cheaper clients and 4TB tapes for our prestige client :-D [00:25] and that 1TB costs $25? [00:25] i can p much imagine that in raw manufacturing cost, but tape vendors tend to charge insane markups [00:25] the market being overspecialized and all [00:26] I don't know if the $25 figure is for the 1TB or 4TB tapes (plus operator time to write them) [00:26] I just happened to be in a conversation with my boss the other day where he was saying one of our competitors on a bid was taking the piss asking for $100 ! [00:26] the jukebox bot can be rigged for fairly cheap [00:27] its really just two piles, or even human could do it if the tapes are 1TB+ [00:27] its just 20000 tapes [00:28] Senji: yea, i've been far from ent ops for few years now [00:28] but back then, those tapes costed arms and leg [00:28] and those were like 100-400GB [00:28] Oh eek, it's half past midnight, I should be asleep :-D [00:48] Interesting conversation, thanks! [05:18] *** Mateon1 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [05:18] *** Mateon1 has joined #internetarchive.bak [10:10] *** db48x has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out) [10:18] *** db48x has joined #internetarchive.bak [11:13] *** db48x has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) [22:00] *** sep332 has joined #internetarchive.bak [22:06] *** sep332 has quit IRC (Read error: Operation timed out)