#archiveteam-bs 2017-10-06,Fri

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WhoWhatWhen
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godanei'm now maybe on my 23rd tape [00:26]
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godanei'm on my 24th tape now [01:35]
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godanei'm capturing a 1989 30 minute screensaver
its called Illumination and its a visual music video
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godaneanother tape i have is also upload here: https://diva.sfsu.edu/collections/sfbatv/bundles/189054
my tape is longer then that and is the commercial tape
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godaneso found a odd tape
i thought i may have hawaii beneath the surface but its music guys audition tapes or something
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godaneso i think nasa at work is really a moonwalk one movie but in the classroom series [08:05]
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jspiroswah, AIM is being shut down at the end of the year [15:46]
joepie91hey look: https://twitter.com/ABenMcCloskey/status/916314913630445569
somebody got arrested for using a VPN that "doesn't log"
or well, not 'for' exactly, but rather that's how they found him...
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dd0a13f37joepie91: So did it keep logs? [16:16]
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dd0a13f37Fuck, I just realized something
oops wrong channel
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joepie91dd0a13f37: yep! :) [17:49]
dd0a13f37Where is the evidence of this?
It looks incredibly vague to me, is there more context in the pdf?
[17:49]
joepie91dd0a13f37: it's right there in the screenshot of the PDF [17:58]
dd0a13f37No, "determine that their service was accessed" is way too vague [17:59]
joepie91dd0a13f37: and how would they determine that without logs, exactly? [18:00]
dd0a13f37They could keep logs on the web frontend (e.g. billing) without logging it on the VPN service [18:01]
joepie91which is better how exactly?
this is arguing on irrelevant technicalities
[18:01]
dd0a13f37Completely different things
Keeping UID <-> real IP mappings, I don't care about
UID <-> VPN IP is the bad logging
[18:02]
joepie91dd0a13f37: I'm getting the distinct impression that you don't *want* to understand the point here, so that you can continue pretending that VPNs that claim "no logs" are secure.
dd0a13f37: read the actual damn screenshot, and the PDF that's associated with it.
how do they get from "
how do they get from "oh this guy is using a VPN" to "oh this is his own IP" without a real IP <--- .... ---> VPN IP mappinmg?
they don't, therefore there is such a mapping
how do you obtain such a mapping?
through logs
this is not rocket science
[18:03]
dd0a13f37I'm reading the pdf right now, yes, but judging from the screenshot it could just have been using VPN IP for personal gmail [18:04]
joepie91.... [18:04]
dd0a13f37Yes, the screenshot doesn't make it clear [18:05]
joepie91okay, I give up [18:06]
Froggingjoepie91: I'm "not authorized to view these tweets" apparently [18:06]
dd0a13f37Look at page 18, will you? [18:06]
Froggingoh now it's working
that was odd
[18:07]
dd0a13f37Lin criticized the tweet, saying "There is no such thing as a VPN that doesn't keep logs. If they can limit your connections or track bandwidth usage, they keeps logs." [18:07]
Froggingdd0a13f37: the excerpt doesn't say they got his UID, it says they were able to determine that it was the same UID that accessed his personal email [18:10]
dd0a13f37Ah yes I see, I got to it now
It still doesn't make sense though
Look at p24-25, it they'd have logs that section wouldn't be there
[18:11]
Froggingwhich section number ml
-ml
It really does sound like they keep logs, at least enough logs to link together different actions by the same customer
[18:13]
dd0a13f37It does, but it's still unclear [18:15]
Froggingwhatever opsec they claim to be doing in order to not have records, they are not in fact doing since they have records [18:15]
dd0a13f37Section 45-55
45-46*
[18:15]
Froggingokay that's on page 20 [18:16]
dd0a13f37But that could be the customer records since they already had his identity at that point
page 24 pdf 23 paper
"Use of Overlapping Service Providers" - if they kept logs they'd have more definitive evidence.
His opsec was quite shit, so it really seems like another case of "user hiding behind tor unmasked"
[18:16]
Froggingregardless, it clearly says that PureVPN records were used in the evidence. In section 52 which was screencapped in the tweet [18:20]
dd0a13f37Yes, but not which ones. Keeping it from the billing records is fine, that's not malicious nor very dangerous.
We can safely rule out real IP <-> VPN IP, so either that or they're deliberately being misleading for some reason
[the police]
"Our servers automatically record the time at which you connect to any of our servers. From here on forward, we do not keep any records of anything that could associate any specific activity to a specific user."
https://www.purevpn.com/privacy-policy.php
[18:21]
Frogging"PureVPN was able to determine that their service was accessed by the same customer from two originating IP addresses" and they go on to specify what addresses those were [18:25]
dd0a13f37Yes, this is congruent with their privacy policy. [18:25]
Froggingso they keep records of what IP addresses their server was accessed from and can link them with specific customers [18:25]
dd0a13f37Yes, that's true. That doesn't mean they log the outbound IPs used, which is the sensitive information [18:26]
FroggingI expect a company that builds their marketing on "we don't keep logs" to not keep logs of my IP address
on either side of the VPN
it's misleading at best
[18:26]
dd0a13f37They do seem shady, but there's nothing in there that goes against their privacy policy. Good VPNs don't have this problem, that's true. [18:27]
Froggingit may not technically violate their privacy policy but the claims of not keeping records are still misleading
which if anything is at least a lesson to read the fine print
[18:28]
dd0a13f37Sure. But if his opsec wouldn't have been bad otherwise, the VPN alone wouldn't have exposed him. [18:29]
Froggingnot that you can necessarily trust the privacy policy anyway [18:29]
dd0a13f37They don't seem to have a proper one actually
(a legal one)
[18:30]
Compare this to https://www.mullvad.net/blog/2017/1/13/clarifying-our-no-logging-policy/ [18:35]
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godaneso there is tape called 'looking for trouble'
it is a short film with no audio
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odemgand? [20:52]
godanei'm doing The Who 1981-03-28 tape
it was when there in germany
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godaneso you may get some more germany news at the end of that concert tape [21:05]
odemgsound :D [21:07]
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godanethe concert tape has sound
it was just the 'Looking for Trouble' tape that had no sound
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Stilett0-seeing the AIM coverage reminded me [21:25]
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StilettoI used to use Prodigy rather than Compuserve or AOL. One thing they came up with towards the end was a "offline bulletin board browser" which archived messages to your HDD.
it's very unlikely people still have the files they archived with this. But I just found a few.
Of course, I wasn't the completionist I am now, and mostly just archived messages and boards that interested me
who knows, maybe someone could set up a message to appeal to anyone who still had these archives and see if anyone showed up with them
similarly to Google's appeal for published USENET archive disks back in the day
I doubt AOL or Compuserve made similar utilities but you never know
I don't really know what research has been done in this space so far
anyhow, I believe the tool was called "Bulletin Board Manager" and anyone with it still intact should have a cache of messages on their hard drive
it's a shame there aren't more archives of those days
or maybe it was called "Bulletin Board Note Manager"
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dashcloudStiletto: Someone worked on a tool to extract stuff from offline Prodigy folders- I think I heard about it from Benj Edwards [22:11]
JAAAnyone interested in archiving blogs hosted at wordpress.com? I believe I just found a method for discovering all or at least very many of those (including ones hosted on their own domain). [22:24]
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Stilettodashcloud - from Benj? great, thanks [23:58]
godaneso i had to german attack warsaw tapes [23:58]
StilettoI probably still have the Prodigy Bulletin Board Note Manager utility extracted to a folder, need to dig on an old HDD to see
thanks for letting me know dashcloud
[23:58]
godaneone without tape code and one with tape code in video [23:59]

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